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MAY 29, 2009 9:12AM

Must See Sotomayor T.V.

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sotomayor

 

When I first read, this week, that New York's Second Circuit Court of Appeals was in the process of deciding  Arar v. Ashcroft, I immediately surfed over to  C-Span to check out Sonia Sotomayor's performance in the two hours of oral arguments presented by both sides.

What I found was some of the most interesting television I've seen in a long time and a case that is mystifyingly absent from the media debate about Sotomayor's nomination.  The issue: the rights of  torture victims to sue the U.S. government for damages.

In brief: Maher Arar is a dual Canadian-Syrian citizen. Returning from a family vacation in Tunisia to Canada in 2002, he was detained during a stopover at Kennedy International airport because he was on a watchlist provided by Canadian Intelligence.  Held in solitary confinement for two weeks, denied a lawyer, or the right to contact the Canadian embassy, he was flown to Syria in a chartered plane.  There he was  tortured for close to a year, while asked the same set of questions he'd been asked while confined in the U.S.  When Syria eventually released him, he returned to Canada.

Turns out the evidence for placing him on that watchlist was flimsy. After an exhaustive investigation, the  Canadian government has since issued a formal apology and 10.5 million in damages.

Arar is now trying to sue the U.S. government, and former U.S. attorney general John Ashcroft. First because he  remains on a watchlist and continues to be banned from entering the U.S.  And second because he believes that his extradition was part of a conspiracy between the U.S. and Syria. 

Arar's first attempt was rejected when the U.S. invoked a "state secret" privilege, claiming that the case would force them to reveal documents that might damage the government.  This is why the case is being appealed.

Arar's lawyer has tried to convince the court to  invoke a "Biven's Action." This is an action  used (rarely successfully)  if the court believes the federal agents have committed such a profound violation of constitutional rights that it can grant damages even if there isn't  a statute permitting it. The government is arguing that as a foreign citizen Arar doesn't have contitutional rights.

But sitting in the courtroom with Arar's lawyer (Arar is not there, remember, because he's not allowed in the U.S. to be present at his own trial) is a huge herd of elephants.  All the other victims of "extraordinary rendition," a policy introduced under the Clinton administration that permits the  U.S. government to fly suspected terrorists to countries that have no laws against torture. No one has successfully sued the government for this practice, though the charter plane companies are currently being sued.

 In this video clip from the oral arguments (click on the red Flash button and the video should pop up)  the government lawyer is desperately trying to get the the court to pass off the responsibility to congress.  Arguing that it's really up to them to decide if a new law needs to be put in place. 

Furthermore,  he argues, the case is so inextricably bound with matters of foreign policy that the courts should  stay away from it, to ensure separation of powers. 

Sotomayor, the only justice not physically present, is being beamed into the court via satellite, giving her a Star Trekish immensity.  Watch as she cuts to the chase and sets up a chain of questioning that pretty much dismantles his argument. 

"So the minute the executive raises the spectre of foreign policy, national security, it is the government's position that is a licence to torture anyone?" Sotomayor asks. "Licence meaning you can do so without any financial consequence. That's your position?" If you think Sotomayor is being hard on this guy, keep watching the judges who follow her.  The look on Ashcroft's lawyer's face during the next few minutes of intense and dismissive questioning by this panel of judges is better than anything I've ever seen on Law & Order. 

However, this was back in December of 2008, before she was nominated by a President who last week announced vague plans to introduce Indefinite Preventitive Detention Without Trial. This would enable the government to hold suspected terrorists for indefinite periods without access to legal council.

 I'm watching this case because I'm a Canadian.  But if I were a U.S. citizen I'd be watching it for a whole bunch of other reasons. Namely, for clues to how Sotomayor is likely to rule on the similar cases that will no doubt be coming her way if she is appointed to the Supreme Court. 

UPDATE:  Today the New York Times leads with a story about this video.  But the serious issue is, apparently, not extraordinary rendition, but Sotomayor's snippy tongue

How disappointing.

 

UPDATE #2:  Thanks Saturn Smith, for bringing my attention to this NYTimes editorial published in early  February   "The Unfinished Case of Maher Arar".  This editorial calls on Obama to address this case.  Which he hasn't done. You'd think Sotomayor's involvement in the case would be taken by NYTimes as a good reason to bring this issue up again.  Certainly it seems more important than a feature on how she interrupted his government's lawyer. 

 

UPDATE #3:  Apparently the NYTimes decided mid-day that Sotomayor needed a headline makeover.   So  "Sotomayor's Sharp-Tongue Brings Up Issues of Temperament" was changed to "Sotomayor's blunt style brings up issues of temperament."   Great. When's the story makeover due?

 

UPDATE #4:

Thanks Norwonk for this embedable clip.  I've left my original link, however, because it shows Sotomayor's line of questioning but also  gives you two other judges to compare her too.  This clip is taken from a C-SPAN show which, again, examines it in the context of her "style" and not the case. 

 


 

 

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Anyone out there have advice on how to embed a video clip from C-SPAN
How coincidental and serendipitous. I suppose there are people working behind the scenes to torpedo the appointment to avoid conviction. This may be very rough.

Great post. Thank you!
Thanks for the C-SPAN lead -- very interesting, indeed. Well, if Sotomayor decides gov't cases using the same rationale she did in Center for Reproductive Law and Policy v. Bush, 304 F.3d 183 (2d Cir. 2002), which presented a challenge to the "Mexico City Policy,"
which prohibits foreign organizations receiving U.S. funds from performing or supporting abortions, then pro-choice supporters are in for a rather rude awakening. In that 2002 case, an abortion rights group (along with its attorneys) claimed that the policy violated its First Amendment, due process, and equal protection rights.

Sotomayor's opinion was lackluster, and relied on the Second Circuit's earlier decision in Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Inc. v. Agency for International Development ("AID"), which dealt with a virtually identical claim. Sotomayor rejected the group's First Amendment claim on the merits and held that the plaintiffs lacked standing because they alleged only a harm to foreign organizations, rather than themselves.

She may put on a good show, but when it comes to push and shove, I don't think Sotomayor has the wisdom, the fortitude and backbone to stand up to government abuses. Her judicial record is a patchwork of sometimes "liberal," sometimes "conservative" rulings that leaves the impression she lacks the ability or muster to protect our constitutional rights.
I'm hoping, and hate to say this out loud, that Sotomayor is not going to be a sacrificial lamb as the first nomination attempt.
Honestly, Daniel. I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt, but there's another part of the video that disturbed me. She was pretty rigidly attached to the idea that this case might set other precedents that would be exploited by foreign citizens. I'm hoping that they come out with a judgement before the nomination, because that's what's going to decide it for me.
I've written whitehouse.org (and other places), expressing my view that she is NOT the change the silvery tongued one promised us.

More and more every day, he repudiates we who voted for him.

(rated)
The Arar case deserves a lot more publicity in the US than it's been getting. It was disgraceful on the part of both countries involved. The government side-stepping reminds me an awful lot of the Watergate era and terms like "executive privilege".

That said, I think Sotomayor would be a breath of fresh air on SCOTUS.
Well, sadly I haven't seen a world-class leader or visionary coming out of the U.S. since the days of JFK, Robert F. Kennedy, Hubert Humphrey, MLK and Cesar Chavez. The common thread was their belief that there is no such thing as 2nd class citizens, and that everybody deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. And they were willing to stand their ground in their beliefs. Cesar Chavez was a Mexican-American farm worker, labor & civil rights activist, co-founder (with Dolores Huerta) and leader of the United Farm Workers ("UFW") in California. He was the son of migrant workers who worked under horrendous conditions at the mercy of greedy farm owners. And though you may think he was uneducated, he surprised many with his moving speeches and intellect.

I'm afraid that "markinjapan" is right when he writes that "she is NOT the change the silvery tongued one promised us." In fact, the silvery tongued one is looking more and more like Bush, III. Our U.S. Constitution doesn't really mean anything anymore. We, as U.S. citizens, have fewer rights than ever before.
It's hard to get publicity for a case when he's not allowed into the U.S. In fact he was named as one of Time magazines top 100 most influential people. But he wasn't able to collect the award.

I'm disgusted with this administration's treatment of the case. Napolitano has made it clear they have no intention of taking him off the watchlist. Now this weird "indefinite preventitive dentention" plan...I don't know what to think.
Hey Daniel. I fasted for Cesar Chavez when I was a kid. That was the good old days of Catholic left wing activism.

Now it's just everyone covering their asses, it seems.

If anyone does take the time to watch the whole two hours oral argument through, my favourite judge is Guido Calibresi. He just cuts through the bullshit in a way that you never see anymore.
Just want to point out that the NYTimes led with this story today, but the issues is, apparently, not torture, or Obama's new policy that will no doubt further entrench extraordinary rendition...it's whether or not Sonia Sotomayor is a bitch.
Juliet, can you post the link at least to the video? I want to watch it.
Of course the NYTimes disappoints.
Stellaa. The link is to the video clip. Just press on the red Flash thing and it should pop up.

Since this video is now starting to make the rounds I might link to that. The problem I have is that the only thing that's being show is her being bitchy, and not the two other male judges right after her who pummel this guy just as hard. And I refuse to give in to that newscycle.
Juliet I agree with you, I hate to give the scum fodder. I keep trying.
http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=282779-1, you can find the flash video here, you cannot embed.

Great work Juliet.

Get a load of this as well, now they call her wealthy, AP story cause she makes 200,000, remember when making 200,000 was working class and could not be taxed? http://www.c-spanarchives.org/library/index.php?main_page=product_video_info&products_id=282779-1

Can we make this or another the center of the sexist racist hysteria.
Ok, I am watching it, all the judges have sharp tongues and interrupt. What makes her "bitchier". I just read the NYtimes crap. Are these people tone deaf?
You've reposted my link now! Why does C-Span make everything so hard.

As for making this the center...wouldn't that be great! It really pisses me off that a story that should be about a man (among many) being illegally tortured is being sidelined by a minute of one female judge being bitchy towards the government lawyer.

Meanwhile the debate rages on about Jodi's post.
She is not going to please everyone, but she is driving the Repubs crazy and driving them further from the mainstream. I find her acceptable and a good choice. She has the capacity to grow.
The worst part about it is that I read the blog that the NYTimes has basically got that story from. They're all too f-ing lazy to watch the entire en banc court case. It's so rare to see that many judges in a room. And there's a reason. IT'S AN IMPORTANT CASE! Yeah, everyone's getting a little heated. IT'S ABOUT TORTURE! It's about one of the most profound violations of human rights that exists. And everyone's supposed to be nice, I guess.
Juliet, you have such an eye, there is something about the confluence of this barrage by the right wing and the OS post stuff.

Lazy is the word, I cannot believe it, all the judges are always like this when they are a panel. Have they never watched or heard such arguments? What a bunch of lazy people we are.

I am pulling my hair.
Every assertive woman is a bitch to a Republican. Until Sarah Palin, they never cared about how women were presented in the media. After Sarah Palin, they wailed and moaned about the sexism--oh, the unfairness of liberal sexism. 'Scuse me? Who came up with "feminazi"?

It's all distraction--horrible, mind-numbing distraction.
Amazing

I agree with both your points Juliet

1. Violation of civil liberties is by far the greater of the two issues

2. Our society still holds to a double standard with regards to women and assertiveness.
I've hit Digg and Reddit on this Juliet. It will be interesting to see how (if) this unfolds. You do excellent work!
Another great post, Juliet. Thanks for connecting some dots that many in the media seem unable or unwilling to...
Thank you for not giving up on getting the details of this shameful episode in Canadian and U.S. history out to the larger world. What happened to Arar was illegal, tragic, and emblematic of so many things that are wrong with governments that forget they are accountable to the people who elected them.

Has this been digged and stumbled upon?
Thanks Emma, and thanks Cartouche for digging it. It would be great to get this story out there. The Obama administration has been unforgiveably insulting in their treatment of Arar. Napolitano has virtually called him a terrorist, and implied that Canada simply isn't as vigilant as the U.S.

I would love to see some pressure put on the administration to at least take him off the watchlist so that he can attend his own trial, if it comes to that.
I am gagging with disgust at all Republicans, I can't even look at my dad because of this yuck...I really hope she doesn't turn out to be a sacraficial lamb!
This is excellent. Thank you for bringing this to light.

Monte
Thanks for posting this. You are being substantive in a world that often lacks that quality ;0)
Phm, you've missed my point entirely. Why is the story her bitchiness and not the case. In fact the article concudes that there's not story. The lawyer who she supposedly was hard on says he didn't think she was hard on him. The person they question in her defence, Guido Calebresi was one of the judges who followed...and I adore him...but he is bitchy.

The real story should be about a men being tortured, not being cut off when they're trying to make an argument.
Thanks Monte and Dorinda for taking the time to read this. I know it's more complex than some of the other issues being raised about Sotomayor.
I agree with everything you've said (and Stellaa has said) about the NYT take on this and the focus on her "sharp" manner. Bleh. Totally disappointing. Though I will give the NYT credit for their earlier editorial on the case (from February), which somehow make this story all the more frustrating, because clearly someone there gets the import.
Excellent post on an important and unfortunately underpublicized case here in the US of A. The NYT article was pathetic.
It's kind of unfortunate that liberals are circling the wagons around Sotomayor out of necessity. Frankly she is not at all the 'liberal counterweight to Scalia' that people are imagining her to be.
Saturn, get back to work! But thanks for the editorial. I'm still not letting them off the hook, because I think there is an important story about how if Sotomayor rules for Arar it may contradict Obama's new policy of indefinite detention. Seems to me that's a more substantial angle than snippiness.
I'm not sure how to embed...but I couldn't click on. However, based on your post, and some of the comments, especially Stellaa's, it is infuriating that anyone is focusing on the "bitchiness" and not the case. Reminiscent of the treatment of Hillary Clinton. Thanks for this Juliet.
Uh...Phm...if you actually spend some time reading my post, I hope you'll see that there is a new development. Last week Obama announced plans to bring into a congress an action to make it legal for the U.S to hold people (read terrorists) indefinitely without access legal council on grounds that they might commit criminal activities in the future.

His supreme court nomination is currently sitting on a case involving a man who was held for two weeks without access to legal council and then shipped off against his will to Syria where he was held for another nine months.

Coincidence?

Maybe not. But certainly worthy of a story.
Also, Phm, I would like to point out that the fact that there has been no news is in fact news.

The editorial NYT calls for Obama to address the case. That was in the begining of February, he's done nothing. Meanwhile his secretary of homeland security has implied that Arar is a terrorist.

And his nominee is supposed to come out with a ruling on a case where Obama's government has acted atrociously. I think a lot of people would agree that this is news.
Phm. Fair enough. But they may be coming out with a decision sometime soon, and if people aren't aware of the case then they aren't going to be prepared to judge whether or not she meets their criterion for being just. It is certainly fair to point to his case and inform people about it as they ready to make their decisions about her, because it deals with many of the important issues of the day.

And not so much a question of being lax. It's seems weird to me that so little attention has been given to an extremely important case that she is currently in the process of deciding.
If that's what you're interested in then, then let me direct you to the earlier portions of the video where she questions Arar's lawyer. This is easy to find. All you have to do is plug in Sotomayor's name and it tells the exacts minutes where she speaks. That part is quite interesting too. It shows her being quite rigid about the possibility of this case setting precedent, and is quite informative in that regard, since this seems to also be an accusation against her.

Honestly her qualifications for Supreme court aren't my concern, since I'm Canadian. So I didn't really write about that.
And finally, if you watch a good portion of the two hour video, you will see judges interrupting the lawyers over and over and over again. In fact the chief justice has a huge kniption fit at one point because of all the interrupting. You will see without a doubt that this was a NON-STORY in ever sense of the term.
Press the little x thing. It will unlock it. Or at least it does for me. Or you can go to the google videos that the NYTimes supplies with their stories (the kniption fit is at the begining of part2 is pretty funny, given the lead paragraphs in the story. It happens near the begining of Ashrcroft's lawyers arguments. ) Sotomayor questioning Arar's lawyer would be in part 1.
Great post, Juliet. The "bitchiness" thing drives me crazy. I am still on the fence about Sotomayor, so I appreciate the video. Thanks.
Phm, that's a great point about the technology challenges she faces. It's also worth noting, however, that's she's asking yes or no questions, while he insists on elaborating. She seems to me like someone who wants to narrow in on the meat of the issues. She has his written brief and understands most of his arguments already. It sounds to me like she just wants a clear answer about the the most important point. Is the government trying to weasel out of damages for torture victims? Because there is a possibility that this case will open the door to that. If it's not their position that they can't be sued for damages, then what are they worried about if this case goes forward?
Great post, Juliet. Important post.
Very informative. I was totally unaware and out of this one. I appreciated all the comments too.
Excellent work -- the Arar case is so important as an example of someone who must have an avenue for legal redress (as the Convention Against Torture makes clear). And as you say, Sotomayor's attitudes about the rights of torture victims to redress, and about a "preventive detention" scheme, will be hugely important if she joins the Supremes. We can only hope that she will be more of a shining light than Obama has been on these issues.
The Arar case is one of the most egregious abuses of the Bush administration. It's one thing to talk about rendition and detention when dealing with prisoners picked up actively engaging in warfare against the US, but quite another to apply it to a man returning home from holiday. That there have yet to be ANY substantive charges filed against Arar should tell us everything we need to know ... if he was dangerous, then charge him with the crimes that make him dangerous. If you have enough evidence to detain him and ship him to a Syrian prison for a year, you have enough evidence to convict him in a criminal court in the glare of accountability. If you're not able to charge him with any substantive crime, then what could possibly make him dangerous enough to ship to a Syrian prison?
If you want to embed the clip in your post, you can drop by my post:

http://open.salon.com/blog/norwonk/2009/05/29/could_someone_please_tell_republicans_about_the_google

You'll find it as clip number four. Click the "Embed/Link" button at the top of the player and copy the HTML code from the lower box in the window that pops up.

And if the NYT can only see a "snippy" judge in that clip, I pity the poor fools...
Rated. A nice summation but I have my doubts about the relevancy of her decision in this case to future decisions. The Arar case (which I've written about for several years off-and-on) is a travesty, yes, but it's also an out-and-out international crime. The so-called "legal interpretation" which supposedly justified extraordinary rendition has been completely and ignominiously debunked.

If it was just a matter of money, I wouldn't be surprised if the govt agreed to settle (as Canada did) just to get the thing out of the news. But a) it doesn't seem to have to worry about the US media embarrassing it by telling the truth about this story, and b) if it admitted guilt by settling it would open the previous admin to serious criminal charges, a consequence Obama has steadfastly refused to allow, first with the pretene that he's too busy doing other things and couldn't possibly consider it until his second term, and then with the pretense that the public wouldn't stand for a "witch-hunt". Since he is clearly intent on retaining the "state secret privilege", he just as clearly doesn't want to see a precedent set that might mean his facing jail himself at some time in the future.

The powerful protect the previously powerful because it's a way of protecting themselves.
Cool...you embedded...!!!
The Ahar case was b.s. It sounds to me like she asked the right questions here.
Mick. I think you are probably right about its relevance to other cases. At least I hope you are, since Arar's lawyer is actually arguing that they should feel free to award him damages because the case is so unique they shouldn't worry about setting precedent. (If look at the first part of the case it's interesting to see Sotomayor grill him on that.)

However, here's the thing that is setting my spidey sense on alert. Why is Obama suddenly talking about creating an action that will permit indefinite preventive detention. Why? What's in it for him? Are they planning on holding terrorists indefinitely, or are they trying to cover the hole that exists without extraordinary rendition.

And this morning there's talk of moving her nomination along as fast as possible. I just don't feel good about this. And I don't think the media should either.
I wish this was getting more media attention here within the U.S. Thank you for posting this.
great job spreading important information!
OMG - she's Judge Judy and the sky is falling. EGADS!!! Why do we even have a flippin' press corps if this is the best the NYT can do?

This whole business of a judge interrupting a lawyer is blatant and utter nonsense. Have these people never been to court?

---
on a serious note, thank Juliet for bringing this case to our attention and trying to hone in on what the real focus of discussion re: Sotomayor should be.
I am utterly disgusted by the NYT article this morning. I have never known a judge who wasn't a little imperious in their own courtroom. When trying to get to the truth of the matter, I want a constitutional jurist to be aggressive and ask the tough questions. I appreciated how she handled herself on the small clip you posted and very much appreciated your analysis of her questioning in this important case, which makes me feel much more positively towards her (I have been somewhat worried about her strong pro-business stance).

Another CNN broadcast, which really shows her in action - a moot court held at Georgetown law school at which Justice Roberts serves as one of the other jurists -

http://www.cspan.org/Watch/Media/2006/02/09/HP/A/3399/George+Washington+Law+School+Moot+Court.aspx (I would post it if I could figure out how to embed it).

Rated and reddited, with comment.
What a GREAT post!!! Thanks Juliet!
great post Juliet. I continue to be dismayed by the Maher Arar case and others and the failure of both governments to do the right thing.
This was an excellent post, Juliet, as always. Top shelf. You are right on to point out the folly of mainstream media (NYT) and silly headlines regarding whether she is a bitch or not. This is still the sad state of affairs--characterizations of powerful women as either bitches or whores or saints or ugly man-haters, etc. etc. -- especially if they are making a compelling argument.

Have missed several of your posts as I've been busy with school and want to say that I'm happy to come back and read this from you. Great job!
Illuminating post!
This is why I supplement my reading of the New York Times with a reading of Juliet Waters.
I'm surprised that there seems no awareness here of Big (Closed?) Salon's Glen Greenwald. He has written about Arar, Sotomayor, the press and politics brilliantly right here (well, over there).

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2006/09/21/maher_arar/index.html
and
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/11/16/brennan/index.html
among others.
Bill, glad you finally made it. And thanks for the links.

I certainly would never say that Arar's case has been ignored in the U.S. As I mentioned in one of my comments he was chosen as one of Time magazine's 100 most influential people (though he wasn't allowed into the U.S. to collect the award.) And as Saturn Smith pointed out, in February the NYTimes called on Obama to address this case.

What I find curious and disappointing is that nobody seems very interested in re-visiting the case in light of two new developments. First Obama's recent decision to support a policy of indefinite prolonged detention, and Sotomayor's nomination. It's very, very clear now that he wants to sweep this case under the rug because he has no interest in opening the door to charges against the previous administration. And, sadly, the media seems happy to play along with that.
I commented from a different computer at a different location, but, if those gets there, maybe the problem is over.

I may have missed the comment you refer to Juliet.

But I certainly agree with you about Obama's (or as I have taken to calling him, Obushma) intent.

As to the media, sad, but now long true. They are merely court stenographers—and I don't mean as in District Court, but Louis XVI
I commented from a different computer at a different location, but, if those gets there, maybe the problem is over.

I may have missed the comment you refer to Juliet.

But I certainly agree with you about Obama's (or as I have taken to calling him, Obushma) intent.

As to the media, sad, but now long true. They are merely court stenographers—and I don't mean as in District Court, but Louis XVI