Does that mean when we played 'doctor' it was okay?

You are right, it was different..so different.When I used to volonteer at school I was not allowed to hug a child.It was a no no.And that to me is so wrong.Not to be allowed to hug someone to tell them that they are appreciated no matter how old they are.
R

Well-done, Miko.

here here...

Education, honesty and openness is the key. But, first we must learn to be honest with ourselves, and truly examine what, if any negative effects education will bring to society.

The fear of knowledge comes from the fear of abuse of that knowledge. But that same knowledge can combat the abuse of said knowledge

Linda: That is the kind of thing I'm talking about. How PATHETIC that they told you not to hug a child. What an unhealthy message that sends; not only to children but to the public as a whole. Its like they expect someone to do something.

Amanda: This is what happens when I watch too much news.

Stud: I agree all the way.

Thank You, Lady Miko!
My daughter glories in her precious beautiful body. She has Vulva Pride, and knows the difference between her clitoris, urethra, and vagina. Still, she has insisted to me that she is never going to have sex, because it seems too gross (She's eleven, and I am going to enjoy this attitude of hers while I can).
Rated, of course!

Sex is taboo but we sure will give kids games that involve spraying blood and wasting life forms. I agree with you Lady Miko. My kids did so much better with the facts than the rumors of evil. ('Course, I ended up in the school office a couple of times because my kids "knew" information no one was comfortable talking about.)

One of you best posts, Miko. Thanks.

What prompted, historically, the confisuin of the twoa; innocence/ignorance? What social processes were at work and in which societies first, and why?
Thanks for this. Lots to ponder.
R.

bftq: I think that is a beautiful thing.

Lin: You actually ended up in the office for that? That is disturbing but your children are what matters, not making the school 'comfortable' Rock on!

Sheepdog: Wow, thanks!

Jon: Oh yes! Excellent questions. Not to pick on the "west" but I think after the fall of Rome people started to get uptight. Saint Augustine didn't do us ANY favors! Even as recently as the 19th century, nitwits like Graham and Kellogg were screwing us up, BIG TIME! And that crap lingers still.

Amei: Nothing wrong with that.

I was too scared to do that. Then after I moved out when I was 19 . . .uh . . .things changed! LOL

...and yet, as a society we are terribly casual about the amount of violence our children are exposed to.

Lorianne: A sad double standard, truly.

Very moving and true Miko:)

Egypt was ruled by cats. Nuff said.

Lady Miko, what would we do without you? Let's see...your education is in history, you present your topic without guile, and say, let's discuss! Interestingly, I saw Babies today. In one scene an 11 month old pulls on his brother's penis. These are children on the African desert and they are little attired due to the heat. I heard a couple of uneasy squirms and sighs over that. Why? A child is curious and after taking a look at his brother's penis, the baby sat and gazed at his own. Of course he did! So, well done, Lady...thank you sooo much for shedding much needed light on this...and you always do that with such a light touch...xox

Trig: :)

Andy; Well, yeah! Cats and Dogs kicked ass, even then! Woo!

Robin: No thanks needed, hon. Its so interesting how in some aspects, we have advanced, yet in other areas, we are less civilized than our ancestors. xoxoxox How was the film?!!

Robin: I just watched the trailer and sadly its not playing in my area, it looks wonderful. Aw!

I've always been frustrated that, as a teacher and childcare worker, I've never felt free to be as honest with children (about sex and other aspects of real life) as my parents were with me. You're right; ignorance and innocence are not synonymous, and accurate information can only help children live happier, healthier lives in the long run.

I don't understand why Americans are so hung up on sex. To read the local papers, they are obsessed with it down here. I too started at a very early age, and got in a lot of trouble for it! When they asked me why do you do that? I simply answered, "because it feels good"!

Eva: 100% with you on that!

Kenny: I know, its like some people think you need a reason to do it. Those who need a 'reason' aren't doing it right! LOL

This is so damned smart. When I became suddenly single my daughter and I shared a townhouse as adults. I was shocked to see her walk out of her room naked and into the bathroom. I questioned her and she reminded me when the girls were young I came out of my room undressed or barely and if no men were present so could the girls. She reminded me I had told them I didn't want them to feel the same way about it I did growing up. She told me she was grateful and I'm glad.

Both my girls are fairly comfortable with their bodies (thigh issues aside) and needs now that they are women. I was afraid they would be as confused as I was. As far as ami's comment about children that age masturbating or even rubbing an area because it "feels good" it's normal and gently letting them know they need to do it in private works well.

Great post.

Lady, I really liked the film, it was beautifully photographed and there was no real dialogue. It was all the sounds of the babies and it was in three foreign languages with no subtitles. It really gave the feeling of being a baby in a world of language as we hear it where we are standing. One little thing, though. No men in the movie, really. I would say that there was maybe 2 minutes worth of film that featured adult men. That was odd to me...I'm not sure what to make of it. xox

Delightfully well written, though there are a few inaccuracies.
Incest between siblings has never been common, and is (and always has been) taboo even among the most primitive of cultures, religions, societies, and people, but incest between first cousins has always been quite common, and is still quite common today - with the exception of western cultures.
However, breeding between first cousins - though should be discouraged - isn't quite as dangerous as people have thought.
Though, it is true that prior to the to emergence of Judeo-Christian beliefs all cultures, societies, religions, and people were very expressive about sexuality, but since the Birth of Christ a rather heavy hand has been laid down upon all forms of sexual expression, and at the moment Christianity and Islam are the dominate religions of the world.
But Hindus, Buddhists, and most tribal religions still practice fertility worship and hold fertility festivals.
In the Christian religion, which is dominant in most of the developed nations, babies are considered born with the "original sin", and will go to hell if they are not baptized.
As a parent I think underage children should be discouraged from having sex (especially penetrative sex), but I believe it is possible to discourage children from having penetrative sex without shaming them for having sexual thoughts or engaging in riskless forms of sexual activity and sexual expression.
Yes, I know 'riskless' is not a word, but ya'll know what I mean.
Masturbation has no health risk what so ever, and neither does hand-jobs (as long as you wash your hands afterward). Talking about sex, and writing sexually explicit letters to your friends, also poses no health risk.
A girl dancing around - fully consciously - nude, or semi-nude, in the privacy of her home (or at a friends home) poses no health risk, even if she is dancing around nude with her friends.
Dancing around - fully consciously - nude at designated nude area (such as nude beach), also poses no health risk.
Oral sex poses little risk, especially if all parties involved have received the HPV vaccination (which should be given to anyone who wants it, free of charge).
Condoms, though not 100% effective (nothing is) do significantly reduce the chances of pregnancy and contracting an STD, and they are even more effective when they are used properly, and children should be taught that.
In the 18 years that I have been sexually active (I wasn't give the chance to have sex till my 18th birthday), I have had a lot of great sex, have never had bad sex, have never had sex I regretted, have never felt ashamed of anything I have done sexually, have never caught an STD, and to the best of my knowledge have never accidentally fathered a child, but I have had sex or engaged in sexual activities thousands of times, and the legacy I hope to pass on to my children is this:
Sex is fun, sex should be fun, and it is possible to be cautious and have very delightful sex - every time that you have sex or engage in sexual activity.

Who remembers Coming of Age in Samoa anymore? I miss Margaret Mead!

Aye, aye! Lady Miko. Yet you're putting the self-appointed PTA and PC police out of business. What are they going to bitch about? Kudos on the civilized critical thinking.

"I mourn for the loss of enlightenment we have suffered over the passage of time."

Me too, excellent post.

My 9 year old is awash with childhood innocent sexuality but I mourn the loss of protection from rampant, invasive pornography.

I gave up Huffington Post recently because they ran a full porn shot of one of Tiger Woods' mistresses. I am worn out of the full on assault on innocence these days.

I applaud your courage with this post. Something tells me that if I had written it, it might have been received differently but that's a different issue.

Robin: I want to see that so bad! Aw, BABIES!!!!!! (lol)

fetboy: Your children will be healthier and happier because of that. :)

Ardee: Hehe. A while back I was watching 80's ads on Youtube (lol) and there was this old dockers ad: men were standing around in a room talking about life and one of them said "everyone has their own summer of 42" When I realized the meaning, I laughed my rear off. priceless!

Thoth: LOL Isn't funny how common sense and hoesty piss some people off? I don't get it.

Jali: :) Yep and another wonderful thing about that is, it builds trust between parent and child. If children feel safe confiding in their parents THAT is the first stepping stone to a good relationship.

Will: Isn't that the truth.

Cat tails: I think it comes down to honesty. If my child saw something graphic in the newspaper or TV I would be upfront about it (age appropriately of course) but I also wouldn't blow a fuse over it.

Cappy: I think had you written it, the response would have been similar. Then again, I believe men are just a capable of talking to their children about sex as women are. In fact, it makes perfect sense.

I concur--exploration is normal. However, exploitation is not normal. Nuff said.

Walter: Of course.

But define 'exploitation'.. that is the trick.

Good post Lady M :).

Rated for thought.

Seer: YES! That is the touchy part of this issue. If you lived in the eastern part of the world, that would an entirely different definition than it does here in the west. To me exploitation is black and white: anything unwanted or harmful done to a person for the profit or pleasure of another.

Then we get into the issue of consent: which is a can of worms unto its self.

"Then we get into the issue of consent: which is a can of worms unto its self."
No it isn't.
In all US states the age of consent is legally set at least 16, and in quite a lot of states (including California) the age of consent is legally set at age 18.
I don't think anyone over the age of 18 (the age at which a person can legally vote) is in favor of overturning any of the age of consent laws, or reducing the age of consent.
The idea of adults being allowed to have sex with children is absolutely appalling (I'm certainly not in favor of it).

fetboy: I say consent is touchy because it is the 'law' v 'reality' I'm more referring to those under 18 with their peers, not minors with adults.

When you write something at the last moment, you tend to make mistakes, please delete the last two letters and keep this one instead.
Precious Lady Miko
The overwhelming majority of adults (especially) are opposed to allowing underage children to have sex, especially penetrative sex.
You won't find an adult anywhere (outside of pedophiles) who will say, "I think children should be having more sex".
Children having sex, whether it is with peers or adults is absolutely appalling, and adults would do well to discourage children from having sex, especially penetrative sex.
However, there is difference between discourage someone from engaging in activity and shaming them from ever even thinking about it.
When it comes to sex the knowledge is pretty broad and well documented, the laws are set, and the majority of people are both happy with the laws and the level of knowledge that is documented.
The knowledge to effectively protect oneself from accidental pregnancy and STD is out there, easy to find (free on the internet), and the majority of people think the illegal sex acts should stay illegal.
As a pro-sex adult, there are no federal laws I want to change, few state laws that I want to change, and I'm happy with the ability I have to obtain knowledge on sex.
All that I do want to change is the mind frame that too many people have of sex.
Sex is fun. Why deny it?
Oral sex has little risk. And 69ing is wonderful.
A woman can't get pregnant through anal sex. Duuh.
There is nothing wrong with nudity, or enjoying one's time in privacy in the nude. There is absolutely nothing shameful about the human body.
It is easy to practice safe sex. Why deny that?
Children should not be having sex. I think we can all agree on that one.
Children should not be made to feel ashamed for having sexual thoughts, expressing their sexuality, or engaging in safe sexual activities (such as mastubation and hand jobs). Why do adult insist on continuing to try to shame children?
Porn is great entertainment, a lot better than all the violence we see on TV and in the movies, and we already have laws that keep children out of porn, and there are laws to keep anyone from making money off of child porn.
We have the right to enjoy sex, we have rights that protect our privacy, so lets enjoy sex, and stop spreading shame for engaging in legal sexual activities.
There are no laws that prevent a child from masturbating in privacy, and that is a very good thing.
Handjobs in privacy are also 100% legal, and that is also very good.

fetboy: Excellent thoughts! I have a habit of looking at things from a historical standpoint. (lol) I think its perfectly possible to accept that kids under 18 will and do have sex (been doing it for thousands of years) without encouraging it or shaming them for it.

"I think its perfectly possible to accept that kids under 18 will and do have sex (been doing it for thousands of years) without encouraging it or shaming them for it."
Without question, and that is not opening up a can of worms.
We still love our children, even if they defy us and have sex before they are 18.
Thanks, Lady Miko
I'm home now.

The age of consent laws do not punish children.
The age of consent laws are there to protect children from pedophiles, which is a good thing because children should be protected from pedophiles.