lalucas

lalucas
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Salon.com
MAY 9, 2009 3:49PM

A Jab at Bill Maher

Rate: 16 Flag

Most Friday nights, I eagerly await the end of Dollhouse so that I can watch, "Real Time with Bill Maher" on HBO. Last night, his guests included James Carville, Matt Taibbi, Reza Aslan, Naomi Klein, and Seth MacFarlane. With this lineup, I sat up on the edge of my comfy recliner in anticipation of some very interesting dialogue.

In the beginning, I was not disappointed.  So many amusing liberal one liners and quips were launched quickly and deftly for public consumption :

2)  "I feel so sorry for the citizens of the Cayman Islands. What do they have...snorkeling and banking," Reza Aslan, "Snorkeling and tax evasion", Matt Taibbi.

3) Bill Maher:  "The capacity for the right wing to be petty, vengeful and make mischief is unsurpassed...We live in a country where the media is childish, and greedy, and does not take its responsibility as the fourth estate seriously." (Go, Bill.)

4)  “The Air Force Academy is a seminary these days,” Matt Taibbi.

The latter comment in response to statements that the Muslims must consider the United States to be waging a Christian Holy War due to the amounts of Bibles and Christian pamphlets being distributed by the military in Iraq. 

 Yes, the show offered some very satisfying comedic material and discussion in the first segment. Unfortunately, this eventually disintegrated into  some very embarrassing sexist commentary in conjunction with a somewhat disconnected promotion of atheism. 

Enter Seth MacFarlane, the creative comic genius behind "Family Guy". Shortly after his arrival, he questioned production's choice to discuss Elizabeth Edwards book during his time on the show. Putting aside MacFarlane's larger than life presence and accompanying ego, he was correct to assert that his commentary was wasted on what was clearly the wrong topic of discussion at that point in the show for that group of guests. However timely the release of her book was as a news event, who believed Maher's audience wanted to hear Seth MacFarlane's take on Elizabeth and John Edward's marriage?!

MacFarlane brings much to the world of comedy, but there was nothing in a discussion of Elizabeth Edwards to be linked with the storyline of any of MacFarlane's work.  MacFarlane did not waste an opportunity for a smackdown of what he likely perceived as a personal afront:

He jabbed at Maher,  questioning if his appearance was intended to be an episode of "The View" with Massengill as a sponsor. These remarks surely pierced the psyche of the uber-sexist Maher and his ever-present psuedo machismo (ouch).  In result,  Maher mostly ignored MacFarlane by shouldering him out of the conversation. His lone inclusion was to note MacFarland as a fellow atheist. 


via videosift.com

It was painful to watch one of the more interesting comic minds given the cold shoulder. The rest of the episode was awkward, poisoned with too much sexism (poor Naomi left to defend all of womankind) and the shameless promotion of Maher's no longer newly released movie, "Religulous". It was a less than satisfying event in the end...watch if you want to get the full impact of Naomi's valor defending women, and Reza's astute comment about Eliott Spitzer's spending on prostitution:

Maher stands to lose the viewership of liberal woman across the country, who like myself, must be growing tired of his never ending sexist responses in answer to all reasonable arguments made by other panelists. The entire panel appeared embarrassed and frazzled by the end of the show. What started out so wonderfully, burned out from too much overt negativity, sexism and immature reasoning by Mr. Maher.

Who produced last night's  program? The panel of guests was wonderful but they were all under utilized, and to some degree abused, due to the sequencing of the material chosen to be covered.  I know someone representing Bill Maher is here with us on OS, so hopefully, you will find the time to respond to the following: 

My household is hugely disappointed by Bill Maher's persona this season . The format of the show has all the potential in the world to be great, but Maher needs to rise above his increasingly petty viewpoints. There is a fine line between comedic one-liners and being painfully obnoxious. Bill Maher is in danger of becoming like the Republicans he so despises: Being perceived as an intolerant petty, vengeful "hater" making mischief each Friday night.  You are better and brighter than that, Bill Maher -- show us!

 

 

 

 

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television, seth macfarland, sexism, comedy, bill maher

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He's changed. Politically Correct was non partisan. Real Time is totally partisan.
Ted Zeppelin
May 09, 2009 04:08 PM
Actually, last week he did something that really frosted me, along similar lines. It was a great guest line-up but in the opening interview (I don't even remember now with whom) he didn't get an answer he wanted and he cut the guy off mid-sentence and said “ok, I can see I'm not going to get you to agree with me, so let's just move on” as if the whole point of a guest was to agree with his own agenda or to be squashed. The style was different than Hannity and O'Reilly, but the basic sense of control was the same, and I was saddened a great deal. I think Maher invites good guests and often has a good strong point to make himself. But he has some blind spots and his war against marriage is one of them. He probably wouldn't be happy married, but there are those of us who really genuinely are, and he would likely never understand; which is fine, I just don't want it as part of my politics shows, mostly just because there's real stuff to be discussed and it detracts. I wish someone (not the government, just a sensible friend) would forbid him from doing comedy, frankly, and just keep him nose-to-grindstone on serious issues.
Kent Pitman
May 09, 2009 04:11 PM
George Lucas pretty much described it with the "Dark Side''. When someone gains a certain level of fame they can make a choice, remain humble and remember they are no better than the fans make them out to be, or let ego take over and destroy their career. Eddie Murphy, I'm looking at you.
ocularnervosa
May 09, 2009 04:16 PM
I grew tired of Maher early on. I don't miss watching him. I guess I just have more important things to do...like spending time on OS...which has its own special irony.
bbd
May 09, 2009 04:16 PM
Kent, I think you are right -- his comedic sense is what is lacking these days. This is not the first time he has annoyed me lately, and I understand your thoughts on last week as well. He has been off his normal game these past few weeks -- I think because the "right wing" voice has been missing from his panel. Originally, I thought it was a good thing, but I don't think he can cope withoiut that voice. He is trying to fill that void and it is becoming obnoxious.

Jimgalt, I never thought the show was fair and balanced at any time, but he/it is changing and not for the better...
lalucas
May 09, 2009 04:19 PM
ocularnervosa, you are very correct. That is why I prefer Jon Stewart and why he is the king of late night comedy these days. He is so smart and spot on -- Maher, not so much...

Barry, I get it == more time on OS will cause less Mahering of my peace and quiet time? ;) Probably VERY correct!
lalucas
May 09, 2009 04:23 PM
ocularnervosa = I think you got it. There's another current post on OS about whether Oprah is a narcissist. With a discussion of 'healthy narcissism'. I think that's what show-biz people gotta have in order to get into their line of endeavor. However, too much success (or disappointment) makes the narcissism go over the line...

While I watch Maher, just for some religion and rightwing bashing, I'm getting a little weary of his smirk. And, of course, his weirdness about women... (I think male show-biz types hardly ever have any interactions with *real women*, just women playing models & the like.)
Myriad
May 09, 2009 04:42 PM
I used to love Maher until it dawned on me how few women he
has on his show. The final straw came when he was interviewing
(via video) Maria Bartoromo (I think MSNBC financial person)
and all he could do was hit on her, she finally got annoyed by the
end of the spot. I no longer bother.
DakiniDancer
May 09, 2009 04:46 PM
Myriad and Dakini: I think we all have a threshold for sexist men -- you reached yours before I did. I told my husband about the OS response and he agreed -- his comment was that Bill Maher gives male chauvinists a bad name...I think he is correct!
lalucas
May 09, 2009 05:31 PM
Honestly...I quit watching him. I'm over his sexism and ego driven comments. If I start the show I usually find myself clicking away within the first few minutes. But hey, isn't that what remotes are for?
gracielou
May 09, 2009 05:43 PM
What Barry said. And ocular... BM's on the Dark Side now, and rather aptly initialed.
Sally Swift
May 09, 2009 05:57 PM
GracieLou, Stellaa and Sally -- I am coming to the conclusion that you are all very correct. In the recent past, I sat through my Friday nights polishing off a bottle of wine. BM doesn't go down as easily without the alcohol, once again, given up to prove that I don't need it.

If applying discipline for the sake of my soul, why challenge myself to numb my brain with to sexist blathering? Not worth it...Sorry, Bill Maher, Jon Stewart is still the man!!
lalucas
May 09, 2009 06:05 PM
Let me just say that I think his show is unique on the air and some of his guest choices are great. There is no other place where people can speak their minds under the politically incorrect banner and get away with it. They could try under John Stewart but it's too short and not free-ranging enough, and Stephen Colbert for all I love his show is still to controlling probably because he's trying to tightly control the look of the show. So this show is, in my opinion, an essential watch and I maintain my HBO subscription mostly just for that (though my household might tell me other reasons if I tried to cancel it). Even so, though, Maher would do better understanding his weaknesses as weaknesses. People are much more easily tolerable when they're not doing well if they know they're not doing well.
Kent Pitman
May 09, 2009 06:07 PM
Thanks, Kent, I agree with this comment as well. I watch him mainly for his guests and pray each week that he will let them have their say.

That is why I was sooo disappointed in his treatment of Seth MacFarlane, who I wanted to get to know better. Well, at least prior to last night, I thought I wanted to get to know him. I was not impressed with his comments on atheism, but by that time he was walking a tightrope with Maher threatening to cut the rope at the next unfortunate comment...Not sure what he would be like otherwise as I have never seen him interviewed.

The rest of the group was "on" last night, and in the correct venue and with a few more well chosen questions, that show had all the potential to soar. I believe that is why I spent the time to write this post today after a long hiatus not posting. I was hugely disappointed at the negative turn mid-way through the show. Did you see it last night? Do you agree or am I over-reacting?
lalucas
May 09, 2009 07:43 PM
Gotta go with Stellaa and Barry---I think that is Bill Maher. Perhaps a bit too much time spent with Hef at the mansion
Chicago Guy
May 09, 2009 08:20 PM
I think he is totally inadequate as a moderator for a panel discussion. Not only does he insult the intelligence of his guests by putting out HIS view with an attitude but does not allow his guests to elaborate on their points of view and knowledge. His lack of scientific background about health and nutrition should be supported by advisers with better knowledge. His last show with a scientist was truly embarrassing. His presumption of having STARTED the atheistic movement in this world with his movie is sad. I think he should simply do stand up comedy, sticking to a monologue and the new rules section. I used to like him and it saddens me to see his growth so stunted and actually stop.
Traveller1
May 09, 2009 08:50 PM
I agree that sexist comments from Maher are hard to take. But so is this . . .

The latter comment in response to statements that the Muslims must consider the United States to be waging a Christian Holy War due to the amounts of Bibles and Christian pamphlets being distributed by the military in Iraq.

Why? How does this relate to their military obligations? Crusade like?

I have complete sympathy towards Edwards but don't think it is a subject everyone needs or wants to discuss.
Dorinda D.
May 09, 2009 09:28 PM
Hi Roger, don't know anything about Hef at the mansion, but if that it is the case, it explains a lot.
Traveller1, my husband has commented on how out of touch he is with so much. His comments are embarrassing on certain topics with which his working knowledge is so small that they should be off limits for discussion on the show. We cannot know everything, but there are plenty of subjects with which he is familiar. Otherwise, you are correct, his guest's talents are far beyond is capacity to moderate a discussion with them. In the end, that was the main issue that irritated me with regard to him last night.

Hi Dorinda -- there was an interesting interchange about the amount of Christian materials that are being dispersed in Iraq. I don't know if it is true, but if so, it is not a stretch to suggest that the Iraqi's may perceive that we are fighting a Holy War as well.

These comments probably looks more serious in print, but the point was taken that the military is filled with right-wing Christian extremists fighting to preserve a Christian America. In that sense, the Christian materials would serve as propaganda for the cause.

This was the first time I thought about the war in this context -- it probably deserves a better explanation than I am giving here as far as my understanding of the discussion. What a concept yet is likely something that IS really happening to this day.
lalucas
May 09, 2009 10:18 PM
I wonder if it is intrinsic in some of the things he's criticized for that he gets his strengths, though. This isn't excuse-making but a deeper philosophy that I've confronted in other forums. People want their heroes to be nice people or clean or various things... but often they aren't, and sometimes you take the good with the bad. Sometimes it's the very variability of a person that leads to what we like in them, and sometimes that's the price of having them in the world. It's easy to say that all people are equals, but honestly, I think we need to cut more slack for the ones who contribute and less for the ones who don't rather than saying we're all equal sometimes. Effort certainly to make sure people are able to participate equally, but still, once they're on the field... well, just a thought.
Kent Pitman
May 09, 2009 10:32 PM
Well, Kent, no one can say that Bill Maher is not an original. I suppose expecting too much from him could be an issue. Last night the first portion of the show was VERY put together -- he did a great job. I just don't know what happens to him.

Perhaps when he is under pressure he spouts his sexist remarks, which I find very irritating. I pulled the plug on both Chris Matthews and Keith Olbermann for their sexist behavior during the Democratic primaries. Not sure if I can ever look at either of them in the same way.

I give Maher the benefit of the doubt after weeks of this solely because he is a comedian. Apparently, he thinks these comments are funny, but they would be amusing only to a select few -- likely, white heterosexual men. Still, we tune in...!
lalucas
May 09, 2009 11:07 PM
Thank you for calling BM uber-sexist. I've thought that for years, and no, I don't look forward to him anymore. I watched some of Religulous and could have skipped the whole thing. It was bland and nothing I hadn't heard before. Comedians who laugh at their own jokes are always a turn-off.
latethink
May 09, 2009 11:12 PM
latethink -- with regard to Religulous: I bugged my husband to move it up in the NetFlix cue, pleaded and cajoled as I read someone's review and became really excited to see it. I felt terrible when after 30 minutes, I had to lay down on the couch and slept through most of it. I don't know why -- I wanted to watch all of it. I may have been drifting away from BM long before last night...
lalucas
May 09, 2009 11:43 PM
LA, "Real Time" used to be one of my DVR shows. I rarely missed watching it. But Maher's cynicism has has gotten too heavy for me and, IMHO, he has gotten just plain rude. I regained another hour of my week. :)
Julie Delio
May 10, 2009 09:25 AM
Lisa---Maher is a frequent visitor at Hef's place-- I've even heard him brag about it
Chicago Guy
May 10, 2009 09:42 AM
Julie, I try to watch all of them but I look to the guest list. The recent one with Fareed Zakaria, Richard Engel, and Barney Frank was really good and I think even had a decent opening sketch which is highly unusual. I haven't so much liked the episodes where he had only two guests, a recent change in format. The one with Gore Vidal and Ron Howard had interesting moments but I just don't like the format. I tend to like the ones with Salman Rushdie, Bernie Sanders, Barney Frank, etc. (There's an episode guide here. Though it's hard to notice you can pull down a pick list where it says "choose an episode" because they colored the pulldown in a way that makes it look like it's grey and won't pull... it does.) Very smart folks you don't get to see just think ... Oh, and Janeane Garofalo who comes very sharp and well-prepared and fakes everyone out because they expect her to be pulling a Bill Maher and going for the easy joke, but she just doesn't. Garofalo is just one example, but it's surprising how many thoughtful things come out of the mouths of comedians and rap singers that Bill puts on, and who have ability to do a kind of everyman confrontation with whatever politician or spin doctor is up there. Of course the very spontaneity of it is catch as catch can, and one must necessarily expect it to be unreliable in quality exactly because it is real engagement. There's nothing like it on TV. So yeah, I'd like it if Bill were different and the things people mention are real things that annoy me, but I guess I'm putting in a bit of support here too because I thought the conversation was drifting too far toward the “it's lost its spark, we'd be better off without it” end of the spectrum. I don't think it has lost it and I definitely don't think we'd be better off without it. I'd say it comes with some cost and we're still overall much, much stronger for having it...
Kent Pitman
May 10, 2009 09:51 AM
Yes, Julia, perhaps that can be a log-into-OS hour instead? My husband won't like it but -- oh well! Yes, rude, is the best word to describe his behavior. He interrupts everyone and even insults his guests. Not good...

Now that you mention it Roger, I think I have heard him say it, too. Just didn't mean too much to me, rirght along with his constant chatter about smoking pot which also annoys me...That is fine for him to do, but since it is illegal, MUST he say it each and every show?
lalucas
May 10, 2009 09:53 AM
Kent writes: "it's surprising how many thoughtful things come out of the mouths of comedians and rap singers that Bill puts on, and who have ability to do a kind of everyman confrontation with whatever politician or spin doctor is up there. "

Yes, that is why I have continued to watch in spite of his being annoying. Perhaps as you said in a previous comment, we need to take the good with the bad and accept him as-he-is...I think that will continue to happen. As I prompted in my post, if the OS version of Bill Maher comes upon this post and its comments, perhaps they can tweak the show a bit? Or not, due to its importnat component of spontaneity!
lalucas
May 10, 2009 09:58 AM
I used to listen to Maher's podcasts because at times, he had some good points, but like you said, he got boorish. He reminds me of a political Hugh Hefner.
Scruffus
May 10, 2009 06:44 PM
Bill Maher is not good-looking enough to get away with being such an asshat.
havlin
May 10, 2009 07:20 PM
C'mon, people. Bill Maher is one of US! He's Mr. OS! How can you say such sarky things about a guy who spends so much time responding to our comments about his show? It's unkind, to say the least, which, in Bill's case, when it comes to OS, is exactly what he does best.
Jeremiah Horrigan
May 10, 2009 08:03 PM
Oops, didn't mean to open a can of whoopass on BM...thanks, Scruffus and Helen for your thoughts -- Bill didn't come to defend himself, so I guess we will continue to see more of the same, Jeremiah? :)
lalucas
May 10, 2009 09:54 PM
I get what you're saying but compared to what's offered on my gazillion TV channels, Bill Maher is a breath of fresh air. I still will enjoy my Saturday morning viewings of his show.
Joan K
May 11, 2009 10:48 AM
Maher has always shown contempt for women in his career, and from what I've heard, real life as well. He is still funny at times, but it's hard to get beyond his childish rage at "uppity smart women" and his boundless ego.
emma peel
May 12, 2009 03:47 AM
i hate seth macfarlane because his cartoons are so unrepentantly misogynistic. all of them, unfailingly.

i don't watch bill maher either. your second link appears to have been removed, so i can't see how sexist he was. i believe it (and i was angrier about what he said about hillary clinton), but i can't believe that you think macfarlane is funny.
bstrangely
May 12, 2009 08:28 PM
Lisa, I agree. I was never a huge Maher fan but loved Religulous so tuned in to Real Time. Found more of the same old stuff I didn't like to begin with.
Sandra Stephens
May 13, 2009 01:06 PM
Joan K -- you and Kent are still fans. I still watch -- he just gets to me for the same reasons he irritates so many including

Sandra, emma peel and bstrangely. Even my husband notes the misogyny, sexism and sometimes racism coming from Bill Maher. I suppose I tune in for the rest of his commentary and take the good with the bad. He has been sooo off color toward women lately.

As far as Seth FacFarlane -- that is why I wanted to hear him speak. The Meg character on Family Guy is so perfect as the scapegoat child, and the commentary so misogynistic, that I wanted see if it is something he observes, or something so innate that he is serious about it. Either way, he makes a strong statement. In that it is commdy and supposed to poke fun to make us think, I am curious about Seth MacFarlane. As far as Bill Maher, it is not funny anymore because it seems to be coming from the heart. I guess there is a subtle difference there in my mind...
lalucas
May 13, 2009 05:37 PM
I agree. He lost this liberal female for good when he compared breastfeeding to masturbation. Sayonara Sam. I'm bored with you being bored with me and my petty stupid female issues. And I put up with a lot before that because I found him smart and funny.
JustJuli
May 13, 2009 09:12 PM
Well, Just Juli, I hope that whoever posts for him here on OS reports back...he is not well-loved by his liberal female audience...Perhaps I should send them a link to this post...someday...someday...
lalucas
May 13, 2009 09:24 PM
Maher is lacking as a moderator. He might be clever at times, but he's not as smart as he thinks he is.

The section where they discussed atheism was off-mark as polls show Americans are more prejudiced against atheists than most any other minority. It's not gaining ground in any fashion.

I'm not a fan of his inclusion of various entertainment celebs on the panels as too many of them are just too vapid.

I don't consider the show essential but I'll watch if I'm killing time since it often can be humorous. Still, it must be viewed with a large grain of salt in order to enjoy it.
Kevin Lee
May 13, 2009 09:33 PM
Thanks, Kevin, I agree with everything you have written. The portion of the show on atheism was tough to watch .
lalucas
May 15, 2009 08:09 AM
I have, in the past, been a loyalist to Maher. I forgave him his questionable material because his panel was interesting and he seemed to stay out of it for longer chunks of time. This season, from the first minute of the first show I said to my wife: "He's lost a writer in the writer's strike or "he is taking more of the show on his shoulders" or HBO must have had a talk with him. But as the season went on I realized that HE CHANGED. His open collar shirt was iconic. Now we have 1950's narrow ties (in which he looks kind of puny) and he's more obnoxious than not. To put it as simply as I can because I haven't given it much thought until today.

We don't look forward with the same enthusiasm to Friday night this season as we did last season, my wife is starting to fall asleep at the beginning of New Rules which used to be her favorite part of the show, his final piece on New Rules last season was worthy of being included in a tome on 21st Century philosophy. This year when he gets to the last paragraph I'm certain that couldn't have been his final monologue. To sum up, in complete agreement with virtually all of you, I think his show and he have both changed for the worse.

The easy way to tell what I think of a TV show is whether I put the TIVO on pause when I get up to go to the kitchen or bathroom. I never do any more. I always used to.

Curiously, I had the same experience with Carlin. Maybe its normal; sort of like a seven year itch. I'm grateful laLuca raised the subject and you all commented on it. I was afraid that as I turned seventy I was just getting crotchety. I probably am; but now I'm satisfied that my tolerance level for Bill Maher is not evidence of my crotchetiness (No, I don't know if that's a word, but the dictionary corrected it so I have decided to add it to my vocabulary).
Leigh R.
June 22, 2009 03:48 PM
Hi Leigh:
Glad you happened into this post. I have been considering a sequel because I believe Bill Maher is trying to reshape his TV persona. I have come to the conclusion that a portion of his difficulty is the format of the show. I agree with you that New Rules has become excruciatingly painful to watch. I wish that if they are having a great discussion (as they did last week) that New Rules could be "optional". Of course, that would never happen, but one can dream?

Bill won points in my book last week for not eviscerating poor Meghan McCain. She wasn't completely unfortunate in her occassional vapidity but she really needs to lose the "Valley Girl" vocabulary and inflection if she wants to be taken seriously. Joel Klein was hilarious to watch drooling over her...

Last week's episode had one of the most interesting discussions of the season. I am optimistic that he can regain his footing if he continues to make the effort. Please try, Bill? After all, Jon isn't avaialble to us Friday nights...
lalucas
June 23, 2009 09:03 AM
To put it like Jon Stewart might, Maher has become a douche. A self-righteous one at that--completely sure that he is completely right on almost every topic under discussion.

Just a small example: one year, he made fun of Texans who didn't want their 12 year-old girls to be forced to get the cervical cancer vaccine, lumping them all together with the religious nuts who were objecting to it for sexual, rather than medical-doubt or governmental-interference reasons. The next season, he was giving a hard time to anyone who went to a doctor, having convinced himself that all doctors are part of the insurance-medico conspiracy, or something.

He is dismissive of women, conservatives, Republicans, people who think medical care is a good idea, religious believers, and many other groups. He seems more interested in putting forth his various POVs rather than running a discussion. To be frank, I've given up on him.

Not that I have a strong opinion or anything.
Douglas Moran
July 01, 2009 12:02 AM
Hi Doug:
Very succinct and to the point! ;) He had a new format last week that my husband enjoyed. I only saw his interview with Cameron Diaz which was decent, then was too tired to watch the rest. I really have come to believe that the old format is too much for him to manage. He seems to be doing better one-on-one. We will see (or not) -- I think he has lost viewership and is trying something new to restore himself in our minds and hearts?!
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