Thanks for the update, Kerry. I think a lot of us are looking forward to having better tools to keep track of the writing of our favorites! I'm loving it here!

Just when I was really trying to control my time spent here!!!! LOL You guys rock!!!!

I must not be spending enough time on OS; I completely missed wow1018.

Forgive me, Kerry, I'll try to be more diligent.

Lonnie: Someone flagged wow1018. But be patient, I'm sure 1019, 1020, etc. are just waiting to jump aboard.

Thanks cartouche and screamin!

I'm heading to the gym, because if I do not, I'll be spending my holidays buying bigger pants at all the fire sales. Back online in a bit to check this thread and answer any questions.

I appreciate the info. Happy exercising and holidays too.

Kerry,

Your post reminds me of a great old political joke from the old country.

Politician to crowd:
I will give you bridges.
Crowd:
We have no rivers.
Politician:
I will give you rivers.
Politician:
I will give you schools
Crowd:
We have no children.
Politician:
I will give you children.
(joke may not be funny in English, but I love to hear the dud of translated humor)

You are giving us way more than we deserve. We are grateful. Thanks.

Thanks, Kerry. I'm glad you're paying attention to spammers, even if we disagree on what counts as spam or not. I'm going to keep trying to persuade you, in some cases...

But another thing comes to mind: Are killfiles on the horizon? (For the less computer-savvy, a killfile allows someone not to have to see specific posts, based on properties such as who wrote them, keywords or text they contain, and so forth.)

Thanks for keeping us abreast of all that's going on.

Happy Christmas, Kerry

Of course I appreciate the efforts of OS staff to delete spam posts and spam accounts. But in my experience some of these accounts exist for months in spite of repeated flagging. When that happens flagging seems like a waste of time, and it is unclear what the OS policy about spam actually is.

Example: injuryhelper.com Any idiot can see that it's primarily about advertising. But posts get flagged and nothing happens.

Thanks for the information. Is Royal PalmVacations spam? Those posts often contain basic grammatical errors. And way to go on the gym thing!

Thanks for your diligent efforts. I haven't seen any of this stuff yet but will keep an eye or two open.

Thanks, Kerry for all you and the others in admin do. It is appreciated although we may not always say so.

After this new overhaul after the first of the year, I'd like to raise an unrelated thing for consideration:

OS is so big now that it is impossible to keep up with the feed, even on friends posts. Would it be possible to have not only a cover but multiple topic covers like is done on Salon and Huffington?

A lot of folks like to concentrate in certain areas which would help them find related materials. Plus it might mean that some very good posters who never make the cover and may have never had an editor's pic might have a chance getting recognition on a topic cover.

That sounds like a lot of work for you guys, but it would be cool if something like that were possible.

Hey, Its Christmas coming up and that is my entire list for OS Santa.

Thanks again,

Monte

You all do a great job. Thanks

Thanks for the update, Kerry - you've made my day. My three wishes for OS are right in your third paragraph. Yippee! Thanks for all that you do. OS is a one-in-a-million place.

Hi Kerry! Just stopping by to say thanks!

When that happens flagging seems like a waste of time, and it is unclear what the OS policy about spam actually is.

Yeah, this kind of bugs me, too. There are posts (I'm thinking of the same ambulance chaser mishima mentions) that have no other purpose than to be commercial solicitations and thus violate the terms of service, and yet they remain on OS, despite having been flagged. Why should I bother, then?

I was a little freaked out my first week when I received this private email:
Hello Dear
linda is my name i see you online at this site (open.salon.com) and i be come intrreste in your lovely profile ,i think we can know each other together,and build a relationship therefore i would like you to contact me back throug my email address . i will tell you more about myself and i will also send you my photo as will. please remember that Love is the most important in life. so please contact me back. throug my email thank and god bless you, Hopping to hear from you soonest,
yours lovely

I knew the squirrel wrote like this, but didn't think I had caught his attention yet. I forwarded this and another to you, and you were very expedient in removing the offending spammers.
Thanks!

Thanks Kerry.

And, I'd like to send a special thanks to James Ruga and Rachel Hagen on the OS tech crew. Every single time I have contacted them regarding bugs, error messages or other issues, they have been on top of the problem in a flash.

I can't wait to see the new features in '09.

Stellaaa: All I know is that it's funny in translation!

Rob/Mishima: Without going into to detail about specific members, all I'll say is that our first concern is spam we think is harmful -- either in clogging our messaging or feeds, and not someone who might be annoying.

Rob: On killfiles: No immediate plans. It's not to say we won't, but first up are tools that let people find content they really want to see.

Redstocking: I agree with you -- and it's why we gave you the keys to your own comments. Delete away, I say! And if someone wants to argue with you, they can blog it -- on his/her own blog.

Monte: We have something like that in the works -- but not in the short term. I would suggest, however, searching by using obvious tags (Politics, Obama, Food, Television) to find recent content in your choice topic areas. We'll make it easier in the future, but for now, that might be a decent stopgap.

M B: Awww, the Squirrel may not capitalize, but he's got pretty good grammar.

Artsfish: Rachel and Jim are champs -- as is the quieter but no less dogged Jerry Palmisano. Thomas, Joan and I get to socialize and fart around on Open, but those three are the ones who really keep the train on its tracks -- an increasingly big job for three people (who have Salon work to do, too!).

Thanks, Kerry. I appreciate your openness and patience.

appreciate the update...

Kerry,
I'm Donna A, a newer Saloner. Thanks for the update and the vigilance. I am so in love with this entire "operation" that includes all the Salon features, a couple I am still trying to get time to fully delve into. Oh, yes, it's also nice to see a familiar face, so to speak as I cruise around. Still having trouble getting into Table Talk? I'll figure it out, given the time.
Have a Wonderful Holiday!!!

Kerry,

Thank you for the update
Happy Holidays to you and yours and thank you so much for this gift you provide to all of us 24/7 365 days a year.

Kerry, thanks for the update and the hard work from all.

But when will you be installing an extra brain in my head so I can absorb all the content that's posted here?

Thanks for the update. The ambulance chaser was starting to make me want to run in front of cars.
You work hard for all of us. Thank you.
Snap

Kerry , thanks for letting me know about Jerry.. I have not exchanged emails with anyone other than James and Rachel, but I was wondering who else might be behind the scenes - so I send a fond "thanks" to Jerry Palmisano as well. Now I am even more impressed. that is a small team for such a large undertaking.

Thanks for the update. Open Salon already works pretty well- the updates should make it even easier to use. I keep trying to cut back on my OS time, and you keep pulling me back in!

Hi. I'm new here and I have a request. My request may already be a function of OS - if so, hopefully someone will tell me what I'm missing.

I go to the "topics" section to look for posts. I see a list down the page for open call and then a small list of links in the right hand corner related to tags - but only those that are most popular, not those that are of interest by a subject area or something like that.

I would really like a feature that would provide "subject headers" for posts - and for entire blogs. Obviously people write about a variety of subjects, but if someone often blogs about parenting, for instance, that person could have "parenting" as a subject header for his/her blog. One blog could have several subject headers, and most would, I would imagine. Maybe Salon could provide a drop-down with categories you supply, along with an "other" option for a blogger to create a subject area - which would then be "other - their label."

I would love this feature, and think it would be especially useful for people who are new to OS and for those who cannot/will not be here for days at a time.

Most online environments have a group of people who are stalwarts - they have an encyclopedic knowledge of users and subjects - but most people either cannot or do not spend enough time on a site to be able to easily find subjects of interest unless the site gives users the capacity to cluster information, it seems to me.

I will be really embarrassed if the next comment on this thread explains to me that this is already a function on this site...

but I'll be happy to know it exists.

oh, since I've already said something, this post addresses another "wish" that I think would enhance OS - and that is, basically, changing the nomenclature of the "friends" function.

I've used the friends function to be able to keep track of people who've posted about various subjects of interest to me. But it's weird, to me, to call them my friends and then note that I've never met them.

FaceBook and MySpace were started for students, iirc. Salon's "brand," at least to me, has always been something more sophisticated than high school or college.

Okay, I'll stop now. But I was glad to see, from the post in the link, above, that I'm not the only one who hesitated about using the "friend" list.

I've been here just over a day and am still figuring out all the bells and whistles. I'm not very web savvy so it takes me longer than most. I've already had two "invitations" from various gentleman to be my friend, which I declined. I've also seen a couple of trolls, but I've learned the hard way to not get involved.

I'm looking forward to getting to know OS and some of the posters here. I've had a warm welcome, and I appreciate it greatly.

OS needs to disallow handles entirely. And obviously-fake profile photos. Most of us would like to believe that we're interacting with real people. If a new member uploads a photo of his/her dog (for example), and can't be bothered to make the effort to invent a real-sounding name, why should s/he be allowed to interact with the rest of us? Handles and cartoons encourage idiots to post dreck, while hiding behind an obvious shield of anonymity.

Yeah, those of us with "handles" and not real pictures are online versions of anarchists, hell-bent on destroying the social order of Open Salon.

Stellaa, the joke reminds me of this old clip from The Simpsons:

Matlock Expressway

Paris: It's a very good question. That Topics directory is sorely limited. We've got a new version in development -- it's not in our next round of navigation, but hopefully shortly thereafter. We plan on emphasizing the "supertag" topics list you can choose from when you create a post.

On Friends: We agree, it needs to be re-thunk a bit. Regardless of the term's provenance, Friend has become pretty industry standard. But we do want to make it easier for you to use that feature to find the people you want to read -- not necessarily just be friends with.

Alan: I prefer full names, too, and the registration is set up to encourage people to use full names. We also, candidly, are probably biased toward full names when we're choosing posts for positions either on the Open cover or Salon -- we want others to take your work seriously, and that's sometimes made difficult with initials or whimsical handles. But I'd never want to make it a rule. First off, I have no idea how we would enforce it, without creating a level of bureaucracy I don't think any of us want. And some people have perfectly sound reasons for maintaining a scrim of privacy. There's the aforementioned Squirrel, Shelle Stormoe (formerly Hillbilly Aunt), and others who write sharply and candidly about their work, while others write about subjects (sex, politics, cats) that they may feel would endanger their standing in their workplace. Others just don't want us to know everything about them -- and I respect that, too.

Yeah, those of us with "handles" and not real pictures are online versions of anarchists, hell-bent on destroying the social order of Open Salon.

So what exactly have you done for us lately, Skeptic Turtle--if that really is your name? I'll bet you're not even an amphibian. Name just one thing you've done... :-)

You can have my whimsical handle when you pry it from my cold, dead keyboard.

(But seriously, I feel more comfortable writing about some frankly unpleasant things in life behind the [faux?] cover of a pseud. It's not that I'm ashamed of them, or I wouldn't write about them; however, I do have friends and family to consider, and when I write about them, I'm much more comfortable with that extra layer of anonymity. Sure, people who know my face IRL will be able to figure out who I'm talking about should they stumble into OS on a whim, but that's maybe 500 people in the world, and I see no real purpose in going farther than that.)

sounds good. the stuff about tracking our own comments is great -- it's from the comments (my own and others) that i'm finding my way to content i like, but not being able to keep track of my own comments leaves me hanging sometimes.

and while we're at it -- i've had trouble posting and editing photos -- maybe a few more controls over size would be helpful.

thanks for the support and improvements.

paula

Kerry, I'm not advocating that anyone give up his/her privacy. Pseudonyms are fine with me. Pictures of long-dead strangers are fine, too. But being associated with a media organization that tolerates wacky handles and crude turtle drawings makes us all look like silly teenagers.

Kerry writes: "Without going into to detail about specific members, all I'll say is that our first concern is spam we think is harmful -- either in clogging our messaging or feeds, and not someone who might be annoying."

If you don't want to delete all the spam accounts that's fine, but perhaps we can at least get back the "thumbs down" feature so that those of us who don't want to see any spam can at least express public disapproval.

The argument about pseudonyms vs. real names is as old as online communities. The thing that you find out if you participate in an online community over time is that many of the people who are using "real-sounding" names are actually using pseudonyms as well - it's just that they chose something that sounds like a real name (e.g. Jane Smith) vs. an obvious pseudonym (like mine). I found this out from having a number of people in a community I've participated in for over a decade email me and say, "Oh by the way, I'm not really Jane Smith - I'm Barbara Granger." But...they never disclose this openly on the site. If they hadn't emailed and told me, I'd have thought they were using their real name.

You could argue that people with obvious pseudonyms are being more "honest" about hiding their real identity rather than trying to make it appear as if something is their real name.

One person's "wacky" in another's clever. Vive le difference!

phSFca: Once you upload the photo, you should be able to make it as big or small as you'd like, but clicking on the image, and then pulling on the cursors. Give it a try and let me know how it goes.

You mean people are asking you to delete content that offends them? Not here, surely ;)
Thank you very much for the update on the spam and the whiners. ;)

Kerry, I recently left an online community (Francis Ford Coppola's Zoetrope.com) due to pseudonym/troll/censorship issues, so I guess I'm still a little shell-shocked. In a way, I'm relieved that OS is more relaxed about some of this stuff, while remaining vigilant about the rest. I think this community has a better system in place to encourage the creation of quality material (even if it might be controversial) and to ignore crap.

So thanks:
(1) for letting me beat up on you a bit... but mostly
(2) for not deleting my criticisms.

Kerry, you and I may disagree on many things but I think we both concur that OS is proving to be a remarkable experiment. It is possible, I'm sure to find the same approximate level of discourse on other sites such as BlogSpot and WordPress but nowhere other than here can one find such substantial postings and comments so densely packed. New users may certainly feel daunted upon discovering how quickly posts disappear down the OS Black Hole but the fact remains that with a bit of persistence everyone eventually gets read.

Where OS fails badly is in the area of transparency. Our user base abounds with pages of fabulous and/or half-baked ideas. We joke about how OS-meta posts are sure to reach the cover's Most Read sidebars. But is this for any other reason other than that the good folks here are really involved with the site, are attentive to it's workings and are responsive to any attempts to make things better? Yet most of the time the best we can hope for in response is that we all are being listened to. I always thought Santa was listening to me too but I never got a pony.

Your criteria for doing anything is occult. By what yardstick do you measure EPs, the cover or sidebar contents? How's Tippem working out? How is it that you can know who is reading what and in what numbers, but we can't? We users remain in the dark even though these questions have been brought up repeatedly since May. That is not listening. You mention above that there are about a half-dozen part-time people working on the administration side. Yet, if C3's analysis is to be believed there are nearly 2000 active, involved users. Where are they in all of these decisions? The users of OS are an under appreciated resource and, lest we forget, we're working for nothing.

I don't want presents. If my outrage-bone weren't so worn out I'd likely take offense. What we need is an alliance between those who own the servers and those who provide content. Take this post as an example. Go back and count the number of comments that offer suggestions to improve OS. What do you say to them aside from "we hear you"? Will they be offered an opportunity to pre-test some new feature before it is released to the site? Will their suggestions be posted someplace permanent where other users can comment and improve upon them? Or will this post sink, within a week, into the OS abyss with all the others? We know the answer, don't we? Changes here are done by fiat, code improvements are tested by six part-timers and the users simply have to learn to adapt.

wow1018 is insignificant. The problem with spammers is that though he/she/it/and others do get flagged by attentive users, the flagging is seemingly ignored. I understand why it happens - you guys are swamped. But if wow1018 were hawking child porn instead of wowbux, albeit in a very obtuse way, what kind of jackpot would you and the rest of Salon Communications be facing now?

Please understand I may be critical of what you are doing here but I'm not antagonistic. For whatever reasons, within and outside of your control, you've painted yourself into this corner. Finding a way out will be difficult. Yet ask anyone here if doing such would be a good idea and you will hear a resounding yes.

One final question. My brown M&Ms if you will. I've heard that OS advertised on the Sundance Channel last week. Is that true and if yes why is it we have not seen it?

I remain, merely one of thousands and a very bad kitty,
C_W

Hey Kerry! i don't care about the spammers, when do I get on the front page! I kid, of course. Merry Holidays.

Kerry,

Thank you for all that you do! Actually, I have already found it easy as pie to get to my own stuff...and I may be a bit naive about the spammers, as I'm not sure which are and which aren't--although I may understand what you are saying better after reading a post...so thank you for that, as well. For mwah, this has been the most delightful, thought-provoking, moving, titilating, charming...fucking awwwesome/awwwe-inspiring/extraordinary site I have read/written on/been introduced to. Many Blessings!

I don't mind being censored. In fact, I would relish it. My recent post regarding the British author John Fowles is a case in point. What I say there is rather horrible, if you bother to read it.

But I'm only doing in my imagination to Fowles himself what he did to his stand-in (alter-ego if you must) in "The Ebony Tower," a book which I had once given to my older sister as a Christmas present years ago.

I've also publicly called for a World Court trial of President Bush and his staff. Is that "politically incorrect" at this time? . . . I ask you, the administrators at Open Salon, just what set of criteria are you going to employ when you decide upon political or aesthetic judgment? . . . I wonder about that.