AUGUST 18, 2012 5:33PM

‘Dust-ups’ or ‘Cyber-Bully Gang Rapes’?

Rate: 25 Flag


All the literature advises to not respond to bullying. To cut your losses and limp away from the cruelty. Limp away from the horror that someone wanted to hurt and humiliate you.

The bully’s or bullies’ goal was to gratify himself or herself or themselves to assert enough power to find a way to dominate you, to torturously whammy your sense of psychological grounding and well being, at least for a short period (but all the better if it has more obvious profound impact -- like to get you to leave a community that you a short time ago really cherished and felt safe in). Maybe they have some grounds or think they do to call you out. Calling out is one thing. “Demonizing” or “character assassination” or "schadenfreude" is another. We all know the difference.

Their main goal is to profoundly weaken your stature within your mutual community, if possible. That’s what schadenfreude and malice are about. Lazily and narcissistically clearing the field by taking down others so the “takers” feel more on top. Perverse Darwinism on steroids.

I don’t think even the bully or bullies know how much psychic residue the malice leaves with his or her or their victims.

I wondered about the victims of Bush’s torture program, now Obama’s but denied and/or minimized by that administration, of course. Strangers being tortured by US strangers or other ethnic strangers we had outsourced the “job” to. Thrown into rat holes, put into insanely cruel stress positions, enduring simulated drownings, made to strip naked and even worse unimaginable sexual torture. Wondering WHY? WHY ME?

Why were they in such a hell suddenly? The victim enduring the physical torture on one level but on another the psychologically torturous confusion of what had they done to deserve such vicious (and anti-Geneva Conventions) cruelty being delivered against them by anonymous but cruel acting strangers?  GRATUITOUSLY! Since they are of other nationalities than US or western Europe, that bottom line means they can easily be kidnapped and tortured and if they survive it (many didn’t) locked up for years or in the case of those at Gitmo for life, even when they (some -- many) have been proven innocent? So many cases of mistaken identity (rampant since poor people were paid-off for pointing the finger at fellow countrymen and there was the language barrier which added to the confusion and the misidentifying) and that still didn't matter. The insane abuse continued and continues on. WTF?

I think of Obama’s weekly Tuesday “Kill List” of “terrorists” to be assassinated for that week by drones. I wonder if they enjoy coffee and muffins as they ponder.

It seems one or two or perhaps a lot more at open salon have their own periodic “kill list” for character assassination. Maybe not weekly. Not yet.

Once again, the amorality on the national plane reflects amorality on the local plane. And vice versa.

With perpetual war all over the planet, why the hell shouldn’t bullying be escalating at the local levels? I read on one blog adult cyber-bullying is escalating profoundly and is being perpetrated more and more by adult women even more than men. What is that about?

Titillation and schadenfreude. You see it on the television in reality shows. Even in news reporting. Another civil war “dust-up” in Syria (as a US-enabled Al Qaeda jihadist terrorist beheads another innocent person or simply slits his or her throat), as we sit and from the safety and comfort of our own non-war torn country ignore the fact that our tax dollars and our government is doing all it can to devastate a country for dishonorable reasons. Working with Al Qaeda, no less. (Hey, let's be pragmatic -- ends justifies the means, after all!) Life is cheap. Thousands and thousands of Syrians will die violently or have to find another homeland, but what the hey, the US and Israel and “cronies” will have demolished an ally of Iran and that is the amoral chess game our war addicts at the head of state want. To hell with the golden rule. To hell with humanity. To hell with giving peace a chance. Peace? Get over yourself, you sissy!

Hey, nobody slit my throat or beheaded me so what am I crabbing about, huh? Point taken.

And look at Manning and Assange, what they have had to deal with being at the hands of bullies with much greater means to devastate their lives and use them as an example of what happens when someone bucks a system dominated and terrorized by cronyistic amoral people who know how to effectively organize and punish. Why amoral crony nations, US, Britain, Sweden, are willing to collude in “getting” Assange for daring to challenge the economic and military gangsters in power. And the whole world must learn that you can’t hide in any corner of the world, the POWER of the bottom feeding scum sucking elite political/corporate/military mafia internationally will track you down and kill or torture you! Why, they’ve got DRONES, after all. Might makes right!!!! Keep your head down or even if you do, you MAY BE NEXT!

To me the horror on the open salon local plane was not only dealing with one or two obvious bullies, but dealing with a formidable posse of secondary bullies whom I did not expect to have such ready, willing and able spirits to join up in the hurting and the humiliating. It made me think of the horrifying phenomenon of a “gang” rape. How the group of eager to please cohorts of a really sick individual shelves its capacity for conscience and acts out the most vicious acts of misogyny on a fellow human being, usually a woman but not necessarily. I would categorize a gang-up pile-on for character assassination as more akin to gang rape than trivialize it as a mere “dust-up”. My take.

Also, there is the horror of the vast balance of the community that apparently deals with and has dealt with moments of downright sick amoral group behavior of such a significant number of fellow citizens to simply batten down the hatches during the explosion of malice and schadenfreude and wait it out. Ignore or even enable with good-will cronyism on the return of the “conquering anti-heroes.” To exhale a collective sigh later and trivialize and minimize the ugly “phenomenon”, that disturbing opening of the communal “heart of darkness” portal, and re-embrace the perpetrators and laughingly or a bit uncomfortably dismiss it all as one more “dust-up”. Rate them, give them nurturing comments. Show them that loyalty is there for them -- unconditional loyalty. Wow.

To me as apparently one more victim of this periodic open salon game, it had to do with something a lot bigger, heavier and more vile than “dust”.

Oh, those darn kids. At it again with their little character assassination and vicious humiliation games. And when the person clearly can’t take the joke, escalate, escalate, escalate. Uppity bitch. Uppity anti-Obama bitch (in my particular case). And after all, soon after, the cannibals morph back to human form, charming and witty and self-congratulatory and self-deprecating even about it all (their little lapses of cruelty, oops, “my bad”) with such peer-pressuring rationalizations and after all, they’ve got the numbers. So many, many, many willing to play at least at the edges of it all. Look at those comments and those ratings!

What are you going to do? Call them out? I’m talking about you, the non-participants. Believe me, I know the price.

Who would want to step in front of the next oncoming train? Get real!

Thank God they have returned to being their charming selves once again. They only try to take out one or two or three people at a time. And if that satisfies them for a while.... Well, we should consider ourselves lucky.

One more uppity woman or even uppity guy got his. Nobody’s perfect so they are fair game. And if some seem near perfect (and by no means do I put myself in that category) all the more reason to have at them. Sometimes life is tough. They got a lesson in toughening up. So it goes. Life ain’t no rose garden.

If their (their victims/survivors') participation changes with the community, so it goes. They may open up less. They may pull back. They may become even more defensive. Nothing like a good humbling, after all. Character building?

If they (their victims/survivors) leave the community with a huge sense of sadness and/or bitterness, so it goes. Their fault for not being able to handle it. No serious skin off our noses. After all, there is such a thing as free speech. Bullies have rights, right?

There is an old movie called “A Gentleman’s Agreement” I saw years and years ago with Gregory Peck. I can’t remember it that well. I think it was a movie that was maybe too didactic, telling more than showing, as they say, but the theme of it was noble. It was about anti-Semitism. At one point, one of the victims of anti-Semitism calls out not the racists but the silent enablers of racism. He asks Peck and his girlfriend how many times they were with some respectable peers at a party and someone said something really shocking and ugly suddenly, made a tasteless and racist joke. The joke was so ugly that it made Peck and his girl friend probably look away, their faces frozen for at least a second or two over the ugliness of the comment, maybe they felt a sicky feeling in the pits of their stomachs.

But did they call out the racism the questioner wondered? Really call it out? Or did they endure it and thus enable it? They admitted they didn’t call it out directly. They promised him they would from then on.

Thought I would share some thoughts and feelings post my experience of this past week.

I know I had some karma coming to me on this site. I have been pre-emptively defensive at times and am sorry for that. And I can be flat-footed in my reformer zeal about politics and with generalization. And God knows, I talk the talk a lot farther than I walk the walk.

But the “dust-up” I witnessed from the inside was profound. I empathize with those who have had it even worse and for a longer duration than myself.

I grew up in a troubled household. My dad drank and could suddenly morph into a bully and then when he came back to being nice again we all exhaled with relief and tried to enjoy his spirit knowing the roller coaster would inevitably visit the dark and threatening venting malice place again.

My mother suffered from borderline disorder and the roller coaster would take us to her paralyzing and horrifying darkness at times. Fewer times than Dad’s, but I would take a thousand of Dad’s diatribes to avoid her annihilating malice when it ambushed.

I minimized and denied like crazy. I think as a kid you have to to function. I denied and minimized so much so that I blamed myself for deserving much of the malice -- assumed shame and responsibility -- for those ambushes. Shame more than guilt. With guilt you have a sense of what you did. With shame you feel all the more lost since you can’t understand the logic of the vilification. You are confused. I was so confused so often growing up. They say confused means “con” -- with -- and “fused” -- bound to. I don’t want to be confused by and bound to gratuitous cruelty any more. I have enough to take care of in terms of legitimate character weaknesses I need to address, without gratuitous bullying shaming and confusing me.

I can’t minimize and deny as much any more. I don’t want to go back there. It erodes too much of my own spirit.

Cruel is cool?

Not in my book.

Author tags:

open salon

Your tags:


Enter the amount, and click "Tip" to submit!
Recipient's email address:
Personal message (optional):

Your email address:


Type your comment below:
-R- back to comment later......
Libby, I used to read you because we often believe in and support the same causes. I'm not going to anymore because, frankly, your hysteria is getting rediculous.

I mean, comparing the minor, turn-offable crap here to gang rape? Really? Comparing the "Don't gotta read it if you don't wanna" dust ups to the atrocities in the Middle East? Seriously?

You have hereby lost all credibility, and certainly all of MY respect, by these comparisons and your others insane spewings. Hope DARE you compare actual rape victims to this penny ante crap. It is an absolute insult to their suffering.

You should be ashamed of yourself. That or get back on your freakin meds!
"Perverse Darwinism on steroids."
This is the second post today describing something on steroids - perfectly. So rated this too! Great piece.
(Now wait for the bullies to show up) ;-)
Oh, and to the three synchophatic morons who have already rated this pitiful pile of meme BS: HAHAHAHAHA!!! You clowns are so rediculous! No wonder OS has gone in the sewer!
Exacto! Ignoring it doesn't work and only allows the hurt to seep deeper. And I've seen only rare occasions when the bullying happens solo - it is pack behavior, and literally brings out some of the most primordial behaviors. It's one thing to challenge or even confront one another, and even to be a little snippy in doing it. It is a very different thing to attack, over and over, to personalize and deliberately demoralize, and then to look wide eyed and innocent when the behavior is spotlighted and say, "Who? ME???" As you say, most of us know the difference. Many of us will not accept the responsibility for our behavior, and will hammer those who do accept responsibility. Thanks for another excellent essay on this subject.
SBA, the word for your extremely offensive commentary is verbal abuse. I support Libby in calling it out. Deliberately demonizing people in this way makes a high level exchange of ideas impossible.

On my own blog, I delete verbally abusive comments. I would definitely support Libby in deleting yours.
Libby, believe me I never new that there is such a thing as a feelings abuse, or that verbal violence can cause such a harm. I trully can totally connect with your words..." I can’t minimize and deny as much any more. I don’t want to go back there...'' and the parallel of abuse in the larger life climax is of true essence, because we have been taught not to understand violence, or even to consider it as something that we all can not do nothing about.

The analysis of being attacked '' anonymous but cruel acting strangers?'', is crucial cause I can understand your meaning. The meaning that true life has lot of bullying ( see politicians, authorities etc), a lot of disrespect to our needs, feelings, sensitivities ( see everyday life), and one has the very natural need of being around a friendly environment.

And for one having to deal with all these that in true life we all condemn, takes a lot our of the true energy, and the true wantings of the individual. I can understand you~!

Thank you for stating the issue, rated. Let us all wish that civilization will win...
Your courage for putting it all out there after what has gone on in recent days is awesome. Bullying and being bullied was considered a rite of passage in my youth (see "The Honor") but most outgrew it. Brace yourself. R
I rarely agree with Libby on any substantive issue but, in regards to the situation here on OS, she is right on.

It is so interesting that SBA is so completely dead to how she hurts other people; SBA is the rapist who thinks that the victim was just making believe.
To have the absolute insensitivity to come here and denigrate how Libby feels, to tell her how she should feel, as if SBA is the arbiter of all that is right and wrong.
I don't think her post should be deleted; her comment should stand in place as an example of just how low a person she can be.
On the basis of just this comment, I will never let a comment of SBA's persist on any post of mine.

Sorry, Libby.

Libby, I can't comprehend why anyone participates in bullying of any stripe... I have on occasion used words to take down a bully usually in defense of someone who I care about and more often than not against another person I care about... nothing brings out my own rage more than two people I care for going after one another. As far as those who belittle the feelings of others, I take into account that they have their own issues and their "get a life" BS simply reveals their own unrecognized vulnerability. For the most part I have no time or energy to engage with malicious manipulative emotionally broken people. I refuse to play their game or any game at all, so hang in there kiddo and don't let the bastards grind you down.
The first rule of fight club is we don't talk about fight club
The first rule of circle jerk is we don't talk about circle jerk

Why? Because we are ashamed to be caught participating.

Pardon my being crude, but OS is a rather crude place some times- as an older brother to 4 younger brothers /senior patrol leader/Scoutmaster to 12 years of scouts /de facto gunnery sergeant to a company of marines ( bouncer in their bar, actually- their gunny would leave them "in my care") - I know more about the behavior of small boys than I really care to remember. They can and do develop the charming practice of the "Circle jerk", not to be too blunt, but it is a way of gaining pleasure from someone else without the bother of actually having to conduct adult social intercourse. They tend to pick an object of "rape" ( Lust after) and fantasize while stimulating each other physically and verbally.

They egg each other on, and if the object of "lust" is present ( male or female) will indeed verbally assault her/him so as to say "We're raping you". ( Carried further, it quits being a circle jerk and becomes flat out sexual assault. )

The point is that it's an "Emperor's new clothes" situation
The correct answer when they scream "we're raping you"
is to laugh and say, "No, you're a bunch of little boys jerking each other off" They have confused adult intercourse with adolescent masturbation. All of the Male members of the OS circle jerk are pretty sensitive to being called on their mutual masturbation. I never knew any groups of little girls, so I don't know what the female equivalent is, but there is definitely a Female "circle Jerk" here too.

I've interrupted a few "Circle Jerks" in my time, if they had a target, I've administered a few bruises as reminders of what government by superior force (Payback ) is about ( the two times I've actually interrupted a rape resulted in one badly broken leg in one instance and a "Fled at gunpoint" in the other.) Don't let them con you.

They can't physically"Assault you", they can only mentally assault you by jerking themselves and their buddies off with you as target. Humiliation is the prescribed antidote. Point out that they are only engaging in mental masturbation, not the social intercourse they pretend to. It usually works.

If not, delete their comments and reply "FOAD"
OMG. I sign in to read some good stuff for a change and happy to see your post on top and then there it is that wacko SBA again. Shame on HER!!!

Libby, thanks for your great writing and sincerity. Please ignore the malicious sicko and it's followers, they have nothing else better to do.

You are the believable one, not them. Ignore or delete them. R.++++
I disagree with you stance on Israel A LOT and I think you are not recognizing that Terrorists are bullies and monsters,but I think you make some good points about some other things
I have not been able to go online for a week straight but am glad to see that this is on the top of the feed today. Good outweighs bad we hope
Safe Bet Amy compared the OS spam fighting revolution to violent gay bashing if I remember correctly. My god, the hypocrisy. She strikes me as a real bad apple-- shrill and stupid as can be. I wouldn't delete her comments . Let the good people see how low she goes. Good wills out -- I really have faith in that.
Sheesh! The way SBA attacked you is enough to make me think she took you to bed and you told her she is a lousy lover!

You and I don't see eye to eye on many things but, for whatever it's worth, I think that you hit the nail on the head this time!

And kudos for having the guts to post this blog. Not many of us would have your courage.

I am very sorry about the personal attacks you must sustain for your views, but as much as I admire your viewpoint I do not read you for your personality, I read you for your clear sighted understanding of the terrible problems tearing civilization apart and the extensive documentation that backs it up and points clearly at the instigators who are driving everything of human value into the abyss. Civilization is at a crossroads and either the people in general react to protect themselves, their descendents, their planet, or if they submit to the totally vicious stupid bastards in control it will be the end of everything. You need neither excuses nor even approval to be confident you are fighting the good fight to save the world. We are staring world death in the face and it must be opposed. It's time for screaming and strong action and that's enough.
Of course no one commenting so piously here has ever engaged in bullying or excuse me, "pack" behaviour. Let me go dig up a few posts I've copied and I think we'll see all the names of the biggest whiners right up front. As for comparing dust-ups to rape and the nightmare in the middle east -- has everyone here gone mad? Go out, get a life, leave OS for a while. Trust me, you need the perspective.

As for stirring things up, libby you seem to be an expert. Just how much attention do you need every day anyway? Wait, don't answer that. Like so many of your buddies, apparently it's inexhaustible. Try filling that gaping hole elsewhere; you're boring and you don't write very well either.
must B full moon 2nite

no? iz dark moon

everybody batshit
Respectfully, Dr. Bramhall, you do not know the full history. Believe me, the people you are defending do lots of bullying themselves in between whining about being victims. And Fusun, I mean trudie, aren't you proud of yourself? I mean, you must be. Look what you've wrought. The takedown of OS. Then again, I know your type. If I can't be the boss lady, no one gets to play! Back to the sandbox all of you.
The Internet is probably not a safe place for you. Seriously.
Are you kidding me? Another meta post? Poor libby the victim? Libby who walked in, threw a carefully lobbed bomb or 5, now cries poor me? Yes, your hysteria is getting the best of you and you need to take a break.

The only bullying that took place here these past few weeks has been perpetrated by the posters that this community banded together to protect itself from. Liars, cheats, racists, and harassers were called out loudly and clearly. I don't know who you think the bullies were, but you'd be wrong if you think it was anyone fighting against the likes of the racists, liars, cheats, and harassers that finally went a step too far and got their heads handed to them as they so richly deserve. I don't know what your problem is but this post is the epitome of ridiculous.
@kellylark-When was the last time YOU wrote anything original - not trolling around? Don't tell me - was it February 2010? At least I admitted I'm here to read and comment NOT to follow creeps like SBA and EP as back up. You don't even know what the heck you are talking about you ignorant moron.
Hit a nerve there did I, Fusun? I'm happy to send you the emails to and from Emily re my original account. 'Tis a mystery I'd still like to solve.Apart from easily proving it, why on earth would I have an alter EXACTLY THE SAME as my original and go public with it immediately? Then again, logic, facts and critical/deductive thinking have never been your strong suit.

I think you ought to be very careful about some of the stuff you're saying about me because I've got some dirt on you that you really, really don't want to see in print. You see, one of my many skills as a journalist is to verify information, and I do it very well. You don't print very many. The thing is, tho, I don't play as dirty as the "nice", ladylike daddy's girls like you do. I don't like going beneath the belt. But in your case, I may make an exception since you stink up the joint so much with your lies and fake sincerity.

As for "shenanigans" -- methinks I hear your co-conspirator in that word but I refuse to ever utter her name again in case she might use it as an excuse to run for mayor of OS -- I think you've cornered that market. Between the smear campaigns, alters, fake rates and let's just have a teeny little mention here of the many, many LIES you've told about your personal life -- you really don't have any room to maneuver on that score. Do I make myself clear?
Oh and Fusun -- did I mention that you and your alters rated the banned racist rwnutjob's anti-Semitic screed not once, not twice, but FIVE times. I think that says everything anyone needs to know about you and your "niceness" and "principles." Yes, indeed it does.
This "poor me" victim stuff is getting real old. Go find a psych text and read about the classic "splitting" behavior of the borderline personality disorder. It's you to a "T." And stop taking yourself so seriously. You're just not that important. None of us are.

@kitd-save your breath. You're not that important either. Hate to break it to you.

I don't like. commenting on posts like this; but. I'm beginning to think that you guys are believing your own bullshit. I realize my comments won't change you one iota. Posts like this are nothing but shit-stirrers and you love it. And so do your fans. Bye now.
This "poor me" victim stuff is getting real old. Go find a psych text and read about the classic "splitting" behavior of the borderline personality disorder. It's you to a "T." And stop taking yourself so seriously. You're just not that important. None of us are.

@kitd-save your breath. You're not that important either. Hate to break it to you.

I don't like. commenting on posts like this; but. I'm beginning to think that you guys are believing your own bullshit. I realize my comments won't change you one iota. Posts like this are nothing but shit-stirrers and you love it. And so do your fans. Bye now.
Libby, this personal infighting is just bullshit.

Your value is in your attention to the political situation and how the powers in control are perverting all the creativity and the wealth into dominating natural resources and routing power and finance in favor of the rich and creating a world of unceasing conflict and destroying the general benefits of good government for the average citizen.

Put on your Teflon overcoat and continue your good work.
I absolutely agree with Jan Sand in the body of his comment. I don't always have the time to get to all of your snips, I feel that you could use some editing (and he could help), but you write passionately about the things you believe in (or against), and that is valid.
This post is not valid. It's stirring up another shitstorm which you proclaim to vehemently dislike. So why do it.? And THEN not even monitor your comments?
I, personally, take huge offense at the use of rape in the title of a post that is not about rape, You can scroll through my archives (been here awhile) and see other times when I have argued about this point. Whether or not you have been raped, and I certainly hope you weren't, in this instance you were NOT raped in any sense of the word. You demean survivors around the world by using that term. I know - I am one, and spent the past five years working for the rights of survivors.
You also were not tortured. You also are not the victim in the causes you believe in. It's very hard to maintain passion for seemingly lost causes - I would know, for instance.
But what I learned - LEARNED - from being and advocate and counselor is that we NEVER put ourselves into those positions.
So, as a rape survivor who has NEVER used my own experience as a frigging metaphor or point, I think you should take a deep look at how and what you want to post on OS.
You are not a victim - and actually, survivors of rape use that term "survivor". I don't know what victims of torture call themselves - but neither do you.
Rudy, see you later! thanks for coming by.

SBA, I don't use the word "rape" lightly. I wanted to counterpoint the minimization of the term "dust up" as well as to communicate a sense of the emotional trauma that impacts each and every victim of a phenomenon of a social "pile on" by people enthralled in a "crony" flash mob type of profoundly immature maliciousness and demonization of them.

Taking issue with someone over something is one thing but trying to turn someone into an instant laughingstock is straight out of high school "cooties" time. "We're okay and you are not" and we have chosen to scapegoat you because we can. A kind of nasty sport.

And I do cite the os sub-group dysfunction here alongside the bigger war on empathy because it is that, a war on empathy, an in your face war on empathy.

The bigger level war of empathy is now institutionalized evil, supported and enabled by the manipulation of law. Impacting whistleblowers everywhere at every level, foreign peoples trying to live their lives in peace but are being terrorized by those we are enabling for our ulterior motives, those being droned out of corporate-agenda collusion with our government inciting terrorism to perpetuate war and accuse others of "hitting us back", the state of the military and our soldiers becoming suicidal and HOMICIDAL (the recent Sikh temple murders) because of the amoral chaos in that toxic authoritarian environment (and the neo-nazi racists now growing in force there), the police state over-zealous enforcement in which when someone is cornered by the police for any infraction the likelihood they will be killed is ridiculously high. Military rules. Excessive force coming back to us from military m.o. abroad, and let us never leave out the economic rat bastard terrorists who don't give a sh*t about people economically struggling but will do anything to rob and steal money from others as long as they can get away with it and after bribing politicians, who is to seriously stop them? Moral integrity is certainly on the wane!!!

To drive a decent human being out of the open salon "village" with harassment is a pretty profound thing for the sicko titillation of flexing sub-group power. I don't blame the victim as you seem to. I blame the harassers. Every one of us is sacred. EVERY ONE OF US SACRED. And deserves the right to function here. Live and let live unless a few power addicts decide it is "clobbering" time and their cronies run with it? That sucks.

And "free speech" is a delicious thing and I honestly wonder how long we will have it. But while we do, we have to push back against hate speech. Against the exploiters of "free speech" who spin the truth for their own bullying agendas. And loyalty is a good thing unless it succumbs to "gang think" and cronies of bullies turn bullies easily themselves.

"Taking a joke" is not the same as having to endure consistent and relentless cyber bullying, especially group cyber bullying.

I am calling on those of us capable of conscience, and I know some with disorders are not capable of conscience -- seriously -- but those who are to use theirs and not SHELVE them.

Group evil is ugly.

My two and a half cents.

Fine. You are still mixing up way too many points. OS is a microcosm of all that you feel politically towards what you feel oppresses you and YET people are to blame for not letting you feel "safe" here?
Where is your sense of responsibility? Please. Especially with this post.
ushigrey, thanks so much for stopping by.

there is something "lord of the flies" primal in the "mean girls m.o.". when lost in the fogs of narcissism and group-thrill cronyism there is little capacity for empathizing with a victim you or more likely someone you are enthralled to has demonized. The "victims" are no longer a fellow human with vulnerable and relate-able feelings but a target like in a video game or even a drone game. And G-D them if they dare to push back!!!! Kerosene on the fires of cronyism apparently.

I stumbled on Big Brother reality show the other night and it seemed to be celebrating the whole us vs. them gamesmanship think. Not pretty.

thanks for commenting! best, libby
How can everything oppress you all at the same time? How do you breathe? And PLEASE, for your own sake, don't write mini posts to your posts as comments...try to say it in 500 words or less in comments at least.
I think you are in love with language, but need some help in communication. I say that with respect for what you are saying - but with no respect for how you tend to use "the feed" with long answers to each person and also, what is the point of this post?
I remain offended by the fact that you would compare your plight on OS to rape and torture. If it's that bad? Well, you figure out the approriate action.
Amy, you are accusing me and those who happened to have rated me just above of bringing OS down to the sewer level? Really? An appeal for a harassment-free climate "to live and let live" is a climb UP not down! MORONS, CLOWNS? Kind of 'hysterical' and punishing vocab. Sure I AM emotional, but I don't think I am exhibiting hysteria above or now.

i guess i should return later...this is exhausting.
I read about 1/3rd of this and know enough to offer a prescription. 5 bandages for the stigmata and some counseling to address the cyber enmeshment.

See the front desk to arrange payment.

Seriously, for the record, I don't care. Y'all have an enjoyable exchange. Good night.
kitd, thanks for your savvy on this. When someone is run out of "Dodge" a/k/a open salon, a decent and sacred citizen, it is a loss for the person who was committed and invested to the community and it is a greater loss for the community. The general community has been bullied and dictated to by a bullying subgroup.

Yes, the "pack behavior" has what I consider a "gang-raping m.o." I can't believe people will now get on their high horses and accuse me of not respecting rape victims and survivors. I do respect rape victims and survivors of course. But I also respect and savvy psychological gang-bully-raped victims/survivors and if any one doesn't think there are many and that the ramifications of having been harassed don't have lasting impact try googling cyber-bullying. It is all over the net and no longer a teen phenomenon, sadly.

How often does this group bullying behavior when perpetrated on kids in those tender years of identity formation drive them to suicide. I wonder if a particular pack responsible shrugs that result, too, simply and chillingly easily blaming the victim. And rationalizes well, they weren't the only ones involved since there was a committed pack so they are not to blame. Not their fault. Just cuz they were a small (hah!) part? And the suicidal person was just way too sensitive and all the other rationalizations they and their cronies will easily collect.

What Scott Peck discovered after the My Lai massacre in Viet Nam. There was a profound lack of guilt for the massacre of women and children and old men. 500 people were involved altogether, some in the primary slaughter, and then those who soon after knew about it but said nothing, many didn't think it was really wrong their consciences were so in the freezer. That their commanders had commanded it even though they knew the rules of engagement (almost entirely gone today by the way), that they were foreigners and were linked to the enemy by their skin color, that the soldiers were burned out and angry and didn't care about murder any more, etc. Maybe many had PTSD.

Thanks for echoing my thought on THERE IS A DIFFERENCE, a line, between genuine disagreements to be explored, even when they can get pretty hot with hurt feelings, and an ugly group bullying gamesmanship. Yes, we all know the line, kitd. And minimizing cruelty is furthering the harassment crime.

The larger needs to give the bullying subgroup more tough love than enabling unconditional love for cruel behavior imho.

Responsibility -- the ability to respond! We need to cultivate that responsibility. We need to keep our consciences awake and alert to reality. And, again, to assert tough love when we see fit. When we see dark things happening within our community. This is my community and yours. Not just one clique's community to play with at will!

best, libby
Will be back! Thanks for commenting. best, libby
Your reply to kitd pretty much answers any questions I had. You no longer have an even slightly valid viewpoint to me since you seem to think you were actually "cyber raped" which is not even a thing - and as I believe Sirenita pointed out, bullying is prosecuted for teenagers, not adults. I wanted to gibe you some benefit of the doubt, but now find you both alarming and pathetic in your use of terms that don't really apply to you to further paint yourself as a victim.
It's too bad. I'm sure you will still have your fans here - not because of what you write, but because of your victim stance. I doubt they will be reading your stuff in the long run.
Good luck here on OS. My attempts to have a rational conversation with you are met with way too much angst. And just to set the record straight - you were not raped. You were not raped, and it is offensive to use that term in this situation on this forum
Your reply to kitd pretty much answers any questions I had. You no longer have an even slightly valid viewpoint to me since you seem to think you were actually "cyber raped" which is not even a thing - and as I believe Sirenita pointed out, bullying is prosecuted for teenagers, not adults. I wanted to gibe you some benefit of the doubt, but now find you both alarming and pathetic in your use of terms that don't really apply to you to further paint yourself as a victim.
It's too bad. I'm sure you will still have your fans here - not because of what you write, but because of your victim stance. I doubt they will be reading your stuff in the long run.
Good luck here on OS. My attempts to have a rational conversation with you are met with way too much angst. And just to set the record straight - you were not raped. You were not raped, and it is offensive to use that term in this situation on this forum
I have read this entire post.
I have read all its comments.
I want measured--margined.
Sentences as on a typewriter.
I am 3 for five, I heartheBBC.
I am drink ice cold Canada Dry.
I want to leave the city. Get away.
Save for my laptop light, it is dark.
One of the fascinating things about reading is that each of us view what is written from different perspectives and with a unique historical perspective.

I didn't read you comments as equating cyberbullying with gang raping. I think the dynamics of each have similarities with one another, though the scale is profoundly different. As to the emotional impact? It would be like comparing apples to oranges.

Much of my graduate and doctoral work as well as professional experience was with people who had experienced sexual assault. I also worked for many years with violent offenders, both adult as well as juveniles. I say this not to suppose I know more than anyone else, but rather to give a context of the lens I wear to this discussion.

In working with literally hundreds of "offenders" I did not have a single juvenile offender who faced criminal charges solo. Every child and youth I worked who committed crimes did so with at least one partner. Many of the adults also committed their crimes as part of a team or group.

A common mistake that alot of people make is to compare the impact of sexually assaultive trauma. I was trained in part by a professor who admonished us harshly to NEVER use the phrase "just fondled" in his class or risk an automatic F. His message was clear and lasting - only the individual who experiences the assault can determine how painful it is, and that pain can never be compared to anyone else's pain.

The analogy of group rape to cyber bullying is a sobering one, and I appreciate that some people may be offended by it. Nonetheless, as I have already said, the DYNAMICS of both have some similarities and I think it's a fair though painful analogy.

As for those who say, as I sometimes do myself, that you don't "get" something - consider the words of a wise character named Silas: "Just because you don't get it don't mean it ain't got."
I could be in the Ivory Bar, nursing a nurse.
Oh My God. You are now comparing your experiences to the My Lai massacre? I GET it, sometimes, in some of the things you have written, where you make a leap from injustices on the domestic front to international injustices and historical injustices. But today you have proclaimed that you have been gang raped and tortured on OS and that your experience is similar to those in a massacre in Vietnam. Wow. Just WOW.
Regarding adult bullies - certainly adults know how to bully. Yes, I'm aware someone here on OS who apparently has a law degree though has never been a professional lawyer has indicated that adults cannot be charged/tried/indicted for bullying behavior. I don't know but for the sake of argument I'll allow this is true. Nonetheless, adult bullying most certainly DOES occur.
As I said before in many comments those who hide their antisemitism behind political correctness are cowards but still dangerous. But here, you criticize the "silent enablers." They are also cowards if the context is antisemitism. However, if the context is bullies on OS, it is a different story. Not everyone has your high intellect, passion and courage, Libby.

Not everyone can handle 10 to 20 bitter, angry, organized hater-trolls following her/him around from post to post, turning every post into a long (sometimes a week) thread of nasty comments/personal attacks, even know they know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about her personally. They will threaten and attack her friends/readers everywhere. Who needs that hate?

Responding to haters is letting the terrorists win--I never thought I would say that.

We (your readers) love you and respect you as an honorable person and a brilliant political writer. So please, write for your readers, and let the hate eat the haters. R
@kit - Did you read the title? "dust ups or cyber bully gang rapes". how did you NOT reach the conclusion that libbylnyc was, um equating all of those things?
All hours means midnight. The clock resets.
Should read:
I'm drinking ice cold BBC.
Yesterday, I drank Irish coffee by the river.
I went whoo whoo to cruising boatloads.
Several people waved.
It is 57 degrees, fields are not ripe.
Aim - yes, I read the title, and I read the article several times. I don't see the equation that you do. That does not make either of us stupid or ignorant. It only means we aren't reading it the same way. If you ARE reading it to mean the gang rape and cyberbullying are identical, which apparently you are, you have every right to express your outrage. Others may well see it differently, and that is okay.
Nice try Kit. I see it as a completely false dichotomy and a weak premise.
Aim - No problem then. We simply disagree. It doesn't make either of us wrong or evil.
@kit and @all: I never used the word evil, or, as far as I can tell, wrong. I have to go to sleep, but will log on tomorrow to see how libby and anyone else responds to what i have said.
One thing I want to make clear - I speak for myself and only for myself. If people support me, that is their choice. I am NOT part of any group, and my initial post and comments throughout the past ten days reflect that. I have been very civil on Libby's other posts while asking questions that need answers. And I'll leave asking, again, what is the point of this post?
Sigh. I never suggested that you said anything about wrong or evil - only meant that it's okay for us to disagree. As to the point of this or any other blog? We take what makes sense to us, we leave the rest behind, and there isn't much value in shredding things that we don't agree with or that we don't understand.

Libby - thanks for providing this forum for dialog.
'"Like a sailor said quote, ain't that a hole in the boat?'"

My triceps ache. I have opened an Heineken Lite with a Beck's opener.
I am unsure if the 'an' before H words applies to Heiniken. What the hey it's a fucking A.
Thoth: You prove once again that you don't understand a single thing. You think the people who disagree with the nonsense spouted here and elsewhere are organized? Just because you and your gang of professional victims/whiners spend nearly every waking moment plotting -- think how much time Fusun's dozens of alters took to create -- doesn't mean the rest of us do. Organized! That really makes me laugh.
@kit aqnd @all: I learned the hard way to be careful about not only my choice of words in comments but who they might be interpreted by. So...just securing my back end . As to the point of this blog...who's to say? We'll never know since you and I are about 20 comments ahead of her, Kit. Or we'll know tomorrow...but I think, given the title and the content and the content of the comments so far, Libby L wanted to stir some shit up to get her politics in the feed. I would almost applaud it if she would back down on the rape and victim stuff.
Yesterday a woman my age swam from Havana to Key West.
I am Bogarting an American Spirit cigarette, made by Indians,
wondering where my copy of the 'Old Man and the Sea' is, thinking of
Rilke's 'Letter to a Young Poet. The radio Brit just enunciated every
each syllable in funeral. I sneaked up to the powder room and thought of Federman's *Double or Nothing* and maybe driving non-stop to Kent State. I have a Smart Car and a jug of change for tolls.
@JP: don't smoke!
I'll try one more time and then let it go. There aren't many here at this site that have the full vision of the way the world is being scammed, robbed, murdered, destroyed in every way possible by the wealthy elite who are now in power. Many still suffer under the illusion that the standard political systems are not only legitimate, but that they have some influence on real events, that they can put this system right merely by voting for one or other of the total frauds running for office. They seem completely unaware of the freedoms closing down, of the ecological pressures which are gradually making the planet uninhabitable, of the insanity of the military-industrial complex and the financial thieves who are gaming the systems so that in the end, even they will be destroyed. You are one of the few people who not only know this but are thoroughly documenting the process. Whether those scoundrels are aware of you or not I cannot say but they surely will be delighted to shut you down, to harangue you to pieces in any way they can. But you are not yet in Guantanamo or sent to a foreign prison to be tortured out of sight. You are exhibiting their shit so we can smell it and and be nauseated. I am sure that is disturbing to them. Whether these people who are persecuting you are formally part of their process or merely so deluded that they are blind to reality I cannot say, but no doubt they are happy to make you miserable. Ignore them and do your good work. You have to respect their opinions to permit them to affect you. So don't respect their opinions. That's your most devastating weapon. Ignore them and keep giving us reasons to hate what is going on so maybe something can be done. I don't know what but you and the few others like you are our only hope.
There is no 'e' in argument except after me.

'E' has become @, no? ar gu m@nt. Maybe we should all count to 11.
Though the money is controlled by the r@action.
Rock me on the water, he thought.

prettty much what I said too, Jan Sand. Go back to writing what you know...with the caveat that you will get more readers with a good editor. Jan would probably be a great editor.
I'd also look up saturn smith for political writing on OS.
(Oh and back down on this post, admit you are wrong and then carry on.)
I am nobody's editor but my own and I make so many typos I wouldn't trust myself. Libby is quite capable on her own
Any dog or cat knows that the best thing to do with excrement is bury it and walk away without even a funeral.

"It all began just like that."

Louis-Ferinand Celine *
I'll try one more time and then let it go. There aren't many here at this site that have the full vision of the way the world is being scammed, robbed, murdered, destroyed in every way possible by the wealthy elite who are now in power. Many still suffer under the illusion that the standard political systems are not only legitimate, but that they have some influence on real events, that they can put this system right merely by voting for one or other of the total frauds running for office. They seem completely unaware of the freedoms closing down, of the ecological pressures which are gradually making the planet uninhabitable, of the insanity of the military-industrial complex and the financial thieves who are gaming the systems so that in the end, even they will be destroyed. You are one of the few people who not only know this but are thoroughly documenting the process. Whether those scoundrels are aware of you or not I cannot say but they surely will be delighted to shut you down, to harangue you to pieces in any way they can. But you are not yet in Guantanamo or sent to a foreign prison to be tortured out of sight. You are exhibiting their shit so we can smell it and and be nauseated. I am sure that is disturbing to them. Whether these people who are persecuting you are formally part of their process or merely so deluded that they are blind to reality I cannot say, but no doubt they are happy to make you miserable. Ignore them and do your good work. You have to respect their opinions to permit them to affect you. So don't respect their opinions. That's your most devastating weapon. Ignore them and keep giving us reasons to hate what is going on so maybe something can be done. I don't know what but you and the few others like you are our only hope.

Jan Sand
Not actually true jan Sand - dogs shit all over the place. i have seen it happen.
Some dogs lacking proper parenting and those mentally challenged, no doubt, may be vulnerable to a weak survival instinct, but with the proper predator ecology, these soon go extinct. Open spoor is a death threat.
Ask any coyote.
Oh and I guess I misinterpreted your words....sorry about that. You and Libby seem tight, and I suppose you won't take her to task for the title and following queasy substance of this post. You both gave up man for humanity, I suppose. It's a unique way to live. Only one of you expounds it well, at this point. Because, sorry, bearing witness (in absentia)to human rights abuse does not actually make you a victim - and blogging on this site will never make you a victim of it either.
Blogging about yourself as a victim , on purp[ose, with OS in the title is opening your blog to lots of criticism.
I'm interested to see where this goes...thanks, I guess, for the warning J.P. Hart. I guess i needed to really understand...yup.
It occurs to me you may have had experience with city dogs who only have pavement to contend with. I have somewhat similar problems when, in high bladder distress I often am tempted to use the most convenient fire hydrant. Nevertheless once the owner of a dog acquires a dog sized jackhammer burial can quickly be accomplished with minimum problems unless your dog hits an underground electric cable or a water pipe. Dogs get overexcited at these times and frequently tear up half the sidewalk. Best to walk quickly away withe the usual "Who me?" expression firmly on your face.
I cannot speak for Libby, but I have an aversion for alcohol and never imbibe.
thanks again for comments and reads!

I am going to address one commenter for now. I'm going to jump down to Jan. Jan I appreciate what you say. Thank you for what you credit me as doing. I am just trying to relay what I learn from the non-corporate alternate media that presents non-propaganda. For what it is worth, sadly. And apply my own perspective of it in terms of my own life experience and my other profound interest, psychology.

My main focus with all my blogging has been an alarming lack of empathy among the leaders of our government, the corporate mafia that has destroyed the economy and the politicians who were bribed into cronyism with them. A media that is also captured by the bastards of the universe and plays the citizenry. Encourages their consumer not citizen identity, and as for "morality" and "decency" gives it little respect or consideration.

For a long time I have been writing about a profound lack of empathy and ignorance and exceptionalism or national narcissism among our citizenry, especially heartbreakingly the supposed progressive, Democratic party under the powerful media branding and corporate support of Obama. A desensitization or a willful ignorance or simply ignorance from the vast disinformation served up on corporate media.

Pete Seeger said think globally, act locally. Right now I am acting locally. I got piled on by some malicious local cronies and I am speaking up about it. And I am integrating it to my ongoing analyses of the tragic levels of desensitization among the citizenry, in this case, local ones. Desensitized behavior willing to demonize easily and maliciously another human being or two or three. This is Exhibit A, this acting out, very close to home.

I have been stymied by the lack of interest or empathy of my countrymen for what is happening to people in other countries because of the grotesque level of corporate-agendaed militarization. Also, many citizens' lack of interest in the gutting of our constitutional rights, the torture program of Bush much of which undoubtedly continues under Obama especially at Bagram and other black ops prisons but also the cruelty and mass numbers of incarceration in our own country. And the austerity bullshit coming out of Congress about gutting federal social programs because the victims are being blamed for the economy which is so evil.

Again, on a local level here at open salon I got to experience some profound "desensitization" and a lack of empathy from fellow bloggers. Something that jumped the shark fast into something ugly which I considered cyber-bullying. It whammied me emotionally. I think it would have whammied most people. Even the people that perpetrated it had it happened to them.

And I also wondered about a seeming "learned helplessness" or even secondary participation among many of the rest of the community in encouraging the bullies and minimizing the bullying or those who simply ignored it which is also enabling. silence means consent.

Continuing on, the cyber-bullies after bullying in stage one then go on to blame the victim for their bullying. Here we are. Anti-empathy on a local level. What I have been focused on.

After reading so much politically and psychologically about the phenomenon of manifested group evil, it hit home. When you get a glimpse into that kind of heart of darkness you know it.

I am not equating bullying toward me or the bullying of others at open salon exactly to other famous and heinous events, of course. But I am not minimizing them either. I am calling out the phenomenon of group evil, in its many many manifestations, how it can get triggered and act out and people can be subsequently conscienceless of what happened later because of the supposed safety in numbers.

It is a social phenomenon. It is dangerous. And it needs to be called out when it happens or it will escalate.

I read about the Milgram experiment. only 4 out of 10 ordinary off the street people were unwilling to inflict debilitating shocks (or so they thought) on another stranger because another stranger wearing a white coat told them to. Authoritarian following. I say, thank God for the 4 out of 10 and I sure hope that ratio isn't shrinking and I hope they will keep their consciences and sense of decency in America awake!

Also, studied the Philip Zimbardo experiments at Stanford University having psychodrama happen with some students acting as prisoners and some as guards and the experiment had to be halted prematurely because of the incredible cruelty of the "guards" students who exhibited over the top insane cruelty to the prisoners in a short time.

We all have a good/evil continuum within us -- higher selves and lower selves. During the course of our years, and days, we fluctuate on this continuum. Hopefully we try to stay in the higher selves range as best we can, but we are all human.

Sometimes peer pressure is quite effective in coaxing us, permission giving us, to lower range lower self behavior. Group think is powerful and can be profoundly destructive.

I think most people have consciences. I think tragically some disordered people don't.

I read there are two basic emotions from which all emotions stem. love and fear. hate is a branch of fear.

I don't know what the nature of the fear is that fuels the hate behavior. But that is key.

Take care. That's more than enough, eh? best, libby

I'm doing my best. Nice to know I've got you hooked.
As heartfelt and articulate as the poster speaks freely, the nascent ascendancy of Congressman Ryan is a broader issue.
Not that cyber towel snaps don't sting, LLnyc.
Know that the RNC lurks. Know that the RNC and its paid surrogates could be juxtaposed into the 'girls as mean as the girls in a
Stephen King novel'.
I know. It is hard not to take it personally when ad hoc critique leads to circuitous drama. The old dilemma of what to do with creativity.
Nowadays I shower twice, never smelling of urine.
I continue to admire the profundity of much of what you say.
Vegetarian? Water-colorist? Baggy pants like Charlie Chaplin?
trig - you serious??

Sorry that you are, for lack, that thin skinned or whatever. Truly I'm trying to understand.
See, nothing else you, or anyone else on the interbutts say to me has any real effect.. on me at least.

i am sorry you are thin-skinned, hope we can work it out?


nothing anybody says to you online matters? you found your past 17 girlfriends on the internet, and have wanted to waterboard me - i call that effective! i say that these little black words on this white screen have an affect, alright.

on all of us.

and dust-up has never been an accurate description of the week-long bouts of laughing and popcorn-eating while someone on here is injured. christ, i had a comment at my blog that i took down the other day, that made me realize that some of the seemingly best among us havent figured anything out in 4 years.

i dont know why bullying even has its own special word - seems to me plain old "cruelty" covers it all well enough. and there is a definite pack mentality, and i have NEVER EVER ONCE seen the pack break up. the pack is a boxed set.

you are not a pack-animal, but dont go around lying just cause you dont like what is said - the internet is very effective, thats why so many, including your brother, have been chased off. its why your brother got so mad at me for saying something he didnt like - because these words all hold weight.

if they didnt, none of us would be here. just, lets be honest about that, please.
Good grief.

There is plenty of empathy here at OS.

This whole mess started due to empathy and support for a person who was hit out of the blue with personalized anti-Semitic evil...and I do use the word evil given the horrors thru the centuries that anti-Semitism has wrought. The perpetrator then posted two pieces of classical anti-Semitic awfulness, and there was empathy, outrage and calls for justice from people here.

There was also empathy for people here who had been scammed by collections of alters.

People on the sidelines who didn't understand the origins of the 'dust-up' tossed in their own two cents and were hurt and indignant that their uninformed opinions were not admired.

And there's you, who look to be attempting to get all that righteous and legitimate empathy and support for yourself, for your hurt feelings - hurt feelings that you brought on yourself by jumping into the fray and going on and on in an almost incoherent way...about YOURSELF.

There isn't much empathy here for drama queens...except from other drama queens.

If you want to rage on about all the REAL injustices of the world, that's great. If you want to rage on about how the whirlwinds of words and indignation you create about yourself, then not so much.

Your hysterical approach tends to diminish the impact of your writings about real injustices.
Lib, life is reliant on who carries the dirt in the bucket and who fills the bucket with water. You've expressed yourself and used analogies you felt "best" described your own feelings. I used to tell my aspiring artists, when I gave private lessons in my home, who would state "I'm just not gifted in art but I want to learn." BS. Creativness is not a gift, it's a love for the format in which you are being creative in. And if you're happy with the end result of that expression that's what most important, be it in writing, or fine art or handing out BS. Be happy, there will always be someone that will enjoy what you've created as much as you.

With that being said, one of the things that baffles me the most is that there are people here that actually" save" comments, posts and PM's for......? Little bit of ASPD running amok here?

*off to join Tink in thorn bushes for Sunday brunch.

~R for standing by your convictions dispite objections.
Our Trig: "Call it group think I suppose... we attract to people that think similarly. That said, I speak for myself."

Well said. I've always smiled silently on the other side of my screen, staring in wonderment as you are, as to why one can't simply agree with a thought, or concept, without being considered to be part of a posse, clique or whatever other names are given to those with likened thoughts here. We do tend to align ourselves with those having the same interests offline so I would have to take into consideration that we'd do the same online. Thanks for this.
"Taking issue with someone over something is one thing but trying to turn someone into an instant laughingstock is straight out of high school "cooties" time."

Your words, Libby. Your exact words! Your HOLLOW words.

If you believed or REALLY stood up for what you are espousing you'd have taken the friends, allies, fuck muppets and alts of friends that leveled ad hominem attacks against me 6 TIMES in this self same post, not to mention two other posts (nods to Fernsey).

The same could and should be said about your denigration of the victims of rape and atrocities by equating the fluffy crap that goes on here to their REAL suffering.

I'm not whining or playing victim here by mentioning this because that would mean I give a shit about your "attack" friends.

What I AM doing is pointing out the CLEAR hypocrisy of both your post AND your actions.
From just the point of view of language, nothing more, the narrow minded insistence that the designation "rape" can only convey brutal criminal sexual assault does not stand up to history. As a kid back in the 1930's the Japanese ferocious brutal assault of a Chinese city was generally labeled "the rape of Nanking". The term is acceptably generalized and does not demean those victims of actual sexual assault.

From the online dictionary:

1    [reyp] Show IPA noun, verb, raped, rap·ing.
the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.
statutory rape.
an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
Archaic . the act of seizing and carrying off by force.
verb (used with object)
to force to have sexual intercourse.
to plunder (a place); despoil.
to seize, take, or carry off by force.
Jan, you know I adore your ass, but that is disingenuous, at best.

The comparison of rape and OS is wrong & inappropriate and you know it. Stop making excuses for Libby.
on my way to work so I won't get back for a while, but I see there is serious feelings here. Did want to note one thing in particular, though.

Safe Bet Amy --

At 11:30am you comment to Jan below:

"The comparison of rape and OS is wrong & inappropriate and you know it. Stop making excuses for Libby."

but at 9:20am today you made this comment on Dianne S-L's blog:

"If I want to watch a video on somebody's post I will. I do not, however, like it forced upon me. Please stop fomenting aural rape!"

Quite the double standard.

@ Libby:

Should I have used that word to describe Diane's forced listening to her stupid ass videos? Nope. I shouldn't have. I therefore apologize to all rape survivors (including myself) for doing so.

I DO find it freakin hilarious that you and your ass kissing, sycophantic meme minions actually spent time to find that, for the sole purpose of propagating the exact thing you are ranting (at GREAT length) about.

Now, as soon as YOU apologize as well, how about addressing your hypocrisy???? (or will you just skip over all of it AGAIN???)
I think Myriad said it best. You may have some good & interesting points, Libby but I just don't have the time to weed them out. And I've lost a lot of respect just in the fact that you are stirring it up again, when all seemed to be finally settling down.
Hi Libby, I tried to wade through here, but sorry...too much, too many, all thrown in together.
My comment, my wonder, comes from Jan's comments:
How exactly is Libby and a few others our only hope?
I ask seriously.
I haven't read anything anywhere that offers solution and ways forward to a better future than the annihilation you both seem certain is around the corner.
Where is the hope? The answers/solutions that lead to hope, in what Libby writes? The hope that is linked to a concrete pattern of action that if undertaken, gives us a better way to go forward?
I've only read in Libby's posts (the few I've read, "few" being the number, not "few" being how little) what and who is entirely, evilly wrong in her opinion, and what kind of behavior dysfunction it's all linked to, nothing else.
How is that "our only hope"?
I'd rather read about ideas and plans for solutions, thoughtful plans of action, that one can take and DO something with, instead of endless pointing at what is I keep reading all the confusing links to how everything and everyone who is evil is all connected -- alcoholic, borderline, no doubt, too (that, I actually wouldn't be surprised at all to have concrete evidence of, globally)!!
I seriously ask this question -- what can the humans of our planet actually DO going forward? Enough already with how horrible it all is with a vague sentence of how Libby and a few others are our only hope -- as I haven't found one speck of hope in Libby's posts, they are all just depressing and blaming, in my opinion, with no hope at all.

I don't write that as an attack on Libby at all, I truly only find despair when I read her posts.
Where, again, is there 'hope' for us all here?

I hope you never let that scourge bully you into any apology. She compared the most benign spam fighting insurgence to violent episodes of gay bashing. She is batshit and she is relentess in her batshit. She/he/what is a total hypocrite and liar and a consummate truth twister.
It seems that some are scared of her, or they feel bound to be polite to her because she plays the queer card. If she didn't keep reminding everyone about her lesbianism she'd be utterly held in contempt here . Alas, must be nice to this alternate lifestyle bully maniac. I don't get it but there it is.
She never offers anything of value . It's gross to witness. She learned a new word, "sycophant" and expect her to batshit that word all over this place for months on end.
what are we (yes we because i include my own stupid self in this) all doing over here on this post? what does THAT say about us all when we could be reading this or this or this or countless other fine posts.

nobody is changing anybody elses mind here dontchaknow.
v squared, your friend sounds like the entire state of Oregon....I've been gardening... : )
hey life is a darwinian survival of the fittest kinda thing.
as a microcosm of brilliant minds,
os reflects it accurately.

the African Americans have been our Spiritual Guide for
over a century now. their music, their lingo,
cannot help but leak into the white community,
especially the children.

they got a saying.
"it's all good"...

it becalms a situation.

it IS all good, goddamit, even the controversy.

no pain no gain say the exercise freakazoids.

they seem to be all white, by the way.

ok dont mean to get silly.

this is gonna blow over and make us stronger
cuz that is what OS is...a slaughter bench, a place of
blood guts and spirit.

i die in order to live. jesus said that, or he shoulda.
James, the entire state of whitey-ass Oregon says, "It's all good."
I thought the hippie tribe invented that one...after they come in from the garden...
: )

(...and yes, I generalize wildly about the 'entire state of Oregon.' ....but probably not "wildly" if I think about it for a few...)
v squared: ...except in Oregon many leave out the Armageddon part and are still hangin' with the "drop out" part, the "It's all good" part, the "evil Babylon" part...
My main point was and is that EVERY human being on the planet is sacred (even me) and that we must not let fervent cronyism eclipse that recognition.


YOUR cronies personally attack me 6 times and YOUR response? A 7th attack.

That is hypocrisy. Pure and simple.

Get off your high horse, apologize and stop being a hypocrite.
Libby, I am sorry for using this also, but as I said in Eljekars blog this has gone so far. So I am sharing my comment in here also, and I think that we all must rise above this circle of blaming/insulting and so many more. I have told you once before that your work and your analysis has the quality of work that I as a historian had in my university, where I have learned to have the knowledge of many opinions, know the facts, know the context and reach to a conclusion. So I am sharing this here also, cause to me being an adult comes with some logic and responsibility.

'''About your issue for the last days I am searching, and I have found that when adults are involved is called cyberstalking, and between the features of this criminal behaviour, one can find these...

"...A number of key factors have been identified:

1- False accusations. Many cyberstalkers try to damage the reputation of their victim and turn other people against them. They post false information about them on websites. They may set up their own websites, blogs or user pages for this purpose. They post allegations about the victim to newsgroups, chat rooms or other sites that allow public contributions, such as Wikipedia or

2-Attempts to gather information about the victim. Cyberstalkers may approach their victim's friends, family and work colleagues to obtain personal information. They may advertise for information on the Internet, or hire a private detective.

3-Monitoring their target's online activities and attempting to trace their IP address in an effort to gather more information about their victims.

4-Encouraging others to harass the victim. Many cyberstalkers try to involve third parties in the harassment. They may claim the victim has harmed the stalker or his/her family in some way, or may post the victim's name and telephone number in order to encourage others to join the pursuit.

5-False victimization. The cyberstalker will claim that the victim is harassing him/her. Bocij writes that this phenomenon has been noted in a number of well-known cases.

6-Attacks on data and equipment. They may try to damage the victim's computer by sending viruses...."

And there are laws about it I must tell you, imagine if one individual can find the IΡ of someone in here, only makes one imagine what the authorities can do..To be honest it doesn't take a law degree from anyone in here to know our rights. '''''

Be well, and I want to let you know that there is a 5th Gallery Challenge made by Nilesite, check it out!!!!
Libby, I left out what I actually meant to say...

"...that your work and your political analysis..''

And to be honest I was amazed that Aim, although never knew me, never even have commented on any of my works, took the time to stand by me, when being called a Nazi, and the amazing thing is that she did that without being friends, or anything.

I mean, this is what I want to mean, and I think this is the wish we all have in here, that as individuals we can not stand when we witnessing wrong to be made..but at least some of us we do not insult the others..

I think that we all have the right to disagree, but since most of us have children, fighting like children, when we can solve our differences with dialoque, is something that I can not do. True life is so difficult, and believe me, if online life starts to be difficult as well...then, I am out of words.

I believe that we all in here can create a very unique and quality environment, each with his/her talent.

And thank you Aim for you being there for me, even not knowing me, and thank you Libby, for giving me the right to have this long comment in your blog, and for giving to all of us a theme issue on which one can think and learn, even through the comment thread.
Stuart, thanks for stopping by. Agree re demonization and how it shuts down communication. It is repellant.

Stathi, thanks for your validation. The minimization of cruel behavior by a significant number of people on os and a wider circle entertained by it is depressing. Joking that the "dust-up" this time is over -- hah hah -- is serious minimization. Thanks for stopping by. best, libby xxx

Gerald, thanks! I know, fasten one's seat belts. Victims of bullies are supposed to take the abuse and STFU, not protest. They have the right to leave or shut up and endure the disdain, not DARE talk back. Heaps of blame for being a cry-baby and the cause of the abuse escalate. The group suddenly feels persecuted by the one or two or three people they piled on. They don't get how whammying it is to see so many people spewing malice or mockery at the same time. It is quite breath-taking and dizzying. Awe-full!

Lew, thanks for your support here! I really appreciate you empathizing with and listening to me as I express my feelings and my response to something I felt was traumatic. Drama queen is the label from some for responding to something intense and ugly. Really? When you demonize someone you "thing" them. To you they are a second class citizen whose sensibility, whose being deserves no respect. God help them if they say ouch. But more indignation and defensiveness from the victimizers. best, libby

thanks, jmac! so well said:

"For the most part I have no time or energy to engage with malicious manipulative emotionally broken people. I refuse to play their game or any game at all ..."

Thanks, Rudy. Appreciate that VERY much!

Trudie!!! Thanks so much for your support!!!

Thanks, Fernsy, appreciate your support!

Thanks sky for the validation, though your initial speculation not cool.

Jan! I feel really honored by your words! Thank you for putting it all the way you have. My voice is unique to me and one of many voices here and we all contribute in our own ways with our own values and priorities and life experiences. I am so glad you have a voice I can relate to and vice versa. We as ordinary citizens need to take what is happening in our world seriously and push back for the future and for our own spiritual health!

I have only skimmed this thread since I had two long work shifts. I am alarmed at the rage and the insults flying. I expected some people would come at me but not each other.

Alison, thanks for your kindness about my blogging. I didn't write this to stir up a shitstorm. I did it for my own self-respect. I felt ambushed by a maliciousness and a subgroup callousness that was stunning to me. I do not want to be afraid to post here with a voice that has not been as free as the one I have been posting with so I decided to use that voice once again. I think that there is a deafness and a blindness of a group of people who gang up on one or two individuals at a time and encourage more and more cronies to partake of the isolating and the scapegoating and the mocking of that individual. I did nothing to deserve that or is getting mad at people who are insulting not legitimate enough to protest without a gang-type pile on?

As I said above, I used the word "rape" for effect because the emotional impact of a group of people attacking one's character is profound. PROFOUND! To accuse me of disrespecting victims of physical rape is not fair. I do believe that group character assassination is a kind of rape! I am sorry you yourself were a victim of such brutality!!! I appreciate you disclosing that. "You are not a victim!" ? You don't know what I am and I don't want to be a victim. I was a victim and then I wrote this blog above as a SURVIVOR and yes, I know the difference!!!!

Was I supposed to leave the website or bow my head and wait for the next ambush? I must have been really getting too uppity in my blogging. Don't read me. Live and let live. It's a big website!

grif, more bullying. more mockery. eat shit and smile, that is what a victim of bullying is supposed to do? that is their recourse? you reveal more about yourself in your comment than about me.

Thoth, appreciate your support and your sensibility. But as I said above, I needed to write the blog I did to shift from victim to survivor. If I don't get the compassion of the bullies, no surprise but I am exercising my right at os to speak and assert my perspective.

JP Hart, WTF?????

daisyjane, what a relief reading your comment about cruelty. thank you!!!

ThroughMyEyes, thanks! Re my convictions. I contend shaming a victim is evil. Shaming a victim for protesting the shaming is further evil. People who can't take responsibility for their own lousy behavior up the ante when called out on it.

Stathi what a pleasure ending with your comment. Thank you for your fix on reality! And your support!!! I'm really glad i wrote the blog. I communicated my message about a level of cruelty that I have not heard anyone cop to even a molecule's worth. So it goes. best, libby
Dianne! Thanks! Worth a 1000 words! best, libby
ps if one person pulls back from bullying or pulls back from enabling and rewarding a bully, enduring the denial bullshit avalanche was totally worth it! libby
It is interesting to see how responders reveal their characters by how they respond, with vitriolic hate and insults, or with compassion, understanding, and dedication to improving interpersonal and community relationships.
I've found there are three choices I can make. Run. Hide. Fight. It all depends, of course, on circumstances. The "Run" category is really just another means of walking away from fruitless dustups which waste time and energy which could be spent on more pleasant things known to produce positive results.
hypocrites and attention whores seem to be ruling the site now. and yes, i am counting you and all the others writing about this who were not directly involved in that count.

oh, and before i forget. stop attacking amy just because she has the guts to call people out for their bullshit.
Cyber-Bully Gang Rape is wrong.

Just so you know.

It's your blog, your voice, but it's hysterical & it's wrong.
And by the way, Libby; fuck you. Is that "cyber-rape" or just a free and frank exchange of views? My money is on the latter, but no doubt you have a way to twist it into some cheapened equivalent to real-life rape. You are a truly abhorrent person.
I too had difficulty getting through your tediously long post. I tried, well kinda, I scanned the last third due to a lack of interest and a general opinion that your logic doesn't track with me. But opinions are like a$$ holes ya know.

Firstly, I have trouble with the casual throwing about of words like gang rape and nazi. I prefer t0 only use them in the context in which they are meant to be used and not some colloquial or watered down interpretation. I feel this devalues the word, IMO. Such as, I don't call my boyfriend a "spelling nazi" even though he can and will correct my spelling until the day one of us dies. And therefore feel it is very sensationalistic of you to use gang rape in your title. Clearly you are a seasoned drama queen. Or perhaps I'm just too normal and issue free.

And the point of deleting trig's comment(s) was exactly what??

Small Business Administration
Safe Bet Amy
I guess I would be one of the non-participants; or at least I try to be. Not that I don't sympathize though; I try to go by the don't feed the trolls rule. When I see someone that is looking for an argument I try to address the issues only politely and briefly. If that doesn't work I just ignore it.

Which is what I've been doing for most of the "dust-ups" that have been going on here; I don't even read them usually so I don't know what brought this about.

One thing that might be worth trying is take a break if it helps or just ignoring those that you have problems with. I don't know if it will work but that's the best I can come up with.

Best of luck what ever you try to do.