I felt this might be a good time to re-post this, since it makes me look like a sage and I'm but a lowly idiot.
Originally posted: June, 2009
The herd mentality is nurtured from birth. Parents don't want their children ostracized, so they begin to meld them into a form acceptable to the masses.
Schooling continues to form children, other children bully different types until they conform. Whether or not they really change or pretend to change, just to make life easier, won't be known until later in life.
People that continue through college and even more so those that attend Harvard "class" schools are taught how to behave. How the corporate world wants you to behave and think. I categorize corporate America as tyrannical.
You either play by their rules, wear their uniform, talk positively about the company or risk being turned-in by a co-worker. Leading to you being expelled from the order.
Graduates have learned how to behave/function in this tyrannical society. Having been assimilated into the system, they're more desirable to the corporate socialism, less troublesome. Their free thoughts cleansed, they'll do what the company wants.
Having spent some time among writers, activists and idealists it seems many are willing to be under employed (willing to lead less lucrative lives) rather than conform or as they see it prostrate themselves. Leaving the assimilated to look down from their piles of money and judge them to be lesser beings.
Watching the news I'm constantly reminded that the meatsacks spewing the news are goose-stepping their corporate propaganda. I have a conspiracy theory that this white-noise is to keep us from seeing what's really important. Things that might cause us (the majority) to unite in anger and storm the walls.
James Madison said that the main goal of the new system was "to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority". I read this little gem years ago, I'm constantly reminded of its truth when I watch the news or read some corporate tool typing for their lord and master.
The Media is a hugely successful propaganda machine specifically designed to keep us misdirected, quibbling amongst ourselves and powerless. While the real powers do what WE don't want them to.
Because as long as we remain divided, the top 1% are free to do what they please behind the curtain. Our little fractious groups vie for mythical power that simply does not exist.
Say I spend my time fighting over religion or for feminists or politics. We're all expending energy on our little pet projects while the bigger picture happens in plain site, we're just told it's not important. Or more precisely we're told what is important and what we should be mad about and who to be mad at.
Only when they throw us a scapegoat like Bernie Madoff is it the top 1% that we're told to be mad at.
People working in the corporate kingdom don't need to be censored, the self-censoring is ingrained by the system. If you want to keep your job you do not write negative words about the people writing your checks.
I gained a new respect for Phil Donohue when I learned his show was cancelled because he would not kowtow to MSNBC's propaganda parade, whipping the masses into mass hysteria supporting the invasion of Iraq. At the time of its cancellation the show was the highest rated show on MSNBC. Derive what you will from this.
I'm feeling a bit duped. On occasion I forget my own beliefs and get caught-up in the smoke and mirrors deception. Our tenuous grasp on freedom depends on how much we BELIEVE we are free. If we glance down to the rope of freedom we cling to we'll see it's a rope of sand.
James Madison admits the system is designed to keep the minority in line. They've implemented improved tools that operate in plain site, yet we the people are blinded by the overload of bullshit.
If you live on a pig farm you eventually don't smell the shit, yet you know it's there.
We can all watch this play out in real time as Obama attempts to massage a little single-payer health care for everyone through the gauntlet of Washington.
I expect for-profit healthcare to pull out all the stops, enlisting the Media in a smear with fear campaign. The Corporate Media will all fall in line with their Tyrants call, since they're all about the cash. Ad revenue will pour in from the for-profit healthcare scammers.
Bill O'Reilly may actually behead a person for showing healthcare-for-profit puts money ahead of lives.
Their lobbyists will dump large sums of cash in the form of ad revenue and The Machine (Matrix) will blot out all rational thought as the masses are hypnotized into believing the same people who screwed us over (remember: Banks, Wall Street, The Ultra-Wealthy) in the past will now miraculously change into humanitarians.
Sadly, this works...a lot. We are swayed into voting against our own best interests.
Although there is much more to say, I'll leave this as a simple opening for what I believe to be the bigger problem. Class is rarely mentioned in our day to day skirmishes.
We in America like to think there are no classes or, if there are classes, everyone has an equal shot at pulling themselves up by their bootstraps. The evidence does not support that claim.
The Media is a weapon used to assuage us of our ills against the elite. It no longer serves the people, it serves the elite. The Media claims to be our moral guardian, their actions belay their words.
Listen and watch as the talking heads continue to divide us. Imagine the rich and powerful peering over their gilded walls. What do they see? Billions of people fighting for the scraps AMONGST OURSELVES.
The treasure is behind their walls. We are fighting the wrong enemy. Put our trivial pursuits aside and unite, to at least incrementally improve our lot.
The elite will not give ground easily. They have the power and wealth, they have propaganda and lobbyists and politicians at their disposal (in their pocket). This should not be dismissed.
If the Media weren't a powerful weapon why would the Elite own almost all of it?
Sorry, I've gone on too long and glazed eyes look back at me. This will be lost and forgotten. As many before have been.
The chasm between the elite and the majority will eventually become too much for all (us) to bear and this tilting at windmills will end... long after I'm gone.
Their trickle-down system will keep Us placated. Their Media will keep Us distracted and fighting amongst ourselves for quite some time yet.
"Do you know the enemy?" Green Day
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Damn right!
Rated
You're a lucky human if you are left alone...and I don't mean lonely. But to do as you please.
My only disagreement (mild) would be about the herd mentality being nurtured from birth. True enough - but the big problem is that it is already there, waiting to be nurtured. We need to encourage less following our instincts as herd animals. Yet still be interested in the over-all best interests of the herd! A difficult proposition.
The health care thing is particularly sad. It seems so obvious that the insurance companies only take out precious dollars, do not provide any benefit to the system, and are buying the legislators (who have splendid government-paid health care that they deny to their constituents). And there are many many voices raised in favor of a government single-payer system. Yet I can't see it happening.
I'm fortunate to live in a country where we have had universal government-paid health care for half a century, and we watch you people falling upon each other over the idea, and shake our heads in sorrow and disbelief. How did we come to have it? Someone in a comment thread said oh it was easier for Canada because it's a more homogeneous country (and thus the herd gets along better internally, or something?) - but this is not so. Our biggest city, Toronto, is WASP-minority/'visible minority' majority. I don't know what the figures are for Montreal and Vancouver, but you see a whole lot of non-white faces. (And in Saskatchewan, birthplace of our universal health-care, the Native population is making a comeback and may well be the majority before long.)
Which brings me to a paranoid speculation. Speaking of herds and homogeneousness ... I think underlying the whole eek-it's-socialism thing is a white anger at the concept of 'paying for' black health care. One of the legacies of the deep-seated American racism (that was 'necessary' at one time in order to make slavery possible). Hopefully it's fading, and it would be only poetic justice if it were a black president who managed to get the health-care thing established...
P.S. - You also have an impossible governing system, where every congress person and representative is autonomous. Makes it easy for corporate interests to divide and conquer...
I never wore a uniform and I played by most of their rules. When I didn't approve of a rule I would let them know without being arrogant or rude. Sometimes the rules got changed.
One of my charges was fired for sitting in a company truck, after hours, smoking marijuana. While at the same time a drunken sales rep was in an auto accident which caused injuries to other parties. He was given 60 day off with pay. I wrote to the president of the company and complained loudly. The guy who smoked marijuana was reinstated and given 30 days suspension with pay.
Sometimes you have to stand up and not let them control you.
Granted, I probably lost out on some promotions along the way but I never stood down when I knew I was right.
What always amazes me is how people like Rush, O'Reilly, or Hannity, all multi-millionaires, can position themselves as "men of the people" and get 30K a year janitors to vote for their interests instead of their own. (Rated)
And Marx and Engels would agree with you - oh, wait, that's right, I forgot, they're no longer *fashionable* - silly me.
Tragic times. When conservatives lose hope in America.
I heard somebody call Washington a "one party town". Sadly she earned that title long before the dems took control.
Washington should change it's name to "Eliteville".
Rated
i would give them head all in a row, if they would have me.
i struggle, constantly, with my own values - which have very much shunned corporate america - with kindof WANTING my son to be that drone that has no trouble going to sleep at night. so he is sure to grow up conflicted - is he a hippy, or does he want to go to princeton? but, see, john mcphee and einstein both taught at princeton, so there is no shame in wanting to go to princeton, where you might have such teachers.
i dont know about it all.
but james madison rocks!
Much is made about the Tyranny of the Majority, but not nearly so much is made of the Tyranny of Money. That's because those who have money have managed to take advantage of the greed of those who don't and convince them that in America anyone can grow up to be as rich as Bill Gates.
Unfortunately, Such myths and delusions have been reinforced with the election of Obama. Yes, anyone can grow up to be President; all you need is to be born with an IQ around 150, take advantage of affirmative action to get you into Harvard, be photogenic, be a remarkable orator, and most importantly -- run for the office following the worst US president in history.
That president, George W. Bush, far more represents the reality that anyone, no matter how unworthy, can get a "legacy" entrance into Yale, can fail at every business venture despite a dubious Harvard MBA, and yet still get elected President. All that is required is lots of money and powerful political connections.
Then, after failing miserably for eight years, you can retire with a "golden parachute" with a substantial pension and innumerable perks for life, and get paid $7 million dollars to lie your ass off and rewrite history in your ghost-written memoir.
Artists have to comply with the dictates of the Arts Mafia. Trust me, there IS an Arts Mafia, and there are uniforms. The hype and propaganda is astounding.
Farmers have to comply with the dictates of a host of organizational crap, from co-op and political politics to regulatory dictates. And there are uniforms.
Show me a cook who doesn't wear a clean uniform of a type that works well for cooks. Or a nurse who wears a uniform. Or an oil wildcatter who wears a type of clothing. Or a crab fisherman who wears certain gear.
In some workplaces, you have to wear business dress. In other offices, every day is "casual Friday". Since when is business dress a problem? There is cheap business dress and there is expensive business dress. Few people are so high up that they have to buy the correct designer suits in order to do well at work. Just don't stink 'n wrinkle is usually the rule.
Clerical and office workers have their ways of getting along and going along which may look unappealing to those who never really worked there or know how it truly is. Just as artists and courtroom attorneys and musicians and political operatives and professional writers have to do.
Most clerical and office workers are too busy doing the actual work to bother with that mythical constant of ass kissing and compliance with the stupid details of corporate "rules".
That work is not for fools who think that they're going to climb to the pinnacles of power and get that corner office.
Yeah, right, you'll work your way up from the mail room only if you came into that mail room with an MBA and need to be oriented from the bottom up. Then, the career mail room people will frequently tell you to kiss their ass.
And "kiss my ass" gets said a lot more than you can imagine, with no one getting fired, either.
And yes, there are career mail room people who are perfectly happy to be there. What the hell is wrong with that? Maybe that's what's wrong with this whole picture.
When I lived in Europe, people were proud of their jobs, no matter how simple appearing the job was, and they put their best attention to their work, whatever it was.
We allowed corporations to become paranoid and psychotic. But very few people who take customer calls, pack parts, type, file, handle mail, audit, analyze, report, organize, store and retrieve data are committing the crimes of the century.
Maybe we're just too damned ambitious, unrealistic, spoiled, demanding, or unable to define our goals. But jobs are never just jobs. They become careers when we quit trying to be Gordon Gecko, get realistic, pay attention to the work, forget the politics and get on with life.
Then, if we're still unhappy, we can rightfully blame the work and go on to live in a more satisfying way.
Oh...and life? My boring, drone office coworkers have included people who walked on live lava in Hawaii, flown missions during their reserve gigs, earned their college degrees on weekends, attended presidential inaugurations on VIP tickets, driven all night for the NAACP, built homes for "Habitat For Humanity", taken care of newborns, hiked, biked rode, camped, traveled to the farthest places, and become gifted artists, musicians, and community leaders. Or their children have.
There are different corporations. With different mentalities, philosophies, and environments. There is no one corporate environment, or there wouldn't be "best and worst places to work" lists every year.
Before we show only one picture. I hope I provided a more comprehensive camera.
But, like Michael Moore, you've asked excellent questions, and defined the problem in the right terms, and then stopped.
The next question is: What do we DO about this? We have GOT to get up off our collective asses and CHANGE things. How do we get there? Why have so many past efforts failed? Those are the hard questions that my blog, and my organization's website (linked on my blog) try to answer.
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this - after you get some sleep!
Sorry, I'm just getting up and have to get ready for work. Two long days ahead.
Mr. Mustard. Yes there is shit.
Thanks Buffy, Roger, Philos, lorilei, Mick, jane, Tom... I wish I had time to write a comment to each.
Thanks zuma and Harry and organian.
I love this topic as it has some intrigue and conspiracy and it happen in plain sight.
Thanks again... I can't wait to get to read the comments in depth.
He has enlisted fear using words and phrases American's immdeiately recoil from: Socialism, do you want the government in charge of your health? No, but I don't want greedy prick, oh, wait...pretty much the same.
They're just gonna run it into the ground like medicare.
Are we American's all entitled? Just like the liberal and their socialist entitlement programs...
Thank Glenn Beck, you inglorious bastard, for proving my point.
Now go take your meds.
We've already lost. They make the rules by which we play. When they need, they change the rules. I can't add much to what has already been said. Tom Cordle said a mouthful with which I fully agree.
Organian raises the point of all this: what do we do about it? Elections seem to be a total scam at this point. So, what is left? Money runs everything, including elections, so ...
RATED
i pretty much agree with you, but in recent months decided the fight must be left in the hands of younger people. after saying similar things for years i can report it does no good. there is such a thing as national character, and americans are slaves, unable to see their mental chains, unable to imagine self direction.
so don't get too excited about politics, the game was fixed before you were born.
we need a return to unions it is the only organized voice for workers
Also, take note, that holohoax education is now mandated in many states starting in KINDERGARTEN. Visit my profile page for links to manuals, and USHMM site which gives the laws mandating it state by state.
The 'holocaust', by Jewish accounts, was the most egregious example of the brutality and immorality of white Christian European culture. That is, for many of us, our culture. We are committing cultural suicide.
Tink, yes.
Scanner: A uniform could be a logo on a golf shirt. Satying in line might mean you wouldn't drink Coke at the Pepsi plant you work at.
Yes Rich...conform and get ahead. Or choose not to conform, their are only a lucky few that make it by not conforming.
I don't think it's a race issue, as I've tried to point out that many of our petty disagreements are class based, yet we're told they're racially based, to keep us fighting amongst ourselves. When we're all looking for the same outcome.
Having worked in "urban areas" for a few years (does not make me an expert) however, I saw people of all races in the lower classes struggling to get by. All races, all without hope for the chance to pull themselves up by the bootstraps.
Yes, the big money divides us and conquers by keeping us confused and telling us what we want to hear and giving us just enough so we don't unite and revolt.
Nanahetey, you are right, how silly of me let me give everyone a nice old SNL Update: Michael Jackson is still dead. I didn't know I answered an open call?
Blackflon: I've been fired, ahem, a few times. Some I felt good about, I said what I believed to be true and necessary to save some self-respect. A couple times I pointed out some major losses and ideas that would lose money (and why, with solutions)... this did not work out well. Since it was people above me whose ideas these were.
The owner/head of the company gets to be stupid...
Mr. Mustard...agreed, again.
Roger: We used to break-up conglomerates smaller than the behemoths we have today. Thank you Ronny Reagan.
lorelei the word socialist is not so good in this country. Im not for socialism, I'd like to see the free-market regulated. And that means regulations with real consequences. Free-market left on its own has proven not to work.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
We saw first hand how the banks once they were bailed out, with NO consequences, are locked and loaded to do it again.
Philos: As you can see, I don't think much will change as long as the top 1% are allowed to buy the services of our representatives. Obama may very well be a good man, I'm not sure we'll ever know. The power elite have dug in over time, it's a fortress. GW was happy to play along at our expense, Obama? I'm not sure what he stands for.
Thanks Mick. Yes, we're losing more and more each day. But what's one to do but make sure they're counted among those that know (or think they know) what's going on and submit.
Jane-From what I know of the founding fathers many of them would've been happy to get head. James Madison does rock.
Einstein and many other brilliant people are allowed to operate outside the matrix, for obvious reasons.
Tom-"myths fed them by the monied class." Well said.
The Bill Gates Myth: The One in a Billion Golden Boy that makes us think the HUGE disparity in class (wealth) is our own doing. Therefore we deserve our lot in life. So, what we know of this is: if you drop out of college with a good idea you will be a billionaire.
It is a lot easier to be GW Bush. Doofus with a golden spoon (not something we all have), but if you have those connections anybody can be president.
http://www.newciv.org/whole/schoolteacher.txt
The scary part of our "system" is that Corporate America IS the elite media. They and the massive corporations do in fact RUN America. And we celebrate freedom this day!
However, I do recall reading about it. I couldn't possibly include all the tangents and possible outcomes and variables and input and unknown quantities.
Part of the problem with revolutions is it could make things worse as the same greedy turds seem to grab for power. I've often thought we should draft our leaders from a qualified pool of applicants. The first ones tossed from the pool are the one's that actually want the job.
"There is no one corporate environment, or there wouldn't be "best and worst places to work" lists every year." Sure Zuma, I've worked for a couple of the "best" and they were the worst. Voting for these companies is done by "secret" ballot by people that don't want to lose their jobs.
Of course there are degrees of corporations. I had to broad stroke this in order not to turn it into a book.
Harry Homeless- I know of no human, the greatest genius included, that is not simple in some way. The media studies how to exploit these weaknesses, advertising is another example.
I wasn't going to lay into religion here, but hey, brilliant minds in one area of expertise struggle to reconcile their belief in religion.
We're all pretty simple.
Organian: The next question is: What do we DO about this? I don't know.
Rich: Organian raises the point of all this: what do we do about it? Elections seem to be a total scam at this point. So, what is left? Money runs everything, including elections, so ... Exactly, what do we do?
Al Loomis: This is not a new story. It is as old as writing, that's the saddest part. If you read ancient writing, the anger and frustration is there. The same problems are there. We haven't found the correct balance. I don't think the huge disparity we have is correct, yet I will not lie and say we're all gonna be equal (it's wealth and class I"m speaking of).
But we could get things a little more equitable, maybe.
Kathy: In the fantasy world I'm dreaming of there would be no need for unions, due to the fair and equitable balance of wealth and power. This will be lead by President Peter Pan.
Or the fabled warrior poet.
Yes Cartouche, I agree with Tom.
It's hard to know what to do and just easier for all of us to go on with our lives and put aside the powerless feeling. I do it.
Narcissus- I did not write this to get hooked-into a holocaust denial post. So, as a courtesy, please stay on topic. I'm not going to debate you on the holocaust here.
However, propaganda as used today (born long ago), was advanced in the First "war to end all wars" oxymoron. Britain, in a world of shit, used propaganda and was aided by the U.S. media to get the United State into the war. As we were a very pacifist country or just didn't see how a German/Europe would effect us.
This use of propaganda was not lost on little Adolph. He used it to great success or great failure depending on your point of view. In any case the fucktard was damn good at propaganda and wound up getting the world to fight another world war.
It could easily be argued that Alexander the Great and many, many, sadly many others committed atrocities. You are named "great" if you win.
Many conquerors were hailed unanimously by throngs because those that opposed them were dead or feared death. It happens today as well.
Hmm, you brought race into it as well... This is about class and uniting against those that oppress us. Conspire to oppress us in the light of day.
Boomer- "The scary part of our "system" is that Corporate America IS the elite media. They and the massive corporations do in fact RUN America. And we celebrate freedom this day!"
We should celebrate freedom today. We should also question why we're getting less and less free. That's a freedom we have.
So I wrote this to question freedom. Why are we moving away from it for the majority and granting more to the minority? The answer is money.
We can all be bought. I wonder if I were given the key to the ivory tower if I'd still be as edgy...or would I become one of them.
I hope not. But how would I know unless someone tries to buy me?
Orwell did. Douglas Adams made it hilarious...
I appreciate you thoughts.
The discussion certainly expanded my thoughts. I tend to get focused on proving myself right and lose sight of the original question.
Holocaust denial is not the immediate issue.
Do you understand that the holocaust is being taught, by state mandate, in KINDERGARTEN. Between fingerpainting and the alphabet, perhaps.
Can you name anything comparable in the entire educational history of the US. It is beyond outrageous, and you are afraid to comment?
Can you not see that this totally inappropriate conditioning of children by the educational system is part and parcel of the propaganda power of the media?
Do you realize that the ADL is very actively working to eliminate any questioning of the holocaust history. That is a 'free speech' issue, and also directly related to the power of the media to control thought. When the media fails, it's always good to have the option of jail time. This is not hypothetical, this is what happens in Europe, Canada, and Australia. 'Hate crime' laws can be used very broadly to control the media.
Still afraid to address the issue?
I'm a little upset you didn't at least notice I took over 2 hours to answer every post,
You didn't grant me the courtesy I asked for.
You are hijacking my post for your own gain. I said I would not debate the holocaust here and asked you for a reprieve.
You did not grant a reprieve.
I did not say"afraid" you are just ignoring my request to leave this alone.
I am not afraid of your topic. Please leave my topic alone. I asked nicely.
Because as long as we remain divided, the top 1% are free to do what they please behind the curtain. Our little fractious groups vie for mythical power that simply does not exist."
Yep. Exactly right. Of course, it's not just the media, it's the political establishment as well. The faux 'liberals' and 'conservatives'. Some of the issues are real, like abortion, but they are of no interest of themselves to the oligarchy. Of course the utility of these issues is of great interest because they can be used to put divide the hoi-polloi and to put them at each others throats.
Yep. Got all that. But, there is more to it.
So, if you read Hitler's Mein Kampf, you'll see the power of propaganda explicitly discussed in a way that struck me as slightly shocking. The masses are discussed as blockheads that can be easily manipulated by the skillful use of propaganda. Think about it. This is contrary to everything we have been taught to believe. Is Hitler right? Consider he put his ideas to the test, and was remarkably successful in using propaganda to bend a country to his will.
Hitler did not distinguish between 'true' and 'false' propaganda. The important thing was the goal, and that was to effect desired behavior. Hitler's thought the core content of his propaganda to be true, but that was not an operative criteria.
So, you have correctly discussed how propaganda, or the media if you will, can be used to render the US electorate disorganized and ineffective. This, compared to Hitler's task of mobilizing a population for war, has got to be easy, especially given the nature of the electronic media that reaches into every household 24/7 every day.
OK, so up to here, we are right on topic, are we not?
But there is more, the educational system is of course a key player and conditions us to accept WIHTOUT QUESTION the conceptual framework that the media provides, and to believe in its basic integrity.
I'm a techie, so I have always considered our educational system objective, impartial, and very effective. In technical fields, I think it is EXCELLENT. I assumed that the same was true of the soft sciences, history, econ, poli sci, etc. Now, I do not believe that at all. Look, for example, at the complete irrelevance of the academic economists to the current crisis. They have been totally wrong, more than wrong, irrelevant, for the last 20 years. These departments are PROPAGANDA organs, not similar in any way to the hard science departments.
And if you want to know the most extreme and perverse propaganda function the education system has been put to, reaching all the way down to KINDERGARTEN ..... well, you'll just have to discover it for yourself. Now, I'm afraid that if I mention it you will be offended. Your (what I take to be) visceral response to a mere mention of.... well, we won't mention it... is an example of the INCREDIBLE power of the media/educational system to inculcate any damn idea that they choose.
Your response is well-thought out and I agree with it.
I was not offended, it just seems you take every chance to discuss the one topic dear to your heart.
I have written many times about my distaste for religion so I have no love loss for the Jewish faith any more or less than the others.
I find it particularly silly that Jews define themselves as a separate race. And choose to see the wars with Arabs (since both sides originate from the same region) as race wars and not what they are: Religious wars.
However, I believe the holocaust occurred. Whether Hitler and his cronies actually pulled the trigger or Jews died because of the camps is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
Hitler agreed to the final solution which was genocide. Although genocide was all the rage (Stalin, Mao, the Turks) I personally don't find it to be an acceptable solution.
Now, since you have brought up the holocaust, and since this thread is about done anyhow .....
Jay writes "However, I believe the holocaust occurred."
You 'believe' the holocaust occurred I suspect just as I did, because you have been told by the government, educational system, and the media, that it did. This is the point ! They are not reliable ! Their motives are not pure.
Jay continues "Whether Hitler and his cronies actually pulled the trigger or Jews died because of the camps is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned."
A remarkable sentence, you've hit the ground running in full reverse. Who committed the murders doesn't matter? How the Jews died doesn't matter? Whether or not they were murdered at all doesn't matter? False charges of 'gas chambers' don't matter (I'll infer)? Numbers don't matter (I'll presume)? The most heinous crime every committed, the 'best documented genocide in history' (Chomsky), and nothing matters. This strikes me way too odd.
Suppose for a moment, just suppose, that the facts of the holocaust do matter. You would find out, in relatively short order, that
1. the Nazis did not attempt to exterminate anyone
2. the camps were efficiently run, Auschwitz alone supplied 80,000 laborers to vital war industries in the region.
3. there were no gas chambers
4. the evidence of mass deaths you have see, the photos, are of typhus victims taken at the END of the war in camps in Germany proper, where many died due to disease due to overcrowding, as prisoners had been transferred in from the east, and lack of supplies, food, medicine, Zyklon (for killing lice), etc.
5. the numbers, the six million, dates from WW I and is pure phantasmagoria.
Finally, there was no attempted genocide. There was no genocide. It is a hoax.
Narcissus. Depending on my mood and the time I have, I may just make your comments and mine a new blog.
You are quite adept at twisting my words to fit your needs. I've read these exact words from you before. Which puts me at the disadvantage of having to think things through before typing.
You, on the other hand, are locked and loaded with huge blocks of text to cut and paste.
As I sit here watching Bill O'Reilly blather on, his guests defending Sarah Palin as "making a brave decision" and saying the liberals are unfair to criticize her.
Bill on the other hand says she's a quitter and that he gets criticized everyday, but he won't quit because what he does is important.
It is if you find vomiting polemic views important. He tells his followers what they want to hear. He verbally bludgeons dissenters instead of debating issues with facts or even his opinions.
He just raises his voice and cuts people off, this is how he "wins" arguments, by bullying. He's hollering right now.
The people that follow him believe the louder you are the righter you are. These are not smart people, these are people that couldn't win a debate, they could punch your lights out or physically intimidate people.
He is the voice of the stupid.
He lauds himself for bringing on dissenting views then simply hollers over all their points and claims victory. His drooling fans applaud his victory over those damned smart people. You know the annoying ones that graduated high school and could multiply numbers together.
This, alas, is not just conservatives or liberals or republicants or demacraps... it seems we're in a world of shit. As the masses make this type of "news" profitable by watching these shows (as I'm doing) they continue to expose us as troglodytes still dripping in primordial ooze.
Ugh, Billo Reilly good. Me send him club to beat people. People that talk good need club on head. People talk good piss off Bill, me help Bill...send him club and Fred Flintstone suite, ugh, drooling. Why knuckles always scraping ground. Ugh. Me gonna beat a good talker today. Hear big word, whack big word user.
Please do, you can't imagine how I would relish a discussion with an intelligent (not really necessary), somewhat energetic (some energy is required however, you cannot overcome years of conditioning if you are completely passive/reactive) and hopefully open minded (this is essential) 'believer'.
Jay writes - "You are quite adept at twisting my words to fit your needs. "
This is not true. I don't have to twist them.
Jay writes - "I've read these exact words from you before. "
This is true. I've been 'debating' the hoax online for maybe a year. I've seen most of the arguments. Most of the evasions. Most of the tactics. Not much surprises me.
Jay writes - "Which puts me at the disadvantage of having to think things through before typing."
It will do you good. I've thought about it quite a bit.
Jay writes - "You, on the other hand, are locked and loaded with huge blocks of text to cut and paste."
This is true. But only because the arguments and standard evasions are so predictable. And you'd be surprised at how hard I think before deciding on a approach, e.g., to you last post. You said many non-factual things which merited a response, but you had positioned yourself, by claiming everything was unimportant, to answer any fact. That too is a standard tactic. There is a new book claiming that Auschwitz itself is not important (and that the Reinhard camps are where the action was) !!! So, I finally realized that I had to go after your evasion. And, I didn't cut and paste that particular response. I did save it however, to use in the future !
One little thing I wanted to add .... do you know what the three most famous holocaust survivors, Elie Weisel, Otto Frank, and Primo Levi, have in common ????
Answer: They were all in the hospital in Auschwitz when the Russian approached ! Weisel, as he describes in "Night" was given the option of awaiting the Russian, or decamping with the Nazis. He went with the Nazis ! Frank and Levi were liberated by the Russians.
think of the scene in v for vendetta, when evie's boss shows her his collection of banned art. if the government ever goes utterly nuts, i will guard my copies of the lord of the rings and catch-22 with my life. they're mine.
i went to the anti-single payer tea party as a counter protester and wrote about the experience today. i believe we can still reason with the people enthralled by o'reilly. i refuse to feel hopeless and doomed.
what is your goal for this piece?