Jeffrey Dach MD

Natural Medicine

jeffrey dach md

jeffrey dach md
Location
Davie, Florida, USA
Birthday
August 24
Title
MD
Company
TrueMedMD
Bio
Jeffrey Dach MD is founder of TrueMedMD, a clinic in Hollywood Florida specializing in Natural Medicine and Bio-Identical Hormones. Jeffrey Dach MD Offices of Willow Grove 7450 Griffin Road Suite 190 Davie, Fl 33314 telephone 954-983-1443.

JANUARY 28, 2009 12:37AM

Panties in a Twist Over Darwinism

Rate: 5 Flag

Darwin Was Wrong New ScientistJust by accident I came upon a blog posting by an associate professor of biology at the University of Minnesota by the name of Paul  Z Myers.  I don't know him, and he doesn’t know me.  Apparently he got his panties all in a twist from one of my articles on Why Darwin Was Wrong. (left image)  I must have touched a frayed nerve, because poor PZ devoted considerable time and energy attempting  a refutation which was unsuccessful, and ended with childish name calling unbecoming of a University Professor.

Unanswered Questions About neo-Darwinism

Firstly, PZ Myers makes the statement, "there are many unanswered questions" about Darwinian Evolution.  However, he doesn't list any.  Instead he makes a number of comments attempting to discredit the questions I proposed.  What are your unanswered questions PZ?   Tell us what they are.

Here are my statements followed by PZ’s attempted rebuttals:

1) How does random change (mutation) in the genome add information to a genome to create progressively more complicated organisms? It Doesn't.

PZ Meyers: "Errors in DNA replication and recombination can produce DNA strands that are longer and contain more information than the parent strand. This is trivial." 

747This comment by PZ reveals a complete lack of understanding of what it means to add information.  According to PZ Meyers, if he had a blueprint for a car, just by rearranging, deleting , or duplicating parts of the car plans, we could add the new information needed to build a nuclear power plant or a 747 Jet Plane.  Sorry PZ, but it doesn’t work that way.  It takes a whole room, full of trained engineers to draft a new set of plans for the nuclear power plant or 747 Jet.  Same for the human genome, PZ.  It can’t come up with a plan for the eye, clotting cascade or the endocrine system by rearranging the blueprints for a primitive one-celled organism that has a few ribosomes and endoplasmic reticulum.  This requires new information.  New information requires intelligent planning PZ, just like the room of engineers needed to draw up the nuclear power plant plans.

2) How is evolution able to bring about drastic changes so quickly? An example is the Cambrian Explosion. It Can't.

PZ Myers says:”His example of "quickly" is a span of about 15 million years. This may be news to some creationists, but that is a long, long time. If you're a young earth creationist, it's a period of time approximately 2,000 times longer than you believe the whole earth existed.  Dr Sachs needs to review some population genetics. We have nice algorithms that can be used to estimate how long it takes genetic changes to sweep through populations.”

A favorite ploy used by Darwinists like PZ Myers against their arch enemies, the young earth Creationists, is the  straw man argument, and a nice example is shown above.  A creationist will make the statement that the earth is 5000 years old, and then PZ will show carbon dating of fossils dating back to 100 millions years, or something like that, and expect applause from the Darwinist audience.  Yawn.

I am not a young earth creationist, and I don’t use creationist arguments.  As I said earlier, I consider valid the idea of evolution that life forms “evolved” from simpler to more complex and that we all have a common ancestor. 

My major objection, however, is that I don’t think the process of evolution could be fully explained as the random process required by neo-Darwinian Dogma.   This is really the heart of what is wrong with neo-Darwinism, and why PZ Myers  defends a scientifically bankrupt theory, while it still pays the bills at the University.

My comment about the drastic changes of the  ”Cambrian Explosion” was best said by Gerald Schroeder  who said, " 34 basic body plans that burst into being at the Cambrian, 530 million years ago, comprise all of animal life till today…Among the structures that appeared in the Cambrian were limbs, claws, eyes with optically perfect lenses, intestines. These exploded into being with no underlying hint in the fossil record that they were coming. Below them in the rock strata (i.e., older than them) are fossils of one-celled bacteria, algae, protozoans, and clumps known as the essentially structureless Ediacaran fossils of uncertain identity. How such complexities could form suddenly by random processes is an unanswered question."

Darwin Was Wrong New ScientistThese types of discontinuities found in the fossil record since Darwin’s days of 150 years ago were admitted by Darwin himself as being  damaging to his theory.  An entire new theory called Punctuated Equilibrium was invented to reconcile the discontinuitues in the fossil record with neo-Darwinism.

3) How could the first living cell arise spontaneously to get evolution started? It couldn't.

PZ Myers says: “It didn't. The first living cell would have been the product of millions (quick!) of years of chemical evolution. It did not arise spontaneously. “

Here we are given an honor.  PZ is alerting us to the latest politically correct scientific “belief” about something called abiogenesis or the origin of  one celled organisms from non-living matter.  PZ says the first life forms were created (!) by a method called “chemical evolution”.  Nowhere has this chemical evolution been actually observed,  duplicated, or even described,  and as a matter of fact, science has not a clue about how the first cell arose from non-living matter, but we are absolutely sure that it did.  This is a pure belief, which therefore qualifies as a religion,  and apparently this belief is a requirement for  associate professorship in biology.  Perhaps PZ could enlighten us further by telling us if this so called "chemical evolution" was a random or a directed process? 

PZ makes the final concluding paradoxical statement:

 “ The genetic code is not simply the product of 'random happening', nor do we need to invoke a designer to create it. It certainly is not self-evident that the universe is the product of intelligence — that is a conclusion derived from the abundant ignorance Jeffrey Dachs demonstrates in his argument.”

writing on the wallNotice that here, PZ is actually agreeing with me, that the genetic code, like all other codes and languages, could not have been created by random chance.  OK, this is agreed.  If we come across alphabet code or writing on the wall, we assume somebody wrote it.  It didn’t happen there by chance.

Left Image: Writing on the wall. PZ says, No need to invoke a designer. 

However, get this very next phrase.  PZ goes on to say that there is no need to invoke a designer.  In other words, just because we came across writing on the wall, we don’t have to assume somebody wrote it.  Why does he staunchly deny the designer of genetic code when all other examples of codes or alphabets have human designers?

HOW DID The Code GET THERE ? 

human embryoAfter conceding and giving away the “randomness explanation”,  what explanation is there?  I would suggest a designer of the coded alphabet  is the most reasonable explanation.  Apparently this is a politically incorrect position which would get one promptly booted out of the University biology department and into the cold Minnesota Night. 

Left Image Human Embryo: Who Designed This?

Not only that, but PZ now says that anyone who invokes a designer or in this case, an author,  for the writing on the wall, is an "abundantly ignorant person".  This illustrates the final phase of our typical Darwinist argument, the degeneration into childish name calling.

Random Mutation Cannot Explain Evolution

As pointed out by dissenting scientists over the years, natural selection acting upon random mutations cannot explain the evolution from simpler to more complex organisms. This is the crux of the problem with neo-Darwinist Theory.  Although this very valid objection has been raised by mainstream scientists and physicians who are interested in discovering new science to replace neo-Darwinism, this same objection has been raised by creationists who wish to replace evolution with creationism, and by intelligent design advocates who wish to advance their agenda.  

Defenders of neo-Darwinism like PZ Myers tend to lump all these people together.  They then use their nazi style intimidation tactics with personal smears intended to prevent any critque of neo-Darwinism.  A typical tactic of these fanatics is to label anyone who presents a critique of neo-Darwnism as a secret Creationist or Intelligent Designer plotting to overthrow the Public School System.  The arch enemy of PZ Myers is the Discovery Institute with people like Dembski, Dennet, Behe, Meyers and others engaged in a campaign to change the culture of America away from the scientific materialism of neo-Darwinism.  I am not a member of the Discovery Institute.  

Many Physicians Dissent for Neo-Darwinsm

Here is a list of another 300 physicians who publicly dissent from neoDarwinist Dogma.

Mainstream Scientists Who Dissent from Neo-Darwinism

1) James A Shapiro Ph.D. Professor of Microbiology University of Chicago: "Genome change arises as a consequence of natural genetic engineering, not from accidents."
2) Stanley N. Salthe Ph.D. Zoology, 1963, Columbia University.
3) Stuart Kauffman professor at the University of Calgary with a shared appointment between biological sciences and physics and astronomy.
4) Lynn Margulis Distinguished University Professor Microbial Evolution and Organelle Heredity Department of Geosciences at the University of Massachusetts

Jeffrey Dach MD
4700 Sheridan Suite T
Hollywood Fl 33021
954 983 1443


(c) Copyright 2009 Jeffrey Dach MD All Rights Reserved


Links and References

http://shapiro.bsd.uchicago.edu/21st_Cent_View_Evol.html
A 21st Century View of evolution  by James A. Shapiro
Professor of Microbiology,
Department of Molecular Genetics and Cell Biology
Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
University of Chicago

McClintock recognized that genetic change is a cellular process, subject to regulation, and is not dependent on stochastic accidents. The idea of internally-generated, biologically regulated mutation has profound impacts for thinking about the process of evolution.

To see the real-world evolutionary importance of built-in biological mechanisms of genetic change, we have only to consider the post-WWII emergence of multiple antibiotic resistance in bacteria. This phenomenon represents the largest and best-documented evolutionary experiment in the molecular biology era. Interestingly, when antibiotic use began, we had a robust theory of how resistance would evolve by modification of existing cell components so that they were no longer antibiotic-sensitive. This theory was confirmed by laboratory experiments. Nonetheless, when the basis of naturally evolving multiple antibiotic resistance was determined, the experimentally-confirmed theory was wrong. Resistance resulted from the presence of new biochemical activities in the bacteria, encoded by new transmissible genetic systems that could accumulate additional DNA encoding these resistance activities (35).

Indeed, it is now difficult to imagine how organisms that depend upon gradual accumulation of stochastic mutations could persist in the evolutionary rat race.

http://www.idnet.com.au/files/pdf/James%20Shapiro%20Boston%20Review.PDF
A Third Way. in the Boston Review James A. Shapiro 12/22/05

Localized random mutation, selection
operating "one gene at a time" (John Maynard Smith's
formulation), and gradual modification of individual functions
are unable to provide satisfactory explanations for the molecular
data, no matter how much time for change is assumed. There are
simply too many potential degrees of freedom for random
variability and too many interconnections to account for.

The neo-Darwinian advocates claim to be scientists, and we can legitimately expect of them a more open spirit of inquiry. Instead, they assume a defensive posture of outraged orthodoxy and assert an unassailable claim to truth, which only serves to validate the Creationists' criticism that Darwinism has become more of a faith than a science. ...Dogmas and taboos may be suitable for religion, but they have no place in science

Revisiting the Central Dogma in the 21st Century
James A. Shapiro
Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology
http://shapiro.bsd.uchicago.edu/index3.html?content=genome.html

Advantages of non-random searches of genome space at evolutionary crises
• Genome changes occur under stress or other conditions, when they are
most likely to prove beneficial;
• Multiple related changes can occur when a particular natural genetic
engineering system is activated;
• Rearrangement of proven genomic components increases the chance
that novel combinations will be functional;
• Targeting can increase the probability of functional integration and
reduce the risk of system damage;
• Rearrangements followed by localized changes provide opportunities
for fine tuning once novel function has been achieved.

http://shapiro.bsd.uchicago.edu/index3.html?content=genome.html

Lesson 4. Genome change arises as a consequence of natural genetic engineering, not from accidents. Replication errors and DNA damage are subject to cell surveillance and correction. When DNA damage correction does produce novel genetic structures, natural genetic engineering functions, such as mutator polymerases and non-homologous end-joining  complexes, are involved. Realizing that DNA change is a biochemical process means that it is subject to regulation like other cellular activities. Thus, we expect to see genome change occurring in response to different stimuli (Table 1) and operating non-randomly throughout  the genome, guided by various types of intermolecular contacts (Table 1 of reference 112).  These expectations open up new ways of thinking about the role of natural genetic engineering in normal life cycles and the potential for non-random processes in evolution.

There are no detailed Darwinian accounts for the evolution of any fundamental biochemical or cellular system, only a variety of wishful speculations. It is remarkable that Darwinism is accepted as a satisfactory explanation for such a vast subject—evolution—with so little rigorous examination of how well its basic theses work in illuminating specific instances of biological adaptation or diversity." Molecular biologist James Shapiro, "In the Details...What?" National Review, 19 September 1996, pp. 62–65.

"This is to be expected from the Creationists, who naturally refuse to recognize science's remarkable record of making more and more seemingly miraculous aspects of our world comprehensible to our understanding and accessible to our technology."

The point of this discussion is that our current knowledge of genetic change is fundamentally at variance with neo-Darwinist postulates. We have progressed from the Constant Genome, subject only to random, localized changes at a more or less constant mutation rate, to the Fluid Genome, subject to episodic, massive and non-random reorganizations capable of producing new functional architectures. Inevitably, such a profound advance in awareness of genetic capabilities will dramatically alter our understanding of the evolutionary process. Nonetheless, neo-Darwinist writers like Dawkins continue to ignore or trivialize the new knowledge and insist on gradualism as the only path for evolutionary change.

(Shapiro, 1997 Boston Review: Is Darwin in the Details? A Debate)

http://www.sosmin.com/evolution.html
University of Chicago biochemist James Shapiro wrote, "There are no detailed Darwinian accounts for the evolution of any fundamental biochemical or cellular system, only a variety of wishful speculations" (National Review, 9/16/96).

Cell Development Shows Evolutionary Pattern .
The following text was published in The New York Times, November 10, 1996. by James A. Shapiro

To the Editor: I find myself quoted in Michael J. Behe's Op-Ed article questioning Darwinian explanations for cellular evolution (Oct. 29), leaving the impression that I share his call for a return to religious explanations. This is not my position.

Darwinism and creationism are not the only ways to think about sources of biological function and diversity. The virtue of science is its ability to evolve concepts that render ''miraculous'' aspects of the world comprehensible.

Molecular biology has uncovered complexity in genome structure and cellular function. It has also revealed biochemical systems that cells use to restructure DNA molecules in ways that resemble our own genetic engineering. These systems introduce potentials for rapid genome reorganization and biological feedback into the evolutionary process.

Scientists have the task of exploring how far the operation of natural genetic engineering systems can provide novel ways to account for biological adaptations not explained by random mutation and selection.

James A. Shapiro
Professor of Microbiology
at the University of Chicago.
Chicago, Nov. 5, 1996

Against The Grain: 'There are strong indications of intelligent design'
Interview by Nick Jackson
Thursday, 8 February 2007 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/higher/against-the-grain-there-are-strong-indications-of-intelligent-design-435417.html

http://www.whither-progress.org/pages/evolution.php
Major Changes in Evolution Theory

INTRODUCTION

http://darwin-legend.org/html/Soren-Lovtrups-Rebuttal-of-Darwinism.htm
Søren Løvtrup's Rebuttal of Darwinism
Hiram Caton
Søren Løvtrup. Darwinism: The Refutation of a Myth. Croom Helm, Kent, England. 1987.

http://www.randommutation.com/darwinianevolution.htm
How to Do Your Own Darwinian Evolution Experiments with the Random Mutation Generator

You don't have to take anyone else's word for it - you can use the Random Mutation Generator to find out for yourself how Darwinian evolution really works.

by Perry S. Marshall

Microbiologist James A. Shapiro of the University of Chicago has done extensive research on this very question and has published a number of papers confirming that yes, there is an adaptation mechanism in DNA that is marvelously sophisticated. Mr. Shapiro has discovered that a protozoa, subjected to extreme environmental stress, can splice its own DNA into over 100,000 pieces (!), re-arrange them in a highly systematic fashion, producing new protozoa that inherit a new set of characteristics.

In other words DNA can be likened to a computer program that re-writes itself on the fly. In fact this is how our own immune systems adapt to a nearly infinite range of possible threats and ward off attackers - through this kind of sophisticated adaptation.

Mr. Shapiro published a fascinating paper in the Journal of Biological Physics called "A 21st Century View of Evolution." In this paper, the failed "Random Mutation" view is discarded and replaced with a much more sophisticated, engineered process. Instead of seeing DNA as a static database that is acted on by outside random forces, it is now seen as being more like a intelligent operating system that repairs files, corrects errors, and adapts to changing circumstances. It's nothing short of amazing.

Shapiro's work clearly shows that evolution, however it may be understood, is anything but a random process.

http://raytractors.blogspot.com/2008/12/james-shapiro.html
I looked, and the quote is accurate. at least Ray got that one right, even if he DID use it out of context Questioning the adequacy of Darwinian theory is something quite different from challenging the evidence for evolution. Our best defense against Creationism is a vital scientific study of evolutionary processes using the most complete molecular and biological information we can obtain. I attach a paper I published on this a number of years ago. You can find other, more technical papers on my web site.

Jim Shapiro

Unintelligent Evolution 
William A. Dembski
Conceptual Foundations of Science
Baylor UniversityWaco, Texas 76798 
Talk presented at the annual American Academy of Religion meeting, San Antonio, November 22, 2004

http://www.evanwiggs.com/articles/reasons.html#camexp
The late Stephen J. Gould, an ardent evolutionist and Marxist, said this about the fossil record: “The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology.” S.J. Gould, Evolution’s Erratic Pace, Natural History 86(5): 14, 1977.

Gould later stated: “The absence of fossil evidence for intermediary states between major transitions in organic design, indeed our inability, even in our imagination, to construct functional intermediated in many cases, has been a persistent and nagging problem for gradualistic accounts of evolution.”  S.J. Gould, in Evolution Now: A Century after Darwin, ed. John Maynard Smith, (New York: Macmillan Publishing Co., 1982)

Again Gould said: “I regard the failure to find a clear ‘vector of progress’ in life’s history as the most puzzling fact of the fossil record.”  S.J. Gould, The Ediacaran Experiment, Natural History 93(2): 14-23, Feb. 1984

“But we must concede that there are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of the evolution of any biochemical or cellular system, only a variety of wishful speculations.”

James Shapiro, Stuart Kauffman, and Lynn Margulis have raised similar doubts. But what are their alternatives? Certainly not intelligent design. Shapiro places his hopes in what he calls “natural genetic engineering”; in other words, organisms design themselves. But Shapiro has no account of how organisms of sufficient complexity can arise in the first place to do their own genetic engineering. As for Kauffman, he places his hopes in laws of self-organization and complexity. Yet a decade after he published At Home in the Universe: The Search for Laws of Self-Organization and Complexity (publication date 1995), Kauffman is still searching for those laws. And as for Lynn Margulis, she places her hopes in symbiogenesis, where the driving force behind evolution becomes organisms coming together to hybridize and thereby increase biological complexity. Though Margulis has argued effectively that symbiogenesis plays some role in biological evolution, she is far from showing that it is the missing key. In short, the proposals on the table for shoring up Darwinian theory with still other blind material mechanisms are even more speculative than what they are trying to shore up.

http://www.nbi.dk/~natphil/salthe/Critique_of_Natural_Select_.pdf
Analysis and critique of the concept of Natural Selection (and of the
neoDarwinian theory of evolution) in respect (Part 1) to its suitability as part of Modernism’s origination myth, as well as (Part 2) of its ability to explain organic evolution (update March, 2006) S.N. Salthe

Stanley N. Salthe
Ph.D. Zoology, 1963, Columbia University.
Professor Emeritus, Brooklyn College of the City University of New York Visiting Scientist in Biological Sciences, Binghamton University
Associate Researcher of the Center for the Philosophy of Nature and Science Studies of the University of Copenhagen.

So, with current neoDarwinian theory, we can claim that it does not model evolution, only short term survival from one generation to the next.

As to its ability to explain the evolution of organisms (as opposed to the evolution of gene systems), it has not, after some 60 years of development, delivered a very convincing mechanism. It cannot explain origins, or the actual presence of forms and behaviors. It can generally explain only the evolution of adaptive differences as results of historical contingency, for only one or two traits at a time. It is limited to historical explanations, as it acknowledges no evolutionary tendencies that are not the result of accident preserved in genetic information. History is the source of everything in this theory, and that is just too simplistic to be plausible in a complex material world. I think it could be said that, were there another theory of organic evolution, the neoDarwinian one, fraught with problems as it is, would have more  trouble surviving than it does.  As it is, it is the “only game in town”, largely because of the competitive activities of the  neoDarwinians themselves.

As added support for the viewpoint projected herein, I cite two of Richard Lewontin’s works. First, his The Genetic Basis of Evolutionary Change, (1974, Columbia University Press) has a discussion of the effects of linkage disequilibrium among genetic loci on the process of
selection that makes it seem highly unlikely that selection could be very effective in improving a trait using a more realistic model of the genome than is usually used. Recently he has produced a paper for the Santa Fe Bulletin [Volume 18 (1), Winter, 2003] which raises four  complications”
to the theory of natural selection that seem to me to cripple it altogether. For the mathematically inclined, there is also Fred Hoyle’s work, posthumously published as Mathematics of Evolution , Acorn Enterprises, 1999

Biology theory

     (Non-mathematical) Biology theory, focusing on development and evolution, and their relationship. I use operational definitions for development (predictable directional change) and evolution (the irreversible accumulation of historical information = individuation), which allows these concepts to be generalized.

      I am a critic of Darwinian evolutionary theory -- which was my own erstwhile field of specialization in biology. My opposition is fundamentally to its sole reliance on competition as an explanatory principle (in a background of chance). Aside from being a bit thin in the face of complex systems, it has the disadvantage, in the mythological context of explaining where we come from, of reducing all evolution to the effects of competition. I see this as morally vicious, if understandable in the genealogical sense that it serves as a myth congenial to Capitalism. Motivated thus, I have found that upon close examination there are many limitations on the power of Darwinian explanations. For example, it would appear that population genetics theory has been (for over 60 years) limited, IN GENERAL, to modeling changes only in single traits (see "Analysis and Critique of the Concept of Natural Selection" [here]). This limitation is no conceptual problem if we place Darwinian explanation in the context of developmentalism (see below), but then natural selection can no longer be the sole factor in evolution, but must function as a handmaiden to self-organizing processes, as suggested by David Depew and BruceWeber in Darwinism Evolving.

      I note further that the idea of natural selection must be among the fittest of ideas in our social climate. It has spread from evolutionary biology to immunology, developmental biology, psychology, economics, philosophy of science, sociology, information science, etc. It appears to be an idea that can adapt to any material whatever, driving out, in the process, ideas that were native in the various discourses (like instructional models in immunology). Being materially empty, it appears capable of explaining almost anything, and so we need to be cautious about its use. Is it a Borgesian cognitive poison?

http://www.pssiinternational.com/list.pdf
Physicians and Surgeons who dissent from Darwinism

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/index.php?command=view&id=2114

Doubts Over Evolution Mount With Over 300 Scientists Expressing Skepticism With Central Tenet of Darwin's Theory
By: Staff Discovery Institute April 1, 2004

SEATTLE – Since Discovery Institute first published its statement of dissent from Darwin in 2001, more than 300 scientists have courageously stepped forward and signed onto a growing list of scientists of all disciplines voicing their skepticism over the central tenets of Darwin’s theory of evolution and urging “careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.”

“A growing number of scientists around the world no longer believe that natural selection or chemistry, alone, can explain the origins of life, and while they are still a minority, they are a growing minority,” said Bruce Chapman, president of Discovery Institute. “It is an important day in science when biologists are bold enough to challenge one of the leading theories in their profession.”

During recent decades, new scientific evidence from many scientific disciplines such as cosmology, physics, biology, "artificial intelligence" research, and others have caused scientists to begin questioning Darwinism’s central tenet of natural selection and studying the evidence supporting it in greater detail.

The full statement signed by the biologists reads: “We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged.”

“Darwin’s shrillest defenders continue to claim there is no scientific debate and no legitimate scientists who question neo-Darwinian evolution and yet again that claim is shown to be false,” said John West, associate director of Discovery Institute’s Center for Science & Culture.

The list, started in 2001, continues to grow on a weekly basis. Biologists who have signed the list include prominent scientists such as evolutionary biologist and textbook author Dr. Stanley Salthe, and Giuseppe Sermonti the Editor of Rivista di Biologia / Biology Forum. The list of biologists also includes scientists from Princeton, Cornell, UC Berkeley, UCLA, Ohio State University, Purdue and University of Washington among others.

About Discovery Institute
Discovery Institute promotes ideas in the common sense tradition of representative government, the free market and individual liberty. Current projects include work in technology, science and culture, the economy, transportation, and the bi-national region of "Cascadia." Visit Discovery online: www.discovery.org.

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/kauffman06/kauffman06_index.html
STUART A. KAUFFMAN is a professor at the University of Calgary with a shared appointment between biological sciences and physics and astronomy. He is also the leader of the Institute for Biocomplexity and Informatics (IBI) which conducts leading-edge interdisciplinary research in systems biology.

Dr. Kauffman is also an emeritus professor of biochemistry at the University of Pennsylvania, a MacArthur Fellow and an external professor at the Santa Fe Institute. He is the author of The Origins of Order, At Home in the Universe: The Search for the Laws of Self-Organization, and Investigations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis
http://www.geo.umass.edu/faculty/margulis/

Lynn Margulis is Distinguished University Professor in the Department of Geosciences at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst. She was elected to the National Academy of Sciences in 1983, received from William J. Clinton the Presidential Medal of Science in 1999. The Library of Congress, Washington, D.C., announced in 1998 that it will permanently archive her papers. She was a faculty mentor at Boston University for 22 years.

She does, however, hold a negative view of certain interpretations of Neo-Darwinism, excessively focused on inter-organismic competition, as she believes that history will ultimately judge them as comprising "a minor twentieth-century religious sect within the sprawling religious persuasion of Anglo-Saxon Biology."[6] She also believes that proponents of the standard theory "wallow in their zoological, capitalistic, competitive, cost-benefit interpretation of Darwin - having mistaken him... Neo-Darwinism, which insists on (the slow accrual of mutations by gene-level natural selection), is a complete funk."[7]

 

Your tags:

TIP:

Enter the amount, and click "Tip" to submit!
Recipient's email address:
Personal message (optional):

Your email address:

Comments

Type your comment below:
Why is it that the underlying order presupposed by science "points to a creator"? Any answer one might give to this assumption would entail that said creator also "points to a creator" and so on, involving one in an infinite regress. Long before there was a Darwin to propose evolution or a Dach to dispute him there was an Immanuel Kant to write The Critique of Pure Reason outlining in a series of "logical antinomies" the ultimate futility of arguing about primary states/causes.
Sorry for being redundant. I guess St. Amant's comment was on another post.
The problem with Intelligent Design as a theory is that it adds no information. First, a designer should have a purpose. But what is that purpose? Either the designer has designed everything, from sickle cell anemia to multiple-drug resistant Staph strains (MRSA), in which case, maybe the designer is evil.

If we consider that the designer has designed only what we consider good, then there is no predictive power. He might design some better things, but lots of bad things will evolve on their own. Why shouldn't good things evolve, too?

And your analogy of the airplane from car parts is wrong because no one tolerates high error rates in engineers. Nature does. According to the Merck Manual, one of the best recognized sources of medical information, 15% of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Of those, 80-85% are due to genetic mistakes in the fetus. That means over 10% of all pregnancies are unviable mistakes. No car or plane engineer would keep his job with such a failure rate.

In contrast, Evolution is predictive. It suggests a cause for sickle cell anemia and MRSA. It suggests a mechanism to get from ground creatures to flying (look at the squirrel, the flying squirrel, and the bat.) Holes in the theory are constantly being plugged. New fossils are found.

Lastly, your argument that an genetic alphabet must be designed because you can't explain how else it came to be, is saying that God's hand is seen only in ignorance. The less you know, the more of God's work you'll see.
Just for the record, I am a practicing Christian. So for me it's not about questioning the existence of an intelligent author, or counterposing an evolutionist to a creationist or design paradigm, but about the limits of rational argumentation concerning first things.
Why do you keep referring to evolution as a "random" process. Talk about building a strawman. TWO STEPS: 1. Variation (random) 2. Selection (non-random). It works because it is a c-u-m-u-l-a-t-i-v-e process down a one-way road to improvement - whether that be building complexity or removing complexity. I think because you keep invoking evolution as a "random" process, you've branded it into your thinking and derived a fallacious argument from astonishment by erroneously claiming that this "random" process could not possibly produce all the complexity we observe in the world today. But we know different. We know it can and have demonstrated as much in the wild and in the lab. The literature is replete with empirical findings reflecting the rise (and loss) of complexity in organisms through this process. It is a fact - and it accepted by over 99 percent of the world’s biologists. Why would a theory enjoy such support from the experts if it were as “bankrupt” as you claim?
Dach: I have to throw a flag on that analogy of the 747 Jet you keep tossing about.

1. This claim is irrelevant to the theory of evolution itself, since evolution does not occur via assembly from individual parts, but rather via selective gradual modifications to existing structures [of biological organisms]. Order can and does result from such evolutionary processes.

2. Hoyle applied his analogy to abiogenesis, where it is more applicable. However, the general principle behind it is wrong. Order arises spontaneously from disorder all the time. The tornado itself is an example of order arising spontaneously. Something as complicated as people would not arise spontaneously from raw chemicals, but there is no reason to believe that something as simple as a self-replicating molecule could not form thus. From there, evolution can produce more and more complexity.

Source: CF002.1 Index to Creationist Claims
>Dach said: If we come across alphabet code or writing on the wall, we assume somebody wrote it. It didn’t happen there by chance.

>Left Image: Writing on the wall. PZ says, No need to invoke a designer.

>However, get this very next phrase. PZ goes on to say that there is >no need to invoke a designer. In other words, just because we
>came across writing on the wall, we don’t have to assume
>somebody wrote it. Why does he staunchly deny the designer of
>genetic code when all other examples of codes or alphabets have
>human designers?


Because codes and alphabets are inferred to have been designed by humans due to the fact that we compare it with a stored mental template, previously known examples of a human designed
object. Same for a building, or for your 747 Jet Plane. Other disciplines requiring design detection, from archaeology to forensics and even SETI, use templates KNOWN to have been designed by humas as their match criteria. So, tell me -
what do we use as a template for a design by the "intelligent designer"? How do we tell a "designed" genetic code from an undesigned, naturally occurring one, unless we have some KNOWN example of each type to compare? If you or any of the other ID folks have another way to detect design in biological systems, I think biologists would like to hear it. Or is it nothing more than the typical method of detection i.e., "I'll know it when I see it!" (also used in pornography). So the default position in the scientific world is not "It’s designed because it looks like it", but rather "a natural cause that we don't understand yet". The reason for this is that in all the thousands of years of modern human experience, we have never had any natural phenomenon turn out to be designed. Many things that at first seemed "designed by God" were later explained as naturally occurring – lightning, earthquakes, germs causing disease, etc. Nothing in ID gives reason to think that the current crop of "designed" candidates including genetic codes or molecular systems, will turn out any different. Because it looks "complex" and "purposeful" and then conclude that it's the result of an intelligent designer is nothing more than an argument from astonishment.
Dr. Dach - I enjoyed this post. Your comment :
"I would suggest a designer of the coded alphabet is the most reasonable explanation. Apparently this is a politically incorrect position which would get one promptly booted out of the University biology department and into the cold Minnesota Night." struck me as very sad. From your post and some of the comments, it appears that if one chooses to believe in a force greater than oneself, or to suggest that evolution is an incomplete theory, they are immediately lumped into the same category as those who believe the dinosaurs and Jesus coexisted. There is as much arrogance, rigidity, and intolerance in the academic scientific community as there is in fundamentalist Christianity, and it serves only to alienate a majority of the population. Sad.
A provocative post. Can't say I agree 100% with you, but at least we're raising the question here. I've been reading up on Darwin recently in anticipation of his bicentennial, and I think he would be horrified if saw how some scientists believe that his theories a)'prove' that G-d is not real and b) are infallibly correct and beyond debate or question. Yup, the old man opened up a whole new way of looking at the world and empowered much of the scientific progress we've seen. But perfect? We risk making a god out of a biologist.
" There is as much arrogance, rigidity, and intolerance in the academic scientific community as there is in fundamentalist Christianity, and it serves only to alienate a majority of the population. Sad."
Amen, Dustbowldiva (irony on purpose) Remember, most Christians are not fundamentalists, nor most agnostics or unbelievers radical humanists. Most of us live somewhere in the middle, trying to make sense of it all, able, unlike the fundamentalists and Richard Dawkins, to admit we don't have all the answers.
Your faith precludes any reason. If you subscribe to the God theory then no one can sway you. No disrespect for you or other believers, but, I don't know why the argument is always based on who, and not what or why. Even The most educated religious theoreticians will ascribe all in the beginning to God who for some reason is always pictured as one of us. The universe is so vast and we know so little the blind acceptance of the christian theory of life is just human arrogance at it's peak.
I refuse to accept that if something appears in print that it is fact. What separates the Bible from the National Equirer? Both are written to play to the whims of the writers and they share the concept that every word inside is the absolute truth. For me, I see that I don't know how or why life here is what it is. I can live with that. Darwin merely theorized how things might be. He never claimed to have all of the facts to prove that his theory was the end all be all of life.
When faced with the unknown it looks to me as though some are able to go on without the affirmation that all is ordered and done with purpose and others cannot function without that affirmation. Ultimately, neither Darwin nor God have covered every aspect to my personal satisfaction.
Forgive me for even attempting a comment here. I am neither a trained scientist, nor a theologian, not even a college graduate. So I am speaking from simply an emotive, experiential point of view.

This question was formed in my earlier, Catholic days - Where does the Creator come from? I understand there are problems with the Theory of Evolution - redundant, since it is called a theory - but it simply cant be answered by a Creative Force of some nature without a reasonable attempt to describe the genesis of the force.

Accepting the premise that when all else fails, the simplest answer is the best, I come back to some form of spontaneous generation of self-replicating chemicals. Not an easy concept to swallow at any level, but perhaps more so than a continuously exisiting force with an intellect capable of designing DNA molecules and all they have become.
So that I am clear, Jeffrey, you agree with my whole comment and you just abreviated it for convenience sake?
Or you only agree with a portion of my comment, leaving the section "but it simply cant be answered by a Creative Force of some nature without a reasonable attempt to describe the genesis of the force" out for some other purpose? I just want to be clear so that I understand your argument in the way you mean it. Please let me know.
Hate to admit this, but when I learned about "Darwin" in high school, that was the most boring week of my life, Even my teacher was bored and he was a science freak. :)

Great pic at the botton, Doc. Its it amazing, isn't it? The little thing looks like its waving "hi", Priceless! Spot on title, by the way! :D

Rated!
To assume that there was 'a creator' is like someone from a tribe in Africa seeing a man pull out a lighter from their pocket and 'create fire'. It's as if 'by magic' the fire leaps from their hand, they must be a 'god'. They are 'the creator'.

I have spoken to many people that are undeterred in their belief, or want, of a 'creator' that 'made' them and this planet, the solar system, the galaxy and the universe surrounding it. They believe in an 'ordered' and 'perfect' world and believe that someone, some entity, that oddly and ironically looks like us, 'created' this whole 'place'.

That in spite of the evidence strongly shouting of the existence of evolution and adaption amongst other living things, that there is no way that a 'created world' could allow such things to 'just change' by themselves.

Everything has an effect on what direction a living thing evolves. Cosmic rays have an effect, our radio waves and diets rich in toxins and chemicals do too. The number of genetic malformed children now hint at genetic manipulation and evolution gone wrong.

I also don't have any doubt in my mind that humans are related to animals. I see the proof every day!

People point to the existence of the planet earth as proof of some kind of 'creation', that the planet hasn't been hit by an asteroid or comet as further proof of some divine protection of some 'creator'. Both of those beliefs are overly simplistic and wrong. The only reason that the earth has lasted so long is pure chance due to the immense distances involved. Eventually, the earth will be hit. It's been hit before and continues to be hit every day by thousands if not millions of small objects. That debris rains down on us all of the time but eventually our luck will run out.

The universe is a violent place. Whole galaxies have been destroyed. Entire planets have been obliterated. Black holes exist and they consume massive amounts of material. Stars explode, planets break up and searing radiation sterilizes planets and whole galaxies.

As comforting as it may be, and I admit it does sound compelling to believe, that some benevolent entity watches over us, there is absolutely zero evidence to support that hypothesis. If there were a being watching over us, then why is there so much violence? Why did 'god' allow an old man to freeze to death in the next town over last week? Why did 'god' allow George W. Bush to invade Iraq and slaughter thousands and thousands of human beings? We are alone in this world. The perceived wrath of some omnipotent deity is meant to keep us in line, keep us under control. How could a deity allow the catholic church to continue to exist they way they have treated the Jews and children to name but two of their targets.

Your ridiculous car blueprint to 747 'evolution' violates so many natural laws to make you look like a fool for being so, dramatic. You thought yourself cute perhaps by putting it in this post. I'm not amused.

I'm not likely to change your mind but I would ask that you, and the others that think like you do keep your superstition and ignorant beliefs out of our schools and our government and laws. Religious beliefs have resulted in the slaughter of many trillions of people and the suffocating of untold countless ideas and knowledge throughout the ages.

The dark ages were a hellish time to live through. We have come too far to be wrenched back to the stone age...

I have been to Darwin's grave in London. I stood there as a couple, probably not unlike you, spat on his marker. Darwin had the intelligence, and balls, to ask the question 'did humans evolve'... I have seen the actions of humans that aren't as far on the evolutionary journey as some of us are and I am sickened by them, embarrassed and mortified by their ignorance and their arrogance.

I guess that in every evolving culture, it reaches a point where a group of people, driven by fear and superstition, seek to reverse the gains made by society. Those people are like the workers who threw their wooden shoes into the machinery and stopped the march of progress. Those shoes were called 'sabot'. The act was later termed 'sabotage'. You can commit 'sabotage' without throwing a single shoe.
Thank you, Jeffrey. It is important to me that I understand you as you meant, not as to what I might read into your comment. I appreciate your clarity.
>Dach said:
>Yes, we are all in agreement that Darwinian Dogma says evolution >is a two step process of >random mutation in the genome followed >by natural selection or survival of the fittest.

Then why not refrain from your repeated misleading statements that it’s a chance (random) process. It’s only part of the equation and those with little or no knowledge of the theory won’t be misled to believe that it happens by chance alone. Can all your future references to the process describe it as what it is: a cumulative process. Would that be too much to ask?

>However, this process is not sufficient to add new information, or >explain the evolution >from the simpler to the more complex life >forms.

Don’t be obstinate. We have ample evidence where there have been instances of new information added to the genome. But it’s probably useless going any further with you in this “no new information” argument. In my opinion, it’s essentially meaningless discussing it with you guys because 1) you rarely if ever offer up a measurable definition of information WRT biological organisms and 2) when you do come up with a definition, you define it in such a way that insertions, duplications, mutations, etc are all declared NOT to be an increase of information. However insertions, duplications, mutations, etc, are exactly how DNA changes over time. So, based on your guy’s definition, it isn’t possible to generate new information - but then neither does evolution require it. Because I could come up with a pathway to change the DNA of a bacterium into a human, however it would involve the mechanisms that you guys have declared are just rearrangements of existing information.

>For example, if we use a random number generator on the >complete works of Shakespeare, >we will eventually change the >letters so that the text becomes unreadable. The result of >random change in the text is called noise which eventually causes >loss of all information. Same for the genome. By introducing >random change, this cannot lead to more useful information, it >can only introduce noise in the form of harmful mutations which >are in fact genetic diseases. Adding natural selection cannot alter >the underlying fact that random alteration in the genetic code >introduces noise. To then assume a natural process can then >“select” from all the noise to make new information is what I >would call magical thinking, same as expecting to write >Toynbee’s History of Western Civilization after applying a >random number generator to Newsweek, and selecting the proper >phrases after the letters have been randomly changed.

We take the text in Newsweek and mutate it. We take another copy of the original text and mutate it too. We do it a million times. Then we take each of these once-mutated texts and mutate them. We let the fittest survive. How do they survive? Apparently the text that makes the most sense in English is the fittest. Who decides what makes sense? In Darwinian evolution, nature decides. So out of the one million mutations we take 10 which actually make sense. For example 'The quick brown box jumped over the lazy dog' may survive. We select 10 fit versions and continue to evolve. I have no doubt that if we perform these iterations for long enough the text will mutate into the first sentence from Toynbee’s HoWC and I have no doubt some natural living organism might mutate into a better one, given enough time.

p.s Noise does not always destroy a signal. There are situations where adding noise to a system enhances its performance.
"In cancer, an advanced specialized cell population in the body undergoes transformation into primitive cells that use anaerobic respiration."
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that cancer was caused by a single cell replicating uncontrollably. And I also thought every cell in my body was capable of anaerobic respiration under oxygen poor conditions. Just like normal cells, cancer cells in a solid tumor resort to using anaerobic respiration under the oxygen poor conditions inside the tumor.
Hmmm.... I see how your debate style works; If you feel you have a response to a post you reply and if not you delete it. I have become accustomed to this sort of thing so I am prepared to repeat yesterday's post and let your readers decide whether it constitutes belligerence worthy of censorship...

posted yesterday ~7pm:

"Science is not concerned with the “why” question which only diverts time and energy away from the main goal which is to master the material world and reap the benefits. When we ask the “why” question, we are no longer engaging in scientific work."
-Jeffery Dach

This is without a doubt the most ignorant and inverted definition of science I have encountered. The question "why?" is the heart and soul of science. It is in seeking the most fundamental answer to this question that the greatest benefits of science, both material and intellectual (dare i say spiritual) have been achieved. Certainly there are strands of investigation that don't care about the question why, that treat the laws of nature as a black box, but this is not science but rather engineering. I have nothing against engineering, it is a particularly useful human enterprise, but to reduce science to the mere seeking of material advantage is a horrible mistake. Science is and has always been the search for truth. It is restricted to the material world only in that it is restricted to those elements of truth which can be observed and disproved. If god were to come down and part the seas, then scientists would consider him an eminently material object, and would make every effort to understand him. Dr. Dach implies that science, in its material persuit, does not strive to answer the philosophical questions of "why" which he is most concerned with such as "why are we here". What he fails to realize is that this is the exact goal of science, and that he is simply unwilling to accept the answers which science provides
To restate my position, the major criticism of ToE is the inability of a random process to explain the new information needed for the transition from simpler to more complex organisms. Adding natural selection does little to solve this problem.

Let me offer a thought experiment: Imagine a computer program. It's represented in some language, and it has some functionality and structure. The information content of the program can be measured, as with all programs, with more complex programs containing more information than less complex programs. Let's put our program in an environment in which (a) copies of it will be created, (b) some of the copies will have small random changes made to them, and (c) all of the copies will be evaluated by some measure of how "effective" they are. Some of the copies will be saved and some deleted, the filtering process being influenced by the measure of effectiveness, and the process repeats. It's easy to see in this thought experiment that some copies will be more complex than the original program we started with, and thus they'll contain more information.

Your statement above would seem to rule out this thought experiment. But of course is more than a thought experiment--it can be verified by any undergraduate in a computer science program. I think that your statement is thus wrong.
Thanks for the pointer, Jeffrey. I didn't that there was disagreement among biologists (or in related fields) about the adequacy of random mutation plus natural selection as an explanation for evolution. I don't think Shapiro's work supports your conclusions, but I'll have to read more closely and see.

For what it's worth, I'm not intimidated by biologists, neo-Darwinists or otherwise. I'm sometimes impressed. The difficulty I'm having in this discussion is that neither of us is a biologist, and the simple analogies we're using seem to break down only in the biological details. (For example, you say that my thought experiment doesn't work because of a mismatch between my computational assumptions and biology, but that objection applies just as much, if not more, to your thought experiments with airplanes and magazine articles.)
First, on the political side of things:

The neo-Dawinists are dogmatically clinging to the old school, while screaming "creationist", or using nazi style personal attacks at any scientist who engages in progressive thinking.

I've searched around the Web a little bit, and I haven't seen anyone calling Shapiro a creationist or attacking him personally, certainly not professional scientists. Have you? As far as I can tell, there's just disagreement.

Second, on the thought experiment side of things:

Let's say the simple one celled organisms are represented by a lowly computer virus, and the more complex organisms higher up on Darwin's tree (primates etc.) are represented by the Microsoft Office/ MS Windows platform.

I don't see how your specific computer virus analogy is relevant. The argument can't be "Random variation plus survival of the fittest doesn't add new information," because it actually does, in the case of computer programs. This doesn't happen to work with Microsoft Windows viruses, but it's straightforward to build computer programs and simulation environments in which this can be seen. Computer scientists look at these sorts of problems in a few areas, including autonomic computing and genetic programming.
I'm not making any claim about validating Darwinian evolution; I'm just observing that it works in computer simulations and is relatively well understood. The reason this isn't validation, in case it's not obvious, is that, for example, Lamarckian evolution can be simulated in computer programs, and my understanding is that this works, too.

What I am saying is that a process of random variation (that is, application of mutation and crossover operations) to the computer program equivalent of a genotype on a population of individual programs, followed by a selection process carried out on that population, can produce new individuals that are fitter on average and carry more information than their ancestors. How the information is increased depends on the specific operations that are involved, but the intuition is that some combinations simply produce programs that are bigger than their ancestors and thus require more space to store.
No, that's not what I said, but it's hard to translate these ideas without my knowing how much background you have in the area. Here's another shot.

Darrell Whitley's paper, A Genetic Algorithm Tutorial, gives a good introduction to the area. Genetic programming, roughly speaking, is a special case of genetic algorithms in which the targets of evolutionary computation are programs rather than arbitrary data structures. Then read the first 7 sections of Claude Shannon's paper, A Mathematical Theory of Communication, and consider the problem of encoding individual programs as if they were to be passed over some communication channel. That's it.
Sorry, I didn't have time to read all that, but I have to say, I had no idea panties could involve. I mean, that takes RNA and DNA and riboflavins and stuff and I didn't even know those were IN underwear to make the evolution of panties possible. I wonder if the original pair of panties was just a single cell, which would have made it difficult to get into them if you think about, unless they were a pre-cambrian thong or something...