Good post! You have really brought up alot of good issues here.
I don't think women are very greedy, but having less money is not just having fewer luxuries.
It is power and also when you are in company, some people treat you as less important.

Very interesting post Juli.

"I feel disempowered on a regular basis by my paycheck. And, you know what? That kind of sucks."

true that

Well said. Especially the point about empowerment.

You make some important points. You also highlight the Decision Maker's problem of perceiving the full value of those who implement the decisions and keep the company running smoothly.

I would agree with you on many points, especially being underpaid for a job that allows the person you work for to do their "job" without tending to the daily minutia of it.

This feeling of being disempowered is a real one, and yes, it sucks big time!

Yup.

A lot of people arguing against Equal Pay point out the career differences men and women make. What they don't realize is that so-called Pink Collar jobs, such as Administrative Assistant, tend to be lower paid regardless of the skills required to do them and their true value to the company.

Owl let me know about your posting and I've appended it to my open call.

Nice post, Juli!
I rate it for it's relevance.
When I was out there, in the work force, probably 30 years ago, I had a job as an assistant mgr. of a chain restaurant that did well over $1 million yearly. The majority of those $ came in on my shifts, however the asst. mgr. of a different store, who brought in less money, but was a male, made $10,000 more yearly.
When I confronted the area mgr. about this, in a very nice way, he said, "Julie, you're not serious are you? Everyone knows men work harder than women!" and walked away shaking his head in disbelief, apparently at my stupidity.
Dig that shit

Thanks ali- unfortunately money often equals power. I wish it were not so, but there it is.

Thanks for stopping by OE. I feel like there's something behind that "interesting" ;-)

Thanks Brian. Here's to winning the lottery?

Thanks Owl.

Thanks Stim- for years I believed my job less important. I've finally realized I was just as stressed out as many higher paying jobs and for what? Bleh.

Thanks Buffy- yeah- an assistant's job can be incredibly stressful and as the saying goes "poop rolls downhill" - so it often lands on the underlings.

Thanks annimal

Thanks Jon! Thanks for doing this open call also- obviously I have some feelings about it- thanks for letting me air them.

Good grief, Julie- seriously? That is terrible. Restaurants can be the worst for this crap. I see so many women working as waitstaff in diners and low-ticket places and the high-end restaurants are frequently an almost all-male staff. Frustrating!

It totally sucks. I determined if I were to have money, I would have to have a successful husband because with my college degree I qualified for....retail sales, bookkeeper, assistant manager...all low paying female dominated positions....and then the lowest paid position...stay- at-home-mom.

amen.

I think though, that equal pay is typically meant to refer to two people who have similar jobs. Having the same degree and entering two different professions and the resulting pay disparity does not create an unequal pay situation.

That being said, daughters should be encouraged to also look outside "pink collar" jobs and sons should not be dissuaded if they are interested in a field that is typically occupied by women.

Well said, Juli. I just commented on Owl's post how angry I am that we even have to fight this war for wages any more. rated

I love this series, thanks to all of you writing these stories.

everything you say is true...it's unfortunate that admins especially have a really hard time breaking out of their role. Sometimes it is quite deliberate, the execs not wanting to lose the comfiness of the great support person who makes it easier to do their job. Once, I wanted to promote my admin into a manager position. I had to raise hell and my credibility took a hit. A disgruntled exec left and hired her away at 100% salary increase to be his Director of Operations at his new start up. I was super pissed - we lost her b/c the powers that be in my company didn't feel comfortable looking at an admin any other way. It angered and disgusted me.

Great post, Juli. It's a harsh reality that most indispensible employees are likely the least paid.

I bet at this point, with your experience, you could get into some kind of administrative management position. You and your husband are a team and your work as a mom is extremely valuable to the team too. I think you more than deserve a new kitchen! Rated for very worthy!

Sigh. Even after all this time, this is so typical.

Thanks for visiting my blog Juli.

I've was over here earlier, but left because I wanted to say something clever. I don't think that's going to happen so just let me first say I'm sorry about your work/income situation. It sucks. Jobs typically occupied by females pay less, pure and simple.

My case is somewhat different. I make 1/2 of what my husband does and I have a bag full of degrees, probably a few more than he has. Part of this is my own fault. We moved for his career and disregarded mine. I have "made do" with what I could find where ever we happened to be, which never really was quite optimum for me. Finally, after years of working part time and raising children, I'm doing fairly well career-wise but I will never catch up to him pay-wise or title wise. Let's be honest here: Fortunately, I'm not planning on leaving him or I would be in deep trouble (you know that women often fall into poverty once divorced?).

Part of the answer is sexism. But a good part of the answer in my situation was the road I allowed myself to make on behalf of my family.

denese

As an adjunct English composition instructor stuck in the basement of the ivory tower - where a disproportionate number of us are female, I feel this way all the time. Solidarity.

You sound balanced and smart about not equating salary with worth. I learned this lesson at the end of my undergrad years 22 years ago, when all the kids whom I'd carried through English and other humanities classes--helping with papers and studying and explaining concepts--turned to me for resume and cover letter help. They went off on interviews for lucrative accounting and engineering jobs and I was stuck with waitressing and, if I was lucky, proofreading jobs. But truthfully, I attributed all this to my English major, not to my gender. I'd have to think a bit about the men I know who majored in English. Let's see, one went to law school and now owns his own firm, the other went on to get an MBA and is a sales manager for Microsoft.

Anyway, thoughtful post. I agree with all who say that equal pay is not just about equal pay for literally the same work; it's clear that the "feminine fields" like ad min and teaching and daycare and social work--support fields all--pay less in general. I don't think they are "worth" less in society. I think this is a time-honored tradition of sexism.

Now that I've made it clear I wasn't a math major (and in fact I have a t-shirt that says English Major: You do the math"), I'm wondering if I got your figures right. Because if your husband makes 10x what you do, I would think you could afford that preschool. Just sayin' :)

I almost can't say anything for fear I'll say too much. There is of course more than just gender, but that's a huge part of it. My husband and I are technical writers (or I was when I was working). With 10 years more experience, I made $20 less. I was very good at what I did, probably better than him. Before he became a tech writer, I made more money, but he quickly overtook me. I just consider it "our" income. I tell him he's gotta pay the Latina tax on that white man's bonus that he's getting, and I'm only half kidding.

you said this so extremely well. back in the day the early feminists asked for equal pay for equal work. i can't get my mind around the fact that we are still facing this problem decades and decades later. it all seems to depend on whether you have a profit center job or an overhead job. and, like you, my skills have often been more in the overhead area. thanks for sharing this thoughtful and moving piece. love love lvoe

No important comment from me, just...

yep

My God. It frustrates me to no end that woman are still feeling that they are less, deserve less and take it. I grew up during the 60's and 70's believing that I didn't deserve things; became a secretary, yes that's what we were back then and went of to get an MBA to work in advertising as an exec. We fought to give women the right to feel worthy, but I guess we aren't there yet. After having children, daughters, I stayed home, got divorced (not always a bad choice and can be rather lucrative is you do it right) and am now an administrative assistant making more than I ever did in advertising. So, recognize your value and stand up for yourself. Stop letting the outside world give you your value, and value yourself. One day at a time.

I'm the male in a similar situation. I'm about to leave a job that I truly love because I can make a lot more money than my wife and we need the money these days. So, the fact that with 20 years of experience that my wife works as an underpaid admin is tough not just on her but on our entire family.

I will be adding a lot to our family income, but at the expense of a long commute, lost family time, lost sleep, etc.

She's way better than what she gets offered.

So now I'm not a happy camper.

You left out a couple of important parts to your story. What does your husband do? Did you do some of the things that women can only do like stay home and have babies? While these things are important in life, they take away career advancement thus pay.

I'm in what you would call a "male" field. There are lots of women who do this. They make the same thing the men do, because they do exactly the same work. Not close, or parallel, exactly the same work.

The other things that upset me here are in the replies.

"(you know that women often fall into poverty once divorced?)." and "I stayed home, got divorced (not always a bad choice and can be rather lucrative is you do it right)".

If you believe the first one them you should talk to my first two ex's. I would love to have their lifestyles now. Neither one has remarried but both live off my gravy train. The first one took it to being an RN and a DON at a large medical center. The second went out and bought a new car and house while I'm trying to figure out how to live on $100 a week, well a little less actually, after she got her cut.

Can you imagine what it was like for my sons to come visit and see how their dad had to live while mom cried if the check was late?

They are expressing their views now. Mom is starting to look like a money grubbing ho, and dad looks like someone who is working his ass off to pay her. If I can't make it home to see them, I get their support, mom is pissed because she can't go out, and they are old enough now to see what is going on.

I would love for things to be equal. But if you want equal them ALL things that are controllable must be equal. Granted there are some things that will never change, I can't have kids, but I did stay home as a house hubby for a year with the MGH.

Yup, she was pissed about that also. I worked 90 days a year and made more than she did at the sheriff department. I did a small restaurant turnaround and sold it.

So after she spent all that money, objected to my next retail business and made me sell my half to my business partner, who is now living the easy life off it, I had to go back to work.

Let things be equal.

You nailed it, Juli. Perfectly said. I used to make more than my Spousal Unit, and it depressed the hell out of him. He couldn't function very well, either in his field or at home because he felt he was living off his wife's charity.

Now the shoe is on the other foot, thanks to a career change for him. The kicker is that I have a BA and he only has some college. It makes me ill.

Fifteen years ago I made more than my wife did but I did all the cooking and a lot of the cleaning and shopping. Now she makes twice what I do and I still do all of the cooking and cleaning and shopping. Where's the justice in that?

Juli--

In the book, "Women and Madness," there's a line that says something like, "Women are forced to make choices in a way that men never have to."
I’m a Hispanic woman who sprang from the belly of the barrio. I had to fight my own family to go to college. I went to a prestigious private college that set me back a few $Ks, but I PIFed all my student loans by going w/out a car for 10 yrs. I've now been in my professional career field going on 26 yrs. When I finally bought my first brand new car, I paid cash for it and still drive it 8 yrs later.
I too started as a clerk-steno in the federal govt, even w/a degree and experience; I actually used my shorthand back in the mid-80s. I took the job b/c I was out of work and had to pay the rent. But years of hard work and extra hours paid off; I’m now in a middle-mgt position that pays very well for what I do and where I live.
I’m also single w/no children; I got away “clean” from a short-lived, disastrous marriage. This, after my XH stole $27K from me in the equity of my first home b/c he wanted a quick sale from those proceeds to buy our home. I left it behind in the divorce decree b/c I believe in starting fresh. I’m now buying my own home, my second, w/my own $$.
My point is, I think as a woman you’ve gotta decide: do I want my own family at the expense of my professional life? It’s a tough choice, but I don’t believe a woman can “have it all.” By trying to “get it all,” the only one who suffers the ultimate cost, professionally and personally, is the woman.
Kids were never my heart’s deepest desire, so I gave that up willingly. In retrospect, that’s what saved my professional life. But like I said, I consciously CHOSE that b/c I wanted a career.
But what I’ve found equally confounding and infuriating is WORKING for women. They have no loyalty to each other.
Right now I work for 1 broad (military) who consistently favors my peer (also in uniform), and guess who gets favored? Both are only concerned w/their next promotions; nevermind that the job still needs to get done, and that I’ve been doing it well lo these 20+ years. Forget having original ideas b/c they’re just reassigned to the favorite.
It blows bad enough that it’s tough to break out of that pink-collar ghetto. But it blows harder when it’s WOMEN who’re holding you back. Especially when they’re younger than you, and it’s b/c of YOUR hard work and perseverance that THEY’RE even in place!
Anyone out there, especially women w/credentials, who believes there’s no such thing as age and gender discrimination, hasn’t experienced it—yet. Believe me, as you approach age 50, it starts rearing its ugly head—and generally from those younger and far less experienced than yourself.

Been there. Done that.

There has always been a "pink collar" portion of our workforce. Any job labeled as "administrative", "support" or "backoffice" with almost exclusively female staff falls into this category, and is undeservedly, poorly paid.

The best way to overcome this is to take the skills you've developed, and apply them to something that is not in this job category. If you're good with people and self-motivated, think sales or consulting?

You may have to take a step back to move forward, and it may be something you won't be ready to do until your children are more independent.

I'm now in client development in an industry known for being highly competitive. Best thing that I ever did for myself.

It's just a fact of life that the market values different occupations differently. If you want to make more money, go into a profession that is valued more highly than admin.

Griping about the unfairness of admins making less money than computer professionals is an attitude that can only hold you back.

The whole piece assumes that your difference in pay is _only_ a feminist issue, and asks a question that is alien to the logic of capitalism: "How is that not worth every penny my husband is worth? I can no longer accept that I am worth less."
There is one basic way that capitalism defines "worth", which is by the market. If at the pay offered the company can find people to do the work, the market rate is what you get, or less. (For the company management to pay more than the market rate is against the financial interest of shareholders, and thus illegal -- under company law.) Trash collectors get less than you do, for similar reasons. It's true that an anti-female bias is there, and modifies the market: it's good to fight that, some progress has been made, more needs to be. But in (for example) keeping everybody healthy, trash collectors contribute more than administrators, so should they be paid more? Not by a market definition of "worth". The obscene money paid to bankers _is_ the market rate, so it _is_ what they are "worth" by that rule.
There is enormous appeal to "From each according to their ability, to each according to their needs", but to get it we would not only need an anti-capitalist revolution, we'd have to find a way to make a socialist society deliver that. So far, no socialist society has.
Equal pay gender rules will not make you level with your husband, unless the company can replace him at the same cost as they can replace you. That's not just, but capitalism does not start from justice, it starts from the market. If you want to change that, you have to challenge more than patriarchy.

Hi Neighbor!
Isn't this the constant dilemma? If a women is a mother, she has to make some tough choices regarding her career, her children and her financial contribution to the family. This leaves us in a very vulnerable position. What happens to us in case of divorce or worse? What happens to us when we're retirement age and we need social security? Do you work part-time at an office, but spend every other waking moment caring for your children? As caretakers of the next generation of workers, artists, leaders, etc we receive no compensation, and in the minds of most employers little credit. This has resulted in many women, like yourself, seeing a huge pay discrepancy for their work outside the home. Perhaps, our husbands' tax dollars would be better invested in American mothers who strive to raise healthy children, who will grow into productive members of society, rather than supporting the over 700 foreign military bases worldwide. http://www.alternet.org/story/47998