Jason M. Wester

Jason M. Wester
Birthday
June 24
Bio
My views are mine and mine alone. I reserve the right to be wrong, and I stand to be corrected. I appreciate honesty, authenticity, and independent, informed thinking. I try to enjoy the little things, but I'm not very good at it.

Jason M. Wester's Links

New list
JULY 12, 2011 2:21PM

Rebecca Watson's Misguided Boycott of Richard Dawkins

Rate: 2 Flag

 As a non-rich, heterosexual, almost-middle-aged white man, I've had it pretty good.  I've never thought to look over my shoulder to make sure I wasn't being trailed by a potential rapist.  It has never even occurred to me.  I've never received rape threats from people who didn't like what I'd written.  I've never had my concerns summarily dismissed as silly or ridiculous or invalid, at least in a sexist sort of way.  No, I've always swimmed in the waters of male, white privilege, and I acknowledge that, though I have worked hard, studied hard, to achieve more than my lower-class upbringing would seem to allow, I have, at many points in my life, benefitted from being male and white.  I never chose to have privilege, and I could not get rid of it if I wanted to, but I recognize that I have certain privileges based on my essential characteristics being valued more highly in my culture than other possible characteristics.  

It is not difficult for me to imagine the world in which Rebecca Watson lives, she being bold enough to express her views and concerns, views and concerns that don't exactly make her a darling in a Christ-haunted culture that counts atheists among the most untrustworthy, objectionable people.  On top of that, she is a woman who endures rape-threats and objectification probably on a daily basis, and yet she keeps going, a testament to her strength and determination.  

I find a lot to admire about Rebecca Watson, and indeed, I would love to get a beer with her and get to know her (but not at 4 am in an elevator to be sure).  The following should be read with all of that in mind. 

I do object to the vilification of men based on  essential characteristics, an ad hominem attack that adds nothing to the discourse.  I don't understand why it is acceptable in feminist circles to employ those sorts of attacks, and I find it quite troubling that such seems to be par for the course in those circles.   It seems to me that arguments should be addressed for what they are, rather than attacking them based on who wrote them.  What I now see as Dawkins' unbelievably bad argument about Watson's response in her now infamous video stands on its on as fallacious.  It would be fallacious no matter who wrote it.    

So, in many ways, after thinking about this issue, I've softened my stance toward Ms. Watson and I understand her point-of-view much better than I did in July.  

The following is the original post that shows my initial reaction to this controversy.  

Original Post:

Rebecca Watson
"Don't sexualize me"

I’ve found myself fascinated by last week’s non-controversial controversy that was reported by Tracy Clark-Flory over on big Salon about Richard Dawkins and Rebecca Watson.  For those who need a primer, I hesitantly recommend Clark-Flory’s write up despite her calling Richard Dawkins a “dick” (apparently completely unaware that she is using sexist terminology and thereby undercutting her feminist position). 

Once primed, you may want to follow the discourse via Watson’s video blog on youtube that started it all (and you may want to skip to the 4:00 mark unless you are interested in the various conferences she has attended), and then go over to PZ Myer’s wonderful blog Pharyngula and look for Dawkins’ offending comments that so ticked off Ms. Watson that she issued this post in which she stated that she would no longer avail herself of Dawkin’s very important work. 

I’m not a woman, nor am I Johnny Depp, so the experience of being hit on is quite foreign to me.  It has never happened to me, yet I can imagine that attractive women have to fend off that kind of “sexualizing” on a daily basis, and I must grant that, at least where Ms. Watson is concerned, it is a hardship.  I think I understand what women like Rebecca Watson want: They want to be taken seriously.  They want their ideas to count, and they want their sexual personas to count less than their intellectual personas.  If the shoe was on the other foot, if I was continually “sexualized” and never taken seriously as a human being with emotions, ideas, aspirations – if I was continually valued only for my sexiness – well, I wouldn’t like that.  And, as I understand it, such is common in the experience of women.  Their primary value is their sexuality, not their minds.  Watson is right to fight against that, to work to carve out a place in her community in which women and their ideas are taken seriously. 

But, here’s the rub.  For so many so-called feminists like Ms. Watson and Tracy Clark-Flory, making those arguments isn’t enough.  Men must be demonized in the process.  To illustrate that point, please take the time to read this screed by Ms. Watson in which she impugns Dawkins for being a “wealthy old heterosexual white man!”  As soon as I read it, I could no longer take Watson seriously because her brand of feminism loathes all things masculine, white, and heterosexual (and affluent, apparently).  In her world, it is okay to strike out against a man in such a way (and again, never realizing that she fundamentally undercuts her own position for gender equity).  Her’s isn’t a pro-woman position as much as it is an anti-man position, which, I hate to tell you, is misandry. 

Reading further into Ms. Watson’s rhetoric, I am struck with her ideology of victimization, her reluctance to accept responsibility for her own choices.  She didn’t decide to become an anti-male-style feminist.  That position was foisted upon her.  She had no choice.  She didn’t choose to boycott Dawkins.  It was Dawkin’s rather benign criticism that forced her to take that position.  Further, she claims that she was forced to take her anti-male positions based on the most extreme representation of masculinity: Anonymous hate mail threatening rape. 

Ultimately, it comes down to this:  Dawkins did what no feminist of Watson’s ilk can tolerate:  He criticized her.  That's what academics do, by the way.  They assume a position of privilege from which to speak, and when they speak, they speak critically. Watson is no academic, and she is clearly out of her depth if all she can do in response to Dawkin's charge that she stop whining is to do more whining. And I can hear it now, the privilege criticism, as if those doing queer theory or feminist theory don't speak from a position of privilege, as if Dawkins should be pilloried for having something he never asked for in the first place. 

Much like some Southern Baptists who boycott Disney because Disney refuses to hate gay people, Ms. Watson boycotts Dawkins for having the audacity to . . . criticize her (and, apparently, for being white, male, and rich).  Slamming Dawkins for being white and heterosexual makes her seem petty and childish, which, ironically, was exactly the point Dawkins was making in his comments.  We are talking about Richard Dawkins, whose work is excellent (and for which I believe he deserved to get rich, but I digress).  If you want to come to a better understanding about science, about skepticism, then the work of Dawkins are among the very best.  That she has, like a spoiled child, excommunicated Dawkins, calls into question her motivations.  Does she want to further the causes humanism, skepticism, atheism, or does she want to stick it to Dawkins?  Or, does she want to use Dawkins’ fame to further how own need for attention and noteriety?  In her videos and posts she is very keen on numbers.  This video is my most watched, etc.  It makes me wonder.   She is also a name-dropper par excellence.  I was on a panel with RICHARD DAWKINS, she said.  No one would have heard of this controversy if Dawkins' name hadn't been attached to it.  

Ms. Watson is clearly building a platform, but what will she use that platform for? 

I suggest that she could use her platform to work toward that positive change rather than as a platform to demonize those of us who happen to be male, white, and heterosexual.  

Update: Watson offers clarifications

Ms. Watson posted some clarifications about the situation with Dawkins on her blog, full of her usual snark.  They don't really clarify anything, such as why she feels it is okay to criticise a person based on his essential characteristics (white, male), but I've found that is par for the course for Ms. Watson.  She does not take criticism very well.  I posed that question to her in the form of a comment to her intial post in which she states that she is boycotting Dawkins, but that question, respectfully posed mind you, did not pass muster to enter the thread.  Only "you go girl" comments get published. The more stuff I read in the feminism vein, the more I see that as par for the course in that community.  It really is an echo chamber.  People like me, in a sense sort of dispassionate observers who see absurdity on both sides of the aise, well, we are jerks because we don't echo so well.

Update: No Sense of Proportion

The whats-appropriate-in-an-elevator-at-4am has proved to be a hot topic on several blogs.   This post by Amanda Marcotte makes the point that men who talk to women in elevators at 4am share behavioral traits with rapists.  On the same blog, the tactic of stoking rape-fear to increase the odds of a "yes" is highlighted.  

The Marcotte pieces are particularly disproportionate, if not outright dishonest, with regard to what actually happened as described by Watson herself. In Marcotte's world, an invitation to coffee is nothing short of "predatory" and they man offering the coffee was "cornering" Ms. Watson and implying violence.  She goes on to compare the man who hit on Watson to a rapist by means of shared strategy.  Citing this piece, Marcotte notes that elevator guy shares three of these characteristics with rapists (she added the bold to highlight the shared characteristics):

  • • are extremely adept at identifying “likely” victims, and testing prospective victims’ boundaries;
  • plan and premeditate their attacks, using sophisticated strategies to groom their victims for attack, and to isolate them physically;
  • use “instrumental” not gratuitous violence; they exhibit strong impulse control and use only as much violence as is needed to terrify and coerce their victims into submission;
  • use psychological weapons – power, control, manipulation, and threats – backed up by physical force, and almost never resort to weapons such as knives or guns.
  • use alcohol deliberately to render victims more vulnerable to attack, or completely unconscious.   

Apparently, for many many people, those comparisons, between being hit on and being raped, are salient, and in one sense I get it, and I actually learned a great deal about how some women feel in those kinds of situations from reading Marcotte.  I also think it is wrong and intellectually dishonest to lump in the guy who hit on Watson with rapists.  I believe Marcotte is guilty of creating a false analogy, which is a logical error in which shared characteristics are used to infer further comparisons.  To illustrate what I mean, I call on Dr. Phil, who provides 14 characteristics of serial killers.  I have highlighted in bold the characteristics that could  describe yours truly:

  • Over 90 percent of serial killers are male
  • They tend to be intelligent, with IQ's in the "bright normal" range.
  • They do poorly in school, have trouble holding down jobs, and often work as unskilled laborers. [I did mediocre work in high school, held a ton of crappy jobs and hated all of them]
  • They tend to come from markedly unstable families.
  • As children, they are abandoned by their fathers and raised by domineering mothers.
  • Their families often have criminal, psychiatric and alcoholic histories.
  • They hate their fathers and mothers.
  • They are commonly abused as children — psychologically, physically and sexually. Often the abuse is by a family member.
  • Many serial killers spend time in institutions as children and have records of early psychiatric problems.
  • They have high rates of suicide attempts.
  • From an early age, many are intensely interested in voyeurism, fetishism, and sado-masochistic pornography. [I was interested in my uncle's Playboy collection at an early age. Does that count?]
  • More than 60 percent of serial killers wet their beds beyond the age of 12
  • Many serial killers are fascinated with fire starting. [when i was a kid I thought fire was very cool]
  • They are involved with sadistic activity or tormenting small creatures. [when i was a kid, my cousins and I loved to throw cats into mud puddles to torment them.  Does that count?]

So, as you can see, I, with a little stretching, have 50% of the above characteristics.  Does that mean you need to call the cops and have them come search my basement? Nevermind that I haven't committed an act of violence on another person in my life.  Following Marcotte's logic, I'm a ticking timebomb. 

Marcotte and her disciples seem to have no sense of proportion.   They pounced on the rather benign incident of a nerd looking to get laid and turned him into a predatory criminal.   Sadly, I fear that for feminists of Marcotte's ilk, that's just a normal day at the office. 

Update:  Am I "derailing"?

 I enjoy criticism, and I always stand to be corrected, so I was particularly interested in the new comment below that accused me of making an "ignorant condemnation"by means of derailing the argument.  I may be.  What do you think, and in which ways am I derailing?  

Your tags:

TIP:

Enter the amount, and click "Tip" to submit!
Recipient's email address:
Personal message (optional):

Your email address:

Comments

Type your comment below:
A sensible and thoughtful article, thanks.

Watson has scratched out what little notoriety she has in association with the skeptical "movement", but to my mind she has never really displayed much in the way of critical thinking skills. (She is admittedly clever and funny, and VERY popular). The SkepChick website is a rather run of the mill feminist echo chamber with a bit on the side about homeopathy.

Outside of her popular base, as she is finding, her notions are falling under increased and varied scrutiny.

Dawkins has waded into the US bible belt to debate the fire and brimstone crowd, he's certainly not worried about this silliness. I can't believe feminists read Dawkins anyway, how would they tolerate the cognitive dissonance?
Nickel, thanks for the comment. I agree with you that she seems to lack critical thinking skills. I'd never heard of her before this so-called controversy, but then I saw that she does many panels and conference presentations, and I found that sort of strange because she is such a lightweight. I mean, when I read her anti-Dawkins rant, I was embarrassed for her for coming off as so childish and petty and unselfconscious in the worst sort of way.
Ms. Watson absolutely is no poster child for feminism! Stating this whack job in any way stands for what the majority of feminists believe is just as poor of a statement as any uneducated religious idiot has against atheists. I am both a feminist and fellow atheist and by no means think or believe that all men are out to rape me. I adore Dawkins and only in my wildest dreams would love to be stuck in an elevator with this man!
Jenn, thanks for that. It is nice to have a different point-of-view about this.
Hey guys thanks for sharing the video it was a nice thanks again for sharing, keep up the good work. But i have one issue as i have used the mkv file it is giving me trouble in the vlc player is there any other player for the same zarai taraqiati bank jobs
"This post makes the point that men who talk to women in elevators at 4am share behavioral traits with rapists."

Actually it doesn't. It makes the point that people who use alcohol, physical isolation, and boundary pushing/testing are employing tactics used by rapists. The man in question at the heart of "elevatorgate" did do these things. He didn't merely talk to her, he propositioned her, after she had already declared her intention to go to bed. And in the original video all she says is "Guys, don't do that." Apparently, employing tactics favored by rapists put up red flags for women.

You do a great job in the front half of your article down playing the justifiable fear of being in a weakened state (drunk), isolated from help, with someone that has shown a clear lack of respect for boundaries, while overstating the case of Rebecca's initial reaction. Then you make the same argument Richard Dawkins did, that there are worse crimes out there. I'm sorry, but just because people are killing each other doesn't mean we should stop prosecuting theft. Was this as bad as an actual rape? No. Did Rebecca (or others) ever say it was? No. Was it still an unwanted (She made it clear before she left the group she was tired and going to bed) sexual advance that made the recipient uncomfortable? Yes. And to top it off, you show us the very reason why Richard Dawkins was criticized for being a “wealthy old heterosexual white man!”. All of those things are markers of privilege. So we have someone with privilege telling someone with less privilege to suck it up because there are others that have it even worse. Go read "Derailing for Dummies" before you post anymore ignorant condemnations. The pushback against Dawkins mostly focused on the poor quality of his argument. His rich, white, hetero, cis-gendered maleness just made it more infuriating.
OliverWendellHolmes:

I don't disagree that the propositioning was bad form. But anywhere close to rape? No.

As far as derailing goes, you may be right. Surely rich white old men have a great deal of privilege, the most privilege, but they can't get rid of it, either. Thankfully, Dawkins' uses his privilege for the good of man and womankind. I don't understand why he commented of the minutiae of Rebecca Watson. It smacks of paternalism. He said, essentially, toughen up young lady. I think he recognized that Watson is an insufferable whiner and he wanted to help her. He should have just let her be. He should have avoided a paternalistic posture with her.

It all turned out very well for Ms. Watson (who also writes and behaves from a position of privilege, privilege she couldn't be rid of even if she wanted to), who saw her opportunity to jump on Dawkins' coattails, and she took it. But using her privilege to tacitly call for a boycott of Dawkins is wrong in so many ways, Dawkins' who has done more for atheism/science/skepticism than pretty much anyone I can think of off the top of my head. While Dawkins is doing the good work, Watson is whining and calling it feminism. Is it derailing to suggest there are more productive ways for feminists to push positive change than lectures about elevator etiquette?

Watson and others should have called him on his paternalistic patronizing instead of impugning him for his whiteness/age/etc. I could agree with that critique. But the guy can't help how he was born any more than Ms. Watson can help being an opportunistic white girl who is far more concerned about her reputation than any particular cause, it seems to me.
I was in an elevator once and this woman turned to a man next to me and said, "Can I smell your balls?"

The man replied, "Absolutely not!"

To which She replied, "Oh, it must be your feet then."

So, it goes both ways.
He asked her for coffee. Most likely it was a proposition, but can we be sure of that? Could it be that he genuinely found her interested and just wanted to pick her brain a bit more? He even opened with "please don't take this the wrong way," indicated perhaps he really did just want to chat with her.

And again, we have another person connecting this with a crime, and it isn't a crime, and all of you should get that through your logically-challenged skulls. Propositioning a woman is not a crime. Further, we have no idea how much of Watson's ending remarks he heard, blah, blah, blah. I'm sure after she shot him down he sulked off to his room and went to sleep. No one was harmed in any sense. The author of "curiosity aroused" felt "sexualized" and wanted to make an example of this poor schmuck. That's what this is about.
It's always been much ado about nothing. Rebecca Watson has not been “subjected” to anything more disturbing than any other public or semi-public figure endures from anonymous jackasses on the internet. The curious thing is the claim that one ought to be immune from some idiot on the internet calling one names.

What is most disturbing is actually that this “crisis” involving elevators and dirty words on the internet seems to be increasing Watson’s profile unjustifiably. She has somehow become a spokesperson for feminism and skepticism.

The brand of feminism espoused on Skepchick.com is no brand of feminism that I want to be involved with. There is no discussion permitted on Skepchick.com, unless the discussions are prefaced with proper supplications. People are banned from participation on Skepchick.com for mere polite disagreement, and men are routinely harassed. The website preaches a dogma, and only agreement is allowed.

With respect to skepticism and science, Ms. Watson is woefully lacking in qualifications. That is why the “Skepchick” appears at skeptic conferences and hardly talks about skepticism or science, but rather heads toward feminism at the earliest possible opportunity. Want to hear an hour talk on the nonsense some anonymous idiots sent to her on youtube? So worth the price of admission…

The “science” that she discusses is more along the lines of that a teenager would be addressing – easy pickings like “homeopathy.” She’ll read back to us the latest news article or wikipedia entry, and give us the startling revelations that homeopathy is bunk.

Frankly, I would, politely, oppose her invitation to further skeptical events because she doesn’t add anything worthwhile in the field of skepticism and science. For her to share the stage, like in Ireland where the infamous Elevatorgate occurred, with Richard Dawkins and AronRa is really not appropriate. I’m sure some kind of “Teen Skeptic” convention would be well-served by having Watson appear, but for serious discussions, I – for one – don’t need to listen to another hour of someone discussing feminism and giggling at her own jokes.

I’m sure I’ll get lambasted for this post, but I feel there must be more folks out there who feel the same way. I really have no person beef with Watson, as I’ve never met her personally. I’m sure she’s very nice. But, just as I wouldn’t pick her as a speaker at an astronomy science panel discussion, presentation on finance and banking, so too I don’t want to pay good admission fees to listen to her talks at skeptic/atheist event.

And, before someone suggests it – I know – I don’t have to attend – and I won’t, if she is on the list of speakers. Well, except maybe is it’s like an all-weekend event and she is one tiny portion of it that I can avoid by heading out to get a snack or browse the books and sundries for sale out in the hallways.
I have been searching for quite some time for information on this topic and no doubt your website saved my time and I got my desired information. Your post has been very helpful. Thanks.
florists
Excellent post and wonderful blog, I really like this type of interesting articles keep it u. I am really loving the theme/design of your web site.
Accredited Debt Relief
Trying to figure out where this lies between having hoop dreams and superfandom. I loves it, here's to hoping Aquille Carr gets a nice D1 scholarship.
bidcactus