Can we discuss if "Porkys" was good for straights?

You get to discuss whatever you want, HH.

I humming old Amish tune with a harmonica.

- Open My Eyes That I may See.
- O Happy Day,
- In The Garden.
`
Kathleen Battles lyrics:`I love Porky.
plus:`Where are the lame old dinosaurs.
Jungle! Womoweh the Lion Sleeps today.
Doodlebugs. The great pit doggie bog dog.
I Know a chicken who will crow in a mountain.
All The Pretty Little Horses - by Laurie Berkner.

I adore David Rakoff, but he gets weirdly rigid about some kind of carved in stone comedy rules that he seems to have. He got this way about Life is Beautiful. Don't even mention Robin William, ever, around him. Or sad clowns in general.

I haven't seen Bruno, but I suspect he's not good or bad for gays, any more than David Rakoff is good or bad for gays, or jews, or any other minority, whose dignity he seeks to protect.

Shouldn't the question be whether or not it's funny? And from what I gather from reviewers I respect, it is and it isn't.

So I have to go see it?
OK Kerry, I'm on it...

And here I was worrying about the Austrians, I thought Bruno was about Austrians. Have not seen it, but did see Borat. Cohen's technique is not a "minstrel", what he does is he creates an extreme character and puts on that character everything we demonize about that particular "other". The character then like a mirror reflects back to the mainstream culture, their fears, their stereotypes and their misconceptions. The

Isn't Cohen's purpose in his films to offend as many groups as possible? I doubt that gays will be the only ones offended. I must say I like most of his humor, but I'll wait for the DVD on this one. I don't mind being late to popular fads or events. It's all just marketing schemes and hype to fill the theaters anyway.

It's a movie, for crying out loud. Some people are waaaaaaay too sensitive.

BTW Cohen is a disgusting pig.

Good God, what film did those two see? I just saw it last night and it was hilarious and if there's ANYONE rational out there and sees it as bad for gays they should have been one of the people duped IN the film. As Harry said, if it's a consensus that it is bad, can we then discuss Harold & Kumar, Porky's and any other film that uses campy humor in the portrayal of people from the South?

Dang. You stole my limelight. I was all ready to cover my Bruno beat again...since the movie opens today. Well, you already know the answer if you read my 4th of July post, I Am Proud of Bruno.

Also, Cohen is a clown. His aim is to make people laugh. He is exceedingly great at this.

Bad for gays??? It's a MOVIE not a "movement" ...for the love of Pete.
Look - I am a gay man and "Bruno" is completely irrelevant. The actions of a few DO NOT dictate the actions of the WHOLE. Only idiots are going to think Bruno is "real". Those people aren't going to be swayed by anyone or anything in any respect, so it doesn't matter.
And Harry Homeless is right on the money: does the slutty, stupid, vapid, whoreness of Paris Hilton represent all straight women all over the country? Did the Evans family on "Good Times" who lived in the projects represent all black families across the country? Did the bigotry of Archie Bunker represent every single white man in the U.S ? No...
It's entertainment. Period. And if people are going to use crappy movies as a barometer for deciding who gets and who doesn't get basic human rights, then we have a LOT MORE to worry about than Sacha Baron Cohen's latest flick.

Only if you watch it. I found Borat boorish.

oooohhhh...not wide enough to hit Loveland. We'll have to take this assignment to Denver....

Now, I thought Brian Kinney was excellent for gays....but not everyone thought so. I thought he was the clearest thinking, most sane dude on Queer as Folk.

I have this very dear friend who has clear opinions on this sort of thing. He's gay and the Pride parades always piss him off in terms of "it's the damn drag queens that get on the news"..... he always gets so vexed by this. Why? Because the queens were not helping to further the cause of getting people to understand that all gays are not queens....and gays are regular normal people who pay taxes, hold jobs, fall in love, and want to have children.

I suspect he's feeling the same about this film

So I totally understand why even though "it's just a film" some people would believe that it is harmful to gays.

Ultimately I think he's good for gays - Stellaa put it very well, the character is meant to be reflecting straight people's fears of gays back to them - and it's always hilarious to see how befuddled they are when confronted with the ludicrousness (sp?) of their unfounded fears becoming founded.

Right On Sandra !

Harry has a point. Why is he a representative? I think blacks went through this. They didnt like being portrayed only as pimps and drug dealers, but once they gor more varied or traditional roles, they didnt seem to mind if some played pimps and drug dealers. Then again is Cohen essentially wearing black face? The character is a bunch of stereotypes. But equality is only achieved by treating everyone the same, not better, worse or different in any way. Anyone who can't laugh at themselves is a moron. Others are smart enough to know they are ridiculous. And Cohen has a right to satire.

"The Eternal Jew" is a movie for crying out loud. Some people are way too sensitive.

It is a really interesting question. I think many see a strict either/or case with regard to questions like these. I think it is a bit more complex than a simple either or.

First, some interpret the question as; is Cohen meaning to produce something detrimental to gays. I think that is an easy no. Cohen's comedy is kind of consciousness raising. I love how Borat removes the pretty justifications for bigotry, and I suspect Bruno will do the same. His products are gradually improving over time.

The additional question presented is; are simple minded Americans capable of processing such a product, and suspending their prejudices in order to raise their consciousness? The answer is that some will, and some wont. I dont think non bigots will be influenced to hate gays any more than bigots will see their idiotic beliefs reflected back to them. The greatest issue is that difficult subjects dont have completely non offensive means of discussion. That is the underlying flaw in political correctness. And while the other extreme of all shock, all the time does not accomplish anything, a sensible balance should be affected. Cohen's art makes it possible to raise the subject in ways that sometimes gets ignored. But is American culture mature enough to process it? Yes, no, no, and no.

Cohen is mocking stereotypes - it is a supremely sophisticated form of ironic humor.

Yeah, what Stellaa and Sandra said. And I hope you don't mind that I posted before seeing the film, Kerry. I think you'd let it go for Baubo.

"Haven't seen it, won't see it, wouldn't be prudent." Bush 41. Seriously, who cares. Gay and lesbians have made so many strides towards acceptance and mainstream in this country it's the same as asking us if cartoons are bad for kids. Please, let's discuss some important movies here. Just a suggestion. To answer the question, if gay or lesbians are offended by the sophmoric antics of a man who can't make his living other than being a perpetual high-school clown, then, fine, be offended, but my feeling is...don't see the stupid thing, and base your self-esteem on those who love you and strangers who accept your lifestyle like me. Nobody's business but your own.

I dont think it is about gays and lesbians being offended. They would already understand the farce. It is about dominant culture seeing its false perceptions validated. That is exactly why so many dont get it. Point missed, lesson lost.

The same can be said for the over-the-top antics of Gay Pride Parades. One finds it acceptable or not dependant upon one's proclivities. Not everyone that saw Borat actually believed that Khazakhs actually "Ran the Jews"...

"I dont think it is about gays and lesbians being offended. They would already understand the farce. It is about dominant culture seeing its false perceptions validated. That is exactly why so many dont get it. Point missed, lesson lost."

Well put Bill...couldn't have said it better myself

I believe that if most of the critics on either side would pull their fingers out of their asses long enough to find out which way the wind is blowing, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. The social barometer has risen so much in the last two decades regarding this issue and as a result, most of this ninny-farting is moot. So what if he plays the minstrel? Sometimes the minstrel is just being a clown.

"I love how Borat removes the pretty justifications for bigotry, and I suspect Bruno will do the same."

how is that, bill s? i thought borat monetized bigotry in very weird and disturbing ways, but i am often too uncool to get it.

I would love to a sophisticated ironic comedy about straight people, exposing what disgustuing murderous pigs they are.

But I doubt that Sacha Baron Coehn can take on the "C Street House."

How did Borat remove the "prettiness"? He had a particular skit where he crashed a Southern dinner club. The members practiced false, manicured table conversation. Borat introduced elements which aggravated their prejudices. There were many other skits with the same device. A rodeo which was xenophobia and racism dressed in the flag, etc. It was about removing the veneer and exposing the underlying prejudice.

As a gay man of colour, we've had so much shit heaped upon us for years and years.

I for one am glad we can laugh at ourselves.

Who doesn't find humour in the odd, unusual, and strange?

Gays are no different than straights. We're as boring and ugly as everyone else.

As my sainted grandmother used to say "their shit stinks as bad as mine."

For me as long as the movie is funny, the gay part doesn't matter to me one iota.

So I'm going to follow my grandmother's advice:

Shit stinks, gay or straight!!

I am wasp ,54 ,years hetero... Borat is in poor taste. not offensive/not funny to me.