Kathy Riordan

Kathy Riordan
Location
Florida, United States
Birthday
April 27
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One woman's view of life and the universe. Follow @katriord on Twitter.

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JULY 9, 2010 12:03PM

Too Many Marys

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blackpatentleather 

 

There are too many Marys in this family.

I try not to tease my husband about names in his big Chicago Irish Catholic family, since my western Mormon family has naming idiosyncracies of its own, but it can be both amusing and complicated to call for someone in the extended family at gatherings.

In the inner circle, there are two Marys, three Patricks, two Larrys and two Roberts.  One of my husband's daughters named all of her children after her siblings, so she has a Mary, a Patrick, a (Timothy) Thomas and a John (I've always wondered if a fifth would have been named after her).

Researching the family's Irish roots is no different.  Patrick and Mary left Ireland together in the first place. 

Growing up Mormon, I wasn't used to the the catholicity of naming after saints.  I didn't realize that names like 'Virginia' and 'Regina' were also names for the Virgin Mary, or how many variations of that name were possible (think 'Madonna' and 'Marie').  My Chicago sister-in-law managed to name every one of her several daughters after that most revered of all female saints, with names like 'Marion,' 'Maria' (who became 'Diz'), and 'Mary Jo.' 

All other women in this family seemed to be named after the mother or cousin of the Virgin Mary, Anne or Elizabeth, to keep it tidy.

Mormons have their own pecular eccentricities when it comes to naming children, with some families opting for historical names like Brigham, Eliza or Parley, or names plucked from Book of Mormon characters like Moroni or Lehi.  Even stranger is the curious obsession with naming children with a combination of the parents' names (a mother named Eleanor an a father named LaDell becomes 'Nordell,' for example, which my physician brother-in-law proudly wears).  Utah and Idaho are filled with names like JoDean and LaVaughn (which differ substantially from the double-barrelled hyphenated last names like Bowes-Lyon or Aston-Smythe).   Entire websites are devoted to the phenomenon of Utah baby naming.

One of my sisters initially named her children after where they were conceived, so 'Makena' came from their favorite beach in Maui where they honeymooned.  My sister's second became 'Brooklynn Madison' when she got pregnant over our wedding weekend, not because of any fun outing in the Big Apple, but because there seemed to be no glamorous names to extract from central Wisconsin  (Brook-Lynn is yes, a hyphenization), and Howard Johnsons seemed out of the question.  To her credit, my sister has given most of her daughters  more traditional first names ('Sierra' is actually 'Mary Sierra' and 'Makena' is actually 'Stephanie Makena') so they can choose later in life if they'd prefer the orthodox 'I want a name that speaks Wall Street" route.   

I came of age at the end of the Woodstock era when names like 'Rainbow,' 'Summer' and 'Sunshine' were popular antiwar summer of love monikers.  Somewhere in my teenage diary is a list of names I thought I'd gift my children which includes a smattering of those, along with my favorite, Megan Claire, which my brother substantially took out of circulation with his first daughter.  Eventually, the Rainbows, Summers and Sunshines went on to Silicon Valley and gave birth to Elijahs, Jacobs and Logans of their own.

On those rare occasions when I tease my husband about the names in his family, he is quick to point to the Nordells and Makenas in my own, and the absurd possibilities that could arise from naming children after where they were conceived (like 'Mustang' or 'Porsche'), the hyphenizations from hell (like LeBron or DaRich), or favorite place names gone wrong (LeTetons or LaSnake).   My chorus line of cousins includes a Wyoma and Cody, Raylene and Shae.  

A Mary or two might be nice.   We seem to have an oversupply.

 

 

(photo credit:  the notebook doodles) 

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I hear you about the 'Mary' syndrome! Being Catholic, I see it frequently. In my family we somehow ended up with a whole bunch of girls whose names all begin with 'M'. My daughters are Madison and Macauley. My brother's are Michaela, Meagan and Maisie. But my kids are older, so I win.
Also a Catholic background here...26 years in Catholic Education as a teacher...MaryKate, Mary Catherine, Mary Pat, Mary Jo, Mary Ann, MaryBeth...I could go on endlessly...as you know! and, yes, isn't it interesting how the "Rainbow, Sunshine, Dweezle" recipients have pendulum swung back to basic Biblical names? Such an enjoyable essay! Always great stuff here! Thanks Kathy! r
Now I know why my middle name is Kreplach.
I remember growing up with the younger child who had been named for the older one lived with the title "little" before her name all of her life.
I love that word, "catholicity." I pertains to so many things. How about George Foreman who named all five sons "George?" R-
My parents thought I was going to be a boy. I have seen the list of boys' names that they had selected. Let's just say that I was lucky to have been a girl - very, very lucky!
While I hate to endorse this book, Freakonomics has a chapter on baby names and the social ambitions reflected in the names.
Just stay away from names of erectile dysfunction drugs. I have a patient named Levitra. Seriously.
I do some pro bono work for Catholic schools, and the meetings are always packed with Mary Pats, Mary Margarets, Mary Elizabeths, etc. When you say "Excuse me--Mary?" 90% of the women in the room turn their heads and say "Yes?"
There can never be too many Marys. I attended Catholic school with mostly Irish Catholics, and I think half of my friends were named Mary.
In my Catholic family of nine, I'm proud and happy to say there's not a single Mary and only one of the four sisters middle-named Marie.
In Iceland there is a naming council, a baby name has to fit into the Icelandic alphabet, so we have our own versions of Sunshine, Rainbows etc. It's funny how some names are popular. I've never met an american Gudron or Valdis, but I hear Poppy is becoming a popular name in NY. Strange....
Dr. Seuss posited that there were "Too Many Daves."

I love that book, because it liberated me to insist on being called David, which everyone but my family abides by.

But I haven't seen my copy in a while. Some dumb Dave probably swiped it.
Very educational, thank you. Is Mitt one of the standard Mormon names?
Very interesting, this name business. I was in a department store when a shrill voice behind me started shrieking, "Serenity! Get over here right now!" Serenity was the cutest little thing I'd ever seen, but her mother obviously had some high hopes there.
It seems to be universal. We have quite a few repetitive names in our family, the most being the name "Marie" which is also my middle name. At least it isn't "Fern" which is one of my least favorite names. Kathy, it could be worse :)

r~
Irish Catholic on dad's side yielded 8 kids starting of course, with Mary and Joseph, followed by 6 lesser saints. One aunt has a Mary and Joseph as the eldest also. My mother was Protestant, so I didn't get a Catholic name :-)
My mother insisted on giving my brother and I the same initials for some bizarre reason. He got the good name. Our rules with our kids were (1) no family names (though we honored each family with one middle name); (2) something that would work in Spanish as well as English; (3) nothing weird; and (4) something that had a meaning that worked for us. Bert and Ernie sound good, don't you think?

@Dr. Steve: Could've been worse. Could've been NoTrojan.
Guilty of the Marías myself.
As a teacher I've seen quite a few strange variations and downright bizarre invented names and spellings.
I knew a family w a Candy, a Brandy, a Sandy, and a Randi. Were i not a Humanist I'd've had the parents shot. R.
I used to have four Aunt Mary's - my mother's sister (Aunt Mary Jane), my father's sister (Scottish and stern but with a lively sense of humor), and two by marriage from each parent.
Only one left - Aunt Mary who married my mother's brother Uncle Harry. Her maiden name is Thang - and she's southern - so you can imagine the jokes.
My partner's mother is Mary and he has an Aunt Mary.
So, yeah, I get it!
Ah, names. It seems that every culture has its traditions, but don't get me started on the African American side of my 'peeps.' We are the champions of made-up names. I like to call people by their names if they happen to be wearing them. So in the grocery store, I'll say "Thanks, Kathy." if that's the badge she wears. But sometimes, the names are both unrecognizable and totally unpronouncable to me. So, I just say "thanks."

Lezlie

I tried to rate, but it wouldn't take.
I learned something today. I've always noticed that the LDS folks around here choose unique names for their kids, and I had no idea about the "combo" naming (part mom and part dad) that you bring up here. Wow. I'll have to check out those websites.
Ron Howard from The Andy Griffith Show, named his daughters where they were conceived, Bryce in Dallas, twins Jocelyn and Paige at the Hotel Carlyle in New York City. Son Reed Cross was named after a London street because "Volvo isn't a very good middle name" according to Howard.
I noticed it in Spain, too . . . many, many Marias . . .
The best one I saw recently was a young boy named Steel, whose name wreaked havoc on the little league field.
My name is Mary, my Aunts name is Mary, my cousins name is Mary, my Grandmother, Great Grandmother, Great-Great-, etc.
I wanted to be called Rita - she was the Saint I picked for confirmation.
The name sounds a lot sexier than Mary.
(Brook-Lynn is yes, a hyphenization), and Howard Johnsons seemed out of the question.

*wiggle, wiggle*

I laugh because I get it--oh, to have a different first name!
When I was stationed in Zaragoza, Spain, the going name for girls among the local nationals was Maria Conchita, or Maria Pilar, because of the nearby ancient pilgrimage church, where the Virgin Mary had been seen by St. James, standing on a pillar in the old Roman marketplace of Zaragoza. This had an interesting result, as our unit local national secretary outlined to us - that of her personal circle of fifteen or sixteen high school friends, all but two of them were named Conchita, the other two being named Maria-Pilar (both nicknamed Moppy). This made for interesting group introductions; "These are my friends, Conchita-Conchita-Conchita-Conchita-Moppy-Conchita-Conchita-Conchita-Conchita-Moppy..."
Fun naming fact: At a base inbriefing, we were told that in Zaragoza, if a girl was born on October 12 (the day of the appearance of the Virgin of the Pilar) and the parents consented to christen the child Maria-Pilar, they would receive a nice little gold religious medallion, courtesy of the municipality. Don't know if anyone assigned there ever took them up on the offer, though.
Oh...what fun!

I think my Arkansan relatives have the LDS names in a dead heat...I have various aunts, uncles and cousins as follows: Laren; Anna-Lucy; Winnibel; Bessie; Ernestine; Ira; Hazel; and my own mom, Billie Mae!

On my dad's side, he was the only sibling who ended up with the saintly Spanish moniker of "Cipriano Bernabe"...among his siblings: Ronald, Rudolph; David; Rosemarie; Aaron; Jerome; Norma and Florinda...Hey....maybe the rest of them could double as Santa's reindeer...there's a "Rudolph" in there even!

What a funny subject Kathy...thanks for making me laugh!
It's also interesting how a name can date a person. In the 1950's quite a few girls were named Patricia or Debbie. In my 8th grade class there were four of us. Now, you rarely hear of a baby girl being named Patricia. I personally like Patricia, Trish or Trisha, but not Patty or especially Pat.
Very entertaining... and I learned a few things about the Nordells and LaVaughns of the world. When I lived in Southern Idaho, every teenage boy was named Shawn, Cody or Jared.
Great post. I stumbled onto the Italian naming conventions when seeking out my grandmother's step sister. I figured it wouldn't be too hard to find someone in a small town. I got there and asked for Graciella Scallara. I was sent from one house to another before finding out that the whole town was filled with them.

Italians name their kids after their parents so the first son is named after the paternal grandfather and the second son is named for the maternal grandfather. Same for the girls. That means that all the first cousins have the same names, then it gets passed on for generations. I guess that's why Italians have all those weird nicknames like Lefty and Shorty.

When I found The Graciella, I should have found out if she had a nickname.
Christine Marianna Bollerud--my mother was Catholic.
My father's family is from Bologna, Italy. There are cousins in my family tree named Primo, Secondo, and Terzo. Yes, that's right : first, second, third.

As an elementary school teacher I have seen plenty of unusual names over the decades. This one takes the cake:

Abcde---the girl's name was pronounced Ab-sa-dee.
5 Brians, 2 Trevors, 3 Toms, 3 Roberts and a couple of Harolds in our family. They are a bit hard to tell apart without last names or middle names or sizes attached. Though the size thing doesn't always work-Big Robbie is about 6 inches shorter than Little Robbie right now!
We have an over-abundance of Rays in my family: Ernest Raymond (great-grandfather), Clarence Raymond (grandfather), Raymond Ernest (uncle), and me, Rae Marie.
I agree that the naming phenomenon is interesting. It's amazing how people choose children's names. In 2 child families, both siblings names start with the same letter, like in my family (my brother is Stephen and I'm Sherri) and my husband's (his sister's name is Renee and his is Rick). Still, I wonder what it means that my brother was named after a Biblical martyr and I was named after a song. Hmm ...

Great post!
I love this post, Kathy. I worked with a woman from Columbia who called everybody so-and-so Maria. I was Patty Maria. There was Jenny Maria... and so on and so forth. Also, I think the Jewish male equivalent is Dave, thus Dr. Suess' wonderful story Too Many Daves.
:-)
I have to confess I wasn't familiar with Dr. Seuss' "Too Many Daves" prior to this. And I'm feeling mildly guilty for blogging it, because both of the immediate Marys ended up in the ER tonight, together.

I appreciate all the generous and fascinating comments on this post, and especially your name anecdotes.
Top Ten Mormon Names:

10) Olive (Osmond)
9) Orson (Pratt)
8) Heber (Kimball)
7) Ezra (Taft Benson)
6) Danny (Ainge)
5) Donny (Osmond)
4) Joseph (Smith)
3) Vai (Sikahema)
2) Brandon (Flowers)
1) Brigham (Young)
This was fun, Kathy. I am always amused by the tradition of naming kids after where they were conceived. TMI?
As in most Italian Catholic families, we have an over supply of Joseph's, Michael's and Stephen and Tom's . Female names run the gamut from Mary to Barbara. My mother and father were so inundated they named me Lee Ann to set me apart and it worked. My husband and I carried it even further in naming our children Joshua and Alexis! So now I am a grandmother to a Tom-what goes around comes around!
I grew up in Southern Utah and knew a "Twenty" I guess the first nineteen kids used up the good names.