Lisa Solod

Lisa Solod
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Savannah, Georgia, USA
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January 03
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Writer, Mother, Mother, Writer Visit me at www.lisasolod.com

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MARCH 19, 2009 12:41PM

The New American Witch Hunt: It's Getting Scary Out There

Rate: 35 Flag

First,  there was Senator Charles Grassley’s not-so-funny suggestion that the heads of A.I.G. should commit public suicide, and then  in yesterday’s Senate hearing Edward Liddy, the Chairman of A.I.G. detailed the numerous death threats the employees of the company had been getting,  some of them quite horrific.  Senator Barney Frank asked for the names of those employees getting bonuses, which Liddy offered if there could be assurances of confidentiality which Frank denied; and this morning on the Bill Press show, angry listeners called in over and over demanding those names be made public.

 

Press, never my favorite talk show host, made the most reasonable counter argument, that the callers anger was somewhat misdirected and that revealing the names would do no one any good and the employees much harm, a sentiment with which I am in complete agreement.

 

After all, what are we, the American public going to do?  Go to their houses and burn something on their lawns?  Tar and feather them? Harass their children?  Make prank phone calls?

These men and women took bonuses, yes.  But are they criminals?  No.  And what good does it do to name names?  Doesn’t just that phrase “naming names” strike fear in the hearts of those of us who remember its other use not that long ago?  Are our memories so short that we really don’t get it?

 

The employees of A.I.G. may be lazy, immoral, or just plain greedy.  But the people who deserve our wrath are not unknown to us.

 

Hank Paulson is very known to us.  He and his boss, our former President George W. Bush are first and foremost the two who rushed us into the largest amount of bailout money to A.I.G. in the first place, when, panicked, they panicked Congress, and by extrapolation, us, into bailing out the giant corporation on the fly—with no conditions and no assurances.  We handed them a gift and that’s that.

  

When you give someone a gift they can do whatever the hell they want with it.

 

Later, we gave them another gift.  And then another.

 

Our outrage is misplaced.  Belated.  After the fact.  OUR outrage should be at Paulson, Bush, Bernanke, the Congress, Geithner, and now, I am afraid, also at  President Obama.

 

But not at the poor shlubs at A.I.G. who got the bonuses.  A witch hunt and an attempt to out the people who took those bonuses is a waste of time and energy and diverts attention from the real problem.  WHY are we handing money to companies without accounting for where that money goes and to whom it goes in the first place?.  Billions of dollars went to A.I.G. who then diverted some millions of it some of its employees.  But  what about the billions that went to now out of business banks and foreign investment companies?  And what about a company who was making those kinds of deals in the first place when it was not its place to be doing that sort of thing?  A company that not only put its own future in jeopardy but the future of dozens of other companies as well as the financial well being of an entire country?

 Senator Joseph McCarthy almost brought our country down searching for a Red Menace that didn’t exist.  Let’s not divert ourselves looking for little bad guys in the suburbs when we know where the real villians reside.

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This is truly scary. This is a witch hunt. If the feds can break a contract any time they feel like it, tax only people they are pissed at and HAND out their names? This is like how Pontius Pilate governed for chrissakes. This is truly Bread and Circus; keep the populace looking in one direction while sleight of hand happens in the other. rated.
You're absolutely right, Lisa. Once the blood lust for one group is exhausted they always come looking for another.

rated
I think the reasoning behind those of us in the give-up-the-names crew is deterrent factor--future scenarios where employees hold the country at the end of an economic gun chanting, "Do it or else."

However, I agree that, yet again, the media is stoking misdirected fires. It's distraction, always distraction. Well said.
I oppose death threats and I think that a Senator making them is truly irresponsible. Having said that, if I were in NYC, I'd be picketing for them to return the money. And, remember that these people are NOT middle class, and they are the ones who failed miserably at their job, forcing us to lose our jobs and homes, and failure does not merit a bonus. Furthermore, the government feels fine about forcing union members to renegotiate contracts, so why not derivative traders?
Good for you on the EP Lisa, and good to see a post, been a while.
The "financial bailout" was the last big ripoff by the last administration. Why it continues into the new admin. I don't know and good point. And although I do not think that a single one of them should get bonus's paid for from the tax rolls (if they made a profit then sure, pass out bonuses) I would agree that it is in fact a "witch hunt" to try to call out the names of those receiving.
I agree that this rage at employees is scary and misdirected, but at the same time, AIG has been doing this for months, and the average "screw up" bonus is almost $1 million.

The situation does create the chance a satisfactory resolution. Congress could offer AIG directors and employees a choice: Those who give the full money back remain anonymous, those who don't take their chances with the mob.
I actually think popping a couple of bankers would give them a whole new outlook on life: mainly looking over their shoulders. Or at least keep them from laughing so loudly at us.

And don't confuse lawful with moral when it comes to criminality. Witch burning was once lawful - but still a criminal act.

And if I give you money to pay your rent and you decide to use it on a drunken binge, think I won't be pissed?

The blame lies with everyone who's more interested in preserving our system than preserving people (yes, the liars equate the two, I know) - which is about 95% of this country.
Well, I agree that death threats are bad. But, that bailout money wasn't a gift. We the people basically bought the company, in essence.

As for contracts, um, contracts are broken ALL THE TIME. You know when you sign that waver before you do some semi-dangerous sport? Well, that waiver means absolutely nothing in a court of law if negligence is discovered.

The company has been sold and is, frankly, dead in the water anyway. That's an excellent reason to renegotiate contracts although a reason isn't really needed. A "good job" was certainly not done. Bonuses should be withheld.

And are these people criminals? There are two kinds of criminals. Those who break the written law. And those who break every moral and ethical code that they can. I do, indeed, think of these people as criminals. The bonuses are going, not to the peons in the company, but mostly to the major contributors who actually helped move along the crisis we now have. I think they should be stripped of their jobs, their bonuses and their severance frankly. But then, that's just me.

I don't agree with death threats AT ALL. But do the American people have a right to be angry at their behavior?

Yes. Yes, they do.
Everybody in my business, and I am in this business, knew the AIG ex comp package was on the borderline of legality for years. I have close friends in ex comp who say they still can't figure it out.

It resulted in a the company driven to take risks far beyond what was and is acceptable for an "insurance" based company. The investigations need to be into it. Legislation and regulation is unquestionably called for.

And you cannot forget, I believe, Mr. Gram and his co-horts who broke down the fundamental financial system that protected the country from this sort of disaster since the depression--and the party that let him get away with it.

Then there is one other in my book: the faux "liberals" who in '00 and '04 defaulted from our political system at time when it was obvious realty took precidence over their tired "anti-politics" ideology, and let this country fall to the absolute bottom.

I'm not crazy about the bandwagon that has developed either, but it is systemic change that needs to be the ultimate focus.
I'm sorry, but didn't the bonuses in question go to employees in AIG's Financial Products division, the unit primarily responsible for the meltdown that led to a federal bailout of the company? The reason those individual's names should be made public has nothing to do with harassment, intimidation, threats, etc. It has to do with seeking truth and justice. It's not about the bonuses. It's about the negligence. It's about ensuring this never happens again. They need to answer for themselves – as do all criminal suspects are under our legal system. Ignorance of the consequences of one's actions and ignorance of the law does not and should not protect anyone. Does it protect the dealer down the block who didn't know selling crack to pay for his grandmother's medical bills was illegal? No. Can you go down to the county courthouse and find out his name? Yes. Enough of the justified double standards.
You're right. On the other hand, itsn't this a natural aftermath of a bailout that had no rules, no limits, no guidelines, engineered and passed totally by Republicans? I, for one, wrote to every single senator, all 100 of them, begging them NOT to hand out taxpayer money to corrupt criminals who created this financial chaos in the first place. Did you?!!!

Now, especially since the TARP funds did nothing to improve the economy....remember, all these corporations begged for money because they "needed it so badly".....and the economy has only worsened, isn't it a natural reaction to become furiously angry over corporations and large banks who care for no one but themselves and their own wallets when they turn around and hand out money to failures?!!! It might be legal but it's also UNPRINCIPLED, UNETHICAL, and IMMORAL!!!!! (aren't all those Republican CEOs from the "family values" party? The "Christian" party? The absurdly named "pro-life" party?) Yet, when it comes to jamming money into their own pockets, they're actually surprised to receive death threats?!!

This is the nation of the gun, a huge, bullying military, a brutal, torturing CIA, a gigantic weapons industry, all staunchly supported by corporate America....and now the poor dears are getting death threats? At least some Americans are still alive enough to create some resistance!!

And although I do not advocate violence and am totally non-violent myself, yeah, it's Paulson and Bush who should be strung up from the nearest lamp post!!.... or tried for high treason, for deliberately looting the U.S. Treasury (as I wrote to all 100 senators!).......we'll see about that.....still plenty of time for that.....
The biggest distraction is to get people to pay attention to AIG, and not who they are giving the money to, which is Goldman Sachs, who created the toxic assets, sold them as safe, the then bought insurance from AIG which bankruped AIG because Goldman new the assests were riskier than they were selling them as. That is outright fraud, because it involves a material mistatement.
Without condoning violence and while agreeing that the blame belongs to many people, I think it is obscene for AIG execs to accept even a $1 bonus.

I hope you'll look at my new post "(AIG and Al-Qaeda Both Begin with A (I'm just saying ...)" and perhaps comment.
Witch hunt is right. The people are mad, but you are right...just like in the torturing of Iraqis....the little guys go down, and the big guys who okayed the whole thing...Bush and the Joint Chiefs or CIA go FREE. This is not justice.
This all makes me wonder what else is happening while the media, and everyone else who is "outraged" is busy focusing on this? What's going on in the back rooms NOW?

You are so right!
I wish the outrage would have been earlier. Kevin Philips wrote about this a couple of years ago, and no one picked up. Others mentioned the disparities and greed. We didn't heed it. Outrage is due all, including the suburban bonus-grabbers. They have become symbols of our greed culture, and I have no problem, short of the stupid hari kari references, being mad at them.
I'm not looking for a head on a stick, but I'm not about to feel good about giving "retention bonuses" to the very department that was responsible for helping to create the very meltdown that they are being rewarded for creating. It was their department that created ways to insure the very derivatives that were so toxic. Had they created ways to backed these derivatives, no one could have traded them, so they are more than just a little to blame, they are paramount to the cause of the problem.
The bonuses were supposed to be retention bonuses. 54 of them have left AIG and I expect many more to follow. That is one hot kitchen right now. Not much retention there. How do you deserve a bonus in you are not retained?
That said, I do agree that there is more than enough blame to go around, but still I feel like I've been flim-flammed by one corporate group after another my whole life.
I am not looking for witches or scape goats, but I am looking to be informed!

Let us not forget that Treasury Secretary Paulson and former Treasury Secretary Bob Rubin both served as top executives at Goldman Sachs --and now they are going to appoint Lewis Alexander from Citigroup to Treasury! I think it is very important to know just who it is that I do NOT want to be further rewarded (appointed) for failure.

The media push back against outrage over AIG bonuses is an failed attempt to make us, the public, feel small so that we will disregard the obvious! It is obvious that greed has grown beyond the boundaries of government regulation and management; yet, the pushback would urge the public to follow that the government will somehow keep everything under control. This is short sighted if not blind.

All of these executives (AIG, Goldman Sachs, and the Treasury Secretaries) are manipulating the world economy today! Rigid thinking and unwillingness to understand that our economy is iglobal, integrated like a small village, with a mutual "butterfly effect" (the mutual influence of everyone on everyone) will only exacerbate the crisis.

Let us NOT ignore $165 million butterflies!
Look, I don't think the people in the companies should ETHICALLY accept the bonuses, either. Nor should AIG pay out those bonuses from OUR money. But neither Paulson nor anyone else in our government put any kibosh on AIG doing so with that money. They gave AIG the money with NO STRINGS attached. AIG had every right to honor the contracts (as stupid and unethical as they might have been, and as much as we hate them) they made with their workers with whatever money they had or got. The problem is that we are mad at AIG (and yes we should be, just like we should be mad at Merril and Bear Stearns and all the rest) as a WHOLE entity but we want the names of the individual workers as if we can do something about them when we really can't and should not. It is the larger corporate culture of greed and handing out such ridiculous contracts that we need to rally against. We need to educate ourselves against the kinds of board of directors who sit in offices and run companies like this ultimately into the ground, who have no sense of what it means to branch out into things for which the company has no head for--just to try and make a fast dollar when it looks good. If you listen to the anger from the men and women who want to name names (and those of you here who want those names: what for?) it truly scares me. What is the good of that? What is the reason? What the purpose?

That is only, as I said above, misdirection. OUR anger is being misdrected so it isn't be directed at those it should be directed against.

Helloooooo! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. Remember that sleight of hand???
You make many good points. It is a witch hunt and it shouldn't be. Plus, I agree, we already know who should be made to pay for this mess.

But I'm not sure the AIG execs "didn't do anything illegal." That's yet to be proven. I'd like them investigated, along with all top management of all companies and banks and car makers taking bailout money.

How did their companies and institutions get into such horrendous financial shape? How could they in good conscience go on taking obscenly large bonuses while laying off employees and knowing their books were in the red?

Those at the top get the big bonuses because they're expected to produce big profits, not crash their companies. They're also supposed to be held accountable. I'd like to see that happen, but not in a witch hunt.
i think if you park kids in an unattended candy store, you shouldn't be surprised if they eat. if the structure of society allows theft, no amount of ethics classes will stop it.

saying "he shouldn't have done it" is just smarmy hypocrisy when you agree to put in people in continuing temptation, when you admire 'getting rich', when you demand secrecy and freedom that makes 'financial engineering' possible.

real ethical behavior is to allow people to use the system they are in, and if you don't like the results- change the system.
I'm not going to express an opinion about the bonuses in this comment, but just wanted to add that when I was a student in a public university some years ago, the local newspaper was in the habit of printing the names and salaries of the highest-paid people at the university; it was public information. In my job now at a different public university, any member of the public can stop in at a particular office and find out my annual salary. I might prefer it otherwise, but I'm paid by the state, and that's just the way it is. Is AIG similar enough to my employer for a comparable rule to hold, so that anyone could find out who is paid how much? I don't know, but it's certainly not out of the bounds of reasonableness to think so.
Lisa, I read this and had an emotional response, but now, I will go off in a corner and think what I really want to comment on this. Rated and well written and reasoned.
Lisa, you asked (and those of you here who want those names: what for?) it truly scares me. What is the good of that? What is the reason? What the purpose?

Reading through the posts here the answer seems apparent: to reveal "the man behind the curtain."

How better will we recognize these executives when they will soon be "appointed" to public positions but alongside their greed and personal movtivation.
I make a final point here: Remember Abu Ghraib and Lynndie England? She was merely the face of a terrible crime that was the crime of many and first and foremost the crime of her superiors: George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld. If we post and make public all the names of those who took bonuses at AIG then we post and make public all the names of those who took bonuses at Merrill and Citi and Bank of America and..... the list goes on and on and on, and what else gets done? When does the real work of reforming the system get done? What we need to do is put it into place reforms that assure that corporations are NEVER again too big to fail so that we, the American tax payers must shore them up at our expense. What we must do is make sure that these companies DO NOT ANY LONGER make contributions to our congress people so that they are in the pockets of these corporations and thus indebted to them. What we must make sure is that due diligence is done before any aid is given in the near or far future. What we need to make sure is that the corporate culture is dismantled in such a way that executives no longer make hundreds of times the salaries that their workers do and no longer receive bonuses when companies fail. And that what we learn from all this is that the current system does not work, has not worked for a long time, and has hugely contributed to the failure of free market capitalism and the crippling of the American economy. However, I stand by my post that the release of several dozen names of executives from one h company is a witch hunt to make us feel better, as if we are doing something--when in essence we are just distracting ourselves from the real and huge problem(s) at hand.

And to speak to Harry the Homeless specifically: Yes if you give a friend money for rent and he spends it on drink, it is a pisser. And if you hand a guy money on the street for food and he walks into a liquor store that's a pisser, too. But, on the other hand, it's his money. . . You always have the option to buy him a sandwich instead. Or, to pay the rent directly to the landlord. In our case, we gave AIG the money with no strings attached. That was our bad.
I don't disagree that it was folly to give them money like we did. But giving money irresponsibly does not excuse spending it irresponsibly. It's sort of a false parsing to say they could do with it as they wanted as if that were also the expectation.

It's like janie said, all individuals are accountable. People are only in positions of power because we allow them to be. So to call out the gang in thieves in charge is to also call us out as a country as a whole, no?
But are they criminals? No

A few here have already mentioned it, but there's some rumblings that the men and women of AIGFP ARE criminals in the legal sense of the word. Some talking heads are preaching for criminal investigations.

Sure, AIGFP didn't start the fire, but they sure as hell dumped napalm into it. Folks like me who are suffering as a consequence would like to see something done. Shoot, just one of those bonuses would pay off all my debts, my parent's debts, my sister's debts and still leave me comfortable.
This AIG debacle is getting more and more ridiculous by the minute. Today we have peter blaming paul and paul blaming joe and joe blaming shirley and it seems we might all be falling for the old "bait and switch".
Let me understand...the employees at AIG have already received the bonuses under one set of tax laws and exemptions put in place and voted on by our congress. In other words, given the O-K. After receiving the money under a KNOWN tax liability they will be taxed under a NEW tax liability they were unaware of when the accepted the bonus check. How can this be legal....and how can our government go back and blame the people that received the money instead of BEING ACCOUNTABLE and man-ing up about who put what where in the stimulus and who signed it. The anger is misplaced for sure.........the idiots who now run this place are A (arrogant) I (incompetent) G (goons). If I were an employee at AIG and made a decision to stay with the company instead of bolting immediately and promised compensation I would be finding a lawyer ASAP.
Lisa,

I think you have completly overlooked the power of the prank call. What if everybody who was ticked off actually called and asked if their refrigerator was still running?
You are right. The anger is misplaced. We have let our government get into the lazy habit of throwing big money at things with no accountability. I am remembering unaccounted funds disappearing in Iraq and then New Orleans. We need to be holding our respresentatives responsible for accounting for our money and determining how they are going to account for it before they give it away.
conflicted about this one but i'm in a financial panic and triggered easily by people with money. of course i don't believe in witch hunts and threatening individual people. that is very dangerous. and i agree about the gifts. they should not have been gifts. but something that meant that they had to keep strict track of how they were and are spening that money. this is all nuts. its just that AIG has given us the finger more than the others with the hugely expensive "retreat" and then this. bonuses for doing a terrible job and the company failing? i'm sure i'm wrong. it's just how i feel right now. again, don't want names named or people hunted down. bad badb ad. but do want everyone responsible on the macro level to be held responsible.
I agree Lisa -- this is a systemic problem.

My point is that if we want to change the system, we will have to refine our definitions of globalization, integral systems, and mutual responsibility by revealing why the relationships are not working.

WE are responsible to examine and scrutinize, and instead of blaming “them” we should blame ourselves for our inability to bring the scrutiny forward and make our voices heard.

Did I forget to say THANK YOU for your post :)
It is through contradiction, blogging it out, the solution will emerge.
this kind of scapegoating frightens me. I know too many historical incidents where people died. rated.
Now, Obama and his administration better face up to the people's distrust of everyone of those guys.
Stellaa
March 19, 2009 01:36 PM

How about the distrust of our politicians who sat back and watched all this happen while raking in money frrom these same corprorations?
This naming name stuff is McCarthyism at it's finest.
Our Congress has been receiving money from all the banks that AIG was in bed with for years. And so they wrote a blank check-- at Paulson and Bush's (and then again and again) instigation to bail out AIG--and others--with NO stipulations as to how that money was to be used and we are worried about the names of the peope who got the bonuses. Millions of executives got bonuses we heard on the news tonight, at half a dozen banks to start. As I said: name all the names and we will be distracted from the true culprits: Our government who is in the pockets of the corporations and will be until we enact campaign reform and regulate banking and big business.
Why cant folks here understand that thee were employment contracts not bonuses. Does no one here ever had the experience of an employer making these kinds of deals. Employee are asked to stay and told they would be paid at the end of the term. And you and I don't know if they are "good" or "bad" employees.
The bottom line is that this is all political posturing by all sides.
The practically of the matter is simple. The gov says it bought AIG. Well when you buy a business you buy its assets and liabilities. You buy the contracts it must perform upon and the contracts that it expects performance on.
And it really does not matter (except for the public display of hypocrisy) whose fault it is. Maybe Dodd, maybe Giethner, maybe all the congressman that didn't read the stimulus bill.

What matters is the gov now wants to breech a contact and justify it by telling you and I how despicable the AIG employees are. Well it is irrelevant. The gov got caught with its pants down and it want to
change contracts. In a sense the gov screwed this up just as badly as the banks screwed their stuff up and as many individuals as well.
Now the gov has to admit its mistake and man up.

There is an option. It is called bankruptcy. Apparently they did not want that in the first place.
But the gov did one better. Instead of taking this to contract court, they let them have the bonus and are passing laws to tax select individuals in society. I am listening to Polosi lie on TV right now by insisting these are bonuses for criminals. They were employment contracts.
And now that the gov will get their 165M back as tax will AIG still owe the full TARP etc loan, or do they owe 165M less. Let me guess, the gov will actually get paid twice on this.

There were other easy measures. Let it go to court is one. Or
drop the tax crap and let the employees get paid sometime in the future when AIG is profitable and has paid the gov back.

If Obama has any balls he will veto this tax thing. Own up to the fact that this is a contract issue that the gov is on one side of and individuals are on the other side and let the courts settle it.

If I were Liddy, I would immediately increase the payments by 10 fold so the employees still get the full pay. Then congress can up the tax rate t0 99% and let the games begin.
Liddy should resign. He offered to help just to be ragged on publicly. If I were him I would have told Barney Frank to F off and run AIG himself. Yea, lets let all those idiots in congress try to run that mess. You think they would thank him for his service.

I will take bets this will go to the Supreme Court if the bill passes.
Yes, but the point is we are supposed to be learning from our mistakes not repeating them. Or as the former president said, fool me one, we won't get fooled again. Knowing that these assholes used public money to give themselves bonuses the current administration should have things in place with anything going forward to stop this kind of abuse of public money. Yes, the employees of AIG shouldn't be getting death threats, but I doubt you complained when people railed against Enron or Haliburtin. The fact is A.I.G are costing us hundreds of billions and misappropriating the money to reward failure. If we are going to bail out a company it should not be for massages on a retreat or bonuses they never would have received if their company had gone under. We should not be saving their golden parachutes.
I'd like to see a compromise. Your mention of the possibility of prank phone calls put the light bulb above my head. Release their names and phone numbers, but only to professional prank phone callers. Howard Stern, Jim Florentine, The Touch Tone Terrorists... maybe even get the Jerky Boys out of retirement for this one. While I cannot support vigilante justice, prank phone calls is definitely something I could get behind.
Yes, Jim, that's the point: IF we bail out a company...... which, I remind all of you, the public did not want to do when Paulson proposed it in the first place. But he rammed it down our (and Congress's throats) anyway.... and then we did it again and again, without learning an effing thing.

Good comment, Joseph Cole.... this tax bullshit they just passed is so unconstitutional it isn't even funny. And it will go straight to the Supreme Court.

As for the prank phone calls: if that were all that happened, that would be okay. Someone like Madoff had body guards to protect him. But for the average Bonus Joe, I am genuinely worried. There are a lot of true nutcases out there. Someone could easily get hurt.
Yes, the first bailout was rushed, you got that right. I'm not in favor of burning down houses or intimidating the the families of those who got those bonuses, and for elected officials to propose such things on camera or off is extremely irresponsible and inappropriate.

However, I think SOME public outrage is appropriate in the circumstances. IF the company was paying these people's bonuses out of the company's own pocket, I might think it inappropriate, but I wouldn't be outraged. I do however, think it's deeply inappropriate for private individuals of a company that performed so badly it had to be bailed out to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer's money to accept huge bonuses, promised or not, that are funded by the public's money. They CAN do it, looked at from the exec's point of view, they're obligated to do it. It doesn't make it right that the public should pay them these bonuses because the company cannot. We need to stimulate the economy, I'm not arguing that. But line certain private pockets? NO.
Here's an interesting twist on the question: How many of those AIG executives under fire voted for Obama and donated funds to his campaign? Wouldn't that be a weird place to find yourself in?
This may turn out to be a fight between Obama supporters and the Obama administration. That would be a great blog.
Well, unfortunately, outrage after the fact -- coupled with witchhunts -- is how we deal with wrongdoing in this country. Death threats aside -- no sane person countenances death threats -- it's hard to feel sorry for the overpaid people who destroyed the world economy.

While I will grant that much of the outrage coming from Congress smacks of the Claude Rains line in Casablanca -- they are shocked, shocked! to find that gambling is going on -- it doesn't change the fact that paying millions of dollars to the people who caused our financial woes is offensive, especially when so many people whose annual pay is in the five-figure range are being laid off.

Yes, Congress should never have changed the law so that AIG could get into the hedge fund business. Yes, somebody should have been guarding the henhouse. But also yes, the people working at AIG -- the hot shots being paid these bonuses out of our tax dollars -- should have known better. They did know better.

I don't know that their behavior wasn't criminal. I hope someone is looking into that. I don't pretend to be an expert on the laws governing insurance, securities, and all those other issues, but I wouldn't be surprised if some indictments come down, sooner or later.

As for the contracts, there are bound to be a few holes in them, but whether they can be canceled or not is the kind of legal dispute that will spend ten years in the courts. Me, I say it's worth a try to see if the greedy bastards are willing to sue over their taxpayer funded bonuses. But that's a judgment call, and it might end up costing more money than it saves.

Of course, the money should never have been given to AIG or anyone else without a huge list of restrictions, starting with bonuses and CEO pay. But the foxes who ran the henhouse in the former administration didn't seem to want to do that, and now we're stuck with their deals. Going forward we will do better (I trust), but a lot of money poured out the door without any oversight.
You can see whos donating to campaigns here:

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638


http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00006424
I hear what you're saying, Lisa. I don't agree with naming names, and I feel that physical threats against anyone aren't going to accomplish anything except shrink us all to the levels of bullies. I do feel that some sort of responsibility needs to be assumed for the bonuses. Who on earth gets a bonus when their business is going under? Certainly not any regular folks! Now that the government is 80% owner, I think that any previous bonus agreements should be reconsidered and ultimately voided. These are extraordinary times. Clearly many of the rules have changed.

Glad that you're back. Congrats on the well-deserved EP. :)
Hey Lisa K. You know I originally was going to talk about our being the Owner and how as we were now the owner we could just take over the company, fire the board and the execs and, like any (semi) hostile takeover revamp the company. Hey, we're pretty hostile, right? And then I checked with a friend who is a lawyer and financial manager and he told me that we are owners in the sense of owning stock but it is essentially non-voting stock and that AIG can buy it back when and as soon as it can and so while we own the majority of the stock in the company, we aren't really the "owners" per se. So, our "power" is limited, in spite of all this talk about ownership. That burst my bubble. My best wish? That Paulson had done due diligence in the first and second place and that Geithner and Obama had done it in the third place; that all the banks and AIG were NOT such big contributors to our congress (including Obama as candidate) and that the whiff of corruption didn't cling to all of them, even my beloved President. Now I just hope that we FINALLY learn something from all this and Reform, Reform, Reform the system rather than head out in an angry mob to name names and get pissed off just for the sake of getting pissed off.

Am I mad as hell and not going to take it any more (re that excellent move Network?) Yes, absofuckinglutely. But let's use our anger to write and lobby congress to clean up THEIR act, pass campaign reform and let them know we are watching them very closely. That we know who is truly to blame. NO MORE BLANK CHECKS. NO MORE RUSHED BAILOUTS. NO MORE PANIC ATTACKS where we act without thinking and react without really knowing what we are doing.
Are they criminals for accepting their bonuses? No. Should they be ashamed? Absolutely. And maybe if the names of those who accept the bonuses are made public, the shame of facing their friends, family and community will encourage them to do the right thing--or at least prevent them from enjoying our money as much as they would have.

And what about us, the American public? Those of us who didn't make our opinions known to our elected officials, so that they'd stop for a moment and think about the potential consequences of giving a sum this large with no strings attached. Those of us who didn't have time or just didn't bother to learn anything more about these enormous, gift-wrapped packages than what we saw on the news, or the extremely brief summary we read in the paper?

Let's not forget who put these folks in office, let's not forget that they are motivated by votes, and let's not forget that we are all partially responsible for the current financial fiasco.
I wrote both of my senators and my congressmen when all this bailout stuff started. I wrote and I wrote AND blogged and I blogged all against it. To no avail even though the American public was in the majority against it. Still congress passed that first 700 billion under Bush. And all I got were lousy apology letters after the fact from my guys in the Senate. Yeh, I tried. I think a lot of us did. At first. We did. Don't you remember how many of us were screaming and yelling: "NO bailout?" when Paulson first put the thing forward. And yet, and yet......
Actually, the limited information that is public suggests that significant criminal activity did take place at AIG, and between AIG and its counterparties. So, the reasonable operating assumption that we are dealing with a remarkably large criminal conspiracy should inform our decisions as a nation. That does not mean that citizens' threats are tolerable, and Grassley should be leading some sort of public act of contrition. Adults are needed now; I think that is Obama's role. He is right to say we don't give in to extortion, then he needs to call the cops.
Lisa,

I can agree wholeheartedly with you that we don’t need to publicly reveal the names of the individuals who received the bonus monies. I also agree fully that there are plenty of bigger fish to fry. But I’m not sure I agree with your assessment that our outrage should not be directed at “…the poor shlubs at A.I.G. who got the bonuses”.

Consider the following quote from NYTimes.com:

WASHINGTON — The bonuses that the American International Group awarded last week were paid to 418 employees and included $33.6 million for 52 people who have left the failed insurance conglomerate, according to the office of the New York attorney general.

The company paid the bonuses, including more than $1 million each to 73 people, to almost all of the employees in the financial products unit responsible for creating the exotic derivatives that caused A.I.G.’s near collapse and started the government rescue to avoid a global financial crisis.


Did we all get that? 33.6 million dollars paid to 52 people are no longer with the company; more than 1 million to each of 73 people and undisclosed amounts to others all who worked in that department of AIG that actually created the exotic derivatives that CAUSED the company’s near collapse. Of course, apparently the only reason the company did not collapse is because of some the bailout money provided by taxpayers’ money. Would it be safe to say that these people who received these bonuses actually DID cause its collapse and that taxpayers then saved it?

I have to say that “the poor schlubs at A.I.G. who got the bonuses” most definitely are worthy of outrage from the rest of us. But I definitely agree with your larger point that naming names might endanger them and/or their families, so no, don’t name names.

RATED
you make good points here - and kudos for taking on such a fiery topic. Like others here, I'm no so sure there is no criminality. And truly, I do not believe that giving the money with no actual strings attached is the same as giving the money with no tacit, implicit strings attached, the kind of strings that are part and parcel of every transaction in which the parties assume one another to be ethical and and in agreement on the problem and that the best possible steps will be taken to solve it. AIG did not hold up its end of this presumed bargain and I think that is a legitimate cause for anger from the people on the other side of the table - namely, the taxpayers and politicians who responded to AIG's panicked , there's-no-time-to-lose cries of 'we're going under! save us! save us or the whole economy will collapse and take you with it' and then watched with incredulity as the richest execs in the company immediately took a big chunk of the fund and flew back to their nests to line them with it.

I consider the comparison to giving money to a street person to feed himself who then spends it on alcohol specious. I am not at all offended when I give money to a homeless alcoholic drugged out lost soul and then see they spend it on alcohol or drugs. I expect that to happen, in fact. What I don't expect is when a reputable homeless shelter starts to go bust and begs me for money, I give a bunch, quickly, to help keep the doors open, and then stop by to find the staff having a party with a rented frozen margarita machine. THAT seems like a more reasonable comparison to make when calibrating my outrage.
I agree that public campaign finance is the solution to prevent votes, politicians and elections from being purchased.

The major problem is that people don't understand the significance of this type of reform. Campaign finance reform is boring. It isn't sexy. It doesn't get votes. It does get the wealthy special interest groups donating to those campaigns as soon as reforms are mentioned.

We need to overcome the First Amendment issue which allows people to donate to campaigns; the donation is considered free speech.

I just had a comment from someone else about this, and I had mentioned that I posted a proposed system of reform somewhere on Salon. I'm going to look for it, clean it up and repost it on my OS blog.

I'd be interested in hearing your ideas about reform, and what we can do.
Great post, Lisa. I shudder at any witch hunt, no matter its ideological stripe.

There seems to be so much misinformation and so many assumptions that go on around this bailout and economy mess. Joseph Cole makes a point that I intended to: these bonuses are part of those employees' pay structure; if they weren't guaranteed a bonus (usually based on their performance review), then they would have been paid more to begin with. And as far as their performance goes, of course they're not all criminals and cheats. This term "executives" probably goes twenty layers deep and includes thousands of hard-working, honest schmucks doing their various jobs, perhaps managing accounting or IS departments or running the maintenance department. Seriously, I wish people would be more thoughtful about the whole thing.
Where I think you and I disagree, Lisa, is that I believe the bailout was necessary, and I think they will need to add more to it in the fairly near future. My understanding is that most economists agree. This AIG mess (and I believe it was in fact a mistake to allow the bonuses to go through in the first place. I can't understand how that much money got allocated to the bonus pool given their financial situation. I think putting that much into the pot is a breach of fiduciary responsibility and could have been pursued by existing laws--back in October--rather than this unconstitutional attempt to revoke the agreement)...This AIG mess will make it so much harder for Obama to come to Congress and ask for more money for the banks and for AIG, but these are steps he must take. As Thomas Friedman says, financial institutions are the pulsating heart of our industry, and we've certainly seen how true that is. Nobody can do anything without banks operating normally (ie, extending credit).

I think many people are in the habit of behaviorist thinking; that is, they think in terms of punishment and reward. This is such a mistake. We should be able to hold two concepts in our heads at the same time: 1. that it's unfair that AIG executives who ran their company into the ground are getting big bonuses from taxpayers, and 2. that it's nevertheless better for our economy to continue to loan money to AIG and other financial institutions.

This reminds me of conservatives who keep talking about how "unfair" it is to "reward" those people who greedily bought homes or bigger homes they couldn't afford. Well, it may not be fair to keep them in their homes in spite of their poor decision, but that is the course of action that is best for the economy overall. So a few people get away with something. People need to be able to live with that.

Another example: bad teachers. I have friends who can't stand that there are so many bad teachers out there. (I agree. And I'm a teacher.) When I say the answer is to dramatically increase the salaries and status of teachers--all of them, now--she simply can't stomach the idea of "rewarding" the current bad ones. Again, if you are forward looking, you will understand that it's better to reward a few bad ones now with a policy that's practically guaranteed to bring in the cream of the future crop--the best minds who usually go into law or medicine or engineering or, ahem, writing.
Holy cow--so sorry to have sucked up so much space. Feel free to delete. I should have just posted my own thing on this. How embarrassing.
Lainey is right about the definition of executive bonus here. I've been at companies where I was defined as an executive and had a good bonus - but my salary was actually quite middling. I was taking a risk the company would continue to improve its stock performance, and my work was what was supposed to mitigate that risk - i.e. all of us execs were given bonuses as a pay for performance measure. Many of these execs - Director being the lowest title in that category) were the main productivity force of the company, working 70+ hour weeks and traveling 50% or more.They weren't fat cats sitting back and raking it in while they ran their company into the ground (and I was there while at least one of the companies lost 50% of its stock value). They were hard working people doing their day to day job. Only a small percent are the ones setting strategy and direction.

I don't know enough about the bonuses and who is getting them at AIG to really know how to feel about what actually happened - my perceptions are wildly skewed by the media reports and constant stream of outrage from the politicians. However, it does seem to me that AIG was irresponsible. When your company requires a huge taxpayer bailout, you don't hand out bonuses per usual. Look at healthy companies like HP - 10% salary cuts across the board, no exceptions. Probably bonus were significantly impacted too. It doesn't seem that AIG implemented any such measures prior to the anger coming out of Washington. It's beyond ironic that they are tightening their belt BEFORE needing a bailout, while AIG continues with business as usual after a bailout. Clearly, something is a little rotten in Denmark.
OK, I'm back. I did some research. $172 million going to 100 some odd people. That's the senior of the seniors, the ones that set strategy and direction for the company, lining their pockets with silver while the ship sinks beneath them. That's wrong. They should give them back. And in giving them out, AIG showed it was willing to continue the same practices that drove the company to its present position.
Yes, the witch hunt is scary. And ridiculously stupid. Because they are hunting the wrong witches!
The recipients of the bonuses may have been incompetents who screwed the company, but they did not go to AIG's finance department and say, OK, cut me a check for a million bucks just because I said so. Someone wrote on a contract to give them the money. When the government took over the company, they also took over the contracts. But they did not do jack about them. Up till the point they came due, and then even PAID the bonuses. So the recipients, well, I don't even know what they think, since the check's still in the mail probably. And now the whole country wants to string them up with piano wire. "OK, geez, if you're going to be like this, why did you send me the check in the first place?".

So who's the real witches? Try the guys who wrote the contracts in the first place, and the guys who knew about the contracts but didn't do shit for months, and the guys who paid them out.
I voted for Obama (damn) and it pains to see even he go after the wrong witches. It's very sad to see the country like this. Such a shame.
Such brilliant and thoughtful and reasoned comments from the latest commenters! Wow does OS have some smart and thoughtful people here! I am so glad to be a part of this community. Whew. No wonder we were nominated. Huff Po has nothing on us. Thanks men and women. You all rock!!!!!
did you all see this: http://open.salon.com/blog/skewz/2009/03/19/aig_outrage_babies_should_put_away_the_pitch_forks
Good post. Rated. I think the witch hunt thing was a reference to McCarthy not Salem. I also think it interesting to note that Geithner was the principal architect of all phases of the AIG giveaway and it was he who ordered Dodd to insert the AIG loophole although he probably didn't order Dodd to lie about it. Finally, I should note that every single Republican senator and all but three Republican representatives voted against the stimulus bill which was, at the insistence of Obama and his Congressional bosses, not properly vetted. Finally (I lied about the first "finally"), there is no question that the 90% tax bill, IF passed by the House and WHEN signed by Obama (I see no evidence that Obama has the guts to veto anything that Pelosi and Reid want) will be tied up in constitutional litigation for a very long time and will be ultimately declared void.
Actually, first two AIG monies came under Paulson Bush. And yes witch hunt did of course refer to McCarthy not Salem as I made perfectly clear. And yes any tax on bonuses is clearly unconstitutional.
This is the same kind of mentality that got us the TSA, people. You know, the jokers who would know a terrorist threat if it jumped up and bit them in the ass who make you unpack your bag so they can take a look at your tweezers?

Do something, people say. So Congress does. And what they do is a knee jerk reaction which doesn't solve the problem.

Fine. You tax the bonuses of the employees whose companies took TARP money at 90 percent if they're over x dollars. Big whoop.

Does it solve the problem we're facing? Does it help AIG sell itself off so that we, the people can get paid back? Does it help them unwind a single CDS? Does it help AIG write a single profitable insurance policy? Does it create a single job?

No, it does not. Let's focus on what is important instead of getting distracted by one tenth of one percent of what we've pumped into AIG.
Yup Tony. I think for once you and I agree:)
Tony and Lainey make the same point, really. And they're right, big picture. The outrage we are seeing now is the antithesis of seeing/understanding the big picture.
Yup, which is why I complimented all you smart people (including you Sandra) but the fact is that we on OS are smarter than the average American, unfortunately..... who does not seem to see the big picture. Ever. Nor does the majority of our congress. We think and act short term. Which is what got us into this (and other) mess(es) in the first place. And unless we change it will only be more of the same.
It seems to me that the proposed bonus tax is a bill of attainder and therefore clearly, and scarily, unconstitutional.
It seems this was also published on HuffPo at
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lisa-solod-warren/the-new-american-witch-hu_b_176950.html

although they never told me.

Anyone who loves me could go and buzz it up. That would be great!!!!