No, Lee, tell us what you REALLY think...

Leeandra Nolting

Leeandra Nolting
Location
New Orleans, Louisiana, United States
Birthday
July 08
Title
Assistant Guru (not to be confused with Assistant to the Guru)
Bio
Proud native Hoosier who’s settled permanently in New Orleans. Teach English. Live in an old whorehouse with three very talkative and sexually-confused birds and one very talkative bird that isn’t sexually confused at all but just wants what s/he wants, which is pretty much everything and everybody. They appear quite frequently in my writing. Former bedpan wrangler, radio announcer, preschool teacher, and freshman comp. instructor. Once accidentally picked out A Clockwork Orange for a make-out movie. Have a very rational appreciation for the works of Flannery O’Connor and the television show The X-Files and an irrational fear of Meg Ryan. All my friends are drunks.

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Salon.com
SEPTEMBER 28, 2010 9:45PM

Would You Like Some Common Sense with That?

Rate: 17 Flag

Nobody will hire a teenager to do anything that isn’t disgusting.—Christina Applegate’s character Sue Ellen in 1991’s Don’t Tell Mom the Babysitter’s Dead.

I’m not an economist, but I’m not stupid either.  And today, I’d like to talk about an argument I’ve heard far too many times that makes my head explode in its sheer stupidity. 

The argument in question:  That while the minimum wage is too low to live on, we don’t need to raise it because shitty, low-paid jobs aren’t meant for people to live on, they’re meant for high schoolers to work part-time to learn to appreciate the value of hard labor and earn a little pocket money. 

Look, I’ve got nothing against teenagers earning an honest buck hosing down the grease traps and messing up my order at Burger King.  I did my time in the world of shit work.  My first job was at age 15 in the Dreyerhaus Nursing Home in Batesville, Indiana, where I mopped out bedpans and supervised old people while they smoked so that they didn’t set themselves on fire.  At the time, the going rate for this was $4 and change an hour…before taxes.  It motivated me to never ever ever work in the healthcare field again.  (The same job motivated my cousin Marysue to become an R.N., so your mileage may vary.)  But let’s crunch some numbers here, shall we?

Now, all of the official tallies aren’t up yet from the 2010 Census, but in 2009, there were 11,051,289 males and 10,486,548 females1 in the 15-19 age cohort, for a total potential labor pool of 21,537,837 burger flippers, floor moppers, shelf stockers, diaper changers, dish washers, and cashiers.

But wait!  Let’s not forget that by federal law, persons under 18 are restricted in the hours and types of work they can perform.  Not only that, but we were arguing that these jobs were supposed to be held PART-TIME.  So let’s estimate that each and every one of these kids—each and every one, from the child of the single mother in the projects to Warren Buffet’s grandchildren—works 20 hours a week instead of the full-time 40.  After all, they have studying and sports and Sunday school and sock hops to attend to as well!  Johnny and Susie aren’t supposed to be living off their earnings here, just building character and getting experience in the real world while earning their pocket money to spend at the malt shop.

That leaves us with the equivalent of 10,768,919 full-time low-level service industry workers, a good portion of whom are prohibited by law from working the night shift or operating a forklift. 

You know how many people there were living in the good ol’ U.S. of A. last year?  307,006,5502.

Yes, our current way of life can totally survive with only 3.5% of the population doing the kinds of work that are so disgusting and low-paid that only a teenager should be expected to do them.

1.   http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/DTTable?_bm=y&-ds_name=PEP_2009_EST&-CONTEXT=dt&-mt_name=PEP_2009_EST_G2009_T006_2009&-redoLog=false&-_caller=geoselect&-geo_id=01000US&-format=&-_lang=en

2.   http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SAFFPopulation?_submenuId=population_0&_sse=on

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Is common sense a required course for a degree in economics? Thank you for the informative post.
Wow . . . a spammer that has answers (hopefully to be zapped soon).

Therefore I call FIRST!

I can only say that I wholeheartedly agree . . . and that if I go on with my agreement, there will be a large amount of cussing, and another exploding head . . .
Firstly, have you considered a future as a statistician? Might get you off Rue Royale'!

Of course minimum wage is a joke. Unfortunate it is that our friends of business that make the laws and are partial to importing wage friendly workers don't see this. OK, they do.. some of them, but they are in the continuous grasp of the corprocrats. THEY like it this way, and who's to argue but us? Most could care less Lee.
Well presented, but also only a portion of the situation. Other aspects include:

1) Supplemental second incomes. These get called, at times, "mom's hours" as in part time work to supplement a primary income. Not ideal, but not the primary income, either.

2) Retirement or semi-retirement. I am sure some Wal*Mart greeters are there because they need the money. Others are there for the interaction and to have something to do.

This is not to say minimum wage is a shit wage. It is. It's the minimum for work essentially requiring no skills or training going in.

I also know better than to use absolutes. I am sure there's families living on two minimum wage incomes. I am equally as sure a lot get filled with folks picking up supplemental incomes, be it teens, the second income in a two earner family or retirees looking to augment retirement and/or be able to get out and have something to do.

The broader issue happens to be skills training. I cannot recall the exact details, sadly, but it came, I think from Bill Clinton pushing his public/private partnership initiatives on MSNBC. A lot of jobs posted remain unfilled because the hiring pool lacks the skills training. Employers have a double edged sword there. For a lower paying job do you invest in the skills training with the high turnover associated thereto? Training costs for a lot of slots, plus the time to interview and hire, etc, can equal 4 to 6 months in lost productivity. UI insurance covers folks while looking. A business tax credit utilized properly has people taking the risk to hire and train people for slots such as that. Minimize the risk associated with bringing on the unskilled. Programs exist. They likely ought to be tweaked in this down economy.
Well presented, but also only a portion of the situation. Other aspects include:

1) Supplemental second incomes. These get called, at times, "mom's hours" as in part time work to supplement a primary income. Not ideal, but not the primary income, either.

2) Retirement or semi-retirement. I am sure some Wal*Mart greeters are there because they need the money. Others are there for the interaction and to have something to do.

This is not to say minimum wage is a shit wage. It is. It's the minimum for work essentially requiring no skills or training going in.

I also know better than to use absolutes. I am sure there's families living on two minimum wage incomes. I am equally as sure a lot get filled with folks picking up supplemental incomes, be it teens, the second income in a two earner family or retirees looking to augment retirement and/or be able to get out and have something to do.

The broader issue happens to be skills training. I cannot recall the exact details, sadly, but it came, I think from Bill Clinton pushing his public/private partnership initiatives on MSNBC. A lot of jobs posted remain unfilled because the hiring pool lacks the skills training. Employers have a double edged sword there. For a lower paying job do you invest in the skills training with the high turnover associated thereto? Training costs for a lot of slots, plus the time to interview and hire, etc, can equal 4 to 6 months in lost productivity. UI insurance covers folks while looking. A business tax credit utilized properly has people taking the risk to hire and train people for slots such as that. Minimize the risk associated with bringing on the unskilled. Programs exist. They likely ought to be tweaked in this down economy.
Gwool--The problem is that there are very, very few DINK (double income, no kids) couples who are working at two minimum wage jobs. Once you have a child (or worse, children), the wages from that second minimum wage job are almost if not entirely eaten up in daycare costs.

When the kids are older and can look after themselves, then maybe Mom taking a minimum wage job could add a little to the family coffers, but until then, the economic benefits are pretty negligible. Most of the mothers who do work for minimum wage do it because they are the main if not sole support of their families.
Also, even with skills training, SOMEONE has to do the shit work. We can't exactly outsource service industry jobs to India.
Gwool seems to be somewhat insensitive Lee.
Please don't forget the businesses that hire young adults and then 10-99 them as independent contractors, thereby reducing their wages considerably, and they don't know until they have to pay taxes. Happens all the time!

Also, when I volunteered with low-income mothers as a mentor, I encountered many who weren't capable -- ever -- of getting a job that paid more than minimum wage. They couldn't possibly support themselves and their child or children on what they could earn, even if they worked more than full time. What's to be done at that point? There will always be a segment of the population who are "left behind."
Batesville? Oh, hell, that explains it. I thought you were talking about Yoder.
Here's a few more facts that get left out of the bullshit minimum wage argument:

Fact: The minimum wage, adjusted for inflation, has eroded to its lowest since 1955.

Fact: Hiring of illegal immigrants put the defacto minimum wage below the de jure minimum wage.

Fact: The minimum wage establishes the floor from which wages for all other hourly workers are derived.

Fact: The minimum wage wasn't raised for ten years (1997-2007) under Repugnicans , and despite an 80% increase in worker productivity, income flat-lined for all but the rapacious bastards at the top

Fact: While wages flatlined, prices did not, forcing workers to borrow on their home equity to meet their obligations .

These facts expose the dirty little secret at the dark heart of the Great Recession -- that the stagnant minimum wage was a significant contributing factor in causing the Great Recession
the answer is simple. Ontario has a student minimum wage (for students under 18 only) and a somewhat higher regular minimum wage. It pays to live in a "socialist" country. It is possible to subsist modestly on regular minimum wage (which works out to be between $17,ooo and $20,000 per year, depending how you define full time). Still, most minimum wage jobs are part time because the employers fear unions,. weird logic.
And with the continuing erosion of the middle class, there are more people available to do the shit work--and less of it.

Seriously: I have a friend who runs a free clinic in Indianapolis. She told me the other day that she's seeing an influx of formerly middle-class people who've worked all their lives in good jobs and are now weeks away from homelessness. I have work, and I know I am fortunate. But anyone who says the economy is turning around isn't living in my town--and Indianapolis has weathered the storm comparatively well.
Brian--Now that I think you could make a good case for--since by their very definition, unemancipated minors do not support themselves and someone (be it parents, guardians, or the state) is legally on the hook for their care and feeding, it could be fair to have one minimum wage for kids and one for adults.
Loved this! You are my new best friend.
Firstborn in living in new Zealand at the moment and while she laments the high price of a lamb chop, she understands that the taxes she pays on the meal go to subsidizing the wages of the waitstaff that cooked it, and served it to her... no tipping allowed. It's an offset that takes it from 'voluntary' (tip) to 'involuntary' (wages). It's fair, and it's expensive, but look at the benefit to the inhabitant workers...it's worth it.
*that would be "is living"
An interesting post. Thanks for sharing. Too bad the first comment was a spam, but I still appreciated the post.
Excellent analysis. We know who is doing the work and earning this wage and there is no way they are surviving from the money they earn.