Hells Bells

Hells Bells
Location
Heart of the Heart of the Country
Birthday
February 01
Bio
Book editor, parent, MFA in poetry from a land far, far, away--and a long, long time ago . . . I'm not a psychologist, but I play one on TV.

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DECEMBER 29, 2009 10:01PM

But Isn't It All Just Subjective Anyway?

Rate: 43 Flag

 art_sculpt_drumdancer

In a past life, I taught writing at a state university with an open enrollment policy. Part of the gig was evaluating the work, whether it was a basic, plodding five-paragraph essay, a short story, or  a poem. Invariably, at some point, someone would ask: 

"BUT ISN'T IT ALL JUST SUBJECTIVE ANYWAY?"

I can see their tender faces now, waiting for my answer . . . waiting for me to assure them that I would love everyone unconditionally, that I would embrace their every expression equally and with total acceptance.

My first year teaching, the question threw me, but after that, I'd tell this story:

Apparently, the Inuit people do not have standards for artistic achievement as we know it. So if you ask an Inuit, "Can you dance?" he will dance. If you ask an Inuit, "Can you sing?" she will sing. An Inuit will dance, and sing, and carve, and drum--all as a seamless part of life. There is no art separate from life. Life is art. And vice versa.

I would let the class dwell for a sacred, holy moment in pristine seamlessness, in total, unconditional acceptance.

And then I'd let them have it:

But even among the Inuit, probably, out behind the igloo, some people would probably huddle together and say amongst themselves, "You know, that Nanook cannot sing AT ALL."

I welcomed the confusion and grumbling, because once that question had been asked, I knew my job as a teacher could really begin. I had my work cut out for me--I had to show them how to tell the difference between shit and shinola, between their ass and a hole in the ground. I had to try to prove something no one really wanted to hear:

Some things are just plain better than other things. 

I didn't feel that bad, though. I was young myself then, but not so young that I hadn't figured out that one of the few consolations of leaving childhood behind is being able to choose for yourself and know why: good/bad, right/wrong, yes/no.

Image: Firstpeoplesofcanada.com

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In good conscience, I have to say that I flagrantly stole the Inuit story from my friend, sixtycandles, a writer and writing teacher who recently joined OS:

http://open.salon.com/blog/sixtycandles/2009/12/27/introducing_the_year_of_turning_sixty
I love this. I will probably steal this story when my kids need to hear it too. I just can't think of a better way to illustrate this point.
"Yesterday is ashes; tomorrow wood. Only today does the fire burn brightly."
~Inuit Proverb
I love this proverb: a writing professor quoted it often when I complained about a grade. I think I've learned....
I would like to add that if I would have been in the group behind the igloo, I would have told them all to Knock it off! You aren't gonna gossip around me about someone I like. I would not have reinforced the negative chatter. Smiling at someone and then joining in to rip them is immaturity at its worst. It also mean.
Dr. Spud: I couldn't agree with you more.
I guess I am dense. I had no idea what the EP was when I started or how posts ended up there. I never really gave it a thought because I write as a rank amateur with no goals beyond having fun and knowing I am entertaining a few people and sometimes even educating them. Of course it feels good to know people read my stuff. It feels good to get good feedback but, I would love some good constructive criticism to help me improve my writing. I am a novice and criticism (complete with advice) is always welcome if my goal is to learn how to write! As a professional, I wrote perfect 'educationalese' in a coherent, acceptable code word parlance but creative writing? Its a whole new thing for me. Every piece of criticism good and bad is the only way to improve.
I like this a lot. Very well told and to the point!
I'm well aware that my computer has this attachment -- it's called a mouse -- and I can click on it to either open a page or click it again to move on.

p.s. Thanks for the introduction to sixtycandles.
Oh dear. Yes, I used to tell that Inuit story to students. And it really used to piss them off. These days I'm happy to keep my opinions (mostly) to myself, and let people find their delight where they may.
I always get "But it's just your opinion!" from students. I always tell them "Yes, but it's an opinion informed by two degrees in English and 19 years of teaching experience". Thanks for your post - it's not just me!
Subjective, yes, but when based on knowledge and experience, shit and shinola do indeed stand out.
quality exists. tell your kids-- the good news is, you can learn it. the bad news is, it requires discipline. the good news is, its worth it.
Oh, I know. The desire to be unconditionally loved as a writer, the curse of being a writing teacher who doesn't love everything. But it is so great when students learn it's OK to rewrite and tear their stuff apart and that being judged has its silver linings.
Agreed. Some things are diamond, some things are stone. Like rainee, I'm just thrilled when someone actually read any thing I wrote and was entertained by it.
Great story -- but there's something worse than reading bad writing -- I use to have to critique demo tapes from would-be songwriters. Don't know how I survived that for five years.

I once dated a wonderful girl who loved to sing -- but couldn't carry a tune to save her soul. Needless to say, someone with my ears could not imagine spending the rest of his life being so tortured.

Then there's the tale of the musician who ends up in Heaven and is asked to join the house band-- it's fiction, okay? -- only to discover God has a girlfriend, and she thinks she can sing.
I think it's the inability to ponder and then 'tear things up' that gets some folks into a 'burning bright" situation here. Just slap that key, and it's *gone* into the ether that is OS. One must be careful around flammable gas. Click-click.
This is most excellent, Hells Bells. And you're one of my favorite voices here at OS. Plain and simple, quality speaks to me.
Telling it like it is seems to be a winning formula to me...and you do it well. Thank you!
Well said. Teaching writing is not an easy gig, then again, it is easier than writing. Love the Inuit story.
I've written and erased six comments. Just: thanks.
I agree that even in a society (if there is such a society) where one would try to not place obvious contests over artistic achievements, people are still going to comment, sometimes with spite, sometimes as simply stating a preference, about what they liked. And if the Inuit were trying to run a website that depending on traffic for ads and google hits and such, that would inform their tastes as well, forcing them to base their awards not just on what they liked, but on what they liked that increased traffic for ads and google hits and such.
Primitive people dance, etc. communally and un-selfconsciously, but there is emulation involved. The best male courtship dancer gets the female he wants, and a Chieftain's Pick! in nightly oral culture.

r
Loved this. Love you.
Wonderful story which I plan on stealing as well someday. :)
When I lived in NY, I used to listen to WXRK all the time. One of their draws (both listeners and complainers) was (of course) Howard Stern. Now, Howard could be funny as hell but he could also be irritating. When his humor became too sophomoric for my tastes, I did the sensible thing: I changed the friggin' station to something I liked better.
That's how I approach everything here. If I see something I personally don't like, I simply stop reading it. If it seems to be a constant staple from a particular person, I don't read that person's stuff any more.

Easy peasy.

You were the kind of teacher I would have liked.

Rated.
fab fab fab fab
see my most recent post on "content"
great post.
Thanks for being the voice of reason in a season of treason and maleficence.

BTW, Nanook could not sing, but he really knew how to cut the rug down at a place called the Jug with a girl named Linda-Lou.

Rated
A beautiful story, and a poignant way to make the point that some things are just plain better than other thing...

I don't see it as very relevent to OS, though, because a lot of "just plain better" pieces never see the EP they should. Too much content, not enough time for the editors to read it all, so they tend to focus on a select number of people that do a mostly great job of garnering eyeballs. C'est la vie. rated.
You're probably right, Ranting . . . it relates only peripherally. I was dying for an opportunity to tell the story, though. HB
Well... I've been on this site for only a couple of weeks and it's very clear to me that the editor selects fun and/or currently topical posts for the cover. They are not picked for good writing, or for originality—many are just news stories aggregated from other sites.

And then there are the cliques here at OS. I'm already getting turned off because of them, but when I think about it, what did I think would happen on a "social network" site that isn't really a "social network site?

It's the cliques that are making the rumpus. They are the ones dumbing-down the quality of writing. I feel sorry for any Editor that would hazard the job; you're damned if you ignore the cliques, and you're damned if you don't.
What people make of your work is one thing. What the artist makes of it is more important. Do you, the artist, care enough about this piece to look it over carefully, and perhaps admit that this part of it doesn't seem to work, and perhaps requires more work, or do you, the artist, toss it out there slapdash, and insist your reader dig out what you meant to say from what you did say? A friend took a stab at stand-up comedy. He sucked and inevitably blamed the audience for not getting the joke. Had he taken responsibility for this, reworked his routine, made some things more clear, cut others, he might have been successful. An undeserved sense of entitlement kept him from learning and growing.
Some things are just better than others; without established authority to help guide us how shall we find our way?

Even as the unwashed masses thought to give his 15 minutes to the next big thing, Joseph Haydn understood that not only was young Ludwig not the most promising young composer in Vienna; he wasn't even the most promising among Haydn's students. Although certain of Ludwig's youthful compositions were not without their charms his later works were found to be unintelligible and without merit.

This is, of course, the exception that proves the rule: much as finding water on Mars proves that there is in fact no water to be found on Mars.
Wow. I missed serious stuff while off working, doing Christmas, and going to Ireland. Kinda glad I did. It was my assumption when one joined a writing group that honest critiques were appreciated. I have no idea who was involved but sorry it bothered you.
Very good story. So, how does this relate to the OS dustup?

Kidding!
LOL - when my kid came up with the "isn't it all just subjective?" question, I responded that yes, it is. Unfortunately, whomever has the gradebook, or the power, makes the hoops through which we jump - consider it like a law of physics. One doesn't have to like it . . . it just is.
Hell's Bells, I love this post and Chuck's additional proverb. I can't keep up with all there is to learn, but I try like hell.That's why I read your posts as often as possible.
Rated
I always tell them that it's about craft and good craft is about practice and is unmistakeable. Like and dislike are subjective.
So much for subjectivity. But college freshmen are college freshmen.
Love the statuette illustration. And yes, I can just see them all huddled up. It's the polite thing to do, not rip 'em to pieces in front of them or boo them out of the hut.
I just found this post, and bravo to you. The concepts of quality and merit are now thought of as "elitist" and are slowly being squashed to protect phony self-esteem. Thank you for presenting this so clearly. I'd rather be thought a lousy writer than pretend that all writing is subjectively "good."