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John Boni

John Boni
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July 03
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Retired TV writer/producer, mostly comedy, but also soaps and children's programming. Blogging because, like everyone else, things are on my mind.

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FEBRUARY 15, 2009 7:51PM

Why Was Dave Letterman So Mean?

Rate: 16 Flag

It's not because he's a Republican, because I don't think he is. 

So the question for me remains, "Why was Letterman so mean?"

I didn't see the Joachim Phoenix appearance until the videos  the next day and  I was as mystified by it as everyone else.

At first I thought it was a hoax, contrived by Phoenix and Letterman -- talk show Dadaism -- and found myself laughing at its absurdity.  My partner, Norman Stiles,  and I had written a number of such spoofs for the  celebrities who guested nightly on America 2Night when we were head writers there.  The Phoenix thing just smacked of comedy and that thought was uppermost in my mind.

As I rewatched it, I still felt it was a put-on, but one that was engineered by Phoenix alone.   After all, he does have a movie coming out and by all accounts he's remarkable in it.  Not surprising, that.  He's a very gifted actor, as this "burlesque" demonstrates.  So I thought.

However, his personal history doesn't suggest someone as puckish as that,  even in the cutthroat service of promoting an upcoming film.  Also, if this were a charade I think the cat would be out of the bag at this point. 

Just as a measure of a conspiracy theory's nuttiness is the absence of leaks, this sham should have had a few whistles blown by now, unless assassinations and mysterious accidents shut them up,  and that hasn't happened either.

So I'm left to assume this was all legit, Phoenix inexplicably presenting himself at his saddest, most tortured, heart-wrenching  worst.

And he walked into a buzz saw.  Letterman brutalized him.  He was cruel.  He turned the troubled actor's appearance into a mockery.    He continued kicking a man who was clearly down ... for the laughs.   He didn't go to a neutral corner or stop the fight.  He held the thumbs-down like a Roman emperor deciding the fate of a wounded gladiator.

I understand Letterman's predicament -- he had a segment to fill, and it was going south, fast.   I saw it happen on Carson and on Thicke-Of-the-Night and other shows I'd been associated with.   But Letterman could have cut the segment.  As he did many years earlier with an appearance by Bill Hicks that the network thought too controversial at the time.

Once Letterman realized Phoenix was a psychological no-show,  he didn't make attempts to mollify the uncomfortable situation.  Even people on So You Want To Be A Millionaire were offered a lifeline.   No offer like that by Letterman.  There was no rescue attempt.   Instead, he kept pummelling the guy.  This was just too juicy to pass by.

It was disgraceful.  Aiding and abetting a public humiliation.

I don't know the kind of person Letterman is.  I only know the persona of what I've seen through the years on television.  Having been in the business of comedy, I was privy to many stories about him from those who worked with him.  They don't count for me.  I wasn't there.

But I was there, in front of the TV,  for many of his shows and didn't like what I saw.  Unquestionably witty and funny, he nevertheless struck me as  mean-spirited and arrogant.  The kind of comic who thinks, This joke is funny and if you don't laugh it's your problem.

He's mellowed a great deal and that now makes him watchable for me.  I look forward to many of his opening comedy bits, even those still grounded in mockery of others, but the bits seem friendlier, more neighborly, you might say.

The Phoenix interview, though, was Letterman redux and I was embarassed for Phoenix but mostly for Letterman, who allowed himself the easy pickin's  of this low hanging comedy fruit.

I was reminded of a Craig Ferguson monologue a few years ago on the occasion of the Brittany Spears shaved head/tattoo weekend.  As host of CBS' The Late Late Show he said, after seeing photos of Brittany in that condition, he reconsidered making jokes at the expense of the "vulnerable."

"Tonight, no Britney Spears jokes. Here's why: The kind of weekend she had, she was checking in and out of rehab, shaving her head, getting tattoos. That's what she was doing this weekend." ...

"I'm amazed that not poking fun of somebody has become a news story."  ....

In a later interview, he said "For me, comedy should have a certain amount of joy in it .... We shouldn't be attacking the vulnerable."       

He added that he didn't  know whether Spears is an alcoholic, but she clearly is suffering.  "I don't want to talk about sick people like that"

"I think there's an edit button missing somewhere," Ferguson told E! entertainment news anchor and The Early Show correspondent Giuliana DePandi. "I think that as a society, we should look it up every now and again."

An edit button.  As Craig and Casey Stengel said, "You could look it up."

Letterman could have used the edit button on this unfortunate segment.  For Phoenix' sake, but mosly for himself.  

It was mean.

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I disagree that Dave was mean. Let me rephrase: I think throughout the weird interview, Dave moved from confusion to kindness to mockery. That last, of course, is mean, but it was not evident throughout the interview. There's no question in my mind that near the beginning Dave was blatantly attempting to help JP out by praising his movie and his performance in Walk the Line. The audience's laughter throughout--as though Dave were in fact mocking him at this point when he was not--represented sort of a disconnect that set the stage for JP's own confusion and what I perceived to be inner hostility. In a few places, Dave took advantage of a golden opportunity, mainly b/c he's a comedian who knows weird when he sees it. Not to make excuses--I think there was definitely some mockery going on, just not as much as you think.
I didn't read that much into it, which is not to disagree, I just didn't.
I thought JP got in a lick having Dave set up the film clip.
I figure Dave mocking at the end was something a lesser host wouldn't attempt, and couldn't get away with. An expression of show biz pecker size.
I thought the beard/sunglasses/ man in black combo was a bit different. I wondered if he was on his way to a bris.
It was a strange interview.
John, Here is my take on this segment. First off, in whatever light this will come to fruition, I don't think Letterman was that mean. I mean JP comes onto Letterman's show, and at first I thought he had definitely hit the crack pipe just before his introduction. I have sat this same way myself, having just snorted or smoked the last of the stash, and not been able to communicate in any way, except to make guttural attempts at conversation, and that was with people I knew! So, I was at first convinced that this was the case. Believing that, I thought Letterman was relatively easy on the guy. He put himself out there for any abuse Letterman could give him. It was open season, and JP was le fou d'jour.
Now, I have since heard, and a few os'ers were of this mind set, that the new career that letterman referenced, and JP purported to be a career in hip hop, is part of a bit JP will use in the new movie he's interested in doing. It's about an actor who quits acting to begin a career in hip hop. That seems a little more likely upon second thought. It could be that the joke was really on Letterman. Thanks for a good post rated for a kind heart
I agree with you about early Letterman. He was such an arrogant asshole his humor suffered. You have to like a comic a little to laugh with him.

Three things have happened over the years that profoundly changed his style. He was knocked senseless by NBC (and then Carson not stepping up to help him). Second, he got out of a bad relationship, into a good one and became a clearly happy father. And let's not forget the life-threatening, life-altering heart surgery.

From his first opening monologue on CBS to today, Letterman's been a different guy. He makes fun of himself. He's dealt with Paris Hilton and other mindless bimbos with gentle charm. He's dealt with hostile and/or bad interviews with elan. His monologues are routinely clever and self-effacing. It's clear he connects with the audience pre-taping.

I only saw the video too, but Phoenix looked stoned and hostile, maybe gettin into hip hop character. Dave did his best and then seemed just to throw up his hands in defeat and go for whatever victory he could. I'm with Lainey, some kind of disconnect.

I wondered why they didn't scrap the segment but I don't think these days they can cut 'stars' that easily, legalese-wise..

We love to watch Letterman act like a kid in a candy shop, with a mind like a steel trap. It let him down with Phoenix. I wonder if he'll bring it up Monday. My guess is yes. Let's see.
i didnt see this interview, and now i am glad.
I haven't watched the entire clip, but have seen and read enough to know that I agree with Sally and Lainey :-)
I completely agree with you and found myself in a minority both here and at home. Your impresson mirrors my own and Letterman was utterly, mean spirited and lost sight of what a good tv host offers to his guests. Cheap shots by Letterman has altered my esteem and respect for him and for his show.
Joachim Phoenix didn't deserve this humiliation and walked into an ambush by Lettman's making. He should be ashamed and apologize to JP. He lowered the standard of his professional ethics and that of his show with this depressing and rude interviewing style.
I've always found Letterman's comedy to be mean spirited, which is one reason why I've never been a fan. He has mellows some over the years as you correctly state but I'll generally find something else to watch when he's on.
Lainey, Junk1, Sally, Kelly...

It's a matter of perception, of course, the degrees of meanness, that is, what was perceived as such and what wasn't. There certainly was some mockery, I'd say a lot, given the context of Phoenix' condition, where even a little is too much, IMO.

Don't know why Phoenix wasn't vetted in the green room. Certainly the producers and/or head writer or someone back there could have warned Dave somehow -- in fact, it's there job to do so, and my guess is they did. They'd be remiss if they hadn't. If so, I come down harder on him.

Cathy, Parrothead

It seems we're of the same mind about Dave and the show. I enjoy watching much of his stuff, I really do. But this went over the line. I feel sorry for Phoenix.

Paul ... yes, a very strange interview.
I'll never forgive Letterman over his savage interview with Mr Rogers. No one behaves badly toward a savior of my childhood.

On a side note, we were just reading about Mr Rogers meeting the Koko the gorilla for the first time. Apparently, she watched his show and, upon seeing him, began taking off his shows. Such a better way to honor such a wonderful man. I cried when he died.

And I love Craig Ferguson, such a thoughtful and funny man. I tivo his show if only to watch the monologue. I wish more talk show hosts were of his ilk.

Thanks for the good post.
Hey John! Finally a post I feel comfortable about commenting on. Only I don't have anything to add here. Bummer. Still I do read your work. Just thought I'd let you know. Thanks!
I would have thought that Letterman, years of experience, would have given him some better skills to deal with the situation. "Calling him the unibomber" was really crass. Never did like that kind of sardonic humor anyway.

I agree, he was mean.
The unibomber comment was mean. I thought it was a cheap shot.

I only saw the clips because I don't stay up to watch Letterman anymore (got to old and have a day job now). I'm sorry I'm missing Craig Ferguson. I've seen quite a few clips from his show and I think he's great.
Michael ...

Thanks. Sorry I've not given you enough grist. You're a good guy.

In any event, I only have a few more posts before I pull up stakes here. Talk to you later.
Thoughtful as always. Rated.

Isn't it true that these TV promotional appearances are often required by an actor's contract with the producers of a new film? If so in this case, I think that iconoclastic actors like JP and Sean Penn now and Marlon Brandon and James Dean then rebel against the shilling and almost try to make their appearances as unpromotional as possible. That's clearly their right, but, as you say, Letterman (and I'm no fan of his) also has a job to do.

I really can't gin up a great deal of sympathy for either of them.
I didn't see the whole tape of the show. Letterman has always struck me as sort of a yanker anyway. My guess is that the guest was half plowed and Letterman's usual smarmy way took over. I don't think he has ever been genuinely funny.
P.S. turns out we are semi linked John. Knew one of your cameramen from Fernwood 2Night and later on Doc S.
I think you point out an important problem under the surface, which is that we have coursened our culture to the point of becoming dangerously close to being inhumane in a very general sense.
It is always a fine edge when we poke fun at each other, because humor is so often something bad that happens to someone else and it lightens the tension and you need to be a good sport about it, but then, some people have a harder time stopping, and everyone has seen this in private life, when someone gets down on hard times, and then everyone comes gunning for that person, as if unconsciously, they want them dead, and the fact is, they do, they do want them dead, because there is a predator in us from the African savanna that wants to destroy others that are weaker, and if we forget leashes like social conventions, you gradually are laying the framework for a war of all against all, because civilization hangs by a more slender thead than we want to think because ignoring that fact makes it easier to walk around, but we forget that at our peril. Everyone needs an off switch and boundaries, and it seems like over the last fifty years, we have gradually been losing both, which is the real source of America's deepest problems, economy and Russia notwithstanding. rated.
Gordon

Unfortunately, in our modern, global 24/7 era, this is kind of shilling is how is has to be done. Fads and popularity switch and change so quickly that the window for your particular "item," whatever it is, is small, short and closes the moment the next thing comes along.

Don ...

I've been railing personally at the coarsening of our culture for years now. There was an article in The New Republic many years ago called "Defining Deviancy Down," which posited that the level of what we consider deviancy is getting lower and lower. It's why there is so little outrage at genuinely outrageous things and why shame has disappeared from the scene. There is none anymore.

Alsoknownas...

What a coincidence. It's been so many years, I'm not sure if I remember the names of many of the crew. Whoever he is, tell him I said hello and hope he's well.

Kaysong, Stellaa, Pretened

It's nice to know I'm not alone in my reaction to that appearance. I actually now enjoy aspects of Letterman, but it's mostly the stuff that the writers have come up with -- the unusual and strange premises. Once they finished, I'm off to the History Channel.
I didn't feel JP was that pathetic nor DL that mean. The whole thing was just uncomfortable. Dave made a good joke about JP last night, saying that he liked him and boy could he take a punch.