Kent Pitman

Kent Pitman
Location
New England, USA
Title
Philosopher, Technologist, Writer
Bio
I've been using the net in various roles—technical, social, and political—for the last 30 years. I'm disappointed that most forums don't pay for good writing and I'm ever in search of forums that do. (I've not seen any Tippem money, that's for sure.) And I worry some that our posting here for free could one day put paid writers in Closed Salon out of work. See my personal home page for more about me.

MY RECENT POSTS

AUGUST 16, 2010 8:47AM

Five Dollars to Cash a Check?

Rate: 17 Flag

The banking system is broken. You knew that. Banks even know it. That's why they want to get out of the business of having regular people even use them. We don't have enough money to interest them. It's like they see us as mosquitos, nipping away at them, and they want to make our actions, our business with them, as painful as possible so we'll go away.

Full financial reform cannot come soon enough.

But for now, fees are the order of the day. It's not just overdraft fees, but all kinds of fees. Fees are just how banks make money these days. And so in some way it hardly seems commentworthy to remark on yet another fee, but this one seems different than the others and I wanted to take time out to remark on it.

I've been dealing with Citizens Bank for several years. I used to like and recommend them. I no longer do. Several recent policies and interactions have led me to realize that they are rushing headlong toward being the kind of bank I want nothing to do with and that I recommend you avoid as well.

I owed some money to someone and wrote a check to pay it. The payee took it to Citizens Bank, my bank, the bank I wrote the check on. They wanted immediate cash, not to wait a few days. They didn't have an account at Citizens Bank, but walked my check to the teller. Citizens Bank wanted to charge them a fee. Five dollars. A five dollar fee to allow someone standing in my bank holding a check written on that bank by me to allow them to have the money backing up the check I had written to square my debt.

Oh, sure, if they opened an account at Citizens they would get the check cashed for free. But the point of me writing checks is not to promote everyone going to that bank. In fact, there is no way would I voluntarily promote anyone going to that bank now.

What is a check if not the ability to demand payment for the amount on its face? Why stop at five? Why not fifty or a hundred? In what sense have I written a check if the person cashing it can't get the money it mentions?

I understand another bank charging to transport money. I don't like it, but I understand it. I understand my bank charging me a fee for writing a check. I don't like it, but I understand it. But in charging someone I'm trying to pay for the privilege of merely receiving the money I tried to pay them, I think they're beyond the pale.

Lost in all of this issue of fees is the loss of my own good name if I write a check to someone and it costs them money to receive it.  It's like I haven't paid them. What kind of service is that for a bank to provide?

My banker claims that this is standard practice and I'll probably not find another bank that doesn't do it. I didn't have trouble finding that another bank.  But I wondered if others really have had this problem.


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Why do you think they make all this profit?
It's the Robin Hood theory
Rated with hugs
Yup. It's why I bank locally. I get paid by UMASS at times as a sub-contracter. It's complicated - at times, working for the rape/crisis organization which is hosted by UMASS but is not really part of UMASS, but sort of is, I do contract work.
UMASS - one of the largest employers in this region - banks with Bank of America. Strange, since there is also a UMASS/Five College credit union.
I wanted to cash one of those checks a few months ago - cash in hand - and not only did they charge a fee - I had to give them a thumbprint!
I got fingerprinted for cashing a check drawn on an account that is, clearly, good for the money! I complained, loudly, and have never set foot in that bank again.
It still makes me seethe just thinking about it.
When this first happened to me at Chase, it was six dollars, I almost got kicked out of the bank. I voiced my opinion on what a rip-off it was to charge me for a 'service' which took seconds. I was also told that the fee would be waived if the owner of the account paid a yearly fee to have their checks cashed. This is the ultimate in stealing in my opinion. The money was in the account, I held a valid check drawn on the account and yet they charged me six bucks for what? Nothing. I hate banks and do not have an account. I have dropped out of the entire system. This big banks need to be dissolved. Crooks, common crooks that do things that would embarrass the Mafia.
It seems to be comon practice these days Kent. While I was working for the cleaning service, I often got paid by personal check. I got charged for cashing a check drawn on my bosses account to me. The fee was $6.00.
I do not use a bank for any reason if I can get by without it. I use cold hard cash for any and everything. I would not recommend any of them.
You're so right!! I've despised banks as evil institutions since my college days! And fees are the main way they make their money, just as did the mortgage pillagers and rapists of recent fame, as do banks issuing credit cards....I say to all, "Just say NO to the evil rich who control the rest of us!!
This is not something I've experienced, but it doesn't surprise me. I think you have identified the twin motivations: fee-derived profits for the banks and waning interest in actually providing banking services to ordinary (i.e., non-wealthy) people.

The consumer protections that were enacted in the middle of the 20th Century have been gradually dismantled by politicians bought and paid for by corporations and the wealthy. The media arm of this unholy cabal (not just Fox news, mind you) has aided by convincing people who would benefit the most from those protections that they are all part of the nasty "librul" agenda.

I just wish I knew how to gain back what we've lost and begin again to build a nation that ordinary people can thrive in.
I encountered this indignity when I went into a Citizen's Bank to cash a check my husband had written to me. Imagine my disbelief when the teller asked for $5 to get the money. Especially since about a month earlier I had cashed a check written on the same account for a greater amount without being asked to pay a premium for this mundane service. I protested to the bank manager and got him to waive the fee "just this once." Charging a customer for the privilege of assigning his money to someone through the longstanding practice of writing a check is, indeed, beyond the pale.
Join a credit union Kent. Keep your money local and have some say.
I've heard of this from friends. I assume my bank does it too.

It's greed on a stick, but consider the source.
Linda, I have no doubt about their desire to make a profit on various things, but it's a bit like a restaurant charging you a fee for receiving the food you ordered. There are things to charge for and things not to charge for.

Aim, a thumbprint is also ridiculous. I've known others who have suffered that and I think that's just as unreasonable.

Spudman, your reference to theft is spot on. Note the keyword “because they can” on this post.

Bonnie, thanks for the datapoint. (Where did you call and what did you find out?)

Mission, did it happen at the bank the check was drawn on? I'm sorry to hear that happened to you. It's not like I don't have the five dollars, but there's a principle here. I write a lot of these things because I know there are often people who can't spare that.
Amy, I wish it were so easy as just say no. While I did find a bank that doesn't do that thing and am in the process of switching my accounts, it is often not convenient to move all of one's life just because of an indignity like this, and many times one is just trading one indignity for another. I'm so looking forward to there being a Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection because I'm gonna have a lot of letters to write them.
Karin, you're right about how they all rush to use each others' ideas about how to gouge. It doesn't work like a proper free market that has an interest in providing the best possible product.

Susan, I think the key is overcoming the rhetoric of the Right. I think a few people on the Right are just affluent and like it as it is, but a lot of them I think have just been talked into thinking the Left wants to offer them something worse, so they cling dearly to existing systems falsely thinking it's in their best interest. The real winners in this financial arena are about 1-2% of the population. The other 98-99% should be able to outvote them on issues that matter to ordinary people, but somehow many are talked into thinking it doesn't matter.

Coyote, that “just this once” thing is especially aggravating. It's like they're saying “I'm going to not really solve your problem but am going to disarm your ability to whine today, so you'll have to solve your problem another day.” Often I refuse such “discounts” and tell them that for $5 I'd rather they go home thinking “I was unable to satisfy a customer today.” It's like getting a free appetizer at a restaurant when the service is lousy. Some restaurants budget for people complaining, and they buy you off rather than fixing their service. All in all, I'd rather the fixed service and I especially do not want to have them saying “oh, here comes that guy looking for a freebie.”

Tim, as noted in my last paragraph, the issue is not finding another bank. There are such banks, even if the banker didn't want to believe that. Maybe he was hoping I wouldn't look. But partly I wanted to create a forum for others to tell stories of similar kind, and partly I wanted to just make a record of my outrage. There's a deep principle of society being violated here. And to some extent it's like the meta-paradigm I alluded to in my article Recycling Theater where I suggested it would be better to make recycling illegal so that the people who had the energy to do something didn't have that energy frittered away uselessly. People who have the energy to change banks should be told they can't so they'll spend their energy getting the problem fixed for everyone.
one more reason to let your senators and president know that you want Elizabeth Warren given charge of the Consumer Financial Services oversight commission
Vonnia, it is “greed on a stick” as you say.

Roy, yes, I do hope they choose Elizabeth Warren. I wrote the whitehouse directly and also signed the petition at boldprogressives.org.
People wonder why I hate conservatives! It's because of them, and their damned, "small government" ideas that your bank can charge five dollars to cash a check.
Every time I listen to the ads on tv, saying "I will fight Obama". I get so damned mad. I haven't been able to post, I am so consumed with hate lately. Don't they understand what they are doing? Lets deregulate yet another industry, so they can stick it to the people! Lets give tax breaks to the richest, so they can screw the little guy. Like I said, I can't even make a comment without blowing my stack!
Rated for telling it like it is!
I see your point Kent, but as a credit union member for the last 20 years Ive never been faced with fees like this. Ive had an easy time getting loans and the rates have always been competitive. While what you describe is akin to robbery, and in truth many dont have a lot of choice in things like banking or foodstores or schools, when you do have a choice its better to make the move than endure the pain.
Kenny, I agree it's ridiculous to think the opposition is offering better. Thanks for visiting.

Tim, I don't really object to noting places people can go. I guess my point is that banking is complicated enough that sometimes one can't switch as easily as it might seem. (Maybe I'll post another time on what I mean about that, but I won't explain here.) I'd rather see these things fixed when they're doing things that should be outright illegal and then let them compete on what remains.
you have just now noticed how capitalism works? how sweet!

your momma should have told you, "they offer a service or good at a price, you bargain, then agree or take your business elsewhere." that's how it's done in the usa, best country in the world.

getting excited or angry means you think socialism is a good thing, probably.
Banks have been going way out of their way to distance themselves from customers. In the end, they will lose, but they don't see that because they're looking for the bottom dollar profit margin and don't understand that those customers are the ones who inhabit all of these companies that they want to do business with. The more distance you put between yourself and customers is the more ground you will have to regain when it comes to the backlash you will receive. They never see this, but that's what happens. Oh, they'll profit right this moment, but years from now they'll go straight down the toilet and never understand why it happened because they lost touch with what they were doing a long time ago.
al, it's not so binary as capitalism vs socialism. capitalism can only work when properly regulated. there are not appropriate regulations in place right now for there to be a viable free market.

duane, the distance you mention will backfire in other ways, too, I think. Right now, banks rely heavily on the goodwill of the public. People think of a bank not as a “business” but as a “public trust,” a safe and neutral institution where they can safely park their money. The more that banks are parasites, the more people will wish nothing to do with them. When that happens, the public will feel a lot less bad about regulating banks harshly because they won't have a “personal friend” that is a bank as perhaps they once did.
Kent, nothing surprises me about banks any more. As you point out, it's gone beyond nickel and diming you by a factor of fifty. How long before they set an admission fee to enter their premises?
Abrawang, I've actually been surprised that no banks have a special tier of service for people who need counter service. There are banks like E*Trade bank that have no physical locations, but the intermediate of just having a physical bank that only certain people can use seems feasible. I suspect the real reason it's not done is that banks would be smaller and it would make bankers feel less important—they couldn't justify having multiple tellers and it would look very hole-in-the-wall. It's probably an irrational concern. Some banks do have a special line for certain tiers of service, though, so it's almost that.
It seems the multinationals have discovered pay as you go. Airlines, banks --- what's next?