I have often thought this would make a gutsy book title, although, I knew it would assure me a seat at the kiddies table when visiting the in-laws in the Deep South Bible belt for holidays. Or, if my writing had any audience, it might be the rage for all right wing evangelicals to use as fuel for their 21st century witch burnings with me at the center – I don’t like heat, I prefer the rain. Even worse, in my scariest, worst-case-scenario visualizations, I would become the Salmon Rushdie of the Christian conservative world (without all the critical writing accolades), and I prefer awards for good citizenship rather than stirring up controversy.
So, why now? Why tromp out this evocative title, although obviously on a less grand scale, for any kind of audience? Because I am at a place in my life where I feel "the truth is the truth is the truth." Not a single title, or opposition to it, can change the blessing of knowing my truth. I am ready to have my voice. I’ve earned it.
THAT FELT GREAT TO TYPE. I have an older keyboard when I work in my office, late at night (or early in the morning), after my daughter, the “rook” (here-to-forth known as) is fast asleep in her bed. It makes the nice clickety-clack sound – I like it so much I often wish I could plug it into the Apple laptop just so I can hear the noise. So, I’ll type those really important words for me to hear again: I’VE EARNED IT.
I can almost hear my mother-in-law ringing in my ear right now, “well, just because you know your truth, doesn’t mean that so-and-so is wrong.” Where does this perfunctory wisdom come from? Over thirty years of being a teacher is a wonderful excuse for her – but it still irritates the hell out of me as it reminds me of what I find in a lot of conversations, a lack of critical thinking and mutual respect. Yes, I can believe my truth to the fullest of the moment and still be open to more truth! What I find is very few people are willing to do the same, most notably, those in the byline of this title, Christian evangelicals. Also, to my mother-in-law who I adore terribly, this by no means makes you wrong, in any way – please still invite me for the holidays, and let me sit at the big table.
~
The sad part is I don’t think on a whole evangelicals are “wrong”, certainly not always in principle. It’s the application that leaves a lot to be desired. I do my best, although not always successfully as it is a terribly hard habit to break, to set aside the right –vs.-wrong paradigm and just listen. What I have found is so much anger coming in my direction when I am not immediately willing to agree? Agree to what? Well, agree to anything that fits into “their” world view. There is always something oppositional happening, and I struggle to listen for the roots of this, I yearn to understand what it is which makes us, oops sorry, me, so different in their eyes.
I don’t want to bring more anger or divisiveness into this world; God knows we have enough of it. What I do want to do is speak from the center of myself which whispers the essence of a truth I have fought long and hard to know. From many of the far eastern religions, Christianity holds no claim to the term Christ. Even from contemporary 20th century Christian writers, Emmet Fox being an excellent example (see The Sermon on the Mount), the term “Christ” is referred to as a supreme state of consciousness, not as a term solely endowed to Jesus. Mr. Fox suggests humans can strive to achieve this state of Christ consciousness through the teachings of Jesus, as he achieved the supreme state, a realized Christ. Then comes the next sticky little point, which teachings of Jesus do we follow to get there? Wait, how can there be more than one set…
Christ clearly commanded two things: Love God and Love Your Neighbor. Beyond this, history, interpretation, justification, and viewpoint (not to mention a whole lot of controversy) are mixed in. I find when I try to engage the Christian “right”, I get scripture touted at me, with little personal experience to ground it in. It reeks of law keeping rather than divine, universal truth. I fail to understand how this shares in the message of Jesus’ love? When I try the intellectual route, suggesting they read Richard E. Rubenstein’s When Jesus Became God, or a number of other selections, I get hateful looks and told my faith is wavering. When did free thinking amount to an inability to have faith?
I am, at present, at a total loss of how to proceed on this path of understanding. I have failed to find the middle ground as there always seems to be an argument worth standing on versus common ground to build upon. As a political advocate, this challenges me. Yesterday, evangelicals took their latest launch against health care reform in view of the “good name”. It seems abortion is their platform once again. What would Jesus say about this? Love God and Your Neighbor, right? Hmmm…it doesn’t seem there is room for “us-vs.-them” dichotomy in His teaching schema. I haven’t read that in one lesson or interpretive on his teachings? Maybe they choose to focus on a perverted interpretation of Revelations much like terrorists focus on one Sura of the Qu'ran?
I know, I know – scripture, protect life – I’m ready. We can go several rounds about this. It is flat out annoying that one religious argument, which has no place in legislation as it is bares false witness to what our Constitution was founded on (separation of Church and State), is going to rear its head in an effort to block legislation this country desperately needs to move forward. Yes, this seems like logical energy to expend to me, find the crack in the foundation and drive a wedge in it versus trying to legislate for stipulations which satisfy the common good. Instead of admitting defeat and trying to educate, or bring forward workable solutions, keep throwing rhetoric, fear and hate into the mix. Jesus would be proud.
I hope Obama comes out with his boxing gloves on tomorrow night; he’s going to need them.
~
At the end of this summer, I was on my way home from an appointment. While leaving via the alley, I saw a group of parents in camp chairs grouped around a garage of sorts drinking coffee. As I turned the corner, I saw about seven or eight middle-school aged boys, their children, carrying pro-life signs, a few with the horrible preformed fetus graphics on them. Desperation flooded over me, I wanted to get jet out of my car and overcome them with rageful words: “DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE RAPED?” It was an uncontrollable, panic ridden moment – and then it passed. They are just children of course, pawns in a controversy better left to adults and a day when my “cooler head” could prevail. It did break my heart, for every one involved, and makes me wish for that common ground desperately.
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WS
I feel so bad I cannot discuss religion anymore with anyone.
It is the we are right, so you are wrong mentality. Never works, either.
I have been hit over the head to long with the christian bible and hearing how wrong I am to ask any question whatsoever about that book.
Good points.
I often find myself coming to similar conclusions - if, in fact, Jesus did exist and he was the savior, what would he think of all of this? That's the question that comes to my mind when I, as you put it, allow myself to be open to more truth. To allow myself to put myself in the thought process of the person with whom I'm having such discussions.
I am guilty, however, of getting angry at someone recently who I was having an debate with about abortion. He is very Christian, very conservative, and his view is that the baby is completely vulnerable and has a right to live. When I brought up 11 year old girls being raped by their fathers, and subsequently becoming pregnant, he shrugged. He. Shrugged. This is a pretty reasonable person on other levels. At that point, there was nothing I could say. But I can not fathom that this is how most people feel. It is irrational, illogical, and almost sinister.
Sorry for the long comment, but your writing got me thinking. Great job.
I've been part of the problem for the last 25 years ... now I want to be part of the solution.
Stay tuned - I'll be interested in your thoughts. Ms. Kate raises good points that I want to thoughtfully consider. She deserves a thoughtful reply, not a "shoot from the hip" reply.
WS
thewicked ppear...FWIW, I'm impressed
@WS - looking forward to it; I am VERY grateful to your presence here on OS. It shows that we all can hold our personal beliefs and still stay open to life's experience. You are helping me do that.
@mission - I understand. I started my own look - without anyone's oversight. It was the best thing I did for myself. It improved my critical thinking process, my spirituality, and belief in humanity. I now see religion as the ABC's to God - a place to start, and, unfortunately rarely (except in some Quaker communities) a not-so=great place to hold community. Then I found people willing to discuss outside the walls of the churches...the universe just made them available once I was willing. I am deeply grateful.
@Lisa - The way I see it, Anger is God too. Why wouldn't we get angry once in awhile? I've looked for the scripture which says - so and so emotions are God and the other set are not...for myself, I have decided it's what I do with that anger. One of my favorite quotes is comes from Gandhi when he said, "I am the angriest man in India." Look what he did when he channeled that anger! :)
@Robin -the ignorance to spew hate is nothing short of "wrong." I hear you, words fail me at times, and it seems that the right/wrong paradigm only works. Where I said on a whole they are not wrong - I was referring to their central "desire" for God, a spirit life. The delivery is mad freaky - hence, my piece. Thanks for your contribution.
The first element of Christianity to consider is what it is and what it isn’t. Christianity is a relationship with the living God through Jesus. It is not a list of things to do and not do. This raises several questions. Why is this relationship necessary, how do you establish the relationship, and what happens when you establish the relationship.
Why is this relationship necessary?
When man was created, he was given the ability to make free choices. That freedom included the right to choose against God. You can’t have freedom to choose if you can only make right decisions. So man was given the ability to choose to follow God’s instructions or reject His leadership and “plow his own field” so to speak. Man chose to follow his own way and made the key decision to rebel against God. When that happened, man suffered spiritual separation from God. It is that separation from God that had to be repaired. The old testament laws were established to show that man can’t measure up to God’s standard. Animal sacrifices were to provide a “covering of sin” for a period of a year. Those sacrifices could not actually repair the breach, only cover man’s sin for a short period of time. In order for God to be able to fellowship with man, man had to have the breach actually repaired and not simply “covered”. That is where Jesus comes into the picture.
How do you establish the relationship?
Jesus became human in order to provide the perfect sacrifice. He didn’t sin and thus provided the perfect sacrifice. His death on the cross repaired the breach. He died so you don’t have to. His death provided the way to have a right relationship with God the father. Becoming a Christian simply means you accept that sacrifice on your behalf and you enter into a new relationship with God.
What happens when you establish the relationship?
God created man as a tripartite creature, spirit, soul and body. Another way to say it is, you are a spirit, you live in a body and you have a soul (mind, emotions and intellect). It is the spirit of man that died when the decision to sin was acted upon. Adam’s spirit died when he decided to rebel against God. All men since Adam were born with the spiritual DNA of Adam, in other words, sin. When you make the decision to accept the sacrifice of Jesus’s death, God gives you a new spirit, one created in the likeness and image of God, thus we get the term “born again”. You are also given the Holy Spirit to teach and guide you and help you grow to become more Christ-like.
That is in a nutshell what happens when you become a Christian. Now the decision to become a Christian is predicated on Jesus Christ. Actually you should say Jesus the Christ and be a bit more accurate. Christ means “anointed one”. Jesus was God’s chosen one or anointed to be the messiah. So your post is correct in saying Christ isn’t Jesus’ last name.
The entire Christian message rises or falls on Jesus. Do you believe him or not. He is one of two things and only two things. He either is the Son of God or he is a liar. It is not possible for Jesus to be a good “moral teacher” and not be the Son of God. If he isn’t the Son of God, Jesus is a liar, pure and simple. If He is the Son of God, then we have to deal with what He said and did in a new light.
The entirety of the Christian message is wrapped up in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. If He was not raised from the dead, then Christianity is one of many spiritual options you could have to choose from, although not a particularly good one because the claims of the Bible would be false and who wants to follow a known false religion?
Did Jesus die and was He raised from the dead? That is the question that separates Christianity from all other religions. If He did rise from the dead, He is God. If He didn’t rise from the dead, He is not God.
One last word concerning Jesus sacrifice and the subject of sin. One of the key elements for considering Christianity is sin. Sin is what separates man from God. However, you need to understand the role of the Holy Spirit in all of this. Jesus speaks to the role of the Holy Spirit in the gospel of John.
John 16:8-11 "And He (the Holy Spirit), when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.
It’s the Holy Spirit’s job to convict of sin and He works to convince the world to believe in and accept the sacrifice of Jesus. He does not give us a list of do’s and don’ts. Christianity is about freedom and walking with God through life and helping others along the way. Too many people think Christianity’s role in life is to do this or don’t do that. It’s not. It’s a walk of freedom and peace with God.
I want to leave you with Jesus’ own words as his invitation to walk with him from Matthew 11:28-30 in the message:
"Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me - watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you'll learn to live freely and lightly."
WS
So, while Christians can obviously perform wonderful works in the name of God, they can also do horrible things in the name of God. When I see people who hate gay people because "the bible is against it", it again frustrates me. They can't see that their hate for those who are different is the antithesis of what is taught in the bible, as you say, living freely - in my mind, living freely without harming others.
In most cynical terms, I have often though that many people are just not bright enough or self-governing enough to interpret religion properly and practically. You have obviously proven me wrong in this sense.
I am undecided as to what I believe, I was raised Christian, but have had questions. Your interpretations are far more positive than what I've seen elsewhere.
Lisa
I want to add that I have been on the wrong side of this issue for years. I think a book for anyone interested in exploring the actual meaning of the Gospel should read "The Naked Gospel" by Andrew Farley. The way he lays out the truth of the Gospel has helped me clarify my relationship with God. I would highly recommend it to you.
I look forward to your journey, and hope I can be of help!
WS
Considering all the religions in the world, I was trying to think of one I'd think he'd endorse and that becomes another thought track..what religion would Christ commit to?
blame: the sink.
but it's done! )
I believe this is what being a Christian means "to you" at the 50,000 foot level. I believe this works for you with all my heart, I do. And, before I go on, let me commend you for having one of the more evolved, and open-hearted views of Christianity that I have heard in a long time (with a theological interpretation to support it). To say all Christians agree with you, would be a discredit to those who have suffered under the wrath of their judgments (which includes me). Also, there wouldn't be a need for so many denominations, would there? All that being said, I do admire your stance.
Where you lose me is lines like:
"He is one of two things and only two things. He either is the Son of God or he is a liar. It is not possible for Jesus to be a good “moral teacher” and not be the Son of God. If he isn’t the Son of God, Jesus is a liar, pure and simple."
I don't agree. Why not? Because he doesn't fit the theological story you have created for your belief system and/or the Christian theology otherwise? What personal experience within your own life (not something someone told you from a pulpit or is written in a historically disputed book) do you have to base your findings on? In other words, how do you KNOW? And, before I hear "faith", let me relay a bit of my personal experience to show you what I mean.
----
I believe, we in the tripartite creature of "body/mind/spirit", based upon the body being the physical (reactive to the "control center" of mind - body parts), mind (control center, inclusive of emotions and intellect), and spirit (ineffable - soul, essence, light is the best word I have).
I can take parts of the Bible, mainly all references to "light" and quote it as reference to the divinity within man which is God - the infinite within us, therefore making us all GOD, all divine, all brothers and sisters, and all brothers and sisters of Jesus (in the book I referenced in my post, Rubenstein chronicles the 4th century struggle to create Jesus as a God deity rather than a human who became a realized Christ). There are many books on this.
So, what then with the theology? You pit Christ to be either God or a liar? Could it be that the story is the lie? Could he have attained such a realized place in his life he was capable of miraculous things like miracles? Have there not been saints since then who do the same within Christianity? Could there not be 100 possible shades of gray in between?
This is my belief - after A LOT of hard trials down this road, including being a member of a Christian church for six years. I watched my own pastor fail to be able to keep with the law keeping, and watching, exponentially, the failing of Christian churches around the globe be able to do the same (Catholic priests, gays in the clergy and congregation, and so on...). So, if the laws don't work, why does the story? It is just a story...Jesus can still be divine, I can still reach for my highest self through his teachings, and he can still have risen from the dead and ascended as a miracle which is available to all who want enlightenment, or as you say, to become a Christ. This consciousness is available to all.
My story: I was in Texas after my father-in-law passed. We had already been in crisis mode over some horrific realizations I am not at liberty to post in a public forum - I'll just say, they are of your worst nightmares. More was revealed by our daughter to us about the crisis we came to Texas with a couple evenings after we lost my father-in-law. A "friend" of the family came to sit with me, as every one was so out of sorts with all that was going on. After an hour of listening to me cry of confusion and absolute despair, she decided to speak to me about Jesus. Since she had been patient and listened to me when I needed it, and because I was exhausted, I returned the favor. At the end, she asked me to accept Christ as my personal savior. I was a bit stunned, as she new my beliefs were more open-ended and I felt the situation was a bit off-timed for this, so I simply said "while I appreciate where you are coming from, I can't be dishonest, and I don't know that this is the path for me." Noticing the anger in her face, and because I was vulnerable, I quickly added, "I would appreciate your patience with me." Her reply was, "I'll be patient with you when you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal savior" and then stood up and walked out of the room.
I was already at one of the lowest points in my life...I went into my bedroom and began to pray. I had a direct conversation with Jesus and I didn't need her or her story or any theology to lead me to this. I could see and feel and speak the truth to him and I knew how to conduct myself the rest of this trip and it was as if in direct communion with not only Jesus, but other amazing teachers which behold the essence of God. I went on the spiritual quest of my life after this and have never looked back.
So, when you say lines like,
"However, you need to understand the role of the Holy Spirit in all of this. Jesus speaks to the role of the Holy Spirit in the gospel of John."
I see the "you need to" part as preaching. I see the evangelicalism in this. I don't "need to" anything. I am blessed and content and healthy and peaceful and thriving and aware I have a full range of tools to deal with whatever life offers, and I will do my best to not judge it as good or bad, just an experience on this path towards enlightenment.
I am glad we all get to find our own way WS, and I do respect you are finding yours and it seems to be working quite well for you. My post was about sharing the idea that the term "Christ" isn't owned by one religion - and once again, this subset tries to lay claim to it in a moment of righteousness which brings about divisiveness rather than harmony - I hope the story is worth it (their interpretation anyway).
But seriously Kate, this is something a lot of us think about. It's never black and white. One of the reasons I decided to be an agnostic rather than an atheist, is that atheists, in their absolute certainty that there is no God, are not much different from fundamentalists, who are absolutely certain that there is one.
A lot of interesting points here. I'm reading it again. R
What I outlined was the plan of salvation as it is presented in the Bible, not my particular version. Christian denominations such as Baptist; Methodist; Assembly of God, Lutheran; Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholicism agree on the basics. Man sinned, God provided Jesus as the sacrifice for correcting the sin problem and by accepting His sacrifice, you receive eternal life. The differences between these denominations are usually in how they interpret things such as baptism and other “procedural” processes. Should there be different denominations? I think so. I think the various choices you have in Christian denominations represent “diversity” in man’s choices on how to worship God. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I think one of the things I’ve discovered in leaving my old “house” is the rich diversity that exists among my fellow travelers. You being a great example. Had I not left the GOP, I most likely wouldn’t have had an opportunity to exchange ideas with you. So I think the knife of diversity cuts both ways here, and I think it slices the Church such that you have different variations of the same theme. I’ve been members of each of the denominations above except Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholic. However I’ve worshiped or been in all of the above and as I said, we agree on the basics. The things we don’t agree on aren’t of significant importance to the basics of salvation.
My analysis of Jesus and His character fall along only one possible fault line. He either is the Son of God or He is a charlatan and a liar. There is no other choice. He can’t be a “good moral teacher” and not be the Son of God. Here are some of his statements from the 10th chapter of the Gospel of John:
"I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again. ... "No one has taken it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This commandment I received from My Father."
"My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. "My Father, who has given {them} to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch {them} out of the Father's hand.... "I and the Father are one."
“... do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God'? "If I do not do the works of My Father, do not believe Me; but if I do them, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."
You either believe what He said, or He lied about it. There isn’t any middle ground. A good moral teacher wouldn’t say these things unless they were true. If He said them and they are not true, then He was and is a fraud and a liar. This is why I say there are only two options when considering Jesus of Nazareth.
My personal experiences have been and my testimony is today, Jesus truly is the Son of God and I accept the Bible as the Word of God. Now at this point in my life I’m 57. I became a Christian when I was 16. Here I will only quote to you one of my pastor’s favorite sayings, “Only by looking back over time can you see that God doeth all things well!”. My experience has been He is true to His word and I am living proof of it. I don’t want to encumber the comment with great details of my testimony but will be glad to share more in detail with you in a message if you would like.
John 8:12 ¶ Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life." The Bible is clear that God is light, and it is also clear that the only way to receive the life of God is through Jesus. There is no reference in the Bible to God being in every man and thus every man (and or woman) is God. I’m not sure what passage you may be referring to. Can you tell me which one you might be thinking of?
You ask if the story could be a lie. I judge Jesus to be true and His word real. I believe He is the “Lamb of God” as John the Baptist called Him. So no, I don’t believe the story is a lie. I believe He died and rose from the dead thus establishing his claims to be God as true. There is no gray area that I can think of. Leaving the old “house” has allowed me to see that life has a lot more gray in life than I had previously thought. That was apparent to me almost immediately. Concerning Jesus being God though, I don’t see any room for gray. He either is or he isn’t. If you judge the story to be untrue, then He isn’t. There is no possibility of Him being a little bit God.
You asked a great question about the law. “If the laws don’t work, why does the story?” The law doesn’t work because the law was given to show man he can’t be good enough through good deeds or following some pre-written code to measure up to God’s standards. Thus Jesus came as the “Lamb of God” so we could accept His righteousness and stand before God clean and spotless. I refer you to Paul’s epistle to the Colossians:
Col 2:6-14 ¶ Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, {so} walk in Him, having been firmly rooted {and now} being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, {and} overflowing with gratitude. See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
The story of your father-in-law passing away is sad. Not only because of losing a loved one, but during a very stressful time, some person used the Gospel to hammer you. I’m so sorry that happened. There was no excuse for that.
My remarks about the Holy Spirit weren’t meant to sound preachy. A Christian needs to understand the important role the Holy Spirit plays in his or her life. Jesus outlined his role in the life of the believer in the gospel of John. The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Trinity. It is his job to help you to conform to the image of God. If I sounded preachy, I certainly didn’t aim to!
The Biblical definition of Christ is “anointed one”. Jesus Christ is simply saying “Jesus the anointed one”. As a Christian, you are an anointed ambassador of God’s kingdom here on earth so I would say any born again believer would be an anointed one as well.
Look forward to hearing from you!
WS
It would take me an entire book to reply to this - seriously. I do appreciate your fervor...but this is not something a "comment" reply can aptly encapsulate, nor is it really where I want to spend my time. This isn't a cop out to explain my belief system to you, nor does it make it any less valid than yours (because I don't have a book to quote it to you from).
The reason I brought up denominations is your first section question/reply, with DNA and all, did have some interesting interpretations I never heard in my studies of Christianity being a member of both the Catholic and the Methodist faiths. So, I wasn't implying they don't all agree on the basic tenets of Jesus' position, as that is the Christian foundation as you said, but I do believe they differ on more than the rituals. They differ on social and moral standing often. They differ in temperment. That is also what I was referring to. It is more than what intellectual information they provide for me, it is also about what *feeling* is offered in the denomination.
This is all my opinion and experience: Yes, I do believe in Christ's death and resurrection. I believe it in the framework of consciousness - in ascension. I believe in the ability to become a realized Christ - like Buddha, Babaji, Zarathustra, etc.) I don't think Jesus is the lie, I think the way man has interpreted his life is the lie. In the last 2,000+ years He has been the most evolved being to walk this planet and what he teaches is attainable to all. However, even his teachings are often misinterpreted for one very BIG reason:
The Bible is read literally and not metaphorically.
This is the main reason I see why the "story" behind Jesus' amazing life is so misunderstood, manipulated, and mistreated.
As for the scripture you quoted, I interpret it much differently than you do. I read it as if I am Jesus, first person, as if I am doing what he is saying, not be the sheep and follow him. This results in a life where I may "be" just like Him. Therefore, "the Father is in Me, and I in the Father."
As far as John and Col, I stick to the words of Jesus in the Bible as the preeminent words to follow. The others are interpretations, many of which were not even "alive" when Jesus walked the earth, and are offering their viewpoint without direct experience. Thus, a lot of law keeping comes out of those books.
You have been a Christian for a LONG time. I respect and admire your commitment to that, and I am not trying to say you are wrong. It just isn't what works for ME. So, when you say it is one way or the other, it sets up that "us-vs.-them" mentality which I believe is so unbecoming of the evangelicism of your faith. It is the foundation in which the "right wing" political juggernauts come from. It is divisive - that is not what Jesus was about, to me.
I have just offered you the shade of gray I live it in, by how I interpret the Bible and Jesus' life. Who is to say I am wrong? I gave you a experience from my life of how I have traveled a path with many pitfalls thrown in front of me (alcoholism, a son who was murdered, childhood abuse, etc.) with dignity, and the occasional outburst, in which I can then ask for grace and diligently clean it up. I live in integrity to the best of my ability.
It will be hard to continue this dialogue on such a grand scale for many reasons...as I don't have 30+ years as a Christian as my experience and you do not have the experience of studying all the religions I have. For reference, I just looked at my bookshelf and counted 54 books I have read on religion and spirituality. These are just the books in my living room and that I have kept. As I said this is a PASSION of mine...my relationship with God saved my life.
So, let me be clear on one thing Tim - I do not want to continue this thread debating scripture with you. That leaves a knot in my stomach and reminds me of when I went to Assembly of God church and the only viewpoint we were allowed to discuss was theirs (i.e. scripture). You don't have the luxury of my viewpoint, so you can only go to what you know and believe. I will respect that, and reiterate, it isn't what I believe.
Lastly, I will challenge you a bit in saying, I did ask you for some real life examples to ground your beliefs in. What I got was a lot of scripture and story. I've heard this my whole life from Christians and is one of the reasons I find these conversations a bit frustrating.
So, I will leave you with a quote from a favorite book of mine, "Autobiography of a Yogi", on p.231, which is when the disciple is learning from his guru, Sri Yukteswar, the importance of wisdom...
"Quotations there have been, in superabundance. But what original commentary can you supply, from the uniqueness of your particular life? What holy text have you absorbed and made your own? In what ways have these timeless truths renovated your nature? Are you content to be a hollow victrola, mechanically repeating the words of other men?" And then later, "Do not confuse understanding with a larger vocabulary. Sacred writings are beneficial in stimulating desire for inward realization, if one stanza at a time is slowly assimilated. Continual intellectual study results in vanity and the false satisfaction of an undigested knowledge."
It is an interesting conversation...I believe there has to be room for us to agree to disagree though.