A thought occurred to me. I didn't know what to do with it, so I'm putting it up for comment.
The essence of the debate over the so-called “public option” in health insurance seems to come down to a philosophical question of how one wants to live one's life.
The problem is that life is a complicated connective web of issues. For example, many of us believe that a lot of people want to live their early years paying less for health insurance because they haven't yet learned that later on, these things will matter. And they may not have planned well. The problem, we fear, is that they will be on our doorstep later saying, “Help me. I planned badly. But I am worthy of pity.” And there will be many of them. Too many. And it will be hard to remember or accept that they elected this.
But the desire of those of us who want universal care is not, contrary to what the others might think, to enslave an unwilling population. Our assumption is that for every person added to the pool there is a risk as well as a source of income, and that if things are priced right it really makes very little difference how many people in the pool as long as it is generally large enough to overcome certain anomalies that happen with very small pools—such as those one sees right now inside plans bought by a family or small company. Once the pool is of a large size and consistently administered over a lifetime things work fine. The problem comes if people are allowed in and out because they can dodge the expense or risk while enjoying the benefits.
And we're a society now where everything is online, and in the future access to information will be even easier. Perhaps we'll have Google and Wikipedia and other things that project an image into our sunglasses, continuously offering us information as we walk around, like how Robocop sees the world. Information could be on the web for all to see (perhaps in real time, but certainly at hospital check-in time) that this was a person deserving of no care or pity—that such would be incompatible with their elected way of living their lives.
So what would happen if instead of requiring people to opt into health insurance, we offered people the option of irrevocably choosing to live without government health insurance, including without the right to enter a hospital for emergency care, in exchange for lower taxes. So the set of people who wanted this product from society would mutually select when they came into adulthood, before they knew too much about how their life would play out, to enter a society that either did or did not have this. Everyone would be either in or out of health insurance—the cost and the benefits—no exceptions, no opportunity for subsequent change. Opportunity and responsibility in its cold, hard form. Two worlds to choose from, everyone free to take either, but a choice of lifestyle they must commit to for a lifetime. And everyone would know who was in and who was not.
![[Cheney annotated]](/files/cheney-data1259814390.jpg)
There's obviously an issue that some of us are already adults. It's a thought exercise. For simplicity here, assume we're not talking about ourselves, but rather the society we might have been born into.
Also, children can't yet choose, so could be handled in any of several ways. We could decide that children would have to live with whatever their parents had chosen. (A reduced set of benefits could be contrived for children of “mixed couples.”) Alternatively, we could decide we were going to have universal health insurance for children and only allow adults to opt out, so then even the opt out folks would be taxed enough to handle their share of everyone's children.
Not allowing people to opt out of universal health insurance for kids might not be as unfair as it might seem at first, since it helps to give everyone in our society a fair start. But also, and importantly, it seems to me that it's the Republicans who seem to want, disproportionately, to opt out and they are also the ones who seem, again disproportionately, to favor public policies that lead to out-of-control population growth. It might give them motivation to care about how many children were born.
I wonder whether, if offered in this way, it would lead to everyone being happy. I wonder how many people who started off full of bravado about doing it on their own would make it through life without regrets. I wonder whether if the others insisted on helping when there was no other option for someone who had opted out, they would be laughed at or appreciated. I wonder if we could co-exist with people under such different terms.
It's probably not doable at all. But it seemed worth pondering.
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Afterthought
On reflection after the initial posting, I came to understand why this is interesting to me: The advocates of opt-out claim that their suggestion is about individual liberty. But they want state-wide opt-out, which is just as protectionist as what they claim to oppose, affecting others, not just themselves. What distinguishes this is that it's about individuals. It's not about forcing others. For symmetry, one might call it the “The Private Option.”
I wonder if supporters of state-wide opt-out would be so quick to say to others that they should follow when those others' fates were not tied to their own, or if those others would be so quick to follow. I wonder if, when the option didn't work out so well for at least some of those followers, they would be resentful about the advice they got and who they got it from. Under state-wide opt-out errors in the advice one individual gives another can be hidden behind “the Greater Good.” Here it would be starkly visible for all to see when the advice goes wrong that it had been, in fact, just bad advice. Nowhere to hide.


Salon.com
Comments
WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU PEOPLE! Riot in the streets, dammit. March on Washington.
So the people opting out would also be the people most likely able to contribute the most based on IRS tax tables...
But, I do hear you. I hear a lot of "average Americans" who fear government control of their health etc. who want to opt out and I actually would love for them to be able to opt out and really see what this looks like for them when they loose a job or face a major health crisis in their life. Not because I wish the worse for anyone; mostly because they espouse philosophy with no real world experience to draw from.
Great piece!
Another detail of the health care debate is the assumption that it has to pay for everything. The way I think of it, we just figure out what's available and come up with some decent rules about how to divvy up that money. I don't think, in spite of the fears of some who oppose it, that it's an obvious thing that we have to declare it an infinite source of aid. My concern is not that everyone be utterly taken care of, only that they be fairly taken care of. (That doesn't mean equally even, just a standard set of rules that are generally agreed upon and consistently applied.)
Couple days ago I posted a video about a Canadian comedian, who accosts our politicians while dressed as a sort of Xena, Warrior Princess (the comedian, that is - our politicians seldom dress up like Xena, Warrior Princess). Anyway, in modified costume, and leaving behind her usual sword (probably couldn't get it over the border), she went to a Palin book-signing and asked if Palin would offer support to Canadian conservatives who want to dismantle our public health care system. Palin of course said yes - it should be turned over to for-profit insurance companies. This was played on Canadian TV to great hilarity...
While doing five seconds of research on that post, I checked the website of our currently-in-power capital-C conservative party, and they claim to do even more for the public health care (universal, government paid thru taxes, no upfront cost to the consumer) than the Liberal party...and even claim they do more than the New Democratic Party (socialists) would do if they ever got in power...
So, long answer to say I think the U.S. is criminally insane (or the government is) with respect to the health care scene. And it doesn't look like the bill that is currently being extruded by Congress will be more than a placebo...
PS - for those who don't know, we've had our system for over half a century, and we're not enslaved yet... Everyone is covered. Nobody goes bankrupt from medical bills. What you hear in the States about long waits, etc. is propaganda.
Our system doesn't pay for *everything* people can dream up, but in my experience and from everything I've heard personally it does an adequate-to-excellent job of fair distribution of resources...
A few years ago I was in a unique position to have a great deal of personal contact with a lot Canadians, Canadians who were in the well off section of the prosperity graph, folks could well afford a trip south of the border for a medical condition if need be. I asked hundreds of Canadians two simple questions, Are you happy with your health care system? and would you trade yours for ours?
Responses were pretty much unanimous: yes to the former, and no to the latter. Answers were often accompanied by laughter at the absurdity of the questions.
I don't understand why anyone would want to come and live here anymore. There are so many better places to go.
US health insurance has little risk transfer (in general), so things are both a bit more complex and a bit simpler.
However, to the larger point, I think the real stumbling block is that we have a desire for a two tier (or more) health system by some well to do Americans (including union members, ironically enough), based on the notion that they deserve an expensive option, since they have 'paid' for it in some fashion.
Others want universal access to care baed on common sense and equity.
The common thread is that both sides want to be treated equitably. They simply see their interests as divergent.
Another faction wants to rationalize and reduce the total burden of care -- to a more reasonable 10% to 15% of GDP. I would like to see rationalization and don't care that much how it is done.
Great point - I see your point. Thanks for that - I can see how it could be overcome.
I, too, agree with Myriad on everything. I have not met a Canadian who isn't pretty satisfied with their system. Any person in the US who slams it, usually finds someone who is oddly disgruntled over a single point. You can find that in any system.
I'm not sure how much we really achieve with this current bill, but we'll see what the final product is that they turn out...
Double standard?
I don't know.
I have a sincere doubt that anyone would sign up for no healthcare for lower taxes, but many there are a few insane ones still out there saying 'oh yes.'
This post makes me think Kent. I thank you for it.
By the way, I just updated the post to add an “Afterthought” section at the end, with a few additional remarks that weren't in the original post but that I didn't want to get buried in the comments.
This was actually the original idea behind HMOs. If everyone in the service area is in the risk pool, and if the HMO has to serve everyone in the service area, then you could charge a single insurance rate to everyone, and it would not be necessary to stratify rates according to age or preexisting condition. But it only works if everyone is included.
If everyone is included, then you can manage the health system as a public resource since we're all in it together, instead of our current fragmented approach with multiple health systems, multiple insurance plans, etc.
Health care is one of those interesting things in which the normal rules of economics don't apply. Competition in health care actually drives up costs, in the same way that if we had multiple water systems or multiple police departments serving the same area. This is why so many countries have health systems that are just as good as ours, or better, for a much lower cost.
Using that concept, if we treated health care in a systematic way, it would be possible simply to charge everyone in the same service area the same rate for health care. For example, if the total forecasted health care expense in a service area came out to an average of $3000 per year per person, eveyone could be insured for a $250 monthly premium. So you wouldn't have an 18 year old paying $50, a 60 year old paying $800, and a high-risk patient paying $1500. Everyone would be covered and everyone would pay the same rate. But it wouldn't work if people could opt out.
I wonder why this individual option hasn't been expressed or explored by Congress? (sarcasm) Those who want to buy from big insurance could and those that wanted to join an expanded Medicare type coverage could and get charged accordingly. That sounds workable to me and would eliminate a lot of problems. Of course, now it's so watered down as to be unrecognizable.
Rarely a week goes by that I don't read an article about small businesses getting another 15% increase in premiums. In fact our local paper wrote an editorial about their own increases that basically steal wages from their work force. Money that was meant for raises, now have to go to Big Insurance for premium increases. And yet the Republicans are still unyielding. What a crock.
So many on the right side of the argument seem to blindly follow against their own self interests and force their representatives into a corner. Or is just the campaign contributions from the insurance industry that guides the reps motives?
Speaking for a moment as someone who has been a small business owner, I must say that I don't understand the desire of ordinary business to maintain the status quo. It favors companies that do not invest in their employees over ones that do, and I would never want to be in a competitive situation where my only option was to eliminate health care if I wanted to break even! A public plan takes the issue out of the competitive realm and levels the playing field, allowing one to focus on one's business expertise as the way to remain competitive. At least, that's how I see it. I can't quite see what businessperson sees it differently. It seems like it would be a savings for businesses to get out of the game of having to provide (and administer!) health care.
The only even sort of negative I see for business is that it might enable free flow of workers between companies, where presently some workers won't leave a job they don't like because they're locked into health care. But I can't really believe that's what is driving most businesses that are retiscent.
I can't think of a single reason for small business to be against reform, either. If everyone has to participate, it would remove the unfair advantage that companies that don't offer coverage enjoy and level the playing field.
What a mess this whole thing has become. Time will tell, but time is getting short. It seems this debate has gone on forever with all of the stall tactics. The clock is ticking. They can't spend forever on this thing. There is so many other issues that need to be addressed. Between Republican stalling and the need for a 60 vote super majority to pass a bill, the Senate has ground down to a near stop. Something has to change about that. I like the 55 vote majority that was introduced by Alan Grayson. That makes so much more sense to me.
As for your musing about a permanent opt-out, the very notion of refusing care to someone so foolish flies in the face of everything we claim to be as a nation -- tho it must be said, that claim doesn't hold up in practice.
there's a fundamental philosophical difference in these two camps, and I think that difference is that some of us recognize that we live in overlapping communities of various size and scope, and that we all draw strength from each other, while others persist in the idea that each individual stands alone
I think the radical individualists ignore the reality that very few would last a week if they really had to rely only on their own resources, and they ignore the basic truth that humans are social creatures
I think at heart they're sad and lonely, as well as fearful, and their worldview is a pathology
My point is that those "rugged individualists" who want to drop out of a system of socialized medicine (and it all is in one way or another) would be the first to come running to the emergency room if they had a serious medical problem. And the "bleeding-hearts" they so denigrate and despise would willingly treat them in spite of their unkindness.
In the end, this opt-out would simply be another folly like "free-market capitalism" or communism -- belief systems that sound good in theory, but just doesn't work out in practice.
This reminds me of a photo I saw once of a KKK member in the ER. He had obviously been shot or otherwise injured at a rally or something because he was bleeding heavily from the torso and ruining his fancy white robe. There were about six doctors and nurses working feverishly to save his life. Everyone on the ER staff was black.
And young adults have no idea what health care costs. They don't know how much it costs to be pregnant. Absolutely no idea how much a few days' stay in the NICU might cost them if the baby is premature, have no idea that you can rupture your appendix at any time.
And then what? Do we let them die because they don't have insurance? Or do they go into bankruptcy and become everyone's responsibility because they will need public assistance? I guess that's my question.
It's akin to people who don't want to have their kids vaccinated. The only reason they can get away with it is because the vast majority of us have had our kids vaccinated, so most of those diseases are not rampant. But stop vaccinating, and watch those diseases come back, and watch the graveyards fill up with the young again.
Allow enough people to opt out of a healthcare system they don't think they need, and my premiums go up, and then I'm still stuck with the bill when they get sick because they lacked forethought.
They impinge on my personal liberty. If they're too poor to get their TB treated, and they cough on me on the bus, whose liberties are impinged now?
Interesting thought experiment, but from a purely selfish point of view (mine), I ain't buying it.
Michael, good piece of imagery. Thanks for your thoughts.
The concept of providing medical care for every citizen is so basic, so fundamental, so elemental to a decent culture, that the fact that this debate is so heated, so divisive, indicates the depth of the illness from which America suffers and for which there is no realistic remedy.
The lack of thought, the illogic, the callousness, and lack of patriotism of those who oppose healthcare for all reveals their hypocrisy to such an extent that it leaves any thinking, caring, decent human being speechless, dumbfounded, unable to even comprehend the motivation behind the vehement opposition.
You write, “The problem is that life is a complicated connective web of issues.” You lost most of them right there, as soon as you wrote that concept down. It is too complicated for them.
Tom pointed it out in his comment; it’s all “socialized” in one way or another and there are basically two kinds of people involved in this debate: people of kindness, and people of “unkindness”.
mishima points out that HMOs supposedly incorporated the “single-payer” concept. The problem with HMOs was …? INSURANCE CORPORATIONS AND PROFIT MOTIVE, which turn people’s health into a commodity to be dealt with solely for profit instead of as a “public resource”, as mishima states it.
There is no reasoned argument to support the opposition while there is overwhelming proof that a public single-payer system would be a vast improvement, so we are left with useless “rants” like this comment of mine and this “thought experiment in absurdity” (not meant as an insult to the author, but as an indicator of what this post points out so clearly).
So, as observations:
-The opt-in public plan would have to truly be funded only by the people who opt-in. No broad based taxes on opt-outers.
-Private markets for insurance and medical services should be deregulated so that opt-outers get to live in a free-wheeling pay for what you want marketplace. Basically, the government offers a more standardized universal option and if you don't like it, you can choose to live in the free private market where lack of payment means no service.
-It would likely be necessary that doctors and hospitals be allowed to choose to service only opt-in plans, opt-out private plans, or both. Again, this is about choice.
-I think it would be logical to eliminate the tax deduction for private health insurance since people are not paying the tax associated with government healthcare. No need for a deduction. Everyone just pays things straight-up.
Potential outcomes:
-The private insurance market would likely free itself from be tied to the employer. People would start buying individual health insurance much as they do homeowners, life, and car insurance. I think this would be good and would immediately eliminate the problem of people losing insurance when they change jobs.
-Private insurance would likely become more creative in designing options that seek to maintain a life long relationship with customers. An example would be insurers offering riders where a person pays a higher average premium to be able to waive premiums for periods of unemployment; or, agrees to pay higher average premiums while young in return for relatively premiums when they are older and use more service.
Give some of my observations, I would opt out. I think 80% of the people with an above average income would opt out. I think the opt-in pool would still be pretty balanced in terms of accident/illness rates so risk would be adequately spread. The main thing would be whether the premiums would be cheaper than equivalent for-profit plans. My guess is that the government would keep the premiums down by lowering quality and rationing since their pool of people have limits on how much they can/will pay in taxes. The private market will do what private markets do: charge more for faster/higher quality service... charge less for less. Opt-outers would choose whatever balance of the two makes them comfortable.
As a close Kent, you may or may not realize it but you're opt-out idea is very much an American free market oriented idea. Everybody only gets services they pay for and they have to live with the consequences of their choices.
By the way, random question: Supposing family/inherited wealth were not part of the picture—do you still think people would opt out? That is, do you think the opt-out would be based primarily on the sheer metric of “I can afford not to care about others” or do you think any of that set would be motivated, notwithstanding their wealth, merely because they cared about others and thought being part of the public plan was just and right?
-One view is that it is selfish to seek to take care of yourself on your own as much as possible and resist others who want to help. Basically, asking to be left alone is selfish.
- Another view is that it is selfish to always be trying to help people with the implicit assumption that one person knows what is right for another.
I think this is another hurdle in the healthcare debate. I do not believe it is selfish to wish to take care of oneself and family as much as possible and accept the fact that others may not do as well. For those who believe that all Americans should have healthcare even if others have to pay for it, I often wonder why they do not see that as another form of taking care of one's own and not focusing much on others. The reality is that many third world countries do not have even basic healthcare or good food. So, wouldn't it be more unselfish to help the poorest overseas first before we expend tens of thousands on expensive treatments for well-off Americans?
Whenever I have argued this here at OS, I often get responses where people are infuriated that I should bring non-Americans into the debate. The dissonance is lost on them.
As a note, yours and Roy's comments about individualism is an exaggeration of what free market libertarians believe. You're right that no one believes that an individual can make all there own things with no help from others. What libertarians believe is that voluntary exchange in free markets is the best way to create this cooperation so that people can have all sorts of things that they could never invent on their own. Central planning by governments is almost always less efficient and usually results in either soft or hard coercion. I know you recognize this since the premise of your post was the idea that maybe not everyone should be forced into a government healthcare system.
As a note, the likely way 18 years olds would get a sense of what choice they should make is that they would get advice from older family members and friends plus the private medical industry would design products to attract them and advertise. I am confident they would be awash in information that would allow those who feel optimistic about themselves to opt out.
But, no way to prove it since this is just a thought experiment.
But not to let you off the hook too easily, I still that you're not confronting straight on the questions of desperation, charity, and regret. I think a lot of people want to live in a world that does not account precisely for the cost of making sure people are well, where they stretch a bit to accommodate. In a private health care situation, if there isn't enough money, that's pretty much the end of the story. In government, there is some opportunity to stretch. The conservatives are quick topoint out that such opportunities should not be infinite, but there is presumably at least some middle ground. And so the difficulty comes if you have a public facility that doesn't check its checkbook before deciding whether to offer care—do you in fact intend that it should turn you away? And is it implicit in your support of at least this thought experiment that the only situation you accept in the way of a public system is one in which there is a precise budget and if there is an overrun, there should be no stretch?
But, to answer your question, I actually am willing to compromise more than you may believe. I have a done a few posts outlining some ideas that I believe balance free market solutions with a general public desire to provide a minimum healthcare safety net.
You might want to read this:
Healthcare Debate: Is Comprimise Possible?
Since this time, I have identified some major potential big flaws in this approach, but I think it shows an attempt to achieve the caring for fellow citizen that you are seeking.
As to your second question about what is room for stretch over a budget, I believe these decisions are best made by individuals relative to their own budget. I actually believe that if people were more involved as consumers, even at end of life, they would seek the best value for the cost. So, many old/ill people would choose voluntarily to not seek certain treatments to reduce their own pain and preserve assets for their families. Just like parents are often willing to sacrifice their own lives for their kids. It is an honorable act.