JULY 20, 2009 2:08PM

Birthers Gone Wild: "He is a citizen of Kenya!"

Rate: 26 Flag

How the Birther Movement (explained pretty well here) captured the angry right-wing imagination remains a mystery to me. But poke around on any conservative political site  -- or listen to talk radio -- and you'll soon find a fervent army of true believers as determined as they are zany.  Just check out this video below, shot at a town meeting in Delaware apparently earlier this summer (if any has any details, send them in). It shows supporters of the Birther movement  roughing up the state's single U.S. House member, Republican Mike Castle.


As these sorts of displays persist, I think you'll have conservatives positing their own big conpsiracy:  Which brilliant Democratic strategist  bankrolled a movement guaranteed to make the conservative base seem crazier than ever before? (H/T WashingtonIndependent.)


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thanks for the post Kerry. I posted my own I hate stupid people post today as well.

What is wrong with people that they feel compelled to believe this crap?
We should never underestimate the power of ignorance.......
I posted a post demanding that we recognize and show tolerance for Stupid-Americans. They have rights, too.

It seems that a judge has agreed to hear this nonsense...refiled and renewed.
this must be the day for stupid people posts. this is the third one i've read today.

i agree with the lady in red on one point: i, too, want my country back.
Is Kenya a spoke of evil looking to take over the U.S.?

This whole uproar would be funny, if it weren't scary. These people are working themselves up to something that could be the absolute nadir of American history. (Quick, give these people some health care...and hopefully a job.)
“There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.”
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1774 – 1832)

Words well spoken, as shown by this video chip.

- rated
People will believe whatever fits their prejudicial pre-conceptions.

Remember the bullshit story circulating during WWII regarding Asian women? How about Jews having horns?

People are gullible - as is attested to by videos such as this, and without them guys like P.T. Barnum would have been poor.
Something of the same nuttiness exists for the left wingers who are convinced that the US government was involved in a conspiracy to cover up 9/11.

There is a combination of naivety, paranoia, and stupidity that makes up part of the American psyche. I'm just glad the right wingers are showing everyone else now just how dumb they are.
Interesting and frightening at the same time. It almost could be titled "From those Wonderful Folks Who Brought You 'Kristalnacht'".
Would these same fine citizens be raising the same ruckus if the president were named John O'Neal and were the son of an American woman and a man born in Ireland? I think not. I fear that there is latent racism in this, barely glossed over by a thin veneer of false patriotism.
I'd laugh if this much stupidity didn't make my brain explode.
Unfortunately, we have birthers and Holocaust deniers right here on OS. People will throw all sign of reason out the door when it gives them to permission to listen to their meanest and most bigoted instincts. At least they get to show the world how incredibly stupid they are.
And by the way, here is a link to Pres. Obama's birth certificat--issued in Hawaii. (from the L.A. Times)
I don't think it's zany, Kerry. I think it's scary and sad.
Lemmings unite. I know several people who believe this crap. My question to them is "Do you think the Republican Party and Hillary Clinton did not look into the allegations?" Please if there was any truth to the rumor Hillary and McCain would have jumped on it faster than a Lobbyist contribution.

And why would the state of Hawaii lie? Obama may be president with all the power of the presidency now, but before the election he was just a junior senator trying to get the democratic nomination. No power, no pull with no ability to cover up his birth.

I wonder where these good freedom fighting folk were when Bush was drafting the Patriot act?
I've always thought that there was no blame in ignorance, but that willful ignorance was something altogether different. These people not only don't know, they don't want to know, adn that's a pity.

Sometimes I think that H. L. Mencken was far to optimistic about the nature of his fellow Americans.

And Bill, of course Jews have horns, I've heard shofars blown with my own ears.
oh, i thought you meant a different birther movement
Even if it were true that Obama was born in Kenya or some other nation, I would still prefer him to John McCain.
Just like the Conspiracy Theory I just posted on the moon landing, why is it these people always sound like Paula Abdul after four Vicodin and three shots of liquor? I'm amazed at the fact that while we withstood 8 years of Bushian rule, we never sounded like drunk ass rednecks gone wild.
Holy crap! I hope there’s some political gain for the administration or dems on this, but as Lea says, it just seems scary to me.

But too bad the media spotlight’s not on this little trend. I’d like to see a big mother-f’in space born spotlight on it. That way, after Brian Williams reported it on NBC Nightly News, and after the pundits have at it, Saturday Night Live could do a sketch w/that woman in red, just like they did with the woman who told McCain that Obama was an Arab.
It must be in the water. I lost my shit earlier when I re-posted a Nelson Mandela tribute post to another site and some asshat there suggested I give him a necklace for his birthday.
I wrote a post denouncing the stupid and racist for being stupid, racist, tools who would always do their masters' dirty work without realizing it. And I offered them a way out: education.
But that's the rub. Here in America, we've managed to make "education" something that the elite have. Anyway. Kerry. I'm trying like hell to be Camus-like in my eloquence, Simone-Weil-like in my bravery, and all I want to do is pull the cover over my head and cry like a little girl.
Four of you Adsense ads are right wing propaganda, including how to keep track of Ann Coulter's shenanigans. That is Priceless! Personally, I wouldn't care if Obama was born at the North Pole. I think he is just what our Country needs at this time in history.
Man, the people in that video are friggin' nuts. How can you reach anyone like that? I don't think you can.
Having just seen (and howled my way through) "Bruno," I'd like to see what Sacha Baron Cohen could do with this crowd!

(Btw, I see 5 triangles. But I'm guessing there's a 6th.)
::maniacal frothing at the mouth noises::
Laurel, that's EXACTLY what I was thinking. When's Bruno going to show up!
I like the very beginning, where we can see her hand waving to be called on, frantically. It's like the whole scene was framed by Spielberg. You just knew what was coming.
Was that from my last family reunion? I didn't even see the cameras there.
I read the politico piece and watched the video. Amazing what people believe and espouse. I was not familiar with the "birthers" but will watch in the future. I suspect we'll see more of this. Huckabee? Palin? Or is it too far right?
I'm thinking there might be good reason to focus on improving education. These peeps are downright scary.
Well, that's scary.
I'll just say this. Why would Obama spend almost a million dollars and hire a law firm to aggressively attack anyone who claims he is not a US Citizen. If he is it's an easy fis. Just let the Birth Certificate be released. The Certification of Live Birth that he DID show is not valid as it was granted to any baby living in Hawaii at that time REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY WERE BORN. This will not go away any time soon. It it looks like a duck and it acts like a duck, it's not a chicken.
I just watched Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine. For, er, zaniness, it would be hard to beat his interview with the brother of Oklahoma City conspirator Terry Nichols. This brother, who is free despite having admitted to helping Nichols and McVeigh test some bombs on his property, brags to Moore about his firearms collection, rants about the inevitability of a violent uprising, but concedes that private ownership of weapons should probably not include nukes. Why? "Because there are some crazies out there."

Yes, there are some crazies out there. And they are armed. They scare the bejeezus out of me.
@ DJohn . . .

You're a bonehead. I was born in a Portland, Oregon hospital in 1965 from a mother born in Colorado to a father born in Idaho and the only vital record that exists of that event, and one that is perfectly valid as my "birth certificate" (for any purpose I've ever submitted it from passports to admission to practice law) is entitled as follows: Oregon Health Division Center For Health Statistics Certificate of Live Birth.

So are you suggesting that it isn't proof I was born in Oregon, isn't proof that my parents aren't from where it claims, that I'm not really the child of the parents who raised me, or that because the entire population of the United States hasn't been able to personally handle and inspect my birth certificate that it is somehow invalid?

Which is it?

"Obama Birthers" are morons.

And Obama probably turned loose a few lawyers on a valid tort theory (common law and statutory in many jurisdictions) of "per se" defamation, where the allegations are presumed to cause damage to the plaintiff if and when someone engages in groundless:

•Attacks on a person's professional character or standing;
•Allegations that an unmarried person is unchaste;
•Allegations that a person is infected with a sexually transmitted disease;
•Allegations that the person has committed a crime of moral turpitude.

i.e. moral turpitude (Obama a lawyer lying about his birth) and/or attacks on professional character or standing (a lawyer lying or not eligible to hold higher office by virtue of his birth circumstances when in fact it is unfounded).

Because stupid shit like this has a way of gaining traction with stupid people to the very great professional detriment of people like President Obama and they should be dealt with swiftly with cease and desist orders--I'm sure he never sought "actual damages" which he could have had he not been elected but not once he got elected.

Do you know where John McCain was born? I'll give you a hint--it wasn't in one of the 50 states.
mysteryposter-Riddle me this. Do you think that Obama would at least know WHAT hospital he was born in? Then why does his sister say he was born in one place Queen's Medical Center in Honolulu while Obama contends that he was born at Kapi'olani Medical Center. I know maybe he is a twin!!!
Not only that but what about the fact that the following records have yet to be released: Obama/Dunham marriage license, Soetoro/Dunham marriage license, Soetoro adoption records, Punahou School records, Occidental College records, Passport, Columbia College records, Harvard College records, Illinois Bar Records, Medical records, Illinois State Senate schedule (lost apparently). That's an very big list of "missing, lost or unrealeased" records for someone who is our President. Don't you think? What is he hiding?
You know, she does have a point. Her father did fight in the Pacific as part of the Greatest Generation, so if she wants her country back she should probably get it.
Alas, never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
If you set an idiot trap you're bound to attract at least one idiot, and you have.
Even the Honolulu newspaper got in on the conspiracy - at the ground floor - having listed his birth in their birth announcements.
They were clairvoyant and sly, weren't they?
At least our resident idiot stays with these type conspiracy theories and has, so far, stayed away from the Illuminati ones.
Bolsheviks, Brownshirts and our own right wingers share the same "mind", and are the most easily duped simpletons in history.

PS-- Obama doesn't have to fight these "Fundraising-from-the Morons" lawsuits. They keep getting thrown out of courts across the land. Of course we know who is responsible for that - The Illuminati!
DJohn knows the Lizard People aren't responsible --the Anterian Pigmen are behind this conspiracy.

I call these nutballs the Catch 22 people. Too captive of their low intelligence to know they have low intelligence. So, they lay it open in public, with no clue as to how stupid it makes them look. GW Bush, for example.

However, it would be cruel to merely poke fun at the neuronically challenged. I say we join together as a community of concern and each of us donate a stem cell to DJohn.
These people sound just like Timothy McVeigh. I hope the conservative element is happy the next time they promote some nut job killing innocent children.
@ocularnervosa: only the unborn are innocent in the fringe-right mind. Original sin and all that.
In all seriousness, every time I see Obama walking through a crowd of people - all those camera-phones raised and aimed - I feel so anxious it makes me queasy. There are lots of Timothy McVeighs in America. Lots of gun nuts, their Whiteness offended, who want "their country" back.
All I have to say is this: When a libeeral hardliner like susan Estrich starts calling Obama out he is in REAL trouble. But hey you sheeple keep following your leader to wherever he wants to take you. http://www.creators.com/opinion/susan-estrich.html?columnsName=ses
This woman's crazy twin lives in my hometown. The scariest thing of all is that these people believe with all their heart what they are saying! And they are COMPLETELY unhinged. Listen to the anguish in that grating, strident, yelling speech. Listen to how you can hear her yelling out the Pledge louder than anyone, with a particular lusty emphasis on "under God." These people feel they are being attacked. Maybe if I could stomach listening to O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Coulter, etc., I could get a better grasp on why.
I get angry at people like this, but then I start to feel incredibly sorry for them. It is so sad that there are such stupid, irrational, paranoid people out there. Their lives must be absolutely miserable.
I'm sure at least half odd these people were the same fucknuts that were trying to change this very law in order to get Arnold the presidency a few years ago. Sadly this disabuses us of our image of the intellectual east coast liberal. She may have been born in the US but I wonder if perhaps she was a little too long in the birth canal and needed just a bit more oxygen than she got. Perhaps they should be called the Breech Birthers for the the sake of accuracy.
Bet my flag's bigger than yours.
Perfect headline, btw.
Walter, what you posted was not the long form Birth Certificate. What you posted was a form that can be used but it does not contain all the information that is on the Birth Certificate.

Mysteryposter, Are you saying that McCain could not run? I think you need to go back and reread, if you read it in the first place, what the birth requirement is. You don't have to be born in one of the 50 states.

Follow the money. Obama and the DNC has spent millions of dollars defending these suits. All they had to do is hand a judge a piece of paper and it would all go away. That piece of paper is his long form birth certificate. Why won't they do that? Why not put an end to it right now?

Legally Obama admitted to all the items in the suit as he failed to file an answer to the interrogatories put to him in the suit. Why would he not answer the interrogatories? Because it is done under oath. If he would have answered them he would have had to lie. Clinton was impeached for doing Monica, he was impeached for lying about it. Obama could not risk answering and then being discovered what he did.

We also know that he attended Fransiskus Assisi School under the name of Barry Soetoro where he was listed as a citizen of Indonesia.

We also know that Obama lied on his application for a law license. He stated that he was never know by a different name. We do know that he went to school under the name of Barry Soetoro. So he lied on his law application.

The government of Kenya says they have his birthing records and the delivery records from Ann Soetoro. from where he as born in Mombosa, Kenya. His paternal grandmother not only says he was born in Kenya but she was at the birth. She made this claim in a telephone interview.

We know that Obama traveled as a young man to Pakistan. He could not have done that on an American passport as travel to Pakistan was forbidden. So what nations passport did he travel on?

Finally, an Air Force officer was given orders overseas. He filed a motion in court to determine if they were legal orders. If the Commander in Chief is not legally in that position then he can't issue the orders. They were scheduled to appear in court when the Air Force, without explanation, rescinded the orders. Later, because the company he worked for did DOD work he was fired on orders from the DOD, according to the owner of the company. Who twisted who's arm? The military doesn't work that way on it's own.

So if you don't think there are questions left to answer then you have the answer to these. So would you please explain them to me/
Looks like the conspiracy nuts are already on here. Didn't Salon once publish an article on the psychology of conspiracy nuttery?

Personally, I looked at the video and waited for a fistfight. None was forthcoming. Perhaps you should revise the language used to described the video, for the Deaf? All I saw was a crazy lady shaking a baggy.
Rolling eyes.
Another one. Oy!
Walter posted the legal birth certificate.
Obama is not spending millions to have lawsuits dismissed by judges calling them frivolous. This service is free.
Pakistan wasn't on the No Travel list.

Nothing you posted hasn't been completely debunked.
It's actually easy to find the truth, even easier than it is to find the kind of whackass lies that sane people can see through immediately.

PM DJ, Cat...He's the keymaster....are you the gatekeeper?
The Mothership draws near.........
I hate to say it, but if McCain had been elected, there would be people making the same argument. McCain was not born in the US, but in Panama, albeit in the Panama Canal Zone on a US military base. Technically, it can be argued that he is not a "natural born citizen" per the requirement of the Constitution. There is an enormous difference between arguing this technicality, which may or may not be legitimate, and trying to promote a vast conspiracy and cover-up regarding Obama's birth. These "birthers" are absolutely nuts. In all honesty, they really scare me.
Know what cracks me up more than the stupidity of the "birthers?" People who claim to be experts on Hawaiian birth certificates who have probably never set foot there. All they're doing is repeating the nutjob talking points.

I've got another term for "birthers."


Because they've lost on ever single level they've tried to play this game. The Supreme Court, which contains people like Alito and Thomas, didn't even want to mess with this crap. What does that tell you? Are those two on board with the conspiracy?

If so, "birthers," you need to go shoot yourself. It's over. You lost.
I probably shouldn't talk about such things, but I can't help wondering: How long before one of these nutjobs tries to kill Obama? The right wing is practically egging them on.

Clearly, there are still a lot of Americans who just can't accept a black president.
@John Henner

Here's a more-or-less transcript:

This lady in red who has her hand up..
Thank you.
Congressman, um, Castle,

All I want to know is:

I have a birth certificate here, saying I am an American citizen, with a seal on it, signed by a doctor, with a hospital administrator’s name, my parents, my date of birth, the time, the date. I want to go back to January 20, and I want to know why you people are ignoring his birth certificate!

[crowd erupts with “yeah! woooo!”s]

He is NOT an American citizen! He is a citizen of Kenya!
I am an American, my father was an American, he fought in World War II, in the greatest generation in Pacific theatre [???? couldn’t quite hear that] in this country! And I don’t want this flag to change! I want my country back!

[crowd goes orgasmic now]

The congressman says, “If you’re referring to the president there, he is a citizen of the United States.”

[angry cries of protest from the crowd]

Then red dress lady pipes up again, and says:

“All the men and women who died for this country from 1776 to the present time! I think we should all stand up and give pledge of allegiance to that wonderful flag! People who sacrificed their lives for our freedom! Everybody stand up, and say… [some guy yells "Pledge of Allegiance!"]

Everyone repeats the Pledge of Allegiance.
I looked all over for this video...Kudos for the find....These people have the right to vote, the right to bear arms. They also have the right to be openly stupid and publicly ignorant often referred to as the freedom of speech.......Many of them are mad as hell and don't know why. This is what the Republican Party will be banking on and drawing from in 2012....My post re a Palin/Bachmann ticket doesn't seem so far fetched when you place it in the context that tis video provides.......
Jesus, it's the new American lynch mob. "Hey, not only is he not one of us, but he's been looking at our American women all funny."

Thank God for the Secret Service...
Catnlion is the classic example of the conspiracy theorist. There is no evidence that will convince him/her. The appearance of a "long form" birth certificate (which no one else has to produce to prove their citizenship, BTW) would be deemed a fake. The conspiracy will grow ever larger and he/she will become more delusional.

Obama is President. The Supreme Court refused to take the "birther" case (I'm sure they're part of the conspiracy too, though). He is an American citizen. The country will survive. Deal with it.

These are the same people who convinced a certain percentage of the population that George W. Bush's military record was superior to John Kerry's. There will always be people who create lies, and there will always be desperate, stupid people who believe them.

So, no Catnlion, we will not explain anything to you. You are beyond reach.

Well you are wrong about one thing. I'm very open to those who can make a point without calling names or trying to disprove one point by bringing up something off topic to deflect the question.

Let's start with a simple one. Obama did not answer the interrogories that were submitted to the court. What is the outcome for refusing to answer them? Why didn't he answer them? Is he above the court and exempt from the rules the rest of us must follow?
Catnlion, the only reference I can find to your bizarre claim is on nutjob websites. But I guess that's all part of the conspiracy too. Go with it. Pursue it. The rest of us have lives to live. There's enough, policy-wise, to criticize Obama on. It is the birth certificate issue that is the distraction.
Because the bulk of your "evidence" is found in one phony AP article e-mail hoax, it hardly lends credibility to anything else you say.
Obama doesn't have to answer "interrogatories" for cases that don't make it into court. The lawsuits are so stupid, and, by the way, so designed to elicit donations from the dupes, that they get tossed out before any response would be necessary.
All of your "serious questions" are answered here:

Beyond this one article that puts the lie to your pondering, they have an extensive library to make manure out of the rest of it.

It would be best if you didn't answer any Nigerian e-mails.

Maybe FindLaw has some forms so you can also file a lawsuit, and generate donations from the rest of the wilfully clueless.
Obama didn't answer the interrogatories because the courts have declined to review any of the cases. Man, you want to talk about frivolous lawsuits? All of these are the ultimate in frivolous lawsuits.

The Supreme Court refused to hear the case. Game, set, match, over. The losers, whoops, I mean birthers, who claim they have a case need to shut the hell up.

The highest court in the land told you to go pound sand.

You lose. End of story.
The request for the interrogatories went to the courts in the correct manner. They were due BEFORE the judge dismissed the case. He has until the due date to have the answers in to the court or they have to be rejected by the court by the due date. As of the due date, the case was still before the court, and the motion to dismiss had not been granted or the request for interrogatories had not been stayed. Therefore, according to the rules of the court, he admitted to everything in them.

Show me the rule of the court that shows I'm wrong? You won't find one. Ask on of our online lawyers, this site is full of them, what the rule is for them. Answer by the due date or get them stayed or dismissed or you admit to them.
The Republicans are scrambling, its apparent that security on Peebo needs to be beefed up...please! They are denigrating our elected president, who has been through the ringer, on his eligibility status. This ploy, a witchhunt after his significant visit to Africa signifies that the lower socioeconomic status is still more comfortable with FEAR than knowledge....

God help us all...
Man, this video went viral. You saw it here (possibly) first!
I've had trouble with people accepting my kids' birth certificates from Scotland, and they say across the top "Extract Entry of Birth" or some such. Over there, there is no "birth certificate" per se. What you get is a piece of paper that lists the information in the registry, thus confirming where and when you were born, parents' name etc. (no "race" though). Looks like the Hawaiian one is much the same, which is unfortunate as it just lends a microscopic amount of credence to the losers' case.

kipouros, thanks for transcribing. One bit you missed was that when the Lady in Red started on about the pledge, one loser yelled out "probably doesn't know it". As if a US senator of his age wouldn't know the words. No better measure of how far off their trolley these people have fallen.
There's nothing funnier that the Republican Leadership screaming for their followers to start "Fighting Obamas Socialist Take-Over of Healthcare"....while the Herd rushes about waving baggies and squealing "He's not a Citizen".

The Lunatics have been running the asylum that is the Republican Party for a while now, but it seems the padded room/straight jacket crowd is staging a Puscht and taking over from those considered safe enough to be allowed in the day room unshackled.
I'm waiting for the SNL reprise. Remember the crazy McCain lady?

What's frightening is these people are clueless about how stark-raving loony they sound. They need to turn off Fox News and get out and meet real people, in particular people who aren't exactly like them.
One more shot at those of you who drink the Obama Kool-Aid.

Stanley Ann Dunham Soetoro (November 29, 1942 – November 7, 1995) was mother to Barack Obama. She gave birth to Barack on August 4, 1961. That would make her 18 at the time of his birth.


The much touted citizenship requirement to be President has changed over time. You have to be a natural born citizen according to the law that was in place at the time of your birth. For President Obama it would have be the law that was in place from December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986.
If you were born between January 13, 1941 and December 23, 1952, you automatically acquired U.S. citizenship if both your parents were U.S. citizens and at least one had a prior residence in the United States. You didn't have to do anything special to keep your U.S. citizenship.
If only one parent was a U.S. citizen, that parent must have lived in the United States for at least ten years prior to your birth, and at least five of those years must have been after your parent reached the age of 16. To keep your citizenship, you must have lived in the United States for at least two years between the ages of 14 and 28 (called a residence requirement). However, as a result of a U.S. Supreme Court decision, if you were born after October 9, 1952, your parent still had to fulfill the residence requirement in order to pass citizenship to you, but your own residence requirement for retaining U.S. citizenship were abolished. If your one U.S. citizen parent was your father and you were born outside of marriage, the same rules applied if your father legally legitimated you before your 21st birthday and you were unmarried at the time.


So, to be a natural born citizen Obama's mother would have had to given birth to him after the age of 21, 16 + 5 at the time his birth. She wasn't, so he is not.

Where am I wrong. Without name calling please.
"The much touted citizenship requirement to be President has changed over time. You have to be a natural born citizen according to the law that was in place at the time of your birth."

Where did you read that? I think the frustration with these wild conpiracies, CnL, is that every time they get debunked, someone concocts some new fantastical wrinkle, insists that it's fact, then expects the world the stop and debunk it. It's a big rabbit hole.

That's not what the law says -- look it up here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution
He wasn't born in Kenya, catnlion.

He was born on U.S. Soil. He's a Citizen Su Generis.

It doesn't matter if either of his Parents were citizens. Residency requirements are only relevant if the child was not born in the United States.

You have no credible evidence at all that he was *not* born in Hawaii. Some freak claiming to have an audio tape of an interview he claims to have held with Obamas grandfathers second wife is not evidence.

Birth announcements in the local paper are.

So is that fact that a pregnant woman would have to be absolutely insane to take a long and uneccesary air-line flight while heavily pregnant, just to give birth in an undeveloped area with sub-par health services.

I see no evidence that Anne Dunham Obama was as crazy as Sarah Palin.

Just stop it. An ordinary birth certificate would be more than good enough for you if his name was Klaus Von Hertzig and his father was a Protestant German.

The bigotry behind the birther obsession reeks, even through a series of tubes.
Of course he was born in HI, where did you think he was born?

I come here day after day and read the crap that is posted about President Bush and Gov. Palin. Now something is started about the liberals savior. How could I not take the time to make you heads spin about him.

Remember what goes around comes around. Everybody wants to send the Bush administration to jail and talk about how Gov. Palin's son is really her grandson and other such notable crap. So the shoe is one the other foot for a few minutes.

How long do you want to wear it?
Bush repeatedly violated US Law and the International Laws of War.

He belongs in jail. Torture is illegal. BTW: Clinton also belongs in jail for knowingly turning captives over to Nations which he knew would torture them.

Some morons spun up a Story about Palins son being her Grandson - and no Democratic Senator or Congressperson fed it, no Liberal flappy headed pundit pushed it.

When it was soundly debunked, people shut the hell up about it.

Maybe Jeff Rense or some other "Lizard People" freak is still on about it, I don't pay much attention to the Area 51 crowd. However, even at places like Democratic Underground and Dailykos, that conspiracy theory was dropped a week after it was floated.
I see, CnL. So the Bither movement admittedly isn't based on fact, but on certain conservatives' need for tit-for-tat politics, truth be damned.

Glad we got that out of the way.
Wow, that is quite illuminating.

No, they're stupid.

Lots of people here write stuff that I love to read. There are a bunch that I don't agree with most of the time. They are the two groups of people that I come here to read.

OS has it's own Birthers. How many front page blogs did you post on Gov. Palin? What about the jail Bush and Chaney blogs? Have you noticed the hate that some people write? Way off the deep end.

I'll still come here are be part of the group. Unless you delete me I'll still read Saturn and Elena and I love O'Really. You do have to admit that OS has it's own over the top Birthers. It's not tit for tat or anything like that, it's just making a point that both sides have their nutjobs, but the group in the middle rules.

So if you will excuse me I missed the last Top Chef Master and I want to see what Liz has to say about it.
Three words: Fucking. Nut. Jobs
How does this woman have a birth certificate from the United States of America. The orginial birth certificate I have was issued by the State of New York. I wasn't aware that the USofA issued birth certificates. I thought only the state or territories of the US issued birth certificates. I once needed a duplicate birth certificate to apply for a passport. I could not find my orginial certificate. The state of New York issued me a certificate of birth that didn't have the name of the hospital where I was born. The certificate issued by the state of New York was accepted by the US Government and I got my first passport. Michele Achille
Eggs Ackley, Kerry. This birther fantsy is a wild and scary ride at times, but just like I gotta believe Citigroup is already known to history as lower than robber barony, so also are these folks already known to history as political flat-earthers, the far right's version of the Left's "cia ran heroin for the pope" BS that filled smoky room right thru the 80s. This stuff can, at times, go away.

The part that should worry is the demagoguery of demanding a spontaneous recital of the pledge. That was coercion.

I note they did it out of step. Tends to happen when it is compelled, and not simply scheduled.

The Pledge is moving to me, and many, but it is not a martial call. As absurd as calling for it in some nebulous referendum on a well-proven birth might seem to educated people, absurdity is beside the point for mobs.

When demanded, as this blue-jeaned polemicist does, it gives the illusion of One Mind, an inherently intimidating thing.

Deserves close observation and comment, always.
A lot of these dishonest people don't cite their sources or when they give a picture, they describe context in a misleading manner or with no context at all so they can get away with quite a bit if the people are slaves to their wishful thinking.


Hank Williams, Jr. says Obama doesn't like the National Anthem


No, Obama's grandmother didn't say he was born in Kenya

I think everyone is going about this verifying if Barack is a U.S. Citizen debate the wrong way. Ask instead: does he act like a U.S. Citizen? Look at his Credit history, what kind of debt is he carrying? second mortgage on the house?, does he eat at McDonalds occasionally?, does he have a vid game system in his home? and does he upgrade it regularly?, what about a big screen TV?, Does he own more than one vehicle and are they SUVs? You know all that fabulous American stuff.
I'd laugh if this much stupidity didn't make my brain explode.
Unfortunately, we have birthers and Holocaust deniers right here on OS. People will throw
all sign of reason out the door when it gives them to permission to listen to their meanest and most bigoted instincts. At least they get to show the world how incredibly stupid they are.