Ilya Shambat

Ilya Shambat
Location
Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Birthday
November 21
Title
Partner
Company
Adda Enterprises
Bio
Born in Russia, family moved to America when I was 12. Got a degree from University of Virginia at 18. Worked for Oracle, translated four books of classical Russian poety, was part of San Francisco and Washington, DC poetry and music scene. Good friends with San Francisco's own Persephone's Bees and acquainted with Patch Adams. Currently married with children, residing in Australia and working on a clean energy technology implementation.

MY RECENT POSTS

Ilya Shambat's Links

Salon.com
AUGUST 18, 2013 6:51AM

Promiscuity and Self-Esteem

Rate: 1 Flag
Any number of people believe that promiscuity comes from low self-esteem. This explanation does not pass the muster of history. The Baby Boom generation and the Flapper generation did not suffer more than other generations from shortage of self-esteem, and many people in these generations were promiscuous. And the World War II and X generation had as many people with low self-esteem as anyone else - in case of the X generation, probably more than most other generations - and neither generation was promiscuous.

For most of their history, Christianity and Islam preached that self-esteem was a sin; and neither of these populations was promiscuous. Whereas the Pacific Islander cultures and the pagans did not preach that self-esteem was a sin, and sex was celebrated in these populations. 

What all this means is that, in a historical context, there is no apparent correlation between self-esteem and promiscuity, and for that reason the explanation that promiscuity is a result of low self-esteem is false.

What actually does cause promiscuity? Some people are simply horny. Some people like the pleasure that they get. Some people think that that's what they have to offer. Some people experience intimacy and closeness. Some people like the praise and attention. Some people want to have fun. Some people are either not ready for or afraid of commitment. And then of course there are people who do it to survive.

Do some of these people have low self-esteem? Assuredly; but that does not mean that it is the root of promiscuous behavior as such. If it had been, then we would not be seeing baby boomers be more promiscuous than Generation X. Nor would we be seeing Christians and Muslims, that for most of their history demonized self-esteem, be less promiscuous than populations that celebrate it. There would be more promiscuity in Afghanistan or Alabama than in California, when of course the opposite is the case.

Promiscuity can have any number of reasons, but what cannot be said is that it is universally a product of low self-esteem. That is inconsistent with historical fact. There can be any number of reasons why someone - or a population - would be promiscuous. It is important to see each situation for what it is instead of forcing a blanket explanation on everyone.

Your tags:

TIP:

Enter the amount, and click "Tip" to submit!
Recipient's email address:
Personal message (optional):

Your email address:

Comments

Type your comment below:
"Christianity and Islam preached that self-esteem was a sin; and neither of these populations was promiscuous"

Quite the generalization there big fella. Bet there were and are plenty of "promiscuous" Christian and Muslim females, some with high, some with low self-esteem.

I see nothing about male humans above. Would you consider yourself "promiscuous?" If so, is it due to high self-esteem? Or, just to being a horndog? For me it's both. But if I had low self-esteem, I'd be every bit as horny. It's part of the human condition. God or the Universe made sex feel good to guarantee to perpetuity the proliferation of our (sometimes stupid) species.
"The Baby Boom generation and the Flapper generation did not suffer more than other generations from shortage of self-esteem, and many women in these generations were promiscuous."

please quote your source for this information...

oh, nevermind. it doesnt matter since you seem to reverse engineer your posts in order to put forth your half-baked personal agenda.

rather than waste my time trying to 'discuss' with someone who has shown themselves to be incapable of open minded discussion, let me just leave my opinion.

You are a misogynist.

have a nice day.
painting the collective underpants of Australia with a wide swath of woman hating shit brown aren't ya.
I'll just hope that deep inside you're not an asshole--that you're merely an attention whore (although there are better ways to grab attention)
Careful you two! Or you'll both be getting called, "shrill, misandrist, lesbian, feminist, harpies" soon!

(Then Bill Beck will back up his contentions with made up rhetoric that "man 'splains" everything and agree with him).
the lone rating up there is from vzn -- go figure .. hope he or she will come and illuminate his reasons for liking this piece of sh ... stuff
There is a huge difference between self-esteem and pride. Pride and vanity were considered sins. Self esteem is holding yourself as more or less valuable (for whatever reason) than another would consider you.

Our Puritan ancestors named their children after the virtues they considered desirable, and people who held those virtues would be considered of good esteem to others. Historically, I don't see how we have any valid records or reflections of what women have thought of themselves, which would be related to self-esteem.

Confidence is a different issue, and confident women tend to have fewer conflicts between what they choose to do and what they believe others think of them. Of course, confidence is often seen as arrogance or haughtiness, and is usually a problem for a man of lower status who has his eyes on a woman of higher status. Hence, the current PUA community using "negging" to try to deflate a woman's self esteem so they can replace it with their own opinion. If you think I am a bitch, that's your problem, not mine.

Promiscuity is no inherently a problem. Promiscuous men and women are in every social strata, but only women have to fear the consequences of physical and legal punishment, particularly death at the hands of lovers, brothers, fathers, lawmakers, priests, rapists.

Promiscuity is as personal as virginity, it is really nobody's business but your own. If you distinguish between promiscuous men and women, then you are a sexist.
"
Promiscuity is no inherently a problem. Promiscuous men and women are in every social strata, but only women have to fear the consequences of physical and legal punishment, particularly death at the hands of lovers, brothers, fathers, lawmakers, priests, rapists.

Promiscuity is as personal as virginity, it is really nobody's business but your own. If you distinguish between promiscuous men and women, then you are a sexist.
"

I don't distinguish between promiscuous women and men, the conservatives do. I'm friends with promiscuous people, I'm friends with non-promiscuous people, I haven't found the two to differ noticeably in their levels of self-esteem. This is part of the reason as to why I reject the explanation that promiscuity is based on low self-esteem; the other reasons are in the post.
"
"Christianity and Islam preached that self-esteem was a sin; and neither of these populations was promiscuous"

Quite the generalization there big fella. Bet there were and are plenty of "promiscuous" Christian and Muslim females, some with high, some with low self-esteem.
"

For most of the history of both religions, such women were getting killed. Now a lot of them survive as a result mostly of humanistic and secular practices and laws. But there are parts of the world where they don't.

"
I see nothing about male humans above. Would you consider yourself "promiscuous?"
"

Not particularly. I'm not into casual sex, the sexual relations that I have had were either within the context of a committed relationship or within the context of a very close friendship.

"
If so, is it due to high self-esteem? Or, just to being a horndog? For me it's both. But if I had low self-esteem, I'd be every bit as horny. It's part of the human condition. God or the Universe made sex feel good to guarantee to perpetuity the proliferation of our (sometimes stupid) species.
"

My self-esteem has tested as being moderate. I'm probably more horny than the average person. Another example of the two traits failing to correlate.
The problem with this is that you call out promiscuous women and you cite no references, which means it is all your opinion. How about a rewrite that includes the male of the species, or at least removes the calling out of the female.
"
"The Baby Boom generation and the Flapper generation did not suffer more than other generations from shortage of self-esteem, and many women in these generations were promiscuous."

please quote your source for this information...
"

You deny that the Boomers, who had free love, orgies and hippie communes, were more promiscuous than the gen-Xers who have for the most part been socially conservative?

"
oh, nevermind. it doesnt matter since you seem to reverse engineer your posts in order to put forth your half-baked personal agenda.
"

I write because I have things to say. I write more because I have original things to say.

"
rather than waste my time trying to 'discuss' with someone who has shown themselves to be incapable of open minded discussion
"

I'm capable of open-minded discussion. Check my responses in the schizophrenia and bipolar thread.

"
, let me just leave my opinion.

You are a misogynist.
"

That's a completely ridiculous thing to say. If I had been a misogynist, my women friends would have noticed. For that matter if I had been a racist, my black friends would have noticed as well. There are enough real misogynists in the world that you do not need to be painting as misogynists the people who aren't. Of course dealing with real misogynists may be more difficult and dangerous than yelling at me.
"
painting the collective underpants of Australia with a wide swath of woman hating shit brown aren't ya.
I'll just hope that deep inside you're not an asshole--that you're merely an attention whore (although there are better ways to grab attention)
"

I spent more time in America than I did in Australia.

Each place has different problems. In Australia, the biggest gender-related problem is actual misogynists who insist on being brutal to their wives. In liberal parts of America, the biggest gender-related problem is the women who teach other women to be horrible to men and also to attack nicer and prettier women.

I am neither an asshole nor an attention whore; I am someone who has things to say. And that means, about everyone.
"
The problem with this is that you call out promiscuous women and you cite no references, which means it is all your opinion. How about a rewrite that includes the male of the species, or at least removes the calling out of the female.
"

Done.
Promiscuity is defined as number of sexual partners more than one, or outside of marriage. How we define sexual partners obviously varies, since oral sex and anal sex are often used to get around "real sex" partner numbers, and the times are changing to include that. Why someone would have multiple partners can only be taken in the context of whether or not they had a choice in the matter, and why they chose it if they did.
Women and men crave variety, and many people also do not like to have monogamous, life long relationships. Some will take care of this through the Swinger community, some have polyamory, some have serial monogamy, and from my friends who have participated in that, all of them have phenomenal senses of self esteem and high standards for their partners. The women I know who would be likely to hook up with any man who asked her, or use sex for social status barter, or just use sex for things, usually understand where there place is on the social status ladder and that it is considered low by other people. The women I know whose self esteem appears to be higher than accorded by others would be called a lot of things, depending on her activity, all designed to "keep her in line". Labeling someone promiscuous is a way of trying to keep her in line.

Young women, however, with low self esteem are often easily exploited sexually, and more likely to put up with physical abuse as well. That doesn't make them horny sluts, even if they are far more likely to have multiple partners. Women with high self esteem also seek out multiple partners, but the quality of the partnership varies and has more to do with personal choice than exploitation. The issue of promiscuity is that it is almost always exclusively framed it as a problem to be avoided for young women. There are no discussions around birth control, teen pregnancy or STDs that focus on male promiscuity that I have ever read. Just like we lack words for male sluts, we lack a context in which we think promiscuity is problematic for men with the exception of homosexual men and HIV/AIDS. To throw the word promiscuous around does nothing to examine the circumstances by which a woman would find herself having more than one partner.
There is, however, an ongoing public discourse around healthcare that seeks to actively discriminate against "promiscuous women".
"Promiscuity is defined as number of sexual partners more than one, or outside of marriage. How we define sexual partners obviously varies, since oral sex and anal sex are often used to get around "real sex" partner numbers, and the times are changing to include that. Why someone would have multiple partners can only be taken in the context of whether or not they had a choice in the matter, and why they chose it if they did.

Women and men crave variety, and many people also do not like to have monogamous, life long relationships. Some will take care of this through the Swinger community, some have polyamory, some have serial monogamy, and from my friends who have participated in that, all of them have phenomenal senses of self esteem and high standards for their partners.
"

Correct again. As I've been saying, promiscuity is not a product of low self-esteem, so that belief has to go.

"
The women I know who would be likely to hook up with any man who asked her, or use sex for social status barter, or just use sex for things, usually understand where there place is on the social status ladder and that it is considered low by other people.
"

It's interesting, because hippie women generally did go for people who asked them. That did not come from low self-esteem. It came from a sex-celebrating ideology.

"
The women I know whose self esteem appears to be higher than accorded by others would be called a lot of things, depending on her activity, all designed to "keep her in line". Labeling someone promiscuous is a way of trying to keep her in line.
"

It can be that as well. On a more important issue, while there are many who claim being a victim of domestic violence to be a product of low self-esteem, that likewise is not the case in many situations. There are many relationships in which one partner seeks to beat the other partner out of whatever self-esteem they may possess; and this affects people with high or moderate self-esteem more than does it affect people with low self-esteem.

"
Young women, however, with low self esteem are often easily exploited sexually, and more likely to put up with physical abuse as well. That doesn't make them horny sluts, even if they are far more likely to have multiple partners.
"

No, it doesn't. A lot of time young women - whether with high self-esteem or low self-esteem - are tricked or bullied into it. And that can have negative ramifications for them for a long time.

"
Women with high self esteem also seek out multiple partners, but the quality of the partnership varies and has more to do with personal choice than exploitation. The issue of promiscuity is that it is almost always exclusively framed it as a problem to be avoided for young women. There are no discussions around birth control, teen pregnancy or STDs that focus on male promiscuity that I have ever read. Just like we lack words for male sluts, we lack a context in which we think promiscuity is problematic for men with the exception of homosexual men and HIV/AIDS.
"

Male sluts, eh. How about just calling them horndogs?

"
To throw the word promiscuous around does nothing to examine the circumstances by which a woman would find herself having more than one partner.
"

Again correct. It's not universally a result of low self-esteem.

"
There is, however, an ongoing public discourse around healthcare that seeks to actively discriminate against "promiscuous women".
"

I knew of an abortion doctor who gave his patients Hepatitis C. Needless to say he is no longer free to do that.