Metaphor of the week - Alex Jones comparing politicians to child molesters luring kids into a van with candy. The old bait and switch. Change you can believe in.

I should have pulled the lever for Ron Paul. At least his tune doesn't change.

Yeah, maybe you shoulda!

And you shoulda voted for George W. Bush and Dick Cheney…because their tunes didn’t change either…although I would prefer “They also were too ignorant and cowardly to make adjustments either.”

Me…I will vote and hope the person I am voting for has enough sense not to be shackled by principle or promises…and will do what has to be done to get the most out of whatever situation he/she finds him/herself in after election. That is what I see as real "moral consistency!"

But that’s just me!

No, Bush and Cheney's tune didnt change. They never backed done from torture and spying. Never apologized for depleting the budget surplus and doubling national debt in 8 years. They were consitent. At no point did they apologize for the electronic spying The Unpatriotic Act enabled, for getting phones companies to break the law handing over phone records then pardoning them, or suspending habeus corpus with the Military Comissions Act of 2006, removing the right to a fair trial, attorney, knowledge of what you are accused of. Bush and Cheney were extremely consistent destroying our consititutional rights. And Obama who criticized all of this pre-election has virtually identical foreign policies to Bush and Cheney, and has not turned back any abuse of power.

"I am voting for has enough sense not to be shackled by principle or promises"

Then you are in luck. There are only a handful of people in Congress who have principles or keep promises.

Institute a draft for every male of 18. You'll have protests again.

I wish I'd pulled the lever on Ru Paul. xox

The last draft was the last time Democrats protested a Democrat. Now I literally know people who thought war was murder, but now somehow justified. I even changed my position on it at one point, wanting to be rid of the Taliban and Hussein, then realizing it was about money, after we basically refused to leave, but it was not after any election. If something is right or wrong, it means for either party and any politician. Elections arent politics they are puppetry. And we can only guess at Guipettos identity. Most like the people who run things are barely known. Forget Bernanke and Geithner, who are pulling their strings? They aren't rich enough to be in control of the economy.

This line says it all: "If the parties were maternal and paternal figures in the past, now they are one giant transsexual." Bravo!
R

Well at least most of the people here wonder what the hell Obama is doing. I know someone in a "Peace group." Apparently they haven't been very busy lately. The war's slipped their mind. They finally got Bush out of power, which is the important thing. Not actually reversing his policies. And people are upset about Lieberman? Why, because he changed labels? Is he that far to the right of Obama? Personally, I like moderates. Obama is basically a war mongering corporate lacky. How does that differ from W?

Talk is cheap…getting things done ain’t.

Seems to me if making the needed changes to make this a better country and world were as easy as some of grousers here in OS want to pretend it is…they would be getting themselves elected and making ‘em.

But it is much more fun to sit and lambaste others for not doing what most of you folks would not be able to do if you were in office.

Maybe our next New York City meetup should be a protest march? Maybe we should have them monthly?

Someone should emerge as the new Phil Ochs. Most of his words need not be changed.

OESheepdog is absolutely right. The Vietnam War protests only gained momentum when the marriage and grad school deferments were abolished. Implement the draft for men and women. That should do it. People can learn what conscientious objection means as well.

Ok, so Obama has the White House and a healthy majority in the house and senate, as opposed to Georgw W Bush and Bill Clinton who got things done with a minority vote in Congress.

Yes it is easy. 80% of the country wanted us out of Iraq. If we aren't leaving there like he promised in his campaign, and if the Democrats that won control of Congress keep funding the worst forigne policy move in years in terms of Americas standing abroad, I have to assume they are all on the take of Honeywell and Boeing. We know they are on the take of Wall Street after massive bailouts no real checks on bonuses, no transparency to the bailout, the Fed or Treasurys actions. Barrack is just a tanned version of George W Bush. And Congress useless. How can you have a majority and give billions to AIG, GM and Wall Street with no concessions, and escalate wars your own voters are firmly against, and call and HMO stimulus package reform for the people unless you are bought and paid for like a $10 crack whore?

Maybe he just didn't have enough experience to get anything done. Congress does. They have tons of people to help him get majorities. To make some concessions to pass sane legislation. The Point is NO ONE WANTS OUT OF IRAQ IN CONGRESS. Except a handfull, and at least one of them is a Republican, though he's really a Libertarian against all overseas bases.

Is there any reason whatsoever for a Democrat to vote for Obama again in the next primary, unless his his only challenger is The former Governor of Illinois? Why should a medical reform bill include a trillion dollar gift to HMOs, forcing 20 or 30 million new customers to buy from them? Compromise is supposed to be with other congressmen to get them to pass a bill, not with HMOs who I never voted for and have no fucking say in what bills Congress writes or passes. People on Fox would object to him donating his liver to Bill O'Riley, but he is giving HMOs things Republicans are opposed to. So if the right is opposd to forcing people to buy insurance and the left is for it, who is representing the greedy corporations on this exactly?

Grandma, if anything was accomplished by Vietnam is was ending the draft in this country forever. It is not politically feasible. People would burn down the White House and Capital building if there was another draft. You dont make insane legislation to get better representation. You pressure your representitives to fucking represent the people who put them in office. Now, I expect Republicans to go for low taxes and low spending. That's what their voters ask for, and they abandonned that for 8 years. But I dont expect Democrats to fatten the wallets of HMOs, bankers, Boeing, GM, AIG and anyone else with a table at a $10,000 a plate dinner. I expect them to REPRESENT or get the fuck out. And I expect their voters to rip them a new asshole when they don't. We have one party. They talk different, reflexively oppose whatever the other does, but when in power, run things identically, are owned by the same masters, give slightly different justifications, but are not representing anyone but their masters. And CNN is silent. The networks talk about sleeveless dresses. Fox foams at the mouth, which is hard to understand because they did manage to get a Republican in the White House after all.

I don't really believe in reinstating the draft, but what would it take to build a genuine anti-war movement? I feel hopeless.

Only four people on planet earth get to call me grandma and two are too young to pronounce it. Please call me Red or Mary Jo. Consciously or not, you are condescending to me.

I wasn't trying to be condescending, I was simply taking part of your name for identification and weren't aware you were ashamed of being a grandma. But this IS condescending - if you don't want people to call you Grandma, don't put it in your handle, Einstein.