Kabul, 1 December 2008, 1500 

So it's fairly common to hear people around me whining about how President Elect Obama is going to make America socialist and communist by giving out handouts and such. 

I decided to question some folks and figure out why they believe that and if they actually know the meaning of the terms.  (What, everyone is mean sometimes and I quite enjoy when it's my turn)

Their argument was based PURELY on talking point rhetoric, which I learned during the course of the discussion, but I still (for now) felt the need to try to push them out of their little boxes.  I tested this on 7 people...and 6 for 7 the conversation went like this.  The seventh person saw the inherent traps in the conversation and refused to answer LOL.

So,  someone makes that aforementioned (I want to call it idiotic but I shouldn't) statement about President Elect Obama and gives me an opening to begin.  

I make the obvious statements asking what they call the recent bailouts that occurred because of deregulation madness (anything but socialism apparently) or how the biggest transfer of money to ever occur in our economy has been the upward transition of it over the last eight years (Hello Bush Tax Cuts among other things).  I ask, "Isn't this an indictment of the "free-market economy."  (Apparently not)

After they bluster for a bit I ask what would be the best method...I think it goes without saying (but I'll say anyway) that they say, "Of course it's capitalism without regulation...the old school laissez faire method (not that they use those terms).

So I get a perplexed look on my face and ask, "Why?" 

They respond they KNOW  capitalism is the best (note the deliberate emphasis).  Which leads me to posit this question, "Have you done any research to back up this speculation?"  The answer (more often than not) is a big resounding "Yes."

So I ask a simple question. Have you read "The Wealth of Nations" or a similar such work? The answer is, of course, no.

I ask, "Have you read anything by Adam Smith?" The answer is no.   (In my mind I'm thinking do you even know what or who I'm talking about but that is a little to mean to say out loud.  I knew the answer was no because the first one was no but I have to be sure.)

Now, I'm not going to claim to know what you're thinking...BUT if I was reading this blog I might say, just to be contrary, that such texts aren't necessary for an understanding of macroeconomics or the theory behind it AND Siobhan you're being a bit of a prat. Well, you may very well be right (because I can be one), but if you're purporting to have researched Capitalism and KNOW it be the best system in my view then should have a read at least a SparkNotes version of it (do they have one?) and since I'm asking the questions...well it is from my view.

I let that topic go (so I can return to it later...they expect me to go in for the kill because they know No is the wrong answer but I let them stew because I AM bad tempered on occasion) and ask another question.

Why is [the theory of] socialism bad?

A caveat, since all Americans REALLY associate socialism (economic system) with communism (political system) I just went with that general question KNOWING someone will bring up the Soviet Union. I'll squash that question when it comes up.

Well anyone they respond that they KNOW socialism is bad since it just give handouts to people who don't work.

At this point I'm annoyed since I already explained the handout scenario happening right now and over the last eight years. So I pose the question, "Have you read anything by Frederich Engels?" The answer is no. I than get naughty and ask, "Have you read anything about socialism or communism?" The answer is YES, the Communist Manifesto.

You know where I'm going with this right? 

I can tell they are happy because they finally said yes to something so I pause before saying..."You read the Communist Manifesto...really." Yes, they say again. I respond, "I thought you said you hadn't read anything by Frederich Engels...he wrote the theories of the Manifesto with Karl Marx."

SILENCE.

I pause and savor the kill.

I begin...

"So, you a proponent of regulation free capitalism because you have researched it and know it's the best BUT you have never read "The Wealth of Nations" by Adam Smith whom all these ideas are derived from...in America and you've never read The Communist Manifesto and yet you insist socialism is evil."

Okay....I pause to breathe.  On one hand I know if I get up on my soapbox that I'll immediately lose them and everything will go in one ear and out the other.  On the other hand I want them to think so I can't be too concilliatory.  Finally on the third hand, which I do not have so I borrow someone else's,  I REALLY derive some wrong sick pleasure from bursting these blowhards' bubbles...even knowing I'm going to be highly annoyed by the end of the conversation by my inability to reach them.  

I ask, "Well could you explain to me what you base these ideas on and I'll counter them, if I'm able, with my own?"

So what do they say...you know the answer...starts with a F and ends with a AUX NEWS....oh sorry I meant OX NEWS. 

Now, at this point I stop and consider if I really want to do this.  I have been beating my head against the wall of Fox News for awhile now and I know that it take ALOT of effort to make that first crack in the wall.  Of course I'm stubborn and obstinate and the end result of my internal monologue is off I go to beat my head against the wall again.

So, we discuss.  We debate.  At some points we argue.  I don't claim to be an economics genius or some such but I like to read and have researched a bit of the current crisis.  Everything is going okay.  I'm pointing out counter-point research and directing them to links and just slowly crushing the bubble when EACH AND EVERYONE OF THEM says some variation of this, "Well, all those mortgages the government made banks make to poor people caused this crisis."

I hate that comment.  I'm sure all the members of OS are up on the it's CRA's and poor people's fault argument and know the faults in it so you can imagine how this infuriates me. 

I can't hold it in.  I make a quip...knowing the quip will likely make the other person close up and not listen anymore.  I say, "I highly doubt that government forced banks to make loans or an organization that has been around for 30 years is entirely responsible for the crisis caused in the last 6-8 years."

It's all downhill from there. Nevermind they have NO IDEA what CRA is or stands for they are going to argue me down that it is poor people's fault entirely including welfare programs. 

Did I mention I'm military and a large number of the military families I know use "welfare" programs like WIC and EBT cards?  The people I'm talking to are military too and obviously haven't put two and two together.  Many military families often fall under the "poverty line"...but that's an entirely different topic.  So I get annoyed...and when I get annoyed I get VERY sarcastic.  The quips just pour out.  My inner voice, the one whose comments have been in parentheses and written as caveats this entire blog, becomes my outer voice and it gets ugly.  

The end result of the "discussion" is I get this stoic look on my face and essentially say, "There is no point talking to you when you are behaving like this," and walk away.  Since MOST of these people are at least 10 years older than me, if not more, and outrank me it makes them even more upset but at that point I don't care.  In fact I think I walk away because it makes them more upset that I'm being the  mature one...and get the last word LOL.    

You know chronicling my dismal discussions was supposed to make me feel better about them...it has not.    I will never understand how people can support actions that not only undermine them and their economic interests but the country as a whole for the few it will benefit. 

I have totally lost my steam on this post...and my conclusion now seems a bit petty LOL. 

That's it I'm going to go write a blog on Kanye West's new album (which I adore for all it's raw feeling and moroseness) to make myself feel better...which, considering the albums content, is a bit odd.

[This blog was first written around November 17th.  Unfortunately due to the internet hiccups here when I hit publish...it vanished and no amount of hitting back or refresh would bring it back.  Imagine my joy today in finding a part of in my Outlook drafts (it began life as an email).  So, I decided update and publish it.  Let's see how this version ends shall we.  BTW please ignore the jumping in tenses.]