MARCH 10, 2012 2:36PM

'Heil Obama!'

Rate: 29 Flag

Fascism comes
on little Obama-cat feet.

It sits looking
from sea to shining sea
on liberty-murdering haunches.
It won’t move on.

The sham of Obama as the "lesser evil" is over.

Glen Ford in “Eric Holder Tortures the Constitution” in Black Agenda Report writes:

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder this week attempted to explain how the U.S. Constitution allows the American president to be a law unto himself – to be judge, jury and executioner. Those are the powers that President Obama claims are inherent in his office: the right to kill at will, based on evidence only he is fit to examine and assess. This is a system of law without courts, without evidence that either the public or the condemned person has a right to see, or to contest. One man, with the power of life and death over any inhabitant of the planet, including citizens of the United States.

They used to call such people kings. But even the English kings of old – at least since the signing of the Magna Carta 800 years ago – were compelled to recognize the principle that free men could only be punished based on the law of the land. The United States Constitution is rooted in the principle of due process of law, with the courts as final arbiters of whether the law has been served.

With the passage of preventive detention without trail or charge, and President Obama’s claim to have sole power to target any human being for death, the rule of law has been eviscerated, abolished by presidential decree and congressional acquiescence. A pillar of civilization has been toppled, but most people in the United States appear not to have noticed.

snip

The Attorney General ultimately justifies the trashing of the Constitution on national security grounds. We have reached our national “hour of danger,” he says.

Holder is right about that. The danger is upon us, and it emanates from the White House. There’s a name for the danger: it's called fascism, which happens when militarists and the worst capitalists get together and abolish due process and the rule of law – which the First Black President of the United States has already done.

Washington Blog quoting Columbia law school professor Scott Horton:

A lot of this seems to have been put in place under the tutelage of Dick Cheney. So here we see one of Dick Cheney’s ideas being ratified by Barack Obama and his Attorney General Eric Holder.

Constitutional expert Jonathan Turley:

... Democrats are largely silent in the face of a president claiming the right to unilaterally kill citizens.

Again Jonathan Turley in his “Obama’s Kill Doctrine”:

Where due process once resided, Holder offered only an assurance that the president would kill citizens with care.

snip

Holder’s new definition of “due process” was perfectly Orwellian. ... Three citizens have been given their due during the Obama administration and vaporized by presidential order. Frankly, few of us mourn their passing, However, due process appears to have been vaporized in the same moment -- something many U.S. citizens may come to miss.

What Holder is describing is a model of an imperial presidency that would have made Richard Nixon blush. If the president can kill a citizen, there are a host of other powers that fall short of killing that the president might claim, including indefinite detention of citizens -- another recent controversy. Thus, by asserting the right to kill citizens without charge or judicial review, Holder has effectively made all of the constitution’s individual protections of accused persons a matter of presidential discretion.

snip

However, that entire system [court] can be circumvented at the whim or will of the president. The president then becomes effectively the lawgiver or lifetaker for all citizens. The rest becomes a mere pretense of the rule of law.

Former constitutional trial lawyer and salon commentator Glenn Greenwald:

... whether someone is actually a Terrorist can be determined only when the evidence of their guilt is presented and they have an opportunity to respond, just as Holder and Obama said during the Bush years. Government assurances that they’re only targeting Terrorists -- whether those assurances issue from Bush or Obama -- should reassure nobody: this is always what those who abuse power claim, and it’s precisely why we don’t trust government officials to punish people based on unproven accusations.

snip

“This is an indicator of our times,” Holder said, “not a departure from our laws and our values”

....is a monumental pile of crap that should embarrass every Democrat who ever said an unkind word about John Yoo. This policy is a vast departure from our laws and an interplanetary probe away from our values.

snip

Democratic officials justifying it, means that it’s much easier to normalize: very few of the Party’s followers, especially in an election year, are willing to make much of a fuss about it at all.

snip

And thus will presidential assassination powers be entrenched as bipartisan consensus for at least a generation. That will undoubtedly be one of the most significant aspects of the Obama legacy. Let no Democrat who is now supportive or even silent be heard to object when the next Republican President exerts this power in ways that they dislike.

snip

...the government is not free to simply go around murdering fugitives who have been convicted of nothing.

Margaret Kimberley in "Liberal Whores":

At the same time that these angry and outraged citizens were claiming victory against a radio personality they ought to be ignoring, the attorney general of the United States publicly claimed that the president of the United States has the right to kill at will whenever he feels like it.

Eric Holder traveled to an august educational institution, Northwestern University, and told a group of law students that they should get any crazy ideas about civil liberties out of their little heads. Holder asserts that the president can in fact decide to kill anyone he wants, as long as he claims that person is a terrorist. He doesn’t have to bother with indictments, charges, court rooms and other such old fashioned notions. Anwar al-Awlaki and his teenage son were both American citizens and were both killed by their president because he and a secret panel said they should die.

Obama hasn’t just jumped the shark of lesser evilism. He is the shark -- of fascism!

 

 [cross-posted at correntewire and sacramento for democracy] 

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This crackpot unitary executive theory (developed by Federalist Society judges), is now being celebrated by "liberal Democrats"! :(
The public silence is deafening.
I had so much hope that a constitutional scholar would be the kind of man who would have its limits in mind at all times.
rated with love
No wonder the silence is deafening. Why say something that will get you locked up?
OK. So what can be done?
Only things I can think of doing right now is that every time an Obama positive is mentioned, it should be countered by pointing out all of this. And avoid the distraction of simply dumping on Republicans.
It's all wrong as wrong as it can be... I find myself agreeing with every comment posted here, but... there's not but. It's wrong and all that can be done is for this travesty recent interpretations of constitutional law will somehow be reversed in federal court.
Both the Republicans and the Democrats can be voted out of office. And the fear of that can cause change as well. There are so many defeatist progressives/liberals out there it's unbelievable. Whenever a Democrat says they have to vote for Obama or the Republicans will win, Obama takes away another of your rights.
Obama now has the right to kill you at the wiggle of his forefinger. What else can he take away? As the song says, freedom is another word for nothing left to lose.
When Ronald Reagan pointed out that government is not the solution, it is the problem, what he failed to mention is that government is no longer in Washington, it is in Wall Street.
You lefties are so ridiculous. A few hundred people are outraged by Obama's assassination doctrine. Step outside your hovels morons...there are millions of citizens who are oblivious to all this. Shopping is more important...how you gonna change that you lefties?...wink
Jejune Podiatrist

Sneering can give one a sense of superiority until they smash in your door.
Libby, I love ya' and couldn't agree more. I did a post myself on this and it is an outrage that they are trying to do in the dark and when you turn on the lights, you see the roaches scurrying away. But, I disagree with the title here. Come on. "Heil Obama" is just a tad strong, don't ya' think? (I know the answer))
"Smash in my door" Jan Sand? That is absurd, extremist hyperbole. You are a moron. Even the working class guy on here, Herr Check Out Scanner, has more sense than that. And that's my point. The scores of millions of working class Americans, native born, or recent immigrants, have way too much sense to fall for scare mongering like this. Smash in your door. What an idiot! Go to a shopping mall and get a life Sandman...wink
One more thing. I screwed up my life, so I have nothing to do on a Saturday night except drink malt liquor, watch TV, and go online. But I have to inform you lefties about the real world. Get out to where there are thousands of people congregating...a sports game, a concert, theater shows, restaurants, Disney World, Las Vegas, whatever. Nobody there is talking about this, and you know I'm right. Now, who do you think counts more in the political process...a few wingnut lefties, or millions of ordinary people. I'm falling out ofmy wheelchair laughing...wink
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

Those of us standing up for and fighting for the right side of history have been ignored and laughed at and fought. But the fighting is gonna escalate, but so will our numbers and our strength!

Besides that Sandburg Fog poem I was also thinking earlier today about Frost's "The Road Less Traveled". What passes for the entire progressive community contains the continuum of those of us who think Obama should be impeached to those who think he must at all costs be re-elected. We gotta choose our road and ACTIVELY CALL OUT those who have chosen the road to more and more evil.

As far as I am concerned the "cognitive dissonance" of Obama's actions vs. his generalized rhetoric and renewed election 2012 games of Lucy and the football, dropping non-committal but seductive references to the issues of OWS, is no longer a haunting and continuous buzz, IT IS A SIREN GOING OFF FULL FORCE. The lesser evil default advantage must end for Obama.

We need to stop enabling the deniers and minimizers out of cronyism loyalty or for the sake of short-term personal and social comfort. Life begins at the end of our comfort zones, and I know I want to ramp up my commitment, my sense of responsibility a/k/a the ability to respond.

Edmund Burke's -- "when good people do nothing." Either we are living in the solution or we are contributing to the DEAD WEIGHT of the problem. The Republicans are not the only enemy to our welfare and our country and the future of our collective children and their children. The denying and minimizing or just plain lazy Democrats and the indifferent independents are the major enemy to justice and humanity in this country as well.

Ted Rall asked, "What is the major difference between the Bush regime and the Obama regime?" His sobering answer: OPPOSITION!!! Obama better than Bush? Anyone could have cleared that bar without moving. But Bush had his Yoo among others, Obama has his Holder and many other sell outs. Who btw in Washington is not pimped out to the corporatists?

Bush was willing to defy the constitution and illegitimately spy on citizens. Obama is willing to defy the constitution and illegitimately KILL citizens and now assert arrogantly IT IS LEGITIMATE. And whatever else will be cravenly opportunistic that people will ASSUME he would never dare to do and look the other way inevitably when he does UNLESS HE IS STOPPED. They can and must stop whatever bizarre Stockholm Syndrome or learned helpless or media-induced enthrallment or TEAM-DEM we hate whoever isn't us group think they are stuck in. They must snap out of it for our survival as a country!!!!

We must be grounded in the truth and our own honor and our own conscience. And we are resourceful. And we are stronger than we think and the continuing challenge won't be easy but it will expand our spirits.

And our adversaries with their tremendous coffers of money. With their genius to divide up and try to conquer the 99%. By distracting us with joblessness and homelessness and hunger and few opportunities for educational advancement (rather formidable distractions). They have Madison Avenue on their side, they have Wall Street, they have K Street, the have movies and tv propaganda, they have the MILITARY INDUSTRIAL SECURITY COMPLEX, that monster matrix the tentacles of which are going to grow and grab at more and more of us, which is why we need to rally seriously and quickly.

And we have BIG MEDIA against us. I consider the MSNBCsters more dangerous than Fox now. Madison Ave. slickness, and cherry-picking cosmetic positives of the Dem Partiers without taking seriously THE BIG PICTURE, the forest. The evil injustices that are going down now and will escalate beyond even our wildest fears! The media celebs are pimped out too to their paycheck paying corporate bosses. 99%ers or their economic security? Also, they are seduced by access and cronyism with the 1%ers or some are out and out 1%ers themselves!

There are a lot of "heil obama" links when I googled. I thought I may be the first. I wonder the ratio of liberals to conservatives who posted them about the Obama administration. Some are based on racism and xenophobia. Some are based on sanity and intelligence and JUSTIFIED OUTRAGE.

The media won't acknowledge the people of conscience. The rational people who get how profound the cavalier abandonment of due process is. Bush did it in the shadows. Obama is doing it even more sociopathically in the light of day, with a BIG FAT CRAVEN MEDIA obliging him by not bringing it up or supporting it. The same media that skates over that we are, say, allying ourselves with Al Qaeda fighters in Libya and Syria. No biggie when the ends justifies the means and the ends are profits for the 1 percent or seriously .1 or .01%.

The politicians are doing all they can to make it harder for us to exercise our free speech and assembly. They will be coming after our internet accessibility more and more to slow the growing momentum and communication. They will be exercising more and more abuse of the police and military as some have been on the dirty and callous end of already. They will ramp up the environment of McCarthyism and try to demonize people of conscience more and more. Lying is SOP.

I am open to hear whatever people have in response to Jan's question. It is THE question for sure. What to do? I know just recognizing the HUGE PROBLEM, the REALITY, is the first step. The acknowledgement as to how our government is unmanageable and the enemy of its citizens.

Seeger advised us to "think globally", "act locally." I know courage is contagious and I want to be in the community of the courageous.

I am going back to a Greens meeting next week. I am going to try to see Jill Stein at a function the following Saturday. I want to support her. Greens say it is no longer an alternative party it is an imperative party. We certainly need to start reaching for IMPERATIVES. The clock is ticking and soft fascism has hardened alarmingly in America! Also, looking into more proactive groups. World Can't Wait has been fighting the good fight for a long time.

Both legacy parties have jumped the shark to EVIL. And I don't say that hyperbolically. It is the bitter reality.

Feingold is gone. Kucinich is being pushed out. They still have voices though. We need to rally and support each other and support those speaking truth to both power (but as Laurence Davidson says, power knows the truth but they have chosen to defy it and bury it for their amoral ends) and to each other. Most importantly to communicate with each other and rally. To each other is where the truth has got to be repeated and stressed and stressed again. And messengers of harsh reality are rarely thanked, but we have to keep on saying it nonetheless. Who wants to believe the guardians of our democracy are really OUR ENEMIES but that is the truth and it must be said and said and said.

The Obama administration is perpetrating global "holocausts" from its clipboard of target countries in the bullshit name of humanitarianism when it is really about profiteering. Global economic raping and murder. I think they even probably now have China and Russia on their short-term list, addiction to evil goes to such demonic grandiosity.

Obama is doing all he can to get the white collars and military brassed collars as far away from accountability and responsibility as possible. 12% is it of American children go to bed hungry each night, and those monsters like at Goldman and AIG and so many others are raking in BILLIONS AND BILLIONS STILL and the future is so economically bright for them and horrifying for all who are not them. Do they care they are also ruining the planet for their descendants? Apparently, not so much.

80 million Iranians and I don't know how many Syrians are wondering how they will gird themselves at what may happen to them soon in the name of humanitarianism. They have children, too. As the bully nations bully the UN ... bully EVERYONE to launch more and more bloodbaths as our earlier conquests are still struggling and dying with bloodbaths even re-occurring.

Colossal and oh so dangerous hubris. We can take it on. It is time. Remember the 60s' one word slogan. "enough"

"enough"

I feel strengthened just seeing people in our community here taking what Obama has been doing since day one and what Holder has asserted so Orwellian-ly recently so seriously!

thanks for your comments and the ones to come along with your blogs and comments continuing to ripple truth and ideas for pro-action. thank you for your wisdom, strength and courage!

best, libby
"9/11 scared us so everything and anything we do in response to our fears is justified" seems to be the underlying rationale. Like Romantic Poetess said, I too hoped a constituional scholar would undo some of the worst of the Bush legacy, not extend it. [r]
"the president would kill citizens with care." Isn't it wonderful how so many presidents kill people with care. Sad that there are so many ways to kill people, send them to war, take away their right to be charged and have a trial, even just letting them die needlessly. Dead is dead.

You're getting a lot of yawning because Dancing Bachelors With Survivor Housewives is on TV. Lets face it, many are too lazy to do anything more than be pissed off or speak hopefully. None of the impact of any of the evils is personal to enough people. Yet. I hate the this truth but I'll say what I see once again "not enough suffering yet." A little Experiential Learning goes a long way. When millions more start suffering they'll wake up.

Personal awareness will come when the pain is personal, not idly observed. I wonder if it will be too late.
I had an experience that makes me realize that everything you say is true, and the silence is deafening and awful. I witnessed that due process and civil liberties is a joke, and that judges, police, and lawyers don't feel constrained by any law. Sadly, beforehand I would have thought this was left wing nonsense talk. I was so wrong. You go, Libby.
Damn fine article, Libby. I have to disagree with my friend Scanner that your title is a bit strong. I think it's frighteningly appropriate. Read Eric Larson's In the Garden of Beasts for an eerily familiar description of the apathy and acquiescence of not only the German people, but the citizens of the world as Hitler incrementally destroyed the freedoms and security of his nation as his lust for absolute power grew exponentially and remained unchecked while the world looked the other way.
Absolute power does indeed corrupt absolutely. As a nation, we long ago entered this realm. Obama's staggeringly brazen declarations are simply the culmination of that absolute corruption.
Be afraid, America. Be very afraid.
The total passivity of a huge number of US citizens such as Jejune Podiatrist and even scanner who seems to feel that the total violation of the most basic guarantees of the Constitution is hardly worthwhile getting upset about indicates that there is no general awareness of how dangerous the situation has become. The OWS movement is, at least at the moment, in some sort of amorphous hiatus awaiting a time when weather conditions permit comfortable marching around with signs proclaiming how miserable people are and even this mild objection to the major shift of power and rights and the wealth produced by automatic processes to an exclusive few is quickly dispersed by police brutality with no solid legalities established defending public objection. There is no muscle anymore in basic democratic efforts and both political parties spend their time putting out fake dramas over futile struggles. The labor movement which had been the resource for decent government policies has either been co-opted by corporate power or simply vanished. Things look very bad.
In an aside I must notice that perhaps a huge percentage of the public probably considers the participation in a shopping mall as the intellectual ultimate in regards to "having a life" as per Jejune Podiatrist.

Perhaps this is the root of the problem.
Quick check in and appreciate the comments and hits. These excerpts below about Obama's latest sign-off and Congressional full-out support for curbing citizen collective action I thought coincided with the messages of the blog and most of the comments!

if you trust the Obama government will not err on the side of oppression as it scurries to tighten the reins and muzzle on us all, you are still profoundly naive about what is happening to no longer OUR America. It is time to fight for it back.

If not now, WHEN? The emperor has no clothes. It is clearer and clearer. What will we do about it? Collectively pretend like we don't know and it is not so? Or that if we do nothing things will eventually change for the better on their own? Seems like the battle between good and evil is demanding us all to take our sides.

best, libby

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article30774.htm

Reported by RT:

"Only days after clearing Congress, US President Barack Obama signed his name to H.R. 347 on Thursday, officially making it a federal offense to cause a disturbance at certain political events — essentially criminalizing protest in the States.

"RT broke the news last month that H.R. 347, the Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act of 2011, had overwhelmingly passed the US House of Representatives after only three lawmakers voted against it. On Thursday this week, President Obama inked his name to the legislation and authorized the government to start enforcing a law that has many Americans concerned over how the bill could bury the rights to assemble and protest as guaranteed in the US Constitution.

"Under H.R. 347, which has more commonly been labeled the Trespass Bill by Congress, knowingly entering a restricted area that is under the jurisdiction of Secret Service protection can garner an arrest. The law is actually only a slight change to earlier legislation that made it an offense to knowingly and willfully commit such a crime. Under the Trespass Bill’s latest language chance, however, someone could end up in law enforcement custody for entering an area that they don’t realize is Secret Service protected and “engages in disorderly or disruptive conduct” or “impede[s] or disrupt[s] the orderly conduct of Government business or official functions.”

"The Secret Service serves as the police that protects not just current and former American presidents, but are also dispatched to monitor special events of national significance, a category with a broad cast of qualifiers. In the past, sporting events, state funerals, inaugural addresses and NATO and G-8 Summits have been designated as such by the US Department of Homeland Security, the division that decides when and where the Secret Service are needed outside of their normal coverage.

"Mara Verheyden-Hilliard of the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund tells the International Business Times that the Trespass Bill in its current form “means it's easier to prosecute under 'knowingly,'” instead of both knowingly and willfully, “which is an issue because someone could knowingly enter a restricted but not necessarily realize they are committing a crime.” Speaking with IB Times, Verheyden-Hilliard tries to lay to rest claims that the Constitution will be crippled by the Trespass Bill, but acknowledges that it does indeed allow law enforcement to have added incentive to arrest protesters who could be causing a disturbance."

snip

"Under the act, protesting in areas covered by Secret Service could land a demonstrator behind bars, and the thing about the Secret Service (in case you couldn’t tell by their name), is that they don’t always make it clear where they are. You could even say that the service they provide, at times, is kept secret.

snip

"And before you forget, the president can now detain you for getting too close to his front yard, order your assassination if the country considers you a threat and lock you away for life with no charge if you’re alleged to be a terrorist. You, on the other hand, can’t yell obscenities at Newt Gingrich without risking arrest."
Great post. To many don't know and to many don't seem to care. This is a true horror.
Rated.
Sorry, but perhaps one more comment is in order. I am not a political tactical expert nor do I possess anything outstanding in social talent but the simple concept to me is to decide exactly who the enemy is and where he is vulnerable and to strike as hard as possible at his weak points.

The concentration on standard politics does not seem to be effective as both parties are bought and paid for, even though the Democrats have a somewhat saner crew. You can only vote for whomever is selected by the corrupt controllers and that, by the last election, is obviously not to any degree effective.

I see the enemy as big money, corporate and financial, and one must hit where they hurt. Money is the weak spot, not marching around with signs. How can one bite into the profits of the major players? That's where good and powerful suggestions are required.
Some people fear loss of political power. Some people fear loss of principle. We'll let history decide who is the wiser.

This much we do know: That that which we allow to be done today to "others" will one day be done to us. Karma's a bitch, baby. And when hell comes to visit you in your home and you protest too late, your cry for justice will receive the same deafening silence you gave to others.
Dear child, what you fail to understand is the difference between a good killing and a bad killing. Good killings make us safe! Where would our country be today without all those dead Koreans, Vietnamese, Iraqis and Afghans of the past sixty years?? Can you imagine the staggering loss of corporate profits?

I'm upholding the sanctity of American life by holding no sanctity for non-American lives. This is war! Kill or be killed! Thinking only hurts us a country. Ask any one of my supporters if I am not in fact spreading peace and stability around the world. Believing that makes it so!

But as you so pointedly noticed, I can take out any American at any time now too. We cannot allow threats to our country to exist! And if you want to know who is threat it's very simple: it's anyone who disagrees with the President's policies. Have I told you how much I hate the liberal left lately, mein kamp?
You are something else, Libby. You inform and at the same time instigate some of the best comments I have read. Excellent piece. R
Peter is so right about not letting Obama get a pass as criticisms are made against the Republicans. That game is getting old and it is dangerous. Us vs. them cronyism gets set up. This is the MSNBC political gamesmanship focus not on morality and reality and even real news but winning and lesser evilism.

Energy follows attention, and as the media deliberately disinforms or blacks out reality, energy does not go there that would and could from the citizens to be proactive not passive or reactive.

The hope in Obama's potential electrified how many millions of us, 80 (the same number that live in Iran). He had an opportunity and he instead opted to be the American Judas. Maybe "they" would have toppled him, the oligarchs in the shadows and their political and black ops puppets, but he would have stood for principle and morality and law and empathy.

MLK, RFK knew the right side of history and wanted to be there, lead from there. Nader knew what righteous individualism was and is, not cronyism that gets incrementally corrupting in both legacy parties. I don't think the citizenry gets not only Obama's crimes but the sell-out of 99% of our oath-taking government reps. They are so much in exceptionalism crony denial group think they probably don't get it either. And their media buds sure aren't gonna call em out. Except for a juicy sex scandal. Killing someone. Bankrupting them. Nope. Just sex.

Bleue I agree that tv's amoral "whatever ministry" is a plug in drug that distracts us and comforts us that we are okay and normal, and we will be told what we need to know by the media translators of our authoritarian leaders. And what amoral trash the "common folk" non-1% are portrayed as on the tube. When you stray from the status quo news beats, even away from NewsHour, to alternate ones and international ones your chances of getting reality are a lot greater.

Mearshimer has written a book about how leaders of countries lie. They lie to their own people more than they even lie to other countries. It starts out lying about international affairs, but quickly it turns to lying about everything and anything, and the "masses" are disdained and objectified without empathy.

fernsy, the legal system is already so fixed for the powerful and the wealthy -- wealthy white males. now it is being further twisted for their behalf as well as for the profound intimidation on the rest of us and punishment for trying to fight for justice. Obama has prosecuted more whistleblowers than any other president. WTF????

Donegal, 9/11 was so exploited for evil. we will claim we are fighting terrorists as we, the US, become global terrorists. What this has done to the fates of so many countries as well as our own troops is heart-sickening and deserves addressing by all of us. The bullshit of support for the troops by backing wars has got to finally be called out. it confuses and therefore causes citizens to "fuse" "with" the manipulative jingoist politicians. Watch John McCain play with this one to the max!

Unbreakable and Jan, yes, I do not think the provocative title is extreme. Thank you. Scanner, I appreciated your blog. Good for you! We must NOT minimize the gravity of what is happening, even though our national big media is. That sets off a group-think cronyism kool-aid swigging denial imho. Sadly and horrifyingly it does warrant a call out as fascism the trashing of the bill of rights. Due process has been with civilizations for over 800 years. Suddenly it is tossed????? Btw, Scanner, Hitler was beloved at the beginning, wasn't he? Beloved then feared (understatement). As the reins of control and oppression tightened. I don't know what Obama or his subsequent WH followers are capable of, but I want those checks and balances back. The founders put them in.

Our economy worked basically and our government did basically with some rollercoaster moments through the decades, but as of 30 years ago, the incremental capture of the government and economy occurred and it is still occurring. Deregulation for profiteers and cutting of the social safety net.

Harry, karma sure is a b*tch. Cooperation and partnership is the paradigm all of us as well as the globe desperately need right now. A rising tide will raise all ships. But as Hacker and Piersen declare in their new book on the crimes of the one percenters, politics has established a "winner take all" scenario. Amoral gamesmanship. anti-empathy culture. And we need to wake up and PUSH BACK. They claim if politics broke it, politics can fix it, if we fix the politics!

Clearly Prez O commenter, Obama hates the liberal left because he has had a fascist agenda that keeps on unfolding, much as the citizenry fights to believe that Oprah's darling is so not capable of such betrayal.

Jan, yes, I see your point about fighting effectively. How do we collectively hit those pressure points to push back against the psychopathic corporatist ruthlessness? Think on, my friend. We do need to do some brainstorming. I do think that protests do impact people with a ripple power. the media doesn't cover much, but at least like in NYC a large group of people willing to go out and protest sends a message and also helps inspire the participants. It breaks my heart that there have to be martyrs facing down such hardship like Bradley Manning or not as famous martyrs who are being roughed up and arrested.

I do wish the Greens could help organize some fight back strategies that will work on the corporate wallets somehow. I think of sky's ideas about coops among people keeping things fair and away from pyramid opportunism. I think boycotting products is powerful. I also wish people would get into boycotting media more and also pushing back at media bullshit moments. I watch Morning Joe for three seconds and I throw my shoe across the room as he declares wars on countries cavalierly and nominates his own candidates. Such ego but the power of the tv mike is incredible. And I watch shows like that and others invite on generals and government mouthpieces skewing reality on behalf of government hegemony and exploitation.

I wanted to post once again this famous speech from movie A Man For All Seasons. It seems to fit our topic:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060665/quotes

"William Roper: So, now you give the Devil the benefit of law!

Sir Thomas More: Yes! What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

William Roper: Yes, I'd cut down every law in England to do that!

Sir Thomas More: Oh? And when the last law was down, and the Devil turned 'round on you, where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country is planted thick with laws, from coast to coast, Man's laws, not God's! And if you cut them down, and you're just the man to do it, do you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake!
sorry didn't get a chance to address more of you, but it means a lot the comments here and keeping this issue front and center on open salon yesterday and today with hits, ratings and comments! thanks!! libby
To paraphrase: "Those who do not understand the lessons of history are doomed to repeat its errors."

Allow me to give you a metaphor. Consider the few who are at the top of the heap in our society - the elite - and run things to their own benefit, to be bathing in a river of power. They are soaked through and through with that power. Being wet there are things they cannot do; such as organize the system so that all the people benefit from being part of it.

We have, on shore, ourselves; those who are not soaked in the wetness of power. We wish to rid ourselves of those in the river and replace them with our guys who will be charged with making the system work on our behalf.

The method used to rid ourselves of that elite matters little so long as it is effective. So we do that. Then we select a few of our guys to wade into the river of power and take over the positions vacated by those we ousted.

Lo and behold, becoming wet with the waters of power, they too begin to act in their own interest instead of in ours. And we, not having understood the lessons of history, are shocked and surprised. How stupid of us.

I cannot find any example in history of anything else ever happening. Those who are born into, jump, stride, walk, creep or are pushed into that river of power ALWAYS do the exact same thing as their predecessors did - forget the people and act in their own interests.

How can we still go on advocating a change of those in the river as a means of bettering our own circumstances? Can we not see that this, in all our history, has NEVER worked?!!! Can we not see that we need to build a system that does not allow of an elite that is soaked in power? Can we not heed the adage that tells us, "Power corrupts"? It ALWAYS corrupts. Every time. No exceptions. Not one. Not in all our history.

Time to wake up and smell the flowers.
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One more adage for you to ponder....

"If you want a thing done right you have to do it yourself".

This, I think, also applies to governing.

.
The part I love is the laugh I get out of the people who claim this is now so bad, we can start using “Heil Obama” the way you did here, Libby—and the people who agree so strongly with your general theme.

Yeah, you folk are so brave and willing to put life and liberty on the line in this disgusting fascist state in which you are living.

Too bad there were not courageous people like you in the real Nazi Germany to mock Hitler publicly day after day; too bad there were not courageous people like you to mock Idi Amin publicly day after day when he was in power; too bad there were not courageous people like you to mock Joe Stalin publicly day after day when he was Premier—or Mao, or so many others.

Yeah, I’ll join the people applauding this effort…although I am doing so for its humor value.
I therefore take it, Frank, that you are perfectly happy that Obama has taken for himself the right to incarcerate and kill anyone that he alone, with no declared evidence, has decided is some kind of threat and you are perfectly happy that public protests such as OWS has made are now prosecutable inspite of the Constitutional declaration that this cannot be made illegal.
Jan wrote:

I therefore take it, Frank, that you are perfectly happy that Obama has taken for himself the right to incarcerate and kill anyone that he alone, with no declared evidence, has decided is some kind of threat and you are perfectly happy that public protests such as OWS has made are now prosecutable inspite of the Constitutional declaration that this cannot be made illegal.


I must not have made myself clear, Jan…so allow me to say “my bad” and to expand my comments in hopes of making them more understandable to you:

The part I love is the laugh I get out of the people who claim this is now so bad, we can start using “Heil Obama” the way you did here, Libby—and the people who agree so strongly with your general theme. (I really love the fact that some people actually suppose that we have become a fascist state…where everyone has to be very, very careful of what one says, because the powers that be will “incarcerate or kill” you for doing so. It seems unreasonable to me, but it is a free country…and if people want to suppose that, they certainly are free to suppose it.)

Yeah, you folk are so brave and willing to put life and liberty on the line in this disgusting fascist state in which you are living. (It is amazing to me that there are people who think that we have become that kind of state and yet are brave enough with their personal lives and liberty that they are willing to speak out as forcefully as they do…day after day, right here in public where the Gestapo (or whatever they think it is called here) can easily determine who they are and punish them so severely for doing so.)

Too bad there were not courageous people like you in the real Nazi Germany to mock Hitler publicly day after day; too bad there were not courageous people like you to mock Idi Amin publicly day after day when he was in power; too bad there were not courageous people like you to mock Joe Stalin publicly day after day when he was Premier—or Mao, or so many others. (I was trying to convey the idea that I think it is unfortunate that brave, courageous people like the good people here were not available to speak up during the days of Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Amin.)

Yeah, I’ll join the people applauding this effort…although I am doing so for its humor value. (I love humor…and since this kind of thing causes me to laugh so often, I find it worthy of applause.)

I did not say anything about being happy with what Obama has or has not done, Jan…just with the interpretations of what he has or has not done.

I hope this answers your question, but if not, and you feel inclined to couch another diatribe against Obama in the form of a question to me, please feel free to do so.

I’ll be glad to respond.
This is not a diatribe, Frank. It is merely an understanding that you do not seem to be aware of the nature of a totalitarian state or you believe that the leader of a state who can, at his unexplained whim, execute anyone, is somehow unconnected with totalitarianism. That there is still some freedom of expression may or may not be permitted in the near future, one never knows. Since Constitutional rights in the matter of life or death have been openly violated what guarantee is there that other rights will remain? Why are you so confident that freedom of vocal expression will remain? Your mind is a puzzle to me. No need to keep resubmitting the same material. I've already read that.
This is not a diatribe, Frank. It is merely an understanding that you do not seem to be aware of the nature of a totalitarian state or you believe that the leader of a state who can, at his unexplained whim, execute anyone, is somehow unconnected with totalitarianism. That there is still some freedom of expression may or may not be permitted in the near future, one never knows.

Okay, we agree on two things here, Jan. One…this particular post of yours is not a diatribe (the earlier one was!)…and two, that neither of us knows the future. On the other hand, it is presumptuous (and incorrect) for you to suggest that I do not have an “understanding” or “awareness” of the nature of a totalitarian state. For you…and others who seem to be suggesting America of today (March 11, 2012) IS A TOTALITARIAN STATE…I respectfully suggest you do not understand the nature of such an entity.

Since Constitutional rights in the matter of life or death have been openly violated what guarantee is there that other rights will remain?

For the purposes of responding to this question, am I to assume you (or anyone else in this thread) is the final arbiter of what is a “violation” of Constitutional rights…or may I stick with the Supreme Court? You see the problem for me here, Jan: If I stick with the Supreme Court, the question dissolves into nothingness. If I am required to use you or the other people…I am boxed in. But then the question arises: WHY on Earth should I use you or the others here rather than the Supreme Court, since to do so would itself be a violation of the thrust of the Constitution?

Why are you so confident that freedom of vocal expression will remain?

What have I said that could possibly lead you to suggest that I am confident that freedom of vocal expression will remain?

I think the people giving support to the conservative movement in our country are “steadying the hand of people trying to cut our throats” in that regard—and I think the far left has gone totally apeshit and are, in effect, helping the right as blindly to destroy our freedoms as the right is blindly helping the elite to destroy our freedoms. That has been the thrust of most of my comments to Libby.

Your mind is a puzzle to me.

Well, I think you have simply decided to consider me wrongheaded on most things I say, Jan…and this supposed puzzlement is more a function of your stone headedness about me (and my comments) than about my mind and me. That kind of thing happens in these forums at times. It’s something we simply have to live with.


No need to keep resubmitting the same material. I've already read that.

That’s sort of any example of what I was talking about in the response above.
Jan, so glad you were here to be so articulate with Frank. The best metaphor I can think of to describe his reaction is someone who when his house catches on fire simply turns on the air conditioning. It buys some denial comfort time. Locked into the denial stage of Obama post-election grief. Never an answer to anyone of the specific situations happening, no willingness to address that. Only to aim his fury and protectiveness of "authority" at the messengers who are warning about the growth of illegitimate patriarchical authority and also they are disclosing what anti-humane and illegal actions the patriarchy has already taken and sometimes what has been done to others,which he will rationalize is the victims' fault. Blaming the victims and/or messengers is a game not only abusers, but their enabling deniers and minimizers constantly play. Frank plays it doggedly.

So let's see, we must be wrong about Obama if we can criticize still Obama on a website such as this. He seems disappointed we all aren't shipped off to detention centers as of yet and we should be grateful for that. I am grateful for that but I live with anxiety that freedom as we know it is being incrementally and not with slowness any more removed. Not quickly enough for Frank as proof.

The Franks with their profound degrees of denial, and there are a lot of them out there still, so much contribute to the DEADWEIGHT of the problem. Bobblehead nodding to the government's and media's colossal Orwellian lying. I think of that haunting poem about those who watch the different groups being taken away group by group and the member of the last group not squawking a bit about it until the time comes when they come for him and no one is left to help. Too late. This poem haunts a lot of us.

The bubble people. The bill of rights don't seem to matter to the bubble people. Mass murder by our government on foreign innocents does not seem to matter. Horrifying numbers of troops and vets committing suicide or homicide or domestic violence doesn't seem to matter to the bubble people. Hunger in America, homelessness in America, prison abuse in America, women losing their reproductive rights in America, joblessness in America, destruction of the environment doesn't seem to seriously impact the bubble people. And if any of these begin to, well, they just lay it on the doorstep of those mean old crazy Republicans ALONE. Nothing is Obama's fault, they made him do it. Nor the Dems trying so hard but what ya gonna do, THEY made them do it. This has been working, this great American snow job on citizens for a long time and apparently Frank wants to stay in the snow, throwing snowballs at the messengers doggedly because he can't face reality and our ominous future. libby
The idea of importing Nazi parlance to make your point(s) today (as everyday) abt how much you cannot stand the president is a new low. Hate the guy all you like (he'll win in any case) but spitting on the graves of 2,000,000 murdered Jewish children to do it? That's not only low but it shows you've given up any attempt to write original titles.
Only to aim his fury…

Me…aiming fury??? In a post filled with the kind of venom you regularly churn out?

Allow any independent individual to read our comments, Libby…and let them judge what is the product of “fury” and what is not.

The fact that you would actually use that small phrase tells everything that has to be told about the reliability of the other thoughts you shared here.

You are consumed by your fury, your bitterness, your anger…and it has gotten unrealistic. Try to contain it. It really is not attractive…and it does nothing to further whatever it is you are trying to further here.
Totalitarianism and fascism inserting themselves in our government at Obama's hands are quite serious, Jonathan. GRAVELY SERIOUS.

Guilting me for the deaths of 2 million Jewish children I consider YOUR "low" not mine. More malicious than genuinely righteous.

Curious you waited to add that little postscript when there was less traffic on this blog.
I need to consider how to comment on this.There is so much brilliance and perception here that it is blinding, but there is also so much anger and fear that it is difficult to approach. When you can’t put something into words, it needs to be put into analogies and metaphors. – an act of EDucation ( Latin “Drawing Out) in understanding by experience and story, rather than by indoctrination. I’m moving my identity for reasons I’ve explained and I could (and would and should) rate this post twice. But that would make me “unsportsmanlike conduct” and “Dishonorable” in my own mind—so I will rate you only once, but very, very highly

I am getting together a Chautauqua,

http://open.salon.com/blog/token/2012/03/04/the_art_of_reason_a_pro_spectus

which is going to explore the art of Reason and and how to effectively reason with people who make themselves your adversaries, who MIGHT just want the same thing you do, but don’t understand it yet. ( That is probably most of our “enemies” if we could just all quit yelling and understand each. Everybody is yelling “Shut UP!!!!!” as loud as they can and nobody seems to be able understand why that isn't working. A great deal of the art of reasoning with people concerns “Justice” and how you treat and deal with others. “

The president and his merry tricksters and the band of crony capitalists are Coyote, the Trickster, the liar—a well known Native American archetype- ( and among other people known as "The Serpent", "Hitler", "Frank", etc….) I have always enjoyed playing “Rat Hockey” with such people.

http://open.salon.com/blog/philbert_desanex/2012/03/10/rat_hockey

Such archetypal stories are remembered because they contain Wisdom that cannot be transmitted by words and logic.

Our country is in the throes of a great “discussion about it’s future” that has degenerated into angry and fearful name calling and threats, and THAT appears to be just what certain of the government and its crony capitalists most desire. ( So that they can “Save” us For a reasonable fee in money and adulation, naturaly)

I will tell a”Native American “ legend story that I heard around a campfire when I was a Boy Scout ( My dad got a scout troop when I was 6- as “mascot” through Assistant Scout master, I reckon I was a “Boy Scout” for 20 years)

Rabbit and Coyote

I just have to remember it- I’ll be back
The president claims:

“the power of life and death over any inhabitant of the planet, including citizens of the United States.

The thing that constitutes criminal knowledge is that anyone of a certain mindset has that power.

And what will get you thrown in jail is daring to express the thought that anyone of a certain mindset posseses the power of life and death over the president of the united states.

( I could Think that, but of course such a thought it is too ridiculous to contemplate)

*Warning!
(such thinking tends to have an incarcerating effect on ones body and the surgeon and attorney generals both discourage it in the strongest terms)
What seems difficult to perceive by many supporters of Obama and his current crew is that the total architecture of the US government has now been corrupted by the economic forces that power the country and control the flow of wealth. They still have absolute faith that this structure is effective in controlling and directing these economic forces and cannot accept that it has now failed. The recent ruling of the Supreme court that money is equivalent to free speech is an open signal that the last bastion of protection against unrestricted economic power has fallen.

In its original conception the three branches of government, the executive, the legislative and the judicial were set up so that each one could countervail the powers of the other two. In itself, each sector is untrustworthy and had to be monitored by the other two. But the economic masters of the country have taken over the media which controls opinion in the country and opinion in elections is crucial to gain office. The media do not own the airwaves, they merely have a government granted franchise to make huge amounts of money in their use and by that control can prevent opposing views to their power and thereby control who gains office. Logically time on the media should be granted free of cost to those seeking election so that all points of view should have an opportunity to be exposed for the benefit of the nation and true exposure of all issues but media control has put a very high price on these exposures and thereby, essentially, destroyed effective and essential free speech. Money thereby controls power and all elected officials must be in abeyance to those who control finance. Obama's advisory crew is derived directly from the powers of Wall Street and that is why the rampant scamming, the crooked operations that have disemboweled economics across the nation and caused the housing bubble and and other basically criminal disasters have gone unpunished and unregulated. Wall Street owns Obama and this is quite open and obvious.

A look at the current problems in Europe reflect the same basic corruption of government where all the social safety nets and government services are being dismantled to finance the bankers who indulge in gaming the economy and when their nefarious schemes fail they are rescued by tax money squeezed from the general populace. The business and financial sectors are destroying health, education, and all other beneficial social services to enrich themselves and this is basically what is undermining and perhaps eventually destroying civilization. And Obama is part and parcel of the whole process.
torrito wrote something great on my blog;
"if voting made any difference it would be illegal."
torrito wrote something great on my blog;
"if voting made any difference it would be illegal."
There has always been abuse of common people in America. Although seen as "the other" the native American Indians, the imported slaves, the immigrant southern Europeans, the Asian workers who built the railroads, the Jews, the Catholics who fled persecution, the Vietnamese, the Muslims, the Mexicans who did and still do the lowest paying menial vital work, the miners and the sweat shop textile workers and especially those tough fighters who built the labor unions that established decent pay and working hours and laws that setup safety regulations and help for those when work was difficult or impossible to find, these were and are all Americans and their successes in fighting the greedy bastards who fought them with the police and the politicians that they had bought is what made the nation a reasonably decent place to live.

But they are losing the fight now and losing big and there is hunger and illness and homelessness growing on a scale the richest nation certainly does not deserve and it has no where to go but to get worse and the greedy manipulators who produce nothing and take everything are winning and destroying the country and it seems inappropriate that the people are not energized to fight back not just to reclaim what is being stolen but to take hold of the rich possibilities that modern technology holds in promise, not just for the privileged few but for the whole country. There is plenty for everybody if the crooks and the schemers can be disposed of. It's well past time they were.
MIJ, I hope you understand where I am coming from my friend. You jumped the shark though I appreciate the loyalty. best, libby

Jan, I watched Bill Moyers do an interview with Hacker and Pierson about their book "Winner Take All" politics, and your last two comments surpass that commentary and sum up the roots, state and nature of the corruption PERFECTLY. You ought to drop them into your own blog. I wish everyone could read it!

Our checks and balances government. The rat bastards undermined all three branches. It is chilling the saturation of corruption. The crony rabid rat bastardism OF ALL making the system so EVIL because the enablers and profiteers of the system have sold out for bottom line EVIL. Evil is laziness to the nth degree Scott Peck says. Moral laziness. Me first me second me last. Me me me me me. No empathy capacity. And the warm and fuzzy feeling of criminal cronyism that blankets the evil with a feeling of protection. See, it is not just me, MOST EVERYONE IS DOING IT. It must be okay! A whole army of rabid rat bastards. The political class, the corporatists, the profiteering hawks, the media whores of the media itself and their access-benefitting political and corporate class cronies, as well as the progressive apologists for the likes of the Obama administration on MSNBC, and the networks, for example, AND the insaniacs and idiots on the right on their own propaganda channel, FOX.

The gamesmanship of politics is disgusting.

Hacker said that the politicians and media, the spinsters, had become so adept at deflecting blame from themselves. Duh, well, this economic crisis is all about globalization. It is all about technology. It is all about the shifting demands of education. Yadda yadda yadda. AND THE BUBBLE PEOPLE ENABLING LESSER EVILISM are still buying it!!!!! But more and more of us are seeing the horrifying sham and dirty deeds done to us. Mass murdering and torturous levels of evil. Premature deaths from shabby or no healthcare. Hunger, joblessness, homelessness, lack of education, unjust and unequal system of justice. Genocidal wars. If the genocidal wars don't wake people up. Tell me the price of gas isn't going to fuel the war lust of this country further. But nothing would surprise me any more.

Obama is busily helping out the one percent lock in their forever tax breaks as he tap dances and talks generalized populism out of the other side of his mouth since it is election year. And he looks for a cosmetic non-costly but useful media op crumb to toss the profoundly pathetic Dem loyalists who are too busy attacking any of his critics and obtusely windexing away their LITTLE bubble worlds.

Wall Street, K Street, the creatures of the Pentagon and black ops slitherers, MADISON AVENUE AND THE MEDIA. We must not forget the last two. The erosion of our culture. The "winner take all" mentality. The "buyer beware" opportunism that has enabled the corporations as lying pscyhopaths and rewarded them so well. It is all about competition. Never about quality of merchandise. It is the selling power. The slickness. THE CON. Propaganda for products. Propaganda for politicians. It was only a matter of time until the corporations began treating US citizens the way they have third world countries with their toxic products being foisted on them and who cares about death and illness. MONEY MONEY MONEY makes the world go around the world go around.

THE ULTIMATE OF THIS CALLOW SALESMANSHIP WAS OPRAH USING HER BRAND AND POPULARITY HAWKING FOR OBAMA. What a marriage. Bobbleheaded America nodded along. Well, if Oprah says he's okay.... That is enuf of a resume. The punking of the century. Just another grotesquely corrupt politician at the helm. You don't get to exhale after Bush after all.

Yes, it has been going on a long time, the Madison Ave. shenanigans. The selling of PERSONALITY over character in America. And again bobble-headed Americans seduced and enthralled with the arrogance of hubris at the cost to themselves they are so blind. At the costs of those in more vulnerable positions than they, too -- they couldn't begin to give a sh*t about.

ALSO A CULPRIT is how the halls of academia sold us all out. HUBRIS once again. I watched some obnoxious rat bastard Harvard professor on Charlie Rose a while back, I wish I could remember his name, I googled it then and wrote him, BRAGGING about how it was his most successful students who had caused the downfall of the US economy and created the too big to fail bail-outs. There was no shame or guilt that he had omitted values and ethics in his teaching. Just, how SMART they were to do such a thing. Vomit bucket time. He had this fatherly pride about it. Did Charlie call him out? You kidding? He was slobbering away. THERE WAS ADMIRATION from Charlie and this frightening-father of economic monsters -- admiration FOR THE CRIMINAL CLASS OF BASTARDS that were rescued and rewarded and are still causing economic and some real direct physical carnage to masses of human beings.

We are in a SPIRITUAL DARK AGE. SUCH AN AWESOME NUMBER OF THE CLUELESS STILL. Including the Stockholm Syndrome Stuck-Ones smugly sneering, "Obama is gonna win." Like it is their proud and pyrrhic victory punishing those of us arrogant enough to point out grotesque injustice and EVIL. There is no other word. Peck says "evil" is "live" backwards. The anti-life ones. The anti-humanity ones. The Good Germans of America. The enablers of American naziism.
Thanks, Kathy. Yes, I grew up watching documentaries on sham voting rituals in other countries. We are in such sheeple pens and limited in our elections. Choose among the most appealing personalities among the CORRUPT ones and the media will vilify or ignore any one with a serious conscience. libby
August, point well made! libby
Thanks, I Wooden Dodat, points taken. But sometimes 'CIVILITY' is exploited to keep the enablers so comfortable in their apathetic and amoral comfort zones, thanks to more toxic and protective cronyism for the sake of harmony a/k/a social paralysis and more learned helplessness, that I think there is a time for in your face bombast imho. Especially since lesser evil is so well protected by these types as if they are protecting the so-called holy grail they get so caught up in the us vs. them demonization game. Did you ever watch the old Greg Peck movie "Gentlemen's Agreement" about those good people who say nothing and let the bullies have their way with society? Not a classic-realized movie but one of the best themes Hollywood has put forth. thanks for comment and the future one. best, libby
As Jan asked, what can we do??????
Libby,

You wrote:

As Jan asked, what can we do??????

With all the respect in the world, I notice you did not answer that. I further note that on other occasions when talking about what to do, you offer solutions that are little more than hoping things change.

I mentioned this several times. You seem to think that voting for the Greens will change the way politics work…and the way politics impacts on humanity. But you truly do not give any reasonable descriptions of why you think putting the Greens into power will work out any differently than the way things work now…nor do you give a realistic scenario for achieving that kind of victory.

Your scorn for what you term “the lesser of two evils” is uncalled for—particularly when you have “the Greens” as an alternative. What makes you suppose that introducing the Greens into the equation results in anything other than (in your choice of words): Choosing between the least of three evils?

Why do you suppose “the Greens” will not succumb to the influences and effects of money (which they will need to achieve power) and of power, once achieved? Why do you suppose the humans who will be the politicians of that party will be immune to the kinds of things to which damn near EVERY politician throughout history has succumbed?

Jan’s question ought to be answered…and my answer for it is more practical and every bit as effective as yours, Libby.

I say: Stop conceiving of voting between the nominee of the Democrats and Republicans as voting for the lesser of two evils. Neither is truly evil—both are subject to what human leaders have been subject to from the moment history began being recorded…and probably way, way back before that happened. Pick the one you think to be the better choice. Toss a coin if you honestly cannot make a choice, but anyone with a thirst for political analysis can, if they open their eyes, see which of the two would better help (or hurt less) the agenda of their choosing.

Leaders will have their way, Libby! That is a fact of life. They will get the lion’s share…and lions will almost always get more than their fare share. You lament that it is always “me, me, me” with them…but it was “me, me, me” with Albert Schweitzer, Mother Teresa, Mahatma Gandhi, Thomas Aquinas, and Jesus Christ. Humans are always trying to satisfy themselves…and the greatest of humanitarians are almost certainly doing their “humanitarian work” because it satisfies an inner craving. You, Libby, post what you do because it satisfies you. That is what we humans do. We work to satisfy “me, me, me.”

Nothing wrong with that. That is where we humans are right now in our evolution.

All we gotta try to do is to get the best out of life that we can.

Libby...stop this campaign to malign Barack Obama and start supporting him. You will be doing much more for humanity (and yourself) than what you are doing now.
Another Nader-ite who brought us Bush is all you are!

How to see through those rose-colored glasses when the blinders block your side view too?

We all want the freedom we deserve ... if you and your ilk would have just give Gore a couple hundred more votes we'd be an awful lot closer to getting it and there wouldn't have been any wars to start all this back in motion.

Wake up jester!!! Your outrage engenders poor, and very stupid and naive, decisions that make this all worse ...

Our BLACK HAWAIIAN FEARLESS LEADER is by far the best thing to happen to this country, yet, you who are blind to the realities of actually living, not reading and writing idealism, continue to vote with more stupidity than even the Red State Haters ... fascinating.
Champions of lesser evilism. That's an oxymoron.
There is something very strange going on with these supporters of Obama. It's quite obvious what Obama is, what he does, how he is not the cure, he is the disease. Supporters of Obama are like guys in a desperate hurry to go somewhere in a car that not only has run out of gas but the pistons have locked in the engine. They sit in this useless machine and keep pumping the gas pedal, keep turning the starter key and the battery is dead as well. The car doesn't work, you tell them and they say it's the only car we've got. So they sit there pushing levers and twisting switches and saying it has to be a good car because it's the only car we've got.

It's time to get the hell out of the useless piece of junk and if walking is the only thing that gets us moving, we've got to learn to walk.
fRANK: "stop this campaign to malign Barack Obama and start supporting him."

WHY? Because fRANK says so, and everyone knows that fRANK is THE one who knows all, understands all and has never been wrong about anything in his life.

Also, obongo is his lord and savior and yea, though fRANK walk in the valley of evil, obongo shalt protect him.


-R-
Libby

Civility as a tactic is sometimes best, sometimes not. My point is that after you've established with your opponent that rules are made up as we go along, you are then free to use him as the puck in a game of rat hockey, and not become a bad person by so doing
First rule is, always discuss the rules.*

The truly despicable are those who pretend Outrage at the "rule violations" of their opponents and then hit their opponent with a chair while the refs back is turned. *

* Quote from "Butch Cassidy,his Wit and Wisdom"
* Quote from The Tao of WWE"
Also, The "Rubes" where I am, hold The World Wresstlin E ( whatever the World Wild Life Fund made the change it to from federation) and Government in equally high esteem for both their "Truth" and entertainment value.

When you are trapped in a Tella Novella, you might as well root for the characters

Still working on the pony and coyote story- I may have to post it on my blog, if you've moved on- I'll pm you in any case - not much time these days- you're invited most heartily to the Chautauqua,
Jan, Mark, I Wooden, with sharp "tough love and dedication to reality" pushers like us, I have hope though dear God what a formidable fight. Thanks for the comments and to be continued.

Jan I love your metaphor of the dysfunctional car.

looking forward to more about rat hockey and your parables, I Wooden!

Mark, :)

best, libby