When rape is ok (and enjoyable)... or "This Week in Weeds!"
Ladies... is this man attractive enough to rape you?
So maybe I’m a little squeamish (I’ve never considered myself to be, but hey, you never know) or maybe I just don’t understand what an empowered woman is all about, but last night’s final scene of Weeds made me super-duper uncomfortable. For those of you who don’t follow what is still and always has been an amazing show, Nancy Botwin (Mary-Louise Parker) is a suburban mom who finds herself in the unlikely situation of selling pot to support her family. This leads her, season by season, deeper into the dangerous criminal underworld of drug dealers and organized crime. At one point, when questioned by her brother-in-law as to whether he should be worried, she famously answers, "Of course you should, it’s the drug business."
All of which somehow brings us around to last night, with Nancy coming to the realization that even the unborn son, of Esteban (the Mexican mafia boss (who also happens to be the mayor of Tijuana)) she is carrying will not be enough to keep her from ending up in a landfill with her lady parts cut out (presented as a fairly disturbing image in and of itself.) So after getting fairly plastered at a sushi bar she goes to confront aforementioned mayor and demands that if he is going to have her killed he should just do it now. And Mr. Mafia Boss’s reaction to that demand? He bends her over a table and rapes her, while angrily grunting at her that she does not dictate (I appreciated the word play) the terms of this relationship. So what could have and should have been an incredibly powerful moment for Nancy, one where she truly realizes the depth and danger of her situation, wasn’t. And why? Because the decision was made to portray her as enjoying it. Yup, while being thrown around and forcefully penetrated, she smirks and has moments of her eyes rolling back in her head, as if, with all of the stress in her life at the moment she just needed to be told what she was good for.
Granted, Nancy is a complex character, on a complex show, and one that has never shied away from the casual attitude toward sex that society seems to think only men should enjoy. She has had consensual sex with Esteban on numerous occasions and at times it has been portrayed as rough, and I myself have enjoyed some aggressive and almost violent sexual experiences (consensual, I PROMISE!)... but all of those were what this seemingly wasnt.. two people deciding to be rough and physical for their own enjoyment. To me, this offered the possibility that if the man is just dark and handsome and brooding enough then maybe no doesn’t really mean no...
I’m in no way writing this as a critique of Weeds. I love the show. I’m more interested in what was such a visceral reaction on my part. I mean, on such a well-crafted show I can only assume it was a reaction they were going for. Further, the show was created, and the episode was written by women. A woman thought this scene up and made it come to a very disturbing life. So.... Am I wrong? In this age of empowerment and feminism is it ok for a women to decide she wants to have a man forced upon her? It’s completely arguable that by getting drunk and going to see Esteban, demanding of him as she did, that she knew what would come of it... Is that ok? Is that train of thought ever going to leave the station in a woman’s mind?
I’ll end this with the qualifier that I am a 28 year old male. I understand that I have less than no idea how or what women think (or why they think it)... but I am willing to learn. So women (and more worldly men) of OS, please, educate me.
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The only thing I can think of is that they are going to a lot of trouble to establish Celia as part of some para military group in Mexico. She may be on hand later on to save Nancy and the baby from the drug lord.
This show is enthralling, funny, well written and complicated. I haven't seen the rape scene yet, and probably won't until Season 5 comes out on DVD, but it sounds to me like the writers are trying to push the envelope further and further.
I read where Mary-Louise Parker was upset that she had been talked into a nude scene that she felt lingered too long on her breasts. Now this. If they are writing things where women get raped and are enjoying it, things are screwed up in Hollywood. What next?
Rape fantasy is one thing, but I'm not getting that from this piece. What I'm getting is that this character was raped, in the usual effort to dominate, and this woman was shown to have enjoyed her domination, subtly enhancing the message that rape is acceptable. After all, women are whores anyway who ALWAYS enjoy penises in their vaginas.
Not seeing how she decided she wanted a man forced upon her; the way you've presented it, I'm hearing that she went to have a showdown and was raped.
Just don't confuse the "loving-it" rape scenario with anything resembling Reality, at least not the Reality that most women, i.e., normal, health women inhabit.
Being handsome "enough" is not enough to compensate.
With women and men, I guess you could say, briefly, that it's always about the boundaries. On TV... not so much.
I'd give you extra points for bravery here, but I can only rate your post once.
Showing a character hitting rock bottom and reacting badly to it isn't the same as endorsing the actions they take. For example, it would be false to look at Leaving Las Vegas as an endorsement for binge drinking. Similarly, Nancy's bizarre reaction to her rape can't easily be dismissed as an endorsement for a woman enjoying rape.
Rated & Cheers!
Is it possible that she is formulating a plan to use the rape to her advantage later on? Nancy's character has become so complex and entrenched in the drug world that this is one possibility that I can come up with....she is going to use it as a way to blackmail/frame him and use the rape to her advantage down the road.
Of course, remember I haven't even gotten through Season 4 yet....
So... is it that while all of those factors shouldn't mean that she is somehow more deserving of being raped, we all expect that those factors will eventually lead to her rape?
I'd to take mad_typists comment and take it slightly further... What if she was horny and knew that Esteban was too angry and disgusted with her betrayal to 'make love' to her? If she went there with the idea of provoking him into physically attacking her, hoping he wouldnt go too far because she is pregnant, then was does this become? In that situation does she have the power or does he? Isn't rape all about power?
But now, she no longer gets to use her sexuality. Her body, in a way is no longer her own, and that was a situation that happened way before the rape scene. Nancy thought her relationship with Esteban would keep her safe last year, and it did, till she betrayed him. Then she assumed that carrying his child would buy her some kind of amnesty. Finally, Nancy thought that she could at least exercise some control over the situation by threatening harm to herself. But Esteban used his sexuality to control her this time around, and degraded her in the worse way possible using it.
Now, obviously the show isn't endorsing that - in fact, I believe we're meant to see this development as a Very Bad Thing. It has taken all these events, up to and including the rape, for Nancy to realize what those poor girls last season went through - what it means to live a life where you're treated as an object only.
I assume that Nancy is at, or is near, rock bottom, so I imagine the rest of the season will focus not on her degradation, but her attempts to escape and regain control over her body and her freedom. I assume that the Jennifer Jason Leigh story arc will be used to illustrate just how Nancy got this fucked up in the first place, even before Jonah died and the drug dealing started.
did you say she's pregnant and got drunk? that message worries me almost as much as the rape...
better to be high than drunk while carrying a child.
That kind of lame nondefense is why marijuana advocates have such a hard time being taken seriously.... But hey sophie, I'd love for you to be able to prove me wrong...
In retrospect, I can only hope she means marijuana...
Screw them - I won't support this.
People make arguments all the time that men can't be raped because people don't think they can be forced to have an erection. As many men will tell you that's baloney. The fact that the body is betraying the person who is being raped is part of the power trip. I don't think that HBO is trying to say that women enjoy rape. It's saying that this particular woman did, and my guess is that that her enjoyment of this humilation and violence will be part of the trauma she has to deal with. It doesn't mean it's not rape. And it doesn't justify what he did.
For me, what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedrooms (or homes, in cars, or on their property, or even in the stall of a public restroom if that's their bliss) is completely their business. If they want to play rough, that's fine... as long as it IS completely consensual on both their parts, and both know it so well that any explanations are unnecessary.
There's a world of difference between rough sex between two willing parties and rape. In the consensual case, the point is still about giving each other sexual pleasure, and then putting on their clothing the next morning and treating one another with love and mutual respect.
Rape is about power: "I can use you any way I want--you are worth less than I am, and I have no compunction about impressing this fact upon you through physical force."
Showing any woman enjoying the latter would bother me, too. A lot.
The show is great, the scene was disturbing and was meant to be so, not just for the rape, which was bad enough, but for her complete loss of power and individual choice. That, to me, was what the rape symbolized. It's hard to watch, hard to experience, physically or emotionally, rape or no rape.
My 2 cents.
answer: The victim is always completely innocent.
Kwame, a little effort on your own will provide ample evidence that alcohol is, indeed, worse for the developing fetus than pot (or marijuana; I didn’t understand your final sentence). In fact, fetal alcohol syndrome is about as bad as it gets as far as substance abuse effects are concerned. Any medical text on neonatal care will enlighten you on that point. The internet can also provide useful info, but also a lot of BS, so be wary there.
My last sentence referred to the fact that I assumed by getting high sophie was talking about pot because that would be my preferred method of getting 'high', but i realized after writing that the term could apply to any number of drugs, with potentially even more harmful effects...
But ponder these two points... (A) just on the basic mechanics of how this works, the placenta is going to try to filter out any toxins that attempt to reach the fetus... and will do so by constricting the blood vessels in the placenta, disturbing the natural flow of oxygen and nutrients to the developing fetus... (B) All of the anecdotal evidence supporting its safety says that you need to smoke a massive quantity, as much as 2 - 3 grams a day... I can vouch for the fact that lots of regular marijuana smokers don’t consider 2 - 3 grams a day to be a sizable amount... but as i said this isn't where the discussion was meant to go... I invite either Mr. John Mayer or Ms. Sophiehatter to take the time to research the subject and then to post their findings... I was not surprised to find that it would be either of their first posts :)
And John, I believe if you reread the above you'll find that no where did I claim that this scene indicated that all women would enjoy this, nor that because I gather Esteban to have also enjoyed it, that all men long to rape... I think it was pretty obvious that the post was intended to generate discussion surrounding the topic of whether or not anyone could identify with where Nancy's character was coming from, not as a condemnation of the art itself. To the contrary, I think one of the validations of artistic work is it's ability to generate discussion...
In your worries that this type of discussion is somehow reminscent of totalitarian oppression, I think you miss the point that a free society is one which is free to discuss and even criticize that which is presented to us... No where above did it state that this sort of thing should be taken off the air or not shown, quite the opposite, this was a scene written by a woman, expressing what I am assuming to be a valid emotional perspective, my post was intended to provide me with some insight into a perspective with which I cannot relate...
But hey, I sure do appreciate the comments... :D
You wrote:
"Because the decision was made to portray her as enjoying it. Yup, while being thrown around and forcefully penetrated, she smirks and has moments of her eyes rolling back in her head, as if, with all of the stress in her life at the moment she just needed to be told what she was good for."
Yeah, I didn't get that scene really. I understand that she enjoys sex - on her terms - but I find it relatively hard to believe that she would have handled that particular situation with so much nonchalance. I could have seen her shooting the guy with his own gun more easily, honestly.
I don't really like the direction that they're taking the show, methinks. Maybe they'll prove me wrong and change it. One of the things I always liked about Nancy was that while she was as screwed up as they come, she always seemed to be able to manage to manipulate situations to her advantage.
Just my opinion.
"I absolutely agree with Trudge's comment. I thought it was crystal clear. Her facial expression revealed that she came to the realization that there is only one course of action for her. She's going to kill him. The rape was the deciding factor."
Well, then, I think I've regained my respect for the character. ;)
That said, Nancy absolutely DOES NOT represent most women. After all, she decided to dig herself deeper and deeper into the drug world instead of - oh, I don't know; getting a REAL job?!
This is a woman with some serious issues! She's never really dealt with her husband's death and acts out in dangerous, self-destructive ways. There's also an aspect of self-loathing to the character; she enjoys being punished for the things she does. Maybe she thinks she deserves to be treated badly? In her mind, submitting to the rape would serve as punishment for her betrayal?
Rape and humiliation (it was also disgusting how he humiliated her by leaving her bent over the table for his henchman to see) is never okay. Consensual rough sex on the other hand, is always a good time! This show has shown these 2 characters engaging in some mild to moderate S&M-type sex in the past. In those cases, consensual = A-Okay.
As far as her showing up drunk while pregnant with his child after recently betraying him by alerting the feds of his operation (ya gotta love television huh?).....Well yeah, I would think he would be just about as angry and disgusted as a person can get. But NOTHING ever justifies rape! If the show wanted to go the route of these two engaging in angry sex to help dispell some of the contempt...fine, but he should have waited until she sobered up and was in a better emotional state before dealing with her.
So, that's how this 27 year-old woman sees it. I can't speak for all women though.
Mari
As you note, Nancy is a complex character, and she has occasionally participated in rough sex before. However, what I saw last night was nothing short of rape and the entire scene was dehumanizing and disturbing. That she appeared to enjoy it, just sent my temperature through the roof. I don't think people - and men specifically - should be given the sense that rape is ok or ever enjoyable. role-playing with consenting adults is one thing, but this was not consensual sex. so what is Nancy is stupid-enough to put herself in a dangerous situation or if the man is tall, dark and handsome.
my reaction was pretty visceral, and made me think back to last season's episode where Esteban spanked Nancy in the back of his limo, and to previous seasons where Nancy has found herself in these sorts of violent sexual encounters. seems like we've been headed down this slippery slope for a while now, and i just failed to notice.
unfortunately, it is not just showtime. other networks are also digging up this violent-sex theme, and directing it as predominantly female audience, e.g., TrueBlood where almost every sex scene is violent (and not just gory). I might have to watch less television.
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