not interested in stupidity either. an important piece Jodi, don't know what the short term answer is though. hope you get a good meeting though.

What a good mom you are :) Thanks Jodi!

Why on earth would this be taught in prekindergarten? Birds and bees...literally...would be more like it. Wow. Brainwashing. I'd like to know what else they're indoctrinating the young innocents with...

Jodi, I understand your dilemma, and empathize. It sounds as though you're doing what needs to be done by patiently countering their stupid superstition. And even though she's in school, it sounds as though any really learning will have to come in your home; your daughter is luckier than most, who don't have parents like you and your husband.

What a waste of your and your daughter's time. I'm sorry.

My home started into fundamentalism when I was about 6 or 7; we got pulled from Halloween activities and several assignments which were deemed unfit for Christian kids (or whatever). Had the "Heather has Two Mommies" controversy been going on, I have no doubt we would have gotten pulled out for that too.

People like my parents, with their bluster, made a schools change (generally not for the better, in my opinion, but change nonetheless.)

Blessings on you, Jodi Kasten. It's people like you, who actually care enough to take a stand, that help make a positive difference. I know that the same options don't exist for all parents, and it's a highly personal decision on how we handle the education system on behalf of our kids - but thank you for doing what you do.

As much as I want to believe that you are a strong, determined woman who can institute change in the world, I think you're whistling in the wind on this one.

One alternative to pre-K may be regular play groups with like-minded families. There must be some people in Jacksonville who think like you do and have small children.

My heart aches for you. Really.

Just makes me shake my head with disappointment. You two are good parents to your children, and though she may have learned and repeated some nonsense from "school" the lessons from home are hopefully more likely to penetrate and remain. Strength and patience to you during your confrontation with stupidity.
-The schools with deliberate misspelling make my skin crawl, but the one with 13 on the clock takes the cake for me on this one. Wow!

It might be partly developmental. Tyler has become very interested in the genders and she has been in daycare since she was two. She is now insisting on girl colors for clothes, accessories and introduced her father to her "boyfriend" when he picked her up from school last Friday. He was horrified. Her school is not religious but has Kidz in the title ;0) Most of her teachers are very maternal and recent Hispanic immigrants. I am sure they are working long hours for very little pay and feel guilty about that. So it is unlikely that anyone other than the director has the academic credentials. Tyler is in kindergarten now but learned all that was required in Pre-K. She had her behavioral screening BEFORE Kindergarten so I get your frustration. It seems she is stubborn and does not always listen to others (I have no idea where she gets that) but she is doing better at sitting still and following rules. She still doesn't like it much but she does it. That ought to be enough. The problem is that teachers want to see children liking that ;0)

Can't tell you how much I love your post; it speaks to so very many issues. First, I think it's a riot that it's considered "homeschooling" to keep your kids out of school until kindergarten. You were right the first time. I think free preschool is a great idea for people who are working or who are poor and uneducated (and therefore aren't engaging with their kids intellectually), but for someone in your circumstances, the longer you can keep them out, the better.

Your writing shines. You are so funny. Just had to mention that.

About the point of this post--the homophobia--sigh. I think a talk with management is a great idea. As your child gets older, though, I'm not sure I'd pull her out for anything. I like it best when kids are there to question/challenge the assumptions coming from teachers. As a teacher myself, I genuinely love when a thoughtful kid challenges my assumptions and makes me think. But I suppose most teachers don't. sigh. They refer the kid to special ed for an ADHD check or whatever.

Keep on keepin' on. You are a fabulous mom.

You are one good momma, and that Man is a keeper, too. Your daughter is going to grow into one fine woman DESPITE the efforts of her Montessori teachers. Our Montessori also had Christian undertones but it never went further than singing Johnny Appleseed before lunch. They welcomed children of all backgrounds, taught and celebrate religious traditions from around the world, and one of the 3 &4 yr. old teachers was part of a 2 mommy family. It was, for us, the perfect reflection of what a spiritual life should be. I am surprised that your school can have anything resembling religious education if they are getting state funding. And what kind of brainwashing disguised as singing is going on in that place? You go Jodi, get feisty with them.

Dave, a fullback for Air Force, was a very large black fellow and a friend of mine (odd pairing I know but he liked smart asses). My grandmother was coming to pick me up one time and I knew Dave was going to be there. My grandmother was a very casual user of the words "chocolate drops" and the like (but not nigger to my knowledge) when referring to blacks and I was cringing at the thought of them meeting.

I explained to Dave what her mentality was and Dave said he had no problem with that at all. He knew people from that era had that sort of mindset and it was not necessarily one of malice. People are always going to be taught bullshit and some will question and some will not. Still up to the individual to determine what their heart is like because everyone of the face of the earth is biased to one degree or another on something.

It's not so much what you're taught as to whether you choose to think.

And besides, we teach every child it's good and godly to put money ahead of people and no one thinks a damn thing about that.

Oh - And I forgot to comment on that Emily Osment ad. I am off to email those Disney folks because that is beyond disgusting and I think our Hannah Montana and Radio Disney days are now over.

Indoctrination scares me. My children pre-schooling, one religious [Congregationalist] never came home with the social viewpoint you describe. You and your husband's vigilance and love will trump convoluted curriculum.

I didn't realize that tax dollars were going to non-secular programs for pre-k. Crazy. Great post.

It might be that your daughter got her indoctrination from a fellow student, though. Both my 4yos came home with wildly inaccurate tales from school at one time or another.

This kind of thing makes me outraged at our city. As someone who's trans, queer, and an LGBT activist, I know the struggles well of the gender binary our kids are forced on believing. I know we live in the south, I know it's bound to be an issue, but why is it that so many good schools are Christian based? I went to Episcopal until I graduated high school. I tried started a gay-straight alliance and was only given one meeting, in which the Father told us it was an issue. He said if this kind of thing was bothering anyone, to go to him instead of have a group about it.

fight the good fight. You sound like a terrific mom.

It's amazing that kids are forced to learn earlier and earlier and seem to be dumber, not your kids, just kids in general. I think that if you don't nurture a healthy imagination then all you are cranking out is automatons. Keep your kids at home and let them run a little wild and color outside the lines.

But that's just my humble opinion.

It is more than scary that Florida pays for religious pre-school. What if a child is Jewish or Muslim? Where would they go to school? Anyway, you have my sympathies. I am one of those that went to pre-school, Greenwood Day Camp, I'll never forget it and still got a D in conduct in 1st grade. I, too, wanted to meet other kids in the classroom and look out the window when I heard a siren.

But, there is hope! I graduated from college Cum Laude!! Your kids will too!! And, I agree with many others... What a great mother you are!!!

Amen! We are in the torrents of Floridian public/ Cheese-us (I love this more than words can say) school stuff right now too. Apparently the thin line between hyperactive feral child and genius child doesn't really get addressed and they get slammed together in the middle.
I'm so glad that you are nipping this homophobia in it's uptight ass. Unfortunately, it's alive and writhing within the public schools as well. Thank you for standing up to it in your community!

I tried to prepare my kids for the public school system by reminding them that teachers are there to teach specific subjects. "If you have questions about things other than math and science, you should talk to me or mom about it", was always my instruction. Because I DON'T want the teachers to be instructing my children on LIFE - they ( the teachers ) are not hired for that. That's MY job. I'm grateful, too, that my kids had no problem asking us about stuff like this. Made it easier for us to show them how much people are the SAME.
Stick to your guns, lady. SGC can be deprogrammed as well, she is still young.

You are right. This is frightening. My daughter will be vigilant, too, with her daughter but how would she see this coming? Thanks for the heads up.

bbd - I actually have an update! Upon confrontation, the two managers expressed horror and dismay. The teacher was questioned and the incident was couched in some sort of "kissing" problem that happened when a child kissed another child.

They made assurances education about sexual orientation is not part of the curriculum. The Man then gave them the "You're On Notice" look and told them that future stunts such as this will result in us pulling SGC out of the school.

Julie - Thanks. I am telling this story for obvious reasons, but also one that isn't so obvious. I'm a southern, white, middle class mother of four with a belief in many religions and denominations. (Okay MOST religions and denominations. I'm a big fan of bonfires and the moon.)

I want the message to go out, far and wide, that there ARE women like me who will fight for gay rights and an end to bigotry. When someone tells us who we can love - they tell EVERYONE who they can love. I long for the day when we can marry anyone we choose. Until then, I can at least use what little power I have to expose the fact that the state is paying for this "education."

Myriad - I am not satisfied with their explanation of why this came up. We'll have to see if this is a problem again.

Floyd - I've never been thrilled with the level of education my older kids are getting, even in the magnet schools. The best I can do there is choose their schools as wisely as possible and be very involved. However, when they are little like this, we are at the mercy of these private daycare centers. God only knows what else is going on over there. (pun intended) Hopefully she'll figure out how to sit down and be quiet in a classroom setting and learn everything else from us this year. Too bad there's no spam filter on kids.

Owl - What scares me about this is how easy it would have been for us to never have known.

Julie - With two kids already in the middle school system here, I am well aware of the futility of fighting the system. I think that nothing changes if we don't make noise, though. I sent the URL to the Florida Department of Education. I thought it was important to see the photos. Ha!

Commcouns8 - My blood pressure raises 10 points every single time I see that school.

Dorinda - I also thought that it might be the other kids at first. We questioned her pointedly about who taught her that. She said that at least four times, "One boy and one girl." As you know, here in Florida "One Man and One Woman" is the battle cry for the "Marriage Protection" movement. She clearly said that her teacher had taught her that and this morning they admitted it. So, hopefully we've sent a good message.

I also have the feeling that my kids may get their "behavioral issues" from their Mama. ::blush::

Lainey - The real kicker is that if I wanted her to go to school full time, rather than 3 hours in the morning, it would cost $180 per week! If I wanted to put Pudge in as well, it would be $425 per WEEK to put them both in full time. I'm better off waiting two years until both of them are in school to work!

mamoore - I usually don't pick fights, but I went to the mat on this one. We'll see if they got the message. I don't know if Emily Osment's record is distributed by Disney, but she sure as hell is on the television every afternoon with my girls sighing in admiration.

Harry - I truly hope that what my kids are taught at home can counterbalance the b.s. they pick up in the outside world. Especially, as you point out, that people are more important than money.

Chuck - I really hope that what I say will mean more than what these people teach her. I guess that is the best any of us can hope for.

wildmarjoram - That was our first thought as well. But, as you can see above, it came directly from the teaching staff. Sad.

Jackson - I'm very encouraged to hear from someone here in Jax. It does seem to be the general feeling in all of our schools that the status quo should be preached loudly in all forums and fights for truth or equality should happen behind closed doors. It seems like a fundamental lesson for all children to learn the beauty of the individual rather than the gender role or orientation. Thanks for commenting.

ocular - Just wait until she tells the teachers about "Moon Meals" - the completely white and yellow meal we have on full moon nights. That'll make her popular!

MAWB - I understand the logistics of the facts. Most of the preschools and daycares here were already Christian based before the VPre-K program was introduced. However, I think they could save that business for the full-time kids.

rosie - Glad to see you! I know you know where this is coming from, my I-10 neighbor! I was schooled in Gulf Breeze and the culture of enforced religion ran wild there, too. Damn, it's hard to be a grown-up!

Bill - I think I need to teach her some new songs. That'll fix them. She is already well-versed in Erasure tunes. Hee hee hee.

Mary - We have to speak early and often to children about the rights of others. Racism, sexism, gender issues and general humanity can't be trusted to the educational system.

Thanks to everyone for your comments. The help, love and advice I get here on OS fuels me up to fight these fights. MamaPower!

GO get 'em Jodi!

Well done as usual, Jodi. I don't know what I'm angrier about: reading that teachers in your state think that any child who didn't go to day care or preschool is "feral" or reading that homophobia is being taught to 4-year-olds with public funds.

I'm becoming so accustomed to equating "religion" with "narrow-mindedness" that my knee-jerk reaction is to reject it altogether.

Last night, my 13-yr-old son went to a youth-group meeting with a friend of his and I felt as if I had to innoculate him with our values first so that none of the holier-than-thou thinking would get in. I also made him pinky-swear-promise that he wouldn't come home an Evangelical or a Republican. Neither of those groups have endeared themselves to me lately.

I'm glad to hear that you're calling the school out about this. The last thing we need to do is to grow more bigotry and small-mindedness in this country.

That is a fascinating and frightening thing. If it is happening there it is likely happening other places. Zoinks!

Be nice if 'Christians' sat down and had a good look at what their Cheese-us really stood for....

Excellent post.

I have seen your mothering skills firsthand. The state of Florida could learn a LOT of lessons from you. EXCELLENT post.

Glad to hear that your meeting had results. What's equally sad is that your children aren't considered normal if they haven't gone to pre-school.

All I can say is "Bravo" Your children are very fortunate.

I have no interest either Jodi. Why not just tell them, Vescere bracis meis? All kidding aside, this is a matter that would appear to need the courts interdiction. This is why I was opposed to government funding for religious social services. They WILL indoctrinate and judge qualifications for services according to religious beliefs. They refuse to provide services in cases where there is no alignment with the agencies doctrine. Think it's bad there? My youngest daughter has chosen to be a Wiccan, she did it of her own free will and isn't terribly pagan in social situations. None the less, when the high school found out that she was not a christian, they hounded her with christian ideology and harassed her until we were forced to find a private school. Complaints to the school board were dismissed and attending public meetings were dangerous, since I am an atheist. The rage I encountered from elected officials over that little nugget of information is worthy of a news report, except. no one will find anything wrong with Christians being hostile to an atheist. The opposite will result in your house mysteriously catching fire while you are sleeping.

Thank goodness she didn't come back singing "One girl, five boys" and asking for a copy of the Emily Osment CD.
Good work staying on top of the kidz's curriculum.

My first thought, when I read this, was that these are the schools that didn't allow President Obama's "school speech" to be aired. I know it didn't go down as far as pre-school, but the ideology is the same, I think. THEY can indoctrinate our kids in THEIR ideologies--but the President can't. What's up with that?

And you're absolutely right--these are big and important issues, issues that permeate the whole world and everyone in it. It must be taught early and often so our kids(z) grow up as unbiased as possible! Thank you for continuing the fight--it'll pay off in the long run........I hope.

Sidenote: I was raised in KY, now live in "southern" Ohio, am surrounded by bigots and racists and sexists--Repubs all. My area is so red the Fall leaves don't stand a chance of being noticed. But the older I get, the more "liberal" I become. Makes my old friends crazy--and I'm lovin' every minute of smashing their preconceived ideas about me! So you go, girl! Rated. D

P.S. "You can't own a preposition"--priceless! Thanks for that!!

Kudos to you and your husband for standing by your values and beliefs. Although I live in a very liberal area, being different still means blank stares, awkward questions, and avoidance. It's appalling (and unfathomable) to me that teachers these days still are making "recommendations" for ADD testing, let alone teaching whom one should love. Good luck and thanks for sharing this story!

I'd be interested in hearing how the school reacts to your reaction.

Kindergarten originally began in Germany as a way to ease children away from their mothers and into the school situation. It was SUPPOSED to teach kids how to socialize with other kids, follow a teacher's instructions, stay on a classroom schedule, etc. It was never originally intended to be academic--that's why it literally translates to "children's garden."

Incidentally, kindergarten is not required in every state. It's still (to the best of my knowledge) not required in my home state of Indiana--you can start the kid right into first grade at age 6 if you want. Very few people do this anymore, though neither of my folks attended kindergarten and several of my classmates did not either.

BTW, I had a year of preschool at the YMCA before starting kindergarten and I still got my name on the board near-daily for daydreaming and getting out of my desk when I wasn't supposed to for, oh, the first four grades of school. Somehow I managed to do frighteningly well on standardized tests anyway.

Tremendously interesting post. Dorinda makes a good point about how kids (kid'z!) think. At four, as I recall, they're super hung up on how things ought to be.

Ultimately, SGC will be fine. She may receive some mixed messages between home and school but she is receiving the right message at home and that's what's important.

We all have to "unlearn" things just like how you said you were naive as a young parent and had to change your thinking.

In a perfect world she wouldn't confront these things at her age. but one way or another the whole big-bad world is coming crashing down on her. No stopping it.

Jodi, this post stirs deep with me and there are so many issues in it that I want to address, but should probably do a series of 'educational' posts.

I'll skip to the 'behavior issues' you're children have inherited. (You're related to my son, aren't you?)

That 'testing' bit in pre-school, they do for a reason. It's called money. The lower grades, aka pre-school up, race to get as many children in 'the program' for what they believe to be hyper-active, unruly and undisciplined curs into the program.

Most parents follow along with the recommendations of the 'teachers', take it personally, grieve and let them go ahead rather than buck the system. (Most don't even realize when their children are so young that there even IS a system, much less know how to fight it...aggressively and without fear.)

Race. They keep testing until they get the limit.

Same thing for the 'Gifted and Talented' programs. Fill 'em up! Get the full funding or lose it. Don't have that many geniuses? Hey, that's ok, put those little 'borderline' kids in there anyway... they'll do fine. Maintain the maximum number to retain the...funding.

Then, you know what? Right as they begin to enter junior high level, a miracle happens. The little curs suddenly become normal and the little geniuses have lost their luster...And.. they are retested, have huge meetings, fill out scores of paperwork, call parents, and by gohd, they are taken out of the 'program' -- Don't need the special service any more. Huh. It's a miracle.

Why is that? Money's gone, honey. Upper levels are not funded the same way....The babes are miraculously healed, and all of that angst the parents went through for 8-10 long years was for naught.

I could go on about this for days, and to my former colleagues who might be reading this, you know very well that I'm telling the truth, so keep your flack to yourself, or start your own blog and refute it. You can't. (Sorry, Jodi, for cya-ing on your post).

Now, about that one teacher. The No Child Left Behind Act mandates student-to-teacher ratios (especially in the lower grades) with strict adherence to the teacher(s) being "highly qualified" in their fields. That's a question you should pursue.

You're doing a great job in confronting the Separation of Church and State rulings regarding what your child is being 'taught' -- Keep it up and don't back down.

For the record, I took my 2 y-o out of a "Montessori" facility because the owner/director couldn't spell Wednesday (twice) and never let up.

Sorry for ranting on your beautifully written post.

BR

Thanks for the post- I can almost hear a class full of kids singing “Girls love boys and boys love girls. One boy and one girl” as they skip around the playground holding hands. Maybe Christians get toasters for recruiting just like us queers:) By the way I wish every little one had you and your husband as their parents.

Correction: I'll skip to the 'behavior issues' your children have inherited.

Great post, Jodi.

You pose a very important question. How did she get to a point of sing-songing in three weeks?

If she's sing-songing this now, what else will she be sing-songing in the coming days?

I do not know but you raise a dilemma about child care and schooling that is not worth ignoring. Those who wish to see social progress in America do not benefit from children who begin to think like those preventing social progress do.

By the age of 9 a person reaches maximum persuasability. Children need to develop a language that does not feed into campaigns to prevent certain groups from having certain rights and conversations about what is right and wrong should take place when children are in elementary school.

Rated.

Excellent post, Jodi! Just excellent.

I also hunted high and low for a non-religious preschool. They're hard to find. Federal funding going to homophobia in preschool kids is scary.

curious! wow. do let us know what happens.

Gosh, I can only imagine the confusion those kids are going to have. You can only love one of your brothers?

Sitting in a chair is a school readiness skill. In some states, they test kids for readiness and pay for a year of "readiness" before kindergarten.

Bill S, there are some life issues that need to be taught. One of the gym teachers in my daughter's school, which has students of over 50 nationalities said a high school student asked her where babies come out. The teacher, a tough Brit, had the first reaction of assuming the girl was pulling her leg. Ultimately, she realized this girl's knowledge of her own body was extremely limited and that girls from her culture married young and were kept ignorant.

The gym teacher enlightened her.

Aren't these the same people who rail against any mention of gay "lifestyle" in the classroom?

This propaganda, especially when kids are this young and trusting of authority, is what plants the seeds of self-hatred in gay kids. Children and young adults who hear this stuff are dying, taking their own lives every day, because of the accumulation of hopelessness and shame over the years.

So much for the sanctity of life.

I post often about homophobia. I really appreciate you posting this excellent piece. Thank you.

First, I don't understand why it is thought necessary to "educate" young children on such issues.

That said, what you are experiencing is the flip side of what conservative Christian parents experience with some public schools. Young children are read books supportive of gay marriage. Some schools have GLBT Appreciation Day, and so on. These activities are framed as promoting tolerance and diversity, and conservative parents who complain are portrayed as Bible-thumping homophobic opponents of tolerance.

Question: are you upset about your daughter being taught a traditional view of gender relationships, or are you upset that she is being taught anything at all about the topic? In other worlds had she come home singing a song consistent with your view of relationships, would that have been Ok?

:)

Sweden will allow gay couples to be legally married from next month.
Parliament voted overwhelmingly on Wednesday to recognise same-sex marriage, becoming the fifth country in Europe to do so.
Sweden was one of the first countries to give gay couples legal "partnership" rights, in the mid-1990s, and allowed them to adopt children from 2002.
The new law lets homosexuals wed in either a civil or religious ceremony, though individual churches can opt out.
The law was passed by 226 votes to 22 and will come into force on 1 May.

Unfortunately, your kids are going to get a lot of this no matter where they go. The most important thing for them is to know that YOU DON'T AGREE WITH IT AND THEY SHOULDN'T EITHER! We live in a very homophobic area. We have gay friends, including the best man at our wedding. Our daughter has shown no indication of going over to the dark side since she knows our friends and has been brought up in our home. Too bad there are so many stupid people out there.

Mishima - We did not confront the school about the viewpoint. We confronted them about the subject matter, specifically because they are a private school with a stated Christian curriculum. However, I DO prefer that my children are taught to live in a world of tolerance, not in a world of gender role based bigotry.

I have no problem with the way anyone wants to live their life - including bigots who hate within their homes. It's just a shame they can't *keep* that inside their homes. I think it's about staying out of other people's business. We have to teach our children to be tolerant of other people's sexual orientation.

Furthermore, I don't believe being gay is a choice, but I do believe that being a bigot is a choice. Asking if I would like my children taught in a way that is tolerant to sexual orientation is like asking if I'd like them to be taught that black people deserve equal rights.

Yes, I want my children taught equal rights. If a church doesn't want to perform a ceremony, that's their right. But I believe that people of all sexual orientations should have the same civil and property rights that I do as a heterosexual. If no one taught their children about equal rights 100 years ago, women and minorities still wouldn't have the right to vote. There were "Bible-based" reasons for that, too.

My children will live in a world that is populated by a gay/lesbian/transgendered/bi-sexual contingent. They will have to learn how to accept that these people exist and that their lives are equal to their own. The reality is that people who arbitrarily apply the Bible (Not eating shellfish is on the same page of the Bible as the passages about gays) can no longer shout down the entire homosexual population.

I find it highly amusing that the same right-wing believers who think that the government shouldn't be able to regulate them in the form of taxes, "socialized medicine" and gun control want to control the rest of the population morally by legislating abortion, marriage, sexuality and religion.

People have the right to believe that homosexuality is wrong. That right ends where someone else's front door begins. Out in the world, you can't yell/beat/shame people into hiding that they are gay any longer. It's not anyone's right to deny people their rights because they don't like who someone is. Believing that our children should be taught that being gay is wrong is just like teaching them that being black is inferior.

I always want my children's education to err on the side of humanity, love and tolerance - no matter what the subject.

I was in Georgia when my kids started school. First daughter started at a "Christian" school which as you can imagine didn't last long. I went through the same things as you when I didn't do pre-K for my son and put him directly into kindergarten. Both of them I eventually pulled out and home schooled. By third child I had learned my lesson and she never attended school at all but was home schooled from the beginning.

That the state funds these schools at all is wrong since they are not regulated as to curriculum but what happened to Kindergarten and then first grade. Kindergarten was started to help kids get used to being in school so why Pre-K? There are many social issues going on here. As usual your subject gets me started on a string that I can't do justice in a comment.
Good luck tomorrow and with a mom like you there ain't no way that sweetie's going to be prejudiced.

Great writing, great topic, great parent! Rated.

Keep fighting the good fight!

As a former resident of Jacksonville - and a Stanton grad class of 1997, I can empathize with your tough choices. All I can say is, James Weldon Johnson and Stanton/Paxon are awesome - if your children are bright and higher education bound. Otherwise, for artsy inclined folks (including writing!) Douglas Anderson can't be beat. Otherwise, I'm wary of Jacksonville schools. I was a sub in many of them when I moved away (may-December 2004) and while most were tolerable, some were outright criminal.

As a lesbian mom, thank you for standing up for 'us' even when you're not forced to because you are one of 'us'. It's the "straight allies" that help turn the tide - just like the fair minded whites that helped turn the tide for the African American community during the early Civil Rights movement. Those that are a member of an oppressed minority can only do so much for themselves - it takes many members of the oppressing majority standing together with the minority before real change becomes possible. :-)

Jodi, I'm on the Board of the Human Rights Campaign in DC and I thank you for this post. I've been living in larger cities for the majority of my life, and even though I know this type of thing happens I'm always a little shocked. I've become conditioned to living in places where it's odd NOT to see gay people walking down the street.

We are having our annual National Dinner on October 10th where we are going to honor Judy Shepard, mother of murder victim Matthew Shepard. The fact that this woman came out of the wilds of Wyoming to become a leading advocate for gay rights is just remarkable. And she's funny, personable and genuine. We are truly luck to have her.

And don't get me started on Disney. They are selling sex to pre-pubescents in the most "Joe Camel" of ways - and are disguising it as innocent. Every purity ring they solder to the hands of each Jonas Brother or Hannah Montana knock-off is marketing - pure and simple - and incredibly devious.

Oh honey, as a child who survived public schools where prayers were still said daily (to Jesus and I am Jewish) and where little red New Testaments were de rigueur, I feel for you. BUT I think that parents can override that shit. Mine did and I was all right. My 16 year old daugther is in a very good private school that happens to be Episcopalian; they have chapel twice a week. She is sick of "in Jesus' name" stuff but knows it's their option. On really holy days, Ash Wedneseday, Easter Week, Good Friday I write her a note and she is excused.....

Good luck. But you can override the school in that sort of thing.

I t just goes t show you that you really have to watch what young children are exposed to. At 4 years old she's like a sponge soaking up the world around her and learning about how to behave in the world.

-Nikki-

You and The Man are some BADASS parents!

I still remember the bitter old recess monitor in 1st grade (public school) telling us on Good Friday that we shouldn't be eating meat because it was "the day they killed our Lord." Not having been raised in an observant Christian household, I had no idea what she was talking about, but I remember the unpleasantly searching look she gave all of us, looking for who knows what -- recognition, defiance, validation, whatever.

I'm sure there were a hundred little things like that scattered inappropriately throughout my early school life but the thing is I have yet to experience any longing for religiosity or sectarian cliquishness. Something in my upbringing proved vastly more influential than these little episodes, even though I never brought any of my experiences home to my parents for formal clarification or approval.

Kids.. they figure it out in the end. They really do. Whether or not they acknowledge you the way you want them to, or even seem to be paying any attention at all, they're absorbing it and processing it and figuring it all out. They'll horrify you with the homophobic jingle they picked up at school, then seem to forget about it, and then shock you 20 years later because they can still sing it for you, and laugh.

It's inevitable that children are exposed to conflicting ideas and inevitable that they will have to sort it out by themselves, sooner or later in life, and that the best anyone else can do is give them good tools and instruction in their use. Doing it for them is not an option.

So the bad news is that this will happen again, and that mystifying or veiling intolerance may actually add to its appeal in the long run. But the good news is that petty classroom encounters are little waves washing up and down the shores of childhood consciousness, maybe leaving bits of flotsam and jetsam here and there but insignificant compared to the patient and inexorable tide of parenting.

Keep rockin' the tolerance doctrine, Mom. Don't worry, what you say rules.

An interesting post.

In general I think that parents are too nervous about the matter what their children learn at school.

In most cases here where I'm living children probably don't believe much of that to be true what their teachers tell them. They understand early that teachers are quite limited with their knowledge and attitudes. And the general level of the formal education in this country is certainly among the highest in the world and we have got the true 100% literacy rate.

But it might be different there. The general level of the education isn't too high there and the conditions and teachers' qualities in schools might be there very varied. So parents there are much afraid that the school of their children might be very bad..?

Just my opinion but I would pull her out of the school as fast as I could. My daughter is a lesbian and she has talked to me in length how she felt like an outcast most of her childhood and how she kept it secret out of fear. This is an important and compelling piece.
Thank you for this
rated

Jodi writes: "We did not confront the school about the viewpoint. We confronted them about the subject matter . . . "

My view is that public schools should not take sides on issues such as same-sex marriage.

Jodi: "Yes, I want my children taught equal rights."

Well, same-sex marriage and the civil rights movement of the 50s and 60s are very different. The civil right movement was about black Americans being able to participate meaningfully in the society -- being able to register to vote, being able to vote, being able to use public facilities, having access to employment and housing, having access to the legal system, to have an adequate defense, and to be able to be judged by a jury of one's peers. Even in Loving v. Virginia it wasn't just that the Lovings couldn't get married. It was that if they did they would be subject to criminal prosecution and imprisonment, basically becoming outlaws by being married.

The civil rights movement addressed an entire complex of countless laws and social practices that were intentionally designed to deny blacks any meaningful participation in society. In my view same-sex marriage is nothing like that. The Supreme Court has never held that there is a constitutional right to same-sex marriage. Many state courts have said there is no such right in their respective state constitutions. Opposition to same-sex marriage is nothing like the racism that the civil rights movement fought, and many blacks also disageee with the comparison.

Jodi: "Believing that our children should be taught that being gay is wrong is just like teaching them that being black is inferior."

What do you think of the idea of letting parents teach their own children about sexual orientation, identity, and relationships? I don't think that public schools should be in that business, on either side of the issue. Otherwise it's just simple bias, favoring one viewpoint over the other. Why should public funds be used to favor either side?

Mishima - My cousin is 52 years old and has been with his life partner for half his life.

If he or his partner were to become seriously ill, not only would they not have any legal authority to manage each other’s care, but they could be barred from being in the hospital room with their lifelong partner. In West Virginia, adopting a child is not even a remote possibility for my cousin and his partner. But, if it were, they could lose custody of their child for any reason at any time.

If, God forbid, the worst should happen, not only would they have no say in the handling of their partner’s body, they could lose their home and all of their possessions.

As survivors, estranged families can, in nearly every state, seize a real estate property that a gay couple may have been buying together for many years, leaving him or her out on the street and denied their investment.

There are hundreds of examples of this, even in many cases where the gay couple had been extremely careful to do everything right under current law, in a determined effort to protect their rights.

How does that NOT permeate every single aspect of every single LGBT life in this country? How does that not violate the most basic rights of safety, liberty and citizenship? They routinely lose EVERYTHING.

I want my tax dollars to pay for building a better society. A better society would not allow that sort of injustice. They vote and they pay taxes. It's time to give all sexual orientations the full rights that everyone else has in this country.

There are plenty of folks that don't want evolution taught in school either. It's time for ignorance to stop - mainly by all of us ceasing to ignore it because we might step on the toes of people who are more comfortable continuing our history of bigotry.

wow, you are a great mom. your childern are so very blessed!

Reminds me of when my son attended our local very sectarian Montessori school. They hired a lady to be with the kids while they ate lunch. She decided they were all expected to say "grace" before meals. At the tender age of 4, my son had decided that nobody was going to tell him what to do. He didn't want to say "grace." Her solution was to isolate him from the others as a "punishment." The owner of the pre-school was horrified. So that didn't last. However, these religious fanatics are everywhere it seems. They give me the creeps.

I almost forgot, bobbot gets the Latin cookie today!

"I'm not interested in your dopey religious cult."

Jodi,

I realize that you probably hear this a lot, but you're such a great mother. amazing story and it does show how fast kids can learn the crazy stuff. I'll never forget when my nephew came home from first grade claiming his two big dreams were to get married and to own a hummer.

**crickets**

Cheese-Us that's scary.

She should go to the Dirty Hippie Pre-K. Also known as Homeschool. She's not likely to be pegged for ADD anyway; schools reserve that almost exclusively for boys.

Great piece, Jodi!

Know what? I think I love you. ;-D

Thanks to everyone who has commented. I'm afraid I dropped the individual comment replies about the time I started baking today. Each comment means a lot to me and I thank everyone for your feedback!

So they get lessons in whom to discriminate against, before they are taught anything about actual sex education as it pertains to themselves?

You have my sympathies, and sympathetic outrage. Even discussions that include leashes and children in the same sentence have to be better than seemingly innocent indoctrination of small children.

EEK!! I thought blowing a microphone was illegal in Florida??

Sheesh.

This makes me so angry I'm afraid I'll harm the keyboard, Jodi. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Mish, I think you're mistaken about the notion of public school teachers using their platform to push gay rights. Au contraire. Teachers and administrators run the other direction from controversy. I've mentioned it before, but there's this whole system of legalistic bureaucracy that dominates schools--a bunch of forms and paperwork and permission slips for everything--all to protect the schools from criticism (which leads to lack of funding, given the way that school funding works in most states--by levies). The outcome is a decided lack of intellectualism in the classroom, and almost no tolerance of curiosity.

The truth is that sometimes this stuff comes up incidentally, despite its not being part of a curriculum. Kids bring in all manner of questions and comments about their lives and about their notions about how the world works. Teachers are often the sounding board, especially at these young ages, and so they're forced to address them, even if obliquely. If I had my druthers, whole lesson plans would be tossed in favor of exploring their thinking and helping them discover the truths about them. This is called "constructivism," and neuroscience tells us it's the way people learn. They must struggle with concepts, turning them back and forth and adding nuances before discarding old beliefs. It's just as true for math and social studies as it is for such "non-academic" topics as relationships.

Please don't misunderstand; given the age of Jodi's daughter, I certainly wouldn't get into a graphic discussion of gender or gender-related legislation. And my comment is mostly a criticism in the general sense of liberalism's hollow victory in the schools. It's true that the right "lost" the fight about religion in schools, but the left really didn't win. There's not much critical thinking going on in most of them.

Excellent! Thanks for taking the time to share, and good luck finding any kind of public school these days without built-in biases, low expectations and teachers too tired to teach. Sorry, it's been one of those days.

Where is the state funding for those who want to teach tolerance? You can always tell when you live in a red state. Talk about brainwashing. Why is this even an issue with kids that young?

Wow, Jodi, this takes my breath away, for a few reasons.

First, I can't believe that kids who don't go to kindergarten are considered so far behind others! "In my day" (as we ancients say) kindergarten itself was optional. And we didn't learn to read until 1st grade. I thought educational standards were declining?? I guess this is one more thing I get for not having kids -- ignorance of such matters.

I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this and I hope you find some solution that doesn't seem on the horizon right now. It does seem a particularity of where you live that there are no non-Christian options -- that seems tantamount to religious discrimination to me. Given that you are actually somewhat open to Christianity (at least culturally) and are so discomfited, I can only ponder what the Jewish, Muslim and Hindu parents in your area feel! I guess they have to have their own religious schools for their kids. Times like this I wonder if I'm really in America, where we have religious freedom, not to mention separation of church and state. But then, there are still far too many people who argue that "we're a Christian nation" - bah.

oh, and thanks so much for the picture of Martin and Lyon. They were a much-loved couple around here, and one I invoke when people argue that only marriage represents commitment for partners (something I hear too often, being a het person who chooses not to marry my partner). So, what, these two weren't committed to each other for 51 years before they married?! Sadly, one (I can't remember which) died about a year or so ago. But good that they got to have that ceremony before then.

Wonderful story. The critical thinking skills your kids are learning at home will trump the BS they learn outside your home. You're teaching them to question and to evaluate what they're told--such great tools for figuring out what information they can trust as reliable.

Wow. That is incredible. Your tax dollars at work.

I really appreciate that you picked up on that and are addressing it...how many parents don't? And not because they're homophobic themselves...but because they just aren't tuned in? xox

That's the part that really scares me, Robin. What if I had never known? How many thousands of parents out there DON'T know?

I think that the program might best be offered through an extension of the public schools in addition to the private preschools. I would at least like to have that choice.

I'm a parent too, Jodi. My children haven't been to a Christian school, but they instinctively know male/female complementarity is normal and natural. Their mother and father's bodies are designed as heterosexual and their very existence can only have come about as a result of their parent's heterosexual union. Instinctively they know that boys go with girls and girls go with boys, and mommy and a daddy make a baby. That's the norm for 97% of the human race and there was absolutely nothing "homophobic" about the curriculum underscoring the obvious. There's nothing hateful. Did the teacher tell your daughter to hate homosexuals? No. Did she tell your daughter to discriminate against them? No. Did she tell your daughter that two men or two women couldn't love one another? No.
Maybe you think it's an outrage that Christian parents "brainwash" their innocent children about Jesus before they can decide for themselves what to believe in, but you're no different. Are you not also forcing your own opinions down the throat of your child before she has a chance to decide for herself what truth is?

It might be just as important to let her see the world as it is and understand that not all authority figures are automatically right/correct in their views....because even if you are able to protect her from encountering bigotry in preschool, you can't protect her forever - they are everywhere.

I'm not sure that a song about boys loving girls and girls loving boys is really promoting homophobia to 4 year olds. However inappropriate it might well be. They are going to learn all kinds of screwed up ideas in other areas of thier educations and also from television and the things they will see adults in real life do. You can't protect them from life as we know it. One of my best friends is a gay person and I think they have straitophibia. Perhaps being gay is a good thing. It helps control the population explosion, and that issue needs to be addressed. Schools are not perfect, maybe they might even be doing evil things by perpetuating lies to make people conform to the new world order. Home schooling could be a good thing if parents are smart enough to take on that responsability. I'm not really sure anyone knows what the real truth is. We all have to decide for ourselfs.

Here's the difference: I'm not telling my kid that ANYTHING is wrong. People couple in different ways. She will live in a world with people of all sexual orientations. I will teach her to operate in a positive way in the reality of that world.

As Sandra says, bigotry is everywhere. I think she'll get a large dose of people in her life that think that homosexuality is unnatural. Undoubtedly my dad will see to that.

I want her to have the freedom to be able to accept that what is right for her may not be right for someone else. Tolerance is the key and the freedom to think instead of being indoctrinated is priceless.

The State of Florida would be sued into oblivion for doing this in a kindergarten class, but they will pay for it to be done in Pre-K. I think that's wrong. What we teach our kids in our homes is our business. What the state pays for them to be taught is *everyone's* business.

Furthermore, "One Man and One Woman" is the battlecry of the movement to deny LGBT people the same civil union rights as heterosexuals. It is discrimination. I do not want my child taught discrimination in a state funded program. When we questioned the management, they apologized profusely and promised that it would not happen again. If it's so right, why are they apologizing?

I also want to be extremely clear about "protecting" my child. She is well-aware that there is bigotry in the world and she will become more aware of that with each passing day. I am not an overly protective parent. However, there is a separation of church and state in our country. State funded schools should not be preaching their definition of marriage to four-year-olds.

I would be mortified if my kiddo (almost 3) came home saying that phrase about one boy one girl. Of course, it is unlikely because there are families of the same sex who send their kids to his preschool.

It is SHOCKING that people who teach this can be paid by the state AS EDUCATORS.

This was a wonderful and interesting piece! I'm a college student currently enrolled in a sexual psychology class, and trust me, the lessons on who you "can" love don't ever stop--you are constantly learning.
It warms my heart to know your little girl will have a fighting chance at loving whoever she chooses!

Oh, wow. I'm speechless.

Well, it is the South.

For that matter, I don't like everything I read in the United Methodist doctrine.

Hopefully, these school folks will straighten up and stop with the indoctrination. Hopefully, I say, but I'm not really all that hopeful.

Dogs dont seem to care about sexual orientation when it comes to humping. Not an issue!

On the other hand, if I, as a public school teacher, were to tell my students that anyone can kiss anyone, no matter their gender, then I would be in big trouble. Big trouble.

In my Kindergarten class, no one gets to kiss anyone and all questions are deferred to parents.

Excellent piece! I'm glad it's getting so much attention.
"I always want my children's education to err on the side of humanity, love and tolerance - no matter what the subject." Yep.

Sounds like you did a much better job teaching!

I wouldn't worry. Really. One of my children proclaimed "I will be gay!" when he was six because it sounded like so much more fun to marry another boy rather than an icky girl. The other kids teased that idea out of him pretty quickly. He has since almost grown up, and has attended committment ceremonies for same sex couples (prior to gay marriage becoming more widespread), and has known some gay people. He is accepting and tolerant, just like the behavior that was modeled for him in our home. Just because your little one is parroting these phrases from her preschool doesn't mean that it will stick.

Wow, you think that's bad, just wait until they use your tax dollars and children to further their Global warming/climate change in an attempt to coerce redistribution of your wealth.

I read and re-read your post, Jodi, and I can't see how such a position of subjective relativism is going to answer your child's inevitable questions or resolve the contradictions and paradoxes such a worldview invites. You won't be teaching her ANYTHING is wrong? When she's 12 years old and some 40 year-old teacher starts grooming her for a relationship, you'll say what? That "intergenerational love" just one of the many orientations in our diverse world? What if her boyfriend is "oriented" toward sexual sadism? You'll say some men really feel love and pain as an erotic continuum and she shouldn't be judgmental? You're not going to realistically be able to tell your child any of the above are harmful, when your position in life is that it's ok to act on any natural desire or proclivity and that a plain vanilla heterosexual marriage and family is a bigoted social construct oppressing LGBTLQQ people. That IS your message, and in my opinion you're leave your child defenseless against an increasingly dangerous and rudderless culture. My children learn everything this need to know about family from simply watching us; their mom and dad. For Elena and I, the family is as it has always been: the eternal refuge and source of hope and stability in a world threatened by divorce, abortion, prostitution, human trafficking and a contraceptive mentality. The future of humanity passes by way of the family, as John Paul II said.

You souldn't be so surprised to find religious sensibilities permeating the warp and woof of the preschool system. The makeup of preschool follows the will of the people, not the state.Let us not forget that the separation of Church and state also precludes the state from imposing its will on American people, (the majority of whom, DO believe in God). With state's adoption of a secular humanist ideology and its attempt to impose that will on the people, we'll see rebellion after rebellion between those who believe in a Creator, and those that believe they are the creators. That's where we're at in America today.

I'm late to the party again.

My husband and I got together with a bunch of friends and started our own preschool for that very reason, but that's not what I want to say, mainly.

When we began caring for foster children, one of the first big lessons was how to say, "In our family, we ..." Sometimes it was, "We believe X." Sometimes it was "We wash our hands before we eat," or "We don't hit, ever." But we had to deal with the knowledge that these kids wouldn't always be in our family, so we had to equip them with tools to deal with a variety of situations (including, unfortunately, living with people who did hit). They weren't going to be well served by our teaching them that our way was the only way to think.

With the little ones it was enough to say, "Yes, Nadja has two mommies; let's talk about all the different kinds of families we know about." Or, "We believe in Jesus; Najib's mother believes X, and other people believe Y. That's kind of cool, isn't it?" The kids were just checking in to see if we had observed the same thing they had; once thus assured, they'd shrug as if to say, "Yeah, I thought so."

And sometimes we had to explain why someone (like my father-in-law) was wrong about something: Calling Jews "dirty" and Indians "drunk," insisting that "they" hate us for our freedoms, etc. We pulled our kids out of more than a few situations, but I was surprised at the number of times they were able to accept that someone was wrong about one thing — sometimes a big thing — but wasn't without worth. They could figure out that it was ok to love Grandpa as long as they didn't act like him, or that it was ok to trust their teachers to take care of them but not to teach them about God, or whatever.

So, I'd say, give her a little credit for having absorbed a whole lot of what you've been trying to teach her. (Note: This may not be apparent until after she's graduated from college, but it's true, I promise.) By all means, go deal with the school, and good luck with that. But don't worry too much about your daughter.

Peter - Wow. That's no different than these people who say that allowing gay marriage will lead to people marrying animals. Any port in a storm, I suppose. Thanks for joining just to comment though! You should stick around and post your own blog.

High Lonesome - I'm not worried that one incident is going to warp her forever. Somehow in our family we've managed to raise the two older kids without incident. I do use the tactics you are discussing and they are spot-on. Relation rather than opposition is always more constructive.

Peter, I appreciate your clarity of expression even as I disagree with your worldview. At the end of the day, I think people are just wired differently, some more open to tolerance of diversity and others more interested in a closed system. I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both, in terms of those individuals' and their tribes' survivability (I'm speaking in Darwinian terms here, something you shouldn't have a problem with, given the Catholic Church's acceptance of evolution). At any rate, I wanted to say that I think you should create a post or two. Please PM me if you do, and I'll come read it. You sound like somebody who doesn't mind an argument.

I live in Tennessee (that should be enough said right there) and had the joyous experience of having a child come home from their first day of 1st grade with the irreplacable knowledge that when it rains God is fighting the Devil. It was also the first time in history he had chocolate or a soda, things that quickly became must-haves.

::hate::

Thank you for sharing this story. It's thought-provoking. The good thing is that your own behavior will have more effect on your child than anything they teach her in school. It's just sad that you need to put extra energy into something that should be simple.

The whole South wallows in ignorance and seems gleeful in propagating their sexist, pro evangelical christian crap, in a manner that is reminiscent of nazi germany. BTW, what about the Jewish kids, are they put in the same category as the "gay" ones?

Preschool is only for a year. She'll have 12 years of of indoctrination in our re-education system even before she hits college. In fact, I don't know how they will even have the time to learn the three R's with so much instruction in global warming, diversity and wellness, with a mix of nonsmoking and just say no propaganda. Our education is almost indistinguishable from the one they got in the Soviet Union. And you're worried your kid will come out of it conservative? How is that even possible?

Lets try and clear some of this up one step at a time.

First. Your child obviously worships Satan. The look on face just screams: “I'm going to eat your brain.” Don't feel bad. It takes a highly trained eye such as mine to spot these things early on. Around the age of 13 the signs will be abundantly clear to you and The Man Servant.

But lets try and deal with your completely inadequate response to the challenges that organized education has presented you with.

Them: “Ms. Kasten, -if that's your real name,- your children have to submit to ADD testing.”
You: “No problem. You take it, they'll take it. Deal?”
(Side note. Your children are feral pit bulls and don't ever think otherwise. Don't believe it? Drop a bag of M&Ms on the floor between them and try and retrieve it Stumpy.)

“I had no way to recreate a classroom in my home...”
Look. If some guy named Jerry Spunkmiester can shoot Teacher's Pet 3 and The Escaped Convict and the Wardens Wife 6 in a garage in the San Fernando Valley on the same day for three thousand bucks, you oughtta be able to pull this one off.

“I vowed that never again would one of my children be suggested for “further behavioral screening.” “
So how exactly are they going to know whether to take the blue pill or the red pull? Let's try to think ahead here shall we?

“In Jacksonville, there are hundreds of preschools which offer the Pre-K program. Each school is given about $2,500 per year, per child.”
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah... Do they have a 52” flat panel plasma TV or not? The days of keeping kids entertained all day with Barney songs on a five year old Wal Mart CD player or over.

“The schools range from universities offering the program in conjunction with their student benefits to private schools run by churches or synagogues.”
Or as we like to call them in the free world: Reeducation camps. Lets move on to “option B,” self medicating, and a DVD of various test patterns. Same result but cuts down on the carpooling.

“...SmallGirlChild enjoys people being swallowed by whales and saying, “Baby Cheese-Us.””
Clearly she already understands the concept human sacrifice and devouring the body of Christ and is a full blown religious fanatic. Get her out on tour and rake in the bucks while the gettin's good.

“...they have used the universal clock formation, yet added “13” ...”
Actually, this is the preschool version of the Doomsday Clock. Elmo says: “Take your nap or else.”

“The word “Jesus” was never used on the website or the brochures ...”
Yeah. And Elton John never put the word Gay in block letters on an album cover. Yet everyone was so shocked when he came out. (Elton's probably still shaking his head going: “They couldn't have all been that dense could they Bernie? I mean the glasses, the hats. The fricken' feather boa. Even I'm not that gay Bernie.”)

SGC: “Girls love boys and boys love girls. One boy and one girl.”
She's clearly doing God's work since it's pretty clear to her that you don't. Having two children before your birthing hips were full developed, and even if you were married, you were probably fantasizing about being single during the conception. I don't know how you look at yourself in the mirror, then tell that child you love her.

What is it with those two old gals in the picture? Is that love or a Vulcan mind meld?

I thought Hanna Montana was best friends with the Jonas Brothers. Hmm... Well... Maybe you've got something there.

I'll tell you the one thing I've learned from children, (besides how to still get anything I want in my forties by throwing a tantrum,) and that's that whatever you teach and tell them, good or bad, is going to stick with them longer than any school, teacher, or church does. The fact that she argues with you about socks and not about anything with them is your best indicator of where she's at.

It means she cares enough about what your saying to put up a fight.

I have been teaching and doing educational research, too, at various formal schooling levels including universities and junior high schools. (But never in Kindergartens.)

According to current 'scientific' educational theories children learn things in some kind of logical patterns so that concrete practical things are learned first and formal, abstract and moral standards last. So that children become able to learn about moral ideals only after they are about 10 to 15 years old. (I'm not at all sure if that kind of theories are really right, because very small kids are able to understand numbers well and those are very abstract things... But in any case those Piaget's and Kohlberg's ideas about human learning are widely accepted in so-called 'Western' educational institutions. In North Europe where I'm living those educational standards and ideals are of course much better instructed and forced to all teachers than in America, where the general 'scientific' standard is not as high and much more diverse, but in general the theory is the same. )

So for example teachers in kindergartens are not much worried about teaching to children 'right moral standards', because they think that small children cannot learn them, they are trying to teach to them concrete practical things how to behave themselves. And they are in general not trying to teach to children if it is 'right or wrong' to do this or that way, but trying to instruct children just 'to do concrete things certain ways'. (For example 'boys love girls'.)

Nobody knows well if those 'concrete behavior patterns' as learned when children are small are later transformed into 'moral ideals' how the things should be done 'right ways'... But of course many teachers are hopeful that it would happen...

For example my own view during my school times was that most the moral standards of the teachers were plainly wrong and not to be accepted. Teachers were just trying to indoctrinate children into right wing world view, where all kinds of inequality was just 'correct'. So I was probably never much influenced by my school teachers. At the university I realized quite quickly the same thing.

So I'm not much worried if children are learning some different things at school compared to the ideas at home. It is a part of the learning that people have got different ideas, for example teachers and parents.

My feeling about that 'boys love girls' thing is that it is quite funny. Those children in kindergarten are so young that they probably don't understand much about the whole idea, what teachers are trying to tell. That is maybe the reason why they are parroting the phrase, it sounds just funny?

Ew. That was chilling. Man...I almost don't know what to say. It's sad and pathetic. And that was a Montessori school? Aren't they supposed to be trailblazing, progressive types? Or can anybody slap that label on their institution, including a houseful of bigots?

I'm with Myriad...why is that being taught there anyway at this point? I guess bigotry has no age limits. Better start early. The early homophobe gets the worm.

I've decided to focus on what made me laugh here, because the rest angers me and it's really early. I shall read this again today, for a post-chuckle:

"I drove by each of them and eliminated the ones that sounded creepy. “Kid'z on Top,” and “Little Britches” come to mind."

HA! Double ha!

Firstly, Ms. Kasten, I think you have your panties in a twist over nothing. It is very normal for a child the age of your "Smallgirlchild" to observe that there are men and women, and mommy and daddy, and men and women marry and have children. This is basic biology 101. I'd be more worried about the kid if she DID not observe this. It is ridiculous and doctrinaire of you to be trying to impose your angsty liberal paradigm on a tiny child, who can't possibly understand homosexuality at her age.

Frankly, if you are this liberal, I wonder why you continue to live in North Florida -- heck, it's about as conservative as places in the US get, and very Christian as well. Move to Boston; there should be plenty of non-denomenational pre-schools there, and plenty who will cheerfully teach your kid "Heather Has Two Mommys", even though THAT is as physically impossible in the real world as pretending evolution never happened.

Secondly -- your kid does not need pre-school and kindergarten in most places is voluntary, not mandatory. (BTW, not utilizing pre-school is NOT home-schooling; stop being pompous.) If you have an educated, caring parent/caretaker at home (mom OR dad OR grandma, etc.), and a reasonable standard of living (safe clean place to live, enough food, medical care), then a child is absolutely fine being at home, and learning things naturally. The educational system in the world that is universally highest ranked -- out achieves us at an alarming ratio -- is FINLAND. Look it up. In Finland, school STARTS at 2nd grade, age 7. Why does that work so well? Most Finnish moms stay home until then, kids get a ton of one-on-one attention and by 7, they are mature enough to sit still, pay attention and really learn. This blows away all the crap about starting kids earlier and earlier, piling on homework in 1st grade and so on. We don't know squat about how to educate kids anymore in the US; it's a national disgrace.

If you can afford to stay home, and like being a SAHM, anyone as caring and articulate as you are, Ms. Kasten, can be a perfectly good teacher/guide to your young children. You don't need to constantly defer to "professionals", especially when you obviously do not see eye to eye with them.

For what it is worth, Florida like 45 other states (and soon, more) does not recognize gay marriage, and Floridians have clearly voted against it. I'm sorry you disagree with that. But it's the law. That's why we have democracy. You got to vote; you lost. Yours is an extreme minority opinion. Most people acknowledge that marriage is a very specific relationship between a man and a woman. Yes, there are gay partnerships, and many very loving and committed, but they are NOT MARRIAGE. I agree that gay couples need some legal protections -- most are already available if they bother to get an attorney -- and those cases you speak of, where couples like your brother are stripped of property, are indeed unfair, but in order to prevent that unfairness, it is NOT necessary to call a gay couple "married", and indeed, it is very offensive to the majority of us who recognize that marriage is unique relationship between a man and a woman. (Heck, your 4 year old intuitively recognizes this.)

It's time to stop calling people "haters" for accepting basic human biology and millennia of human civilization, rather than bowing to the latest "fad". Please listen to mishima6666; he is both wise and moderate on this subject.

Lastly, gay activist author Dan Savage wrote about exactly this in his most recent book. He has an adopted son with his partner; when the boy was about 5, he came back from kindergarten (a super liberal Quaker kindergarten) announcing that "boys have to marry girls and vice versa". And this was a kid raised by a gay couple! Taught the most liberal dogma imaginable. In a school where he cut his teeth on "King and King" and "Heather has 2 mommies!" WHY? because as with your Smallgirlchild, even the adopted son of a gay couple knows instinctively that human beings are male and female, and that marriage is a unique partnership of that, the only relationship that can EVER produce a unique human being who is made up precisely of half the DNA of each partner.

You do not have to hate -- I DO NOT -- to recognize this basic human truth. Your little one is smarter than you are; listen to her.

Firstly, Ms. Kasten, I think you have your panties in a twist over nothing. It is very normal for a child the age of your "Smallgirlchild" to observe that there are men and women, and mommy and daddy, and men and women marry and have children. This is basic biology 101. I'd be more worried about the kid if she DID not observe this. It is ridiculous and doctrinaire of you to be trying to impose your angsty liberal paradigm on a tiny child, who can't possibly understand homosexuality at her age.

Frankly, if you are this liberal, I wonder why you continue to live in North Florida -- heck, it's about as conservative as places in the US get, and very Christian as well. Move to Boston; there should be plenty of non-denomenational pre-schools there, and plenty who will cheerfully teach your kid "Heather Has Two Mommys", even though THAT is as physically impossible in the real world as pretending evolution never happened.

Secondly -- your kid does not need pre-school and kindergarten in most places is voluntary, not mandatory. (BTW, not utilizing pre-school is NOT home-schooling; stop being pompous.) If you have an educated, caring parent/caretaker at home (mom OR dad OR grandma, etc.), and a reasonable standard of living (safe clean place to live, enough food, medical care), then a child is absolutely fine being at home, and learning things naturally. The educational system in the world that is universally highest ranked -- out achieves us at an alarming ratio -- is FINLAND. Look it up. In Finland, school STARTS at 2nd grade, age 7. Why does that work so well? Most Finnish moms stay home until then, kids get a ton of one-on-one attention and by 7, they are mature enough to sit still, pay attention and really learn. This blows away all the crap about starting kids earlier and earlier, piling on homework in 1st grade and so on. We don't know squat about how to educate kids anymore in the US; it's a national disgrace.

If you can afford to stay home, and like being a SAHM, anyone as caring and articulate as you are, Ms. Kasten, can be a perfectly good teacher/guide to your young children. You don't need to constantly defer to "professionals", especially when you obviously do not see eye to eye with them.

For what it is worth, Florida like 45 other states (and soon, more) does not recognize gay marriage, and Floridians have clearly voted against it. I'm sorry you disagree with that. But it's the law. That's why we have democracy. You got to vote; you lost. Yours is an extreme minority opinion. Most people acknowledge that marriage is a very specific relationship between a man and a woman. Yes, there are gay partnerships, and many very loving and committed, but they are NOT MARRIAGE. I agree that gay couples need some legal protections -- most are already available if they bother to get an attorney -- and those cases you speak of, where couples like your brother are stripped of property, are indeed unfair, but in order to prevent that unfairness, it is NOT necessary to call a gay couple "married", and indeed, it is very offensive to the majority of us who recognize that marriage is unique relationship between a man and a woman. (Heck, your 4 year old intuitively recognizes this.)

It's time to stop calling people "haters" for accepting basic human biology and millennia of human civilization, rather than bowing to the latest "fad". Please listen to mishima6666; he is both wise and moderate on this subject.

Lastly, gay activist author Dan Savage wrote about exactly this in his most recent book. He has an adopted son with his partner; when the boy was about 5, he came back from kindergarten (a super liberal Quaker kindergarten) announcing that "boys have to marry girls and vice versa". And this was a kid raised by a gay couple! Taught the most liberal dogma imaginable. In a school where he cut his teeth on "King and King" and "Heather has 2 mommies!" WHY? because as with your Smallgirlchild, even the adopted son of a gay couple knows instinctively that human beings are male and female, and that marriage is a unique partnership of that, the only relationship that can EVER produce a unique human being who is made up precisely of half the DNA of each partner.

You do not have to hate -- I DO NOT -- to recognize this basic human truth. Your little one is smarter than you are; listen to her.

The idea that what you have described is "teaching hate" and that you can't find a single school in Florida which doesn't "teach hate" strikes me as dangerously paranoid. Your young daughter is the battleground on which your anxiety and tenuous hold on reality are being expressed ('An Archaic, Anxious Look at My Excuse For Reality', your blog's subtitle). I hope she can take it. There is very little between you and the right-wing extremists who invented pre-school satanic abuse scandals a few years ago. Certainly calling all the preschools in Florida teachers of hate is a similar type of exaggeration suggesting that teaching a three year old songs about boys and girls is a practice related to hate crimes, and therefore particularly heinous. Frankly, and with perhap my own touch of exaggeration, I find the photo you show of the kind of world you want for your daughter a bit creepy: two elderly women sharing an intimate moment surrounded by a coven of hysterical and self-congratulatory voyeurs in business clothes. Then you turn around, put on a frilly apron and make pumpkin muffins? No thank you.

Signed, a gay contrarian.

My first thought when I read about the sing-song was, "You've got to be kidding me." My next thought was, "AUGH!!!" And the Osment CD thing is just unacceptable. My God, that's child porn - isn't that illegal??? - but hey, anything for a buck. I think I'll write Disney and tell them they're a bunch of greedy old pervs.

Anyway, good for you. As a non-parent, I can't imagine the challenges, but it sounds like you're up for the fight. Go get 'em!

I take deep offense to that.
I do NOT own a frilly apron.

My "real job" (when I'm not pissing people off by asking silly questions like why the state is paying for religious education) is as a food writer. My muffins send their deepest apologies for my ridiculous and paranoid assumption that marriage should not be defined in a state sponsored preschool.

I'll be putting my tinfoil hat back on now.
The big bad world is so scaaaawwwy!

::Programming Note: I will be closing comments on this piece later this afternoon. I've crashed two different browsers with this piece this morning because of the size and I've gotten some email from folks who are having trouble loading the blog. So, if you'd like to insult me, my family, my subtitle or my muffins, please do so quickly. Thanks!::

Jodi, I'll squeeze this in quick before you close down the comments--I don't want to insult ANYTHING about you! Thought the piece was great, and so was the way you handled the issue. I also found most of the comments thought-provoking and worthwhile. Keep up the good work!

(((((Jodi))))) I'm getting extra hugs in because this world if full of hate, and you my friend are one of the good guys. Never doubt.

Oh, and as a side note: Laurel962; you're an idiot. I could spend a couple of paragraphs explaining why. But I'd just wind up writing the word, idiot," over and over again.

Either way, I wouldn't feel right about using up all the ones and zeros, when in today's environment it's just such a crime to waste things.

And I say again, what a country! If the hatemongers, racists, Republicans, conservatives, and Radical "Christian" Right win, this nation is doomed. So much negative energy and ugliness, and the ugliness is getting uglier.

Racism will be our undoing, and to still be a racist nation, an extremely racist nation, in the 21st century, while hypocritically claiming to be the bastion of equality, justice, and freedom means we will get what we deserve. No great nation is a racist nation. Period.

To laurel 962: First, marriage is a religious concept, conceived as a means of social control. You obviously never read any history. Start with the history of Catholic Christianity.

Second, as a college instructor of psychology for 30 years, including human sexuality, human biology and psychology agree the human race is basically bisexual, although many lean strongly one way or the other on the sexual spectrum. Human sexuality is far, far, far more complex than "only heterosexuality". Again, read your history. Read about the ancient Greek city-states, Sparta and Athens, and their far more natural approach to human sexuality, not to mention the Souix, a Native-American tribe and their acknowledgement of four genders, and then, of course, the Japanese during the Samurai war lord period when Samurai warriors had sexual relationships with either sex, nor was there a word in their language for homosexuality.

You're speaking what I call, "RepublicanSpeak", based on fabrications, distortions, lies, attacks, smears, manipulation of emotion, etc. No real facts, evidence, figures, statistics, or qualification. You must be a big fan of Bill O'Reilly and Ann Coulter, the champions of lies and distortions!!

And yes, YOU ARE A HATER!!!!!!

Yeah. What she said. You shaved butt troglodyte. Ooo. That actually sounds kind of sexy in a prehistoric, caveman sort of way.

Upp, nope, that's not gonna work. Back to the whole Godless heathen thing. Because cavemen and Da cavebitches weren't married. (Cavebitches: The whole gender equality thing hadn't quite gotten off the ground yet. Oh wait. That's right. They were on that whole cooperative effort trip: You hunt. I'll gather, dust the cave, take care of the kids, shove the old folks into a rest cave and send 'em a piece of Mother's Day bark with a cute little Pterodactyl in a bowel of spaghetti carved on it. And you go out and get skewered by a Mastodon.) But lets be honest. Not married, no real commitment. in the eyes of God. How long is that going to last? A million, two million years? Puh-lease.

It was pretty much just Fkthda crusin' with the posse back then.

Yo dawg. Was up homo erectus?
Yo, yo, yo man, (and I use that term loosely,) we gotta come up with sometin' better than that dawg.
Yo Homie, chill.
Okay, yeah. That's better
Yeah, whatever ya homophobe. You and Mktult still together?
Naw dawg, she just my baby mama. Some holy man's bangin' her. (Some things never change huh?) Lets be fair though. They did pretty much have the playing field to themselves until the advent of the modern day evangelizing Congressman and Senators. What's a servant of God to do with so many sheep to flock? Call in some help.

Not like what we have now though, with only 50% of the meant to be married people finding out they were evidently meant to be divorced. I mean, at least some of those were church weddings weren't they? Hey, whata' ya gonna do, right? Some people just refuse to get with The Plan. Let the smiting begin.

Look, I admit. I was with you on the whole, no gay marriage thing, until I found out it didn't mean I HAD to be gay. What a relief let me tell you, because chaps make my ass look fat.

This is a great post and SO important. It's painful to see what a young child can innocently believe. Thanks for writing this Jodi. Your children are so fortunate to have you and The Man has parents.

Whoa, whoa. Whata' ya mean close the comments? I'm only up to erctus, I've got like almost a dozen to go. (Although cepranensis does take a little longer than the rest due to all the really great food from that region. Like Macrophalangia in marinara sauce with some Cretaceous bread.

Besides; crashing browsers are for weaklings. Shoot the curl baby this wave ain't gonna last forever. (I don't know what that even has to do with this. I'm just out of good closers for the day.

Rocket Boy, things have slowed down a bit. Hopefully the Papal Patrol and Muffin Molesters are through for the day. Maybe I'll leave it open.

For you...

To clarify - my decision to shut down comments will not/has not/will never be determined by the positivity or negativity of comments. I have been to the mouth of hell on other posts. You can't scare me. It looks like Glenn Beck's living room, by the way.

Laurel, claiming that only heterosexual marriages are worthy of recognition is not bigotry? I finally married my long term (20 yr +) partner in California last summer. Come on over and see how abnormally we operate.

We're hypersexual, as I'm sure you've been told, so we'll probably try to "turn" you, and we certainly wouldn't hesitate to get it on in front of you. We can't help ourselves.

Our daughter... well, let's just say she was once a chip off the old blocks. She lives in Germany (a Nazi??), and actually got herself educated, which we think is wrong, wrong, wrong. She's married to a MAN, and that just burns me up! We're on the verge of cutting her off because she went against our most solemnly held beliefs, against our agenda to turn all people gay so we can feel normal. She took her master's in peace and conflict studies and wants to work in humanitarian aid. Fucking bleeding heart!

Listen, our marriages are just as valuable as yours, and to state otherwise IS HATE. People who are legally married have many, many more rights than domestic partnerships. For example, we gay folks pay higher taxes because we can't file jointly, so the government is taking our money in larger quantities without getting even the most standard benefits in return. Do you think that would be okay for biracial couples? How about two people from different faiths?

You can holler all you want, but this train is coming into the station, and it will happen in your lifetime. When you're 70, you might have had enough contact with gay people to understand what bigoted crap you're slinging around. If you don't bend, you will be out of touch with the population at large. Think about how racists seem like such throwbacks, how shameful it is for us as a country. You will be in a similar position unless you learn to adapt. What you spout is shameful.

I'd also like to point out the incredible disconjunction in the anti-LGBT movement. First they say that marriage is one teeny little thing that gays shouldn't mind not having, then they say that protecting marriage is the bedrock of civilization.

Fear and hate make people do the strangest things. I feel nothing but pity for someone who truly believes that teaching children to accept people of different sexual orientations sets them up to be molested. That's desperate and I have NO doubt that the commenter truly believes that.

Let's allow these Americans keep their homes, love without fear and enjoy the same rights as everyone else. They have all the responsibilities of other citizens - let's give them the same rights.

Excellent post! Please keep us updated. What happened after the management meeting?
Rated,
Marcela

As someone whose 4 year old foster son is currently in preschool in super-hyper Christian conservative West TX, I can only say yikes. And yes, we worry about this too. And did with our five year old son previously.

"I can’t get her to put her socks on without an argument, a complete description of the desired activity and a diagram." Yep - completely cracked me up - the 4 yr old and I just spent two days arguing about socks! He thinks they're entirely superflous. I don't. I won. Finally....

Laurel962 wrote:

"The educational system in the world that is universally highest ranked -- out achieves us at an alarming ratio -- is FINLAND. Look it up. In Finland, school STARTS at 2nd grade, age 7. Why does that work so well? Most Finnish moms stay home until then, kids get a ton of one-on-one attention and by 7, they are mature enough to sit still, pay attention and really learn."

Some comments. I'm living in Finland.

First:

Most Finnish mothers don't stay at home until the children are seven years old. Some years back we used to have the highest number of working women in the world and still now it is certainly among the highest. Moms normally take the children into a kindergarten here and they go to their work one year after their child was born.

Secondly:

According to the international ranking tests Finnish schooling system is really the best in the world.

Frankly I don't believe much on those international tests. I happened to work in that institute, which did those tests in Finland at that time when those test were introduced. In my opinion those tests especially in the fields of mathematics and natural sciences are just rubbish. The tests didn't measure if the children could really do the exam questions or not, but if they could understand the written problem or not.

It is quite widely accepted that Finnish children are on the top of the world in writing and reading and understanding written texts. But in general in international contests Finnish children are really bad in mathematics. (This has something to do with the thing that writings and writing abilities in general are highly respected in this country.)

Having said that Finnish I think that education in general is certainly with quite high standards. But maybe it doesn't meant that schools or formal educational institutes are that good.

Some more facts.

According to international surveys our children have got the highest dissatisfaction over the schooling in the world. We have got in this country the real 100% literacy. The highest in the world. (But that is probably not because of our good schooling.) Most children in this country learn to read much before they go to school.

I don't believe much on formal schooling.

I studied myself a lot, at four faculties at an university, teaching at the university level more than ten years. So I have got some experience about formal education. If people have got some kind of 'degrees' it proofs mainly that they can somehow read and write. Nothing more. It has nothing to do with their intelligence, wisdom and such things.

I'm not much worried about the thing, if somebody in school or in kindergarten is teaching some stupid things about sex to children. In general children certainly learn about sexuality somewhere else than in school, not to speak about kindergartens. Four five years old children are not so much interested in sex that they would listen the instructors in the kindergarten much if they wanted to teach them about sex, homosexuality and heterosexuality. They have got other things to do at that age. And if they listened they would not understand much about it.

This is an excellent piece. I'm glad it's garnered the attention it deserves. I wonder what compels a teacher to disseminate such a message? And to such little children. Odd. Kudos to you for taking action. Few people would have addressed the problem directly. You are to be commended.