Will anyone ever forget the pictures of Lynndie England, looking as though she were gleefully enjoying he torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison in Baghdad during the American occupation of Iraq? Or then president George Bush’s insistence that England was one of a few “bad apples” in the service who would be weeded out and prosecuted? Well, she was. England, a U.S. Army Reservist, was convicted and served 521 days, the paroled in 2007, after which we received a dishonorable discharge. Charles Graner, a fellow Reservist, and the man by whom England allegedly became pregnant, is serving ten years at Ft. Leavenworth. The other five of the Abu Ghraib Seven were all punished for their actions.
Janis Karpinski, the former head of the Abu Ghraib prison, demoted, and now retired, spoke out about the issue four years ago (here below) and has written a book about her experiences entitled One Woman’s Army.
http://www.democracynow.org/2005/10/26/col_janis_karpinski_the_former_head
And just last night, she gave a moving and emotional interview to an uncharacteristically chastened and quiet Keith Olberman (see it here)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/30356023#30356023in which she made the convincing point that the soldiers who were convicted and sentenced should not have suffered while those at the top, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, and Bush, among others, not to mention the authors of the so-called “torture memos” go unpunished.
But where is the outrage? While the American public calls for the heads of the memo’s authors, who recalls Bush’s statements about the bad apples? Who recalls his promise that those few would be weeded out and taken care of? And who really believed at the time that those soldiers were acting of their own accord? How could we, the American public, have let this situation get so out of hand? And how can we now, as so many are calling for, just let it go, let sleeping dogs lie, and assume that nothing like this will happen again.
Not only is it is clear that in the past administration torture was being sanctioned at the highest levels, that torture was being planned long before the "memos" were even written according to reports in yesterday's Washington Post.
If the soldiers who carried out the torture were doing so under direct orders and to disobey those orders meant putting their jobs at peril then we already have a problem. With our system, with morale, with much larger issues.
Should those soldiers have been punished? At this point, that is a moot point. They have been. Now the punishment must reach the top. If the Abu Ghraib Seven had to pay, then so should all the men and women involved in the actions. As Karpinski stressed: There was a direct line from the very top to the very bottom. And all involved must be made responsible for their actions. Why foot soldiers are serving years in prison when the powerful men and women who sent those soldiers to do the dirty work are spouting lies on television are free is a travesty. Until all are made to pay, the torture memos history cannot be put behind us and we cannot move on.
*I found this story particularly interesting in light of my post:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article6207484.ece
Apparently, Charles Graner and others are going to appeal their convictions in light of the recently released memos because those memos prove that they were scapegoats of the Bush administration.
It seems to me that not this issue will not simple go away--no matter what the Obama administration wants, no matter that NBC News reported in a poll last week that the majority of Americans wish to "move on."
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Are those who like to brag that this is the best nation on earth because we are a nation of freedom and laws willing to stand behind that now? Most likely...not. And that' s the blatant hypocrisy of the whole thing. If you're not going to see justice served, then you can no longer brag about this country's greatness. You'll have to, instead, claim that we're the "safest" country in the world and leave it at that.
Good post.
Monte
amen lisa! we need justice to be done here, and by justice i don't mean throwing the book at a few enlisted personnel. as much as it needs to be done though, i'm not holding my breath. even out of office, bush, cheney, rumsfeld and the rest seem to be untouchable; i'm almost getting a sense that some kind of deal was worked out between bush's people and obama's that there'd be no meaningful investigation into all this.
You and I are on the same page.
http://open.salon.com/blog/fingerlakeswanderer/2009/04/23/where_was_the_torture_outrage_in_2005
Did we really believe Bush when he said this was a few bad apples? What, were we all collectively high?
All the poll numbers I've heard of feel that we have to investigate and get to the bottom of this mess. Otherwise we leave the door wide open for similar actions in the future.
If there are no consequences there are no deterrents. We are either a Country of laws or we are not. We can't have two sets of rules and we can't just let our leaders make it up as they go along. I don't see a choice here.
And Michael, if we can't multi-task and get this done along with the rest of our work, then we don't deserve our reputation as "the leader of the free world," now do we? Disruptive, maybe. But it must be done.
Thanks for this.
She was a Brigadier General for christs sake. A Brigadier General is a senior officer, not some eighteen year old enlisted kid. Generals are educated and seasoned. She knew better and should have refused to follow illegal orders and not permitted torture to occur.
While Karpinski may be impressive as a person, but she deserved her punishment and is damn lucky she was allowed to retire at all. I'd have put in her a cell next to her soldiers. Following orders is no excuse.
especially stubborn asshats like terrorists that cant wait to die...
At first, I immediately questioned: "What the heck was that General doing at her own base?"
Then, she described the environment of "contract" or "special" teams coming in and taking over. She clearly wasn't kept in the loop. So why the punishment and demotion when she wasn't in command of the operations?
Usually such operations are detached from the unit commander's control (hence the term "detachment") and the chain of command is immunized from liability.
"i'm afraid i'm going to have to disagree somewhat....like it or not...torture works...," these guys beg to differ. Do you know something that they don't?"
GENERAL JOSEPH HOAR, USMC (RET.)
GENERAL JOHN P. JUMPER, USAF (RET.)
GENERAL MERRILL A. MCPEAK, USAF (RET.)
LIEUTENANT GENERAL CLAUDIA J. KENNEDY, USA (RET.)
LIEUTENANT GENERAL CHARLES OTSTOTT, USA (RET.)
LIEUTENANT GENERAL HARRY E. SOYSTER, USA (RET.)
MAJOR GENERAL JOHN BATISTE, USA (RET.)
MAJOR GENERAL PAUL EATON, USA (RET.)
MAJOR GENERAL LARRY GOTTARDI, USA (RET.)
REAR ADMIRAL JOHN D. HUTSON, USN (RET.)
MAJOR GENERAL MELVYN MONTANO, ANG (RET.)
MAJOR GENERAL ANTONIO ‘TONY’ M. TAGUBA, USA (RET.)
BRIGADIER GENERAL DORIAN ANDERSON, USA (RET.)
BRIGADIER GENERAL STEPHEN A. CHENEY, USMC (RET.)
BRIGADIER GENERAL EVELYN P. FOOTE, USA (RET.)
BRIGADIER GENERAL OSCAR HILMAN, USA (RET.)
BRIGADIER GENERAL JOHN H. JOHNS, USA (RET.)
BRIGADIER GENERAL MURRAY G. SAGSVEEN, USA (RET.)
BRIGADIER GENERAL ANTHONY VERRENGIA, USAF (RET.)
GENERAL CHARLES KRULAK, USMC (RET.)
GENERAL VOLNEY F. WARNER, USA (RET.)
VICE ADMIRAL LEE F. GUNN, USN (RET.)
VICE ADMIRAL ALBERT H. KONETZNI JR., USN (RET.)
VICE ADMIRAL JACK SHANAHAN, USN (RET.)
LIEUTENANT GENERAL JAMES M. THOMPSON, USA (RET.)
REAR ADMIRAL JAMES ARDEN BARNETT, JR. USNR (RET.)
MAJOR GENERAL EUGENE FOX, USA (RET.)
REAR ADMIRAL DON GUTER, USN (RET.)
MAJOR GENERAL ERIC OLSON, USA (RET.)
REAR ADMIRAL DAVID M. STONE, USN (RET.)
BRIGADIER GENERAL HUGH AITKEN, USMC (RET.)
BRIGADIER GENERAL DAVID M. BRAHMS, USMC
BRIGADIER GENERAL JAMES P. CULLEN, USA (RET.)
BRIGADIER GENERAL LIEF H. HENDRICKSON, USMC
BRIGADIER GENERAL DAVID R. IRVINE, USA (RET.)
BRIGADIER GENERAL DAVID L. MCGINNIS, USA (RET.)
BRIGADIER GENERAL EARL SIMMS, USA (RET.)
BRIGADIER GENERAL STEPHEN N. XENAKIS, USA (RET.)
The question is, will public pressure be enough to overturn Washington's *obvious* desire to sweep the whole thing under the rug and hope it goes away?
They do not record your name so feel free to call often. Must keep the pressure on.
But one thing about England to remember, to be fair.
First, recall the Milgrom and Roberts social psych experiments from the 60's where they played prisoners and guards? That got real ugly, and they had to give some of the "guards" therapy, because of what beast lies in all of us under the right institutional arrangements, like it, or not.'
For example, I was in a fraternity.
We hazed, and it gets out of hand without adult supervision.
Part of what happened was they let loose a bunch of 18 year olds who whne they had the same power in college, do similar things.
There was a fraternity I knew, that made pledges roll around naked in mollases and stuck things in them. Not mine, thank God.
In my fraternity, we only were locked in a closet bound and gagged and forced drink dangerous amounts of whisky and to listen to a repeated song over and over and over again for as long as five hours that is still in everyone's head who experienced it.
Some of what you see in her face, is in effect, a juvenile fraternity prankster run amok, and that was Karpinski and up's fault. rated.
Thanks Cartouche.
Be my Digg buddy?
BBE: If the White House doesn't have some kind of automated program running that records every phone call and number to its switchboard for later scrutiny, I'd be absolutely stunned.
(1) Torture renders future prosecution all but impossible, meaning victims either have to be released, killed or kept in prison for the rest of lives without charges
(2) It is well-known among experienced interrogators that such information is unreliable; even if the victim is truthful -- a huge if -- his information is likely outdated
(3) Torture victims generally become hardened by torture -- not softened as amateurs allege, thus they are even more likely to give false or misleading information
(4) Perhaps the worst consequence of torture is that intel gained in this manner is often assumed to be of higher value and is pursued to the detriment of intel gained by traditional methods
Anyone who doesn't think that last point important, needs to be reminded there was no lack of "actionable intelligence" prior to 9-11. Rather there was a failure to act on intel that might have prevented the catastrophe. And let us not forget, that intel was gained without torture.
Absolutely!
whether it works or not is a non-debate (it doesn't). the bushies talk about bringing our values to the world. how can we do that when we've lost them ourselves?
http://speaker.house.gov/blog/?p=1190
President Bush Vetoes Prohibition on Torture
March 8th, 2008 by Karina
This morning, President Bush announced he vetoed the House and Senate passed Intelligence Authorization bill because it extended the prohibition on the use of waterboarding and other harsh coercive interrogation techniques that currently applies to the military to the entire Intelligence Community, including the CIA.
On the veto, Speaker Pelosi said:
The intelligence authorization bill invests in human intelligence, counterterrorism operations, and analysis to protect our nation and ensure that policymakers have access to accurate, timely and actionable intelligence. This legislation is a critical component of securing our nation and the President should have signed it into law.
Instead, the President vetoed these essential investments in our intelligence capabilities because this legislation extended the Army Field Manual’s prohibition on torture to Intelligence Community personnel. Failing to legally prohibit the use of waterboarding and other harsh torture techniques undermines our nation’s moral authority, puts American military and diplomatic personnel at-risk, and undermines the quality of intelligence.
In the final analysis, our ability to lead the world will depend not only on our military might, but also on our moral authority. We will begin to reassert that moral authority by attempting to override the President’s veto next week. The world must know that America does not torture.
Military leaders – including General David Petraeus, Commanding General of U.S. forces in Iraq – have publicly stated that these techniques are inhumane, un-American and are not necessary to produce results.
General David Petraeus, Commanding General of Iraq:
“Some may argue that we would be more effective if we sanctioned torture or other expedient methods to obtain information from the enemy. That would be wrong. Beyond the basic fact that such actions are illegal, history shows that they also are frequently neither useful nor necessary. Certainly, extreme physical action can make someone ‘talk;’ however, what the individual says may be of questionable value. In fact, our experience in applying the interrogations laid out in the Army Field Manual….that was published last year shows that the techniques in the manual work effectively and humanely in eliciting information from detainees.” [Open Letter, 5/10/07]
Lt. General Michael D. Maples, Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency, asked by Sen. Carl Levin if he thinks waterboarding is consistent with the Geneva Conventions:
“No, sir, I don’t.”
Asked if it he believes it’s humane:
“No, sir. I think it would go beyond that bound.”
[Testimony before the Senate Armed Services Committee, 2/27/08]
Lt. General Harry Soyster, (Ret.) Former Director of Defense Intelligence Agency:
“Experience shows that the field manual’s approaches to interrogation work. The Army Field Manual is comprehensive and sophisticated. It contains all the techniques any good interrogator needs to get accurate, reliable information, including out of the toughest customers.” [2/29/08]
Rear Admiral Donald J. Guter, (Ret.) Judge Advocate General, Navy, Rear Admiral John D. Hutson, (Ret.) Judge Advocate General, Navy, Major General John L. Fugh, (Ret.) Judge Advocate General, Army, Rear Admiral Donald J. Guter, (Ret.) Judge Advocate General, Navy:
“As far as we’re concerned, this shouldn’t be a point the United States should have to debate… There’s no disconnect between human rights and national security…They’re synergistic. One doesn’t work without the other for very long.” [Pittsburgh Post Gazette, 12/10/07]
Maj. General Evan Wallach, (Ret.) Judge Advocate General, Nevada National Guard:
“The United States knows quite a bit about waterboarding. The U.S. government — whether acting alone before domestic courts, commissions and courts-martial or as part of the world community — has not only condemned the use of water torture but has severely punished those who applied it… We know that U.S. military tribunals and U.S. judges have examined certain types of water-based interrogation and found that they constituted torture. That’s a lesson worth learning. The study of law is, after all, largely the study of history. The law of war is no different. This history should be of value to those who seek to understand what the law is — as well as what it ought to be.” [Washington Post, 11/4/07]
Brigadier General David M. Brahms, (Ret.) Staff Judge Advocate to the Commandant:
“Waterboarding is inhumane, it is torture, and it is illegal… This is a critically important issue - but it is not, and never has been, a complex issue, and even to suggest otherwise does a terrible disservice to this nation… Waterboarding detainees amounts to illegal torture in all circumstances. To suggest otherwise - or even to give credence to such a suggestion - represents both an affront to the law and to the core values of our nation.” [Letter, 11/2/07]
General Joseph Hoar, (Ret.), General David M. Maddox, (Ret.), Vice Admiral Lee F. Gunn, (Ret.), Vice Admiral Albert Konetzni Jr. Ret.), Maj. General Paul Eaton, (Ret.), Rear Admiral Don Guter, (Ret.), Maj. General Melvyn Montano, (Ret.), Brig. General David Brahms, (Ret.), Brig. General David Irvine, (Ret.), Brig. General Murray Sagsveen, (Ret.), General Paul J. Kern, (Ret.), General Merrill A. McPeak, (Ret.), Lt. General Claudia J. Kennedy, (Ret.), Lt. General Charles Otstott, (Ret.), Maj. General Eugene Fox, (Ret.), Maj. General Fred E. Haynes, (Ret.), Maj. General Gerald T. Sajer, (Ret.), Brig. General James P. Cullen, (Ret.), Brig. General John H. Johns, (Ret.), Brig. General Anthony Verrengia, (Ret.), General Charles Krulak, (Ret.), Admiral Stansfield Turner, (Ret.), Lt. General Donald L. Kerrick, (Ret.), Lt. General Harry E. Soyster, (Ret.), Maj. General John L. Fugh, (Ret.), Rear Admiral John D. Hutson, (Ret.), Maj. General Antonio M. Taguba, (Ret.), Brig. General Evelyn P. Foote, (Ret.), Brig. General Richard O’Meara, (Ret.), Brig. General Stephen N. Xenakis, (Ret.):
“We believe it is vital to the safety of our men and women in uniform that the United States not sanction the use of interrogation methods it would find unacceptable if inflicted by the enemy against captured Americans…The current situation, in which the military operates under one set of interrogation rules that are public and the CIA operates under a separate, secret set of rules, is unwise and impractical…What sets us apart from our enemies in this fight…is how we behave. In everything we do, we must observe the standards and values that dictate that we treat noncombatants and detainees with dignity and respect.” [Letter, 12/12/07]
I want every link exposed in the full light of video cameras and newspaper photos. I want the mothers of these people to know about them, the doctors, the mail carriers, the children to know their Mom or Dad was a torturer, or ordered people sent away to suffer unspeakably in secret.
Once that little chain is out in the sun, let's go for the rendition chain. Who authorizes the disappearing and tossing into hell of these people? Which amoral criminals carried those orders out? Print the names, blazon the faces. A speedy and extremely public trial is what I want, whether they can snake out of a sentence or not. I want their names known and their faces recognized in the street.