Hugo Schwyzer

Hugo Schwyzer
Location
Pasadena, California, USA
Birthday
May 22
Title
Faculty
Company
Pasadena City College
Bio
Hugo teaches history and gender studies at Pasadena City College. His interests include men's work, youth ministry, feminism, marathoning and vegan cooking. He and his wife are active in the animal rights community, and help run an international chinchilla rescue. He blogs at hugoschwyzer.net

Hugo Schwyzer's Links

Salon.com
Editor’s Pick
OCTOBER 9, 2008 3:47PM

Bridging the Porn Divide: sex, feminism, and dialogue

Rate: 15 Flag

If you ask most folks who have been blogging for a while, they'll remember the one "break-out" post that got them noticed, or first attracted a significant number of comments and hits. For me, it was this post about pornography back in April 2004. I wrote in response to news that several major stars of the adult film industry were infected with HIV.

I wrote that post, and many subsequent posts on pornography from two over-lapping perspectives. I wrote as a pro-feminist steeped in the anti-pornography tradition of one branch of feminism; I wrote as someone who was moved by the desperately sad story of Linda Lovelace, moved by the razor-sharp incisiveness of Andrea Dworkin, challenged by the dazzling legal theory of Catherine MacKinnon. But my intellectual response to porn was mixed with my own experience of "addiction" to pornography, and a long struggle to overcome the compulsive use of sexually explicit material. Porn addiction, particularly in my youth (long before cyber-erotica became available) had done tremendous harm to me -- and as a consequence, it had damaging repercussions in many of my relationships.

So my feminism, my faith, and my own intense desire never ever to go back into that addiction combined to form a very strong anti-pornography stance.It has been a long time since I've "used" pornography of any kind. But that doesn't mean I'm blind to the possibility of relapse. Heterosexual married men in my position -- teachers, pastors, mentors -- are famous for living sexual double lives. (The examples, sadly, are too many to list.) While some fall from grace in spectacular ways --Ted Haggard -- others commit "adultery" only with their computers. I know my own tendency towards workaholism and Calvinist striving; I know that that Puritanical streak can, left unchecked, feed a dark side.

It's so easy, after all, to feel heroic doing what I do: mentoring, teaching, volunteering, advising, chairing committees and giving lectures. It's easy, too, to buy into the lie that I've "been so good" and I "deserve" a little "me time." For a lot of men, including myself for many years, that "me time" involved the compulsive consumption of pornography.I learned early that a fulfilling sex life with a partner or a spouse is not a prophylaxis against porn addiction. I'm very clear these days that it isn't my wife's job to keep me sufficiently sexually sated that I don't stray, even in my mind. It's my job. And staying faithful in body and mind involves many things, of which willpower is actually the least important. Staying faithful to my commitments is made much easier by honoring the needs of my body as they arise. I was much more prone to use porn when I was hungry, angry, lonely, or tired; I have become much better (thank God) at recognizing my triggers. I listen to the needs of my body, and I don't suppress them. That doesn't mean I indulge every imperious demand! It means I do take the naps I need; it means I do get the (very non-sexual) professional massages that release the tension and the ache in my flesh. It's when I bottle everything up, I know, that I am at risk of "acting out."

But writing about pornography from the perspective of a recovering addict is problematic. Most saliently, it leads me -- as it obviously did in that 2004 post -- to be dismissive of those whose experience with pornography was radically different from my own. I'm not talking about the Larry Flynts of the world, mind you; I have little time for them. I'm talking about feminist voices, in the blogosphere and elsewhere, voices of women who work or have worked in the sex industry. Like so many folks, I've been more willing to hear the stories that match up with my pre-existing world view. I confess I've given more credence to those who spoke of the sex industry in negative terms (exploitation and abuse and addiction) than to those who talked about genuinely enjoying the work they were doing. What I am most guilty of is pathologizing those whose experiences do not match my world view.

I am not alone in this; many of my fellow anti-porn feminists do the same. We of all people, who ought to know better, still regularly suggest that women who work in the sex industry (or merely those who enjoy watching porn) are -- take your pick -- "deceiving themselves", "working through childhood abuse issues", "filled with a self-loathing they cannot acknowledge." Sometimes, we infantilize female sex workers, suggesting that they are in desperate need of "rescue" by we the enlightened, the middle-class, and the sexually vanilla.

One of the many changes I've been going through this year is a re-evaluation of my position on pornography and sex work. Several incidents occasioned this. First off, I was deeply stirred up (in the best way) by a panel session I went to at the Women, Action, and Media conference in Cambridge, MA, in March. Led by Audacia Ray, the panel explored the various ways in which even the feminist-sympathetic media often misrepresents the voices of sex workers. It was a challenging presentation, but it got me thinking about my own preconceptions. I started reading Audacia's blog, as well as those of Amber Rhea, and Renegade Evolution. I've met Amber and Audacia, and have long admired Ren's writing -- but after the WAM conference, really made an effort to set aside my knee-jerk anti-porn stance as I read their work.

I also got some critical feedback from a few (well, two) students in my women's studies course. These were excellent and involved students, committed young feminists, and I'm happy to say that they were both effusive about how much they had enjoyed most of the course. But each of them came to me, separately, after last semester was over to take issue with just one segment of the class: my section on pornography. One of them wrote in her journal something to the effect that "the only time you seem to get preachy and dogmatic is when porn comes up. On that issue, you just don't seem to present other points of view." Another, who told me she had worked in the industry herself, said she felt "silenced" by the way the rest of the class happily went along with what she saw as an unfair anti-porn slant. I've gotten that complaint before, honestly. And in the past, I'd been almost as dismissive of the "pro-porn" feminist view as I tended to be towards the ultra-conservative "a woman's place is in the home" crowd. Heck, because of my background with evangelicals, I was probably better about hearing and validating the views of social conservatives than I was about really giving credence to the voices of women who worked in the sex industry, or who simply -- on their own -- delighted in using pornography.

Finally, this year, I've been able to hear these criticisms without being reactive or defensive. A lot of this is due to my own growth, I realize. We demonize what we fear, and my own struggles with pornography became entangled with my ideological and theological responses to sex work and erotica. Today, I still have many of the reservations about pornography and sex work that I had in the past. What I also have is more and more "time" away from pornography. My fear of relapse grows less intense as I get more and more distance from the period in my life where porn use was pretty darned compulsive. And while I am not over-confident, I am centered enough today to do a better job of distinguishing between my fears and my convictions. I'm certainly in a better space today than I was in April 2004, when I wrote that impassioned but somewhat overwrought post.Thanks to Ren, I found this post by Debs, a woman who has long been a radical feminist (in the classic, anti-porn sense): Across the Porn Divide. She writes:

Porn is a very important issue, and this article in no way attempts to say we should ignore it, or give up fighting for what we believe is right. But, I think that all kinds of feminists need to realise just how unproductive, unhelpful, and ultimately meaningless the current stand-off is. We repeat the same arguments, we all stay in our own 'camp' and do not venture out, not even for the shortest time, to converse with the 'other side'. We each go round in our own orbits, and never meet at any point. So much more could be achieved, and we could actually start to move forward with the issue of porn and other issues, if we could take some time to visit the other side, and actually engage with them. Talk to them. Begin some kind of dialogue. You may do this with the intention of changing people's minds, which would be fine, and you may even succeed, or you may, as I do, do this in the spirit of attempting some open dialogue to escape the suffocation of always talking to the same people, who always agree with you. It is not healthy for any person, or group of people, to always live in each other's pockets, so to speak, to never here a voice of dissent or disagreement, or to be challenged on anything. A person or group who operates like that cannot progress, and there can be no movement, which is what feminism is supposed to be.

Emphasis mine.In my case, I'm ready to do more listening than talking. I've got two avowedly "pro-sex" students in my women's studies class working on a scholar's option project about feminist pornography, and I'm looking forward to seeing how their project develops. I'm reading the work of women like Ren and Amber and Audacia and others, looking not for evidence of dysfunction or self-deception, but looking to connect with the reality of their experience.I am convinced that on balance, prostitution as it exists today in the Western world hurts virtually everyone involved. I remain convinced that the porn industry, particularly the male-centered mainstream, sends out tremendously damaging messages about sexuality. I am keenly aware that porn can play a part in reducing our ability to connect with each other as full and complete creatures of light. Porn, it still seems to me, is the enemy of empathy..

But I know that the real picture is more nuanced than that. While we must not ignore the voices of the exploited and the abused, we must also pay attention to the voices of those who experiences in sex work have been largely positive, fulfilling, and soul-affirming. We must stop trying to convince women who do like porn that they all have been "brainwashed". If we want the "other side" to stop calling us Puritan killjoys, it would help if we had a bit more willingness to validate and affirm the variety of views, responses, and experiences that women who like porn and sex work can share with us.

God willing, I won't "use" porn again. I remain deeply troubled by the impact porn has on men, women, and society. But I am more willing now to participate in dialogue -- not just for the purpose of swaying others to my view, but for the purpose of better understanding. And the end goal of "better understanding" is empathy, it is love, it is respect, and it is a world in which sexuality is a means to deep joy and justice for all of us.

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Thanks for posting this, Hugo. It's fascinating, and your candor is appreciated.

Curious to hear how your pro-porn students' project goes -- maybe they can join and blog about it? -- as well as your reaction to it.
A very thoughtful post. I appreciate your honesty and hope other commenters have an appreciation for how much you've openned yourself up.

Like you, I was an avid reader of MacKinnon and Dworkin and embraced what they had to say about pornography. My journey has taken me in a different direction, as I really don't have a problem with the idea of pornography.
Fascinating. As a guy who has used too much porn, I think the main harm in porn is referenced beautifully in an Israeli pop song (not about porn, but rather romantic books). The hook of the song goes "The novels I read as a girl / have made me a lonely woman".

When you watch sports, you fully understand you're not gonna perform like that at the park, nor experience the dizzying highs your viewing objects do when you score and win in your pickup games. When people watch porn, they may understand that they and their partners will never look as touched-up-perfect as those actors, but they do expect the same highs. The same peak of ecstasy as depicted.

It's a little like the culinary/dietary knock on American-Chinese (American-most ethnic foods): We took the yummiest, richest, most expensive holiday dishes and made them the backbone of the menu. This results in a much richer diet than the one that created the original dishes and cuisine in general. Result: the O word.

With porn, you expect every fuck to be super sizzling hot stuff, and if you let that get to you, you feel an emptiness when most encounters with your wife/gf/even casual pickup fall short of that.

The same way the multitude of women who grew up on certain European romance notions have trouble sustaining relationships. They expect a level of constant excitement that is featured in books precisely because it's not what happens to most people.

Rated, of course.
BTW, I feel a need to add this - I'm pro porn. I think it's a natural outlet and is way, way preferable to any manifestation of the same drives one can imagine, if porn were unavailable. Short of a fundamental change in human nature, rates of consumption may drop, but like the poor, ain't never going away.

I also firmly believe, from stuff I've read, that alongside the deplorable abuse (in itself the strongest argument against the free porn industry, but to my mind call for tight regulation, not abolition) - alongside that, there are quite a few tough, independent women who are no-ones fools and are coolly exploiting men's desperate need for any simulation, no matter how pathetic, of sexual (and other) intimacy. Is it a "healthy" choice for them? A) who am I to judge? B) As healthy and moral as going into most law and business, I'd say. Now, obviously live porn is a health-risky occupation, and doing porn bareback with ANYONE you don't actually live with as a couple is in-fucking-sane, and even then if you're both in the business is riskier than your non porn couple. But these are excesses that can be managed, and porn does not have to be inherently more risky than many other physical occupations.

At least that's how I see it. I've read some first hand accounts and spoken to some women, but nothing more first-hand.
You could live in a cave as a hermit and lash yourself with branches every morning. You sound like you have too much guilt but your sincerity is appealing.
Hugo,

I enjoyed your long and passionate post.

Back in the mid 70’s when I was an undergraduate I did a paper for one of my classes on the health and social impact of pornography. The key document I used for research was the document published by Nixon’s Commision on pornography. If my memory serves me correctly, the commision could find no social or health problems associated with pornography. Is there some more recent research that show a relationship between health and social problems and pornography? Further, are there any differences in the social malaise caused by the use of pornography between men and women?

More recently, there was an article in The Atlantic in which the author argues that Pornograhy is adultery ( see http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200810/adultery-porn ). While I don’t agree with many of the author’s arguments, he did mention that there is evidence of a negative correlation between the availability of pornography and the incidence of sexual violence. If nothing else, you might enjoy the article because it is in line with some of the stances posed in your post.
Yes, thank you for posting your thought process. Most people don't grapple with the nuances of understanding the other side of an issue. Your attempts to keep open-minded are admirable.
Thoughtful post about a difficult topic.
I'm sure you have heard this story:

Two monks were taking a journey. As they were walking, they came to a river where they met a young girl who could not walk. The girl asked the first monk, "Can you please help me cross the river?" The monk thought, "Well, how can I help her cross the river? She can't walk, so it means that I will have to take her in my arms to cross the water, which I can't do as a monk." Thinking this, he did not reply but just walked on, crossing the river himself. However, the second monk, who was walking behind him, just lifted the young girl up without saying anything and carried her across the river. Then he left her on the river bank, and the two monks continued their journey. After a while, the first monk said to the second monk, "How could you do that?" And the second monk asked, "How could I do what?" The first monk said, "How could you carry that girl?" And the second monk answered, "Well, I left her at the river bank, but you are still carrying her."

(Excerpted from bodhionline.org)
Very good Rich. Zen like.
Thanks, folks. I have a follow-up coming tomorrow.
I was struck by your statement that "a fulfilling sex life with a partner or a spouse is not a prophylaxis against porn addiction."

I espouse a belief called sex-positivity, and your frank essay is very sex-positive in a way, but very sex-negative in another way. It seems that you have started with the idea the pornography is bad as a given. Consuming pornography is a healthy sexual outlet. There are certainly types of porn whose production violates and exploits the objects of the images, but not all of it does. There is porn that explores the darker sides of human sexuality that actually shines a light onto healthy fantasy, couples roleplaying, and what you term "self-time," or masturbation.

None of these behaviors is inherently bad. Allowing their indulgence to the point that you are non-functional in society.
Not sure whether I'm the only woman here so far. In any case:

Porn damages, or can damage, relationships.

I suppose anyone who's not in a relationship--and has no serious financial obligations--isn't hurting anyone by using it. (I was once naive enough to think it existed for guys who were not in relationships.)

However long I may live, I will never understand men.
Ooops. Sorry, Lainey; didn't see you there.
Not like, Bart :-) It's a Zen story. I believe the "cool" monk in the story was named Tanzen.
Porn addiction is destructive. So is alcohol addiction.

Drinking alcohol is not inherently bad, and neither is using porn. In fact, both can be part of a normal, healthy lifestyle.

Too bad that your addiction has had negative effects in your life. I wish you luck in "staying clean," as people say about their addictions.
Yes, RickyB, I know that. That's why I gave Rich the tongue in cheek reply. Now you've spoilt it. Shame.
I am really surprised how few women weighed in on this post. I'm not sure what it means but I find it interesting.
I find this discussion rather mystical. Is there a way to bring it a little more down to earth? For instance, I don't understand how porn, a passive object, "damages relationships". That seems like saying "alcohol damages relationships." Someone has to decide to use the alcohol in a certain way before the relationship is damaged, no? Is there not a responsible party around? In any case, does all porn damage all relationships, or is it only that some porn damages some relationships? How do we know? To go on, I don't understand how some porn is "too much" (or too little). Again, how do we know? I am curious that most of the people I have read or heard confessing to porn addiction are religiously observant or were brought up in religious households. Is some kind of repression - derepression drama being played out not available to the less religious? I am not even sure people here are referring to the same thing -- after all, some art has a very strong erotic component but most of us don't think of it as pornographic -- I think. All in all, it's a strange landscape here.
Cissie, please read my next post in the series. Not all of us who talk about porn addiction were raised religiously -- I was raised by good feminist liberal atheist philosophy professors with Berkeley Ph.Ds.

Of course, I became a Catholic in college to spite them, but that's neither here nor there.
There are some religious references in your article above, such as "background with Evangelicals", "pastors", "God willing", "Calvinist" and so forth which might lead one to suppose some sort of religious framework. Not that they're smoking crucifixes or anything. Maybe it's just an interesting item.

Something like 1/3 of all Internet usage is connected with pornography, I have read. I'm just trying to understand the mystery.
There is a lot of ambivalence among woemn about pornography. Treu Feminists will declare that it is all sexploitation of women. I have a more nuanced view, but it would take some time to discuss that.

When I first read (and rated) theis post, I was also considering a second post, by a woman about the sex industry posted within a couple of hours of this one, which can be found here.

(I hope that works, it is my first-ever link).

I have no basic problem with porn, indeed, have enjoyed it more than once. But there are many caveats to that statement and to my opinion of the entire realm of the sex industry .

S0 perhaps more women did not comment because it's a gray area for many of us.
I suspected as much, Bart, but you were ultimately too droll for me :P
Thanks so much for this post. I am also torn about the effects of pornography. On one hand, I believe it is a fantasy, yet on the other, the predominant fantasies involve the degradation of women and girls.

I mean, if a person enjoys watching other people have sex, and if those other people enjoy having another person view them, then it is ok (more or less). And women like to watch just as much as men. I don't really see anything wrong in that idea.

It is a problem, because many of the people in the positions (literally) of making porn are from certain socio-economic backgrounds or have suffered abuse. It is also a problem because most porn is not pro-woman. It usually involves a woman choking, having anal sex or being ejaculated on. It is REALLY disturbing.

I don't know that pornography is the problem. Moreso what the current trends in pornography are, and the dominant misogynist voice.

I write about similar issues on my blog The Ashes of Persephone.
www.theashesofpersephone.wordpress.com

Thanks again
I'm going to withhold expressing an opinion until I digest this. The subject matter is fascinating--its SEX!--but the deeper issues have always disturbed me. I am a woman. Porn is generally degrading to women. And I watch it with my husband.