littleboxofspoons

littleboxofspoons
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I muck about with filmmaking, writing and general artistic impulses as often as possible. I chose my photo because it reminds me of a quote from 'Labyrinth': "It's so stimulating being your hat!"

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Salon.com
OCTOBER 24, 2009 3:02AM

Why do you hate strippers? And why do I care?

Rate: 9 Flag

The 'you' in my title does not refer to you, specifically.  (Unless, of course, you really hate strippers.)  It refers to people in general who use strippers as their go-to textbook example of bad people.

A guy friend of mine, (who is himself a textbook example of many irresponsible and lazy habits,) hates strippers.  So what? He's a raging sexist and is afraid of women.  He flatly denies both, but he exhibits all the signs.  

When I was in theatre school, my professor of History of Dramatic Literature told us this cautionary tale: "I once had a student who hated Chekov. Her specific words were 'Chekov sucks!' And do you know what happened to her? She became a stripper!"  (Which made me determined to put on a good show of appreciating Chekov, even though I hate reading his work.  It's fine on stage, but I have a hard time following it and picking up on the subtext...anyway.)

Whether the story is true or not isn't the point; the point is it's bad to be a stripper.  And, yeah, I can see how, for any aspiring actor, the idea of never getting any closer to the biz than being a stripper sounds dreadful.  And okay, if I had a daughter I wouldn't want her to become a stripper.  Or at least, I wouldn't want that to be her highest career ambition.  I dunno, we'll check back on that when I actually have kids.

And yeah, we all know many women who become strippers were abused as children, BUT: that does not mean that it is wrong or sick somehow for a woman to be a stripper.  That does not mean it only happens as a result of something else going wrong, as my friend would have us believe, and I know he's not the only one. 

In conversation once, when I asked why he thought it was so wrong for women to be strippers, he answered by asking me, "Well, would you do it?"

"No." I said, "but that doesn't mean it's wrong.  I also will never eat a banana, drink coffee or wear a Gap tee-shirt. So what?"

After a long and worthless argument, which I won't repeat, because it was stupid and lame, his final position was: 

A. Strippers are bad because they deceive men out of their hard-earned money.  (Oh, right, because all men are that stupid.)

B.  They'll sleep with anyone. (You wish!)

C. It's unnatural for women to behave that way.

As if he were some authority on what's natural for women to do.  Right.

When I asked if it was natural for men to want to watch women strip, he said of course it was, and he said it without irony.  Oy vey.  So in essence, this guy believes that men have this basic need to watch women strip, but women must never indulge that need, because to do so is unnatural and bad.  Interestingly, this is also a guy who believes all women should have the right to choose (abortion).  That's his only step in the direction of feminism. Weird, huh?

So fine, he's lame, whatever.  What bothers me more than his stupid opinion, though, is the fact that his stupid opinion bothers me.  And not just his opinion on this matter. Anyone who has the same opinion as him on this matter. Why?

I myself do not know anyone (to my knowledge, anyway) who strips or has stripped professionally.  I've only ever been to a strip club once and it was actually very amusing.  I certainly wouldn't want to be a stripper (despite Barbie games of yore),   and I'm not saying I think it's a great and noble art or anything, although there certainly can be an art to it, and some women seem to really love it.  It's a job.  Sometimes it's a career. 

So why am I offended at this guy's opinion?  Why do I take his remarks personally?  I guess because it isn't just about strippers; it's about women in general.  He thinks it is wrong for any woman to show her sexuality that way; a view that is hardly unique, although it sure feels like it should be outdated by now.

What it comes down to is, bigotry.  It's bigotry.

But what's weird is, this view isn't widely recognized as bigotry.  It's still acceptable.  People like to hide behind other reasons when they talk down about strippers: the likelihood of drug abuse, promiscuity, serving the patriarchy, whatever.  But I think it still comes down to a knee-jerk reaction to women being openly sexual.  Otherwise, you're assuming all strippers are exactly the same.

Like any other job, it differs from person to person.  Not all strippers were abused in childhood. Not all strippers do it because they need the money for drugs.  Not all of them like it.  Not all of them don't.  Which many people don't seem to be willing to accept. " No, strippers aren't people too, they're different.  They don't really have lives like the rest of us."

In fact, to a certain degree I think many people still view strippers through a lens much like the one they use to view criminals, such as rapists: it's more comfortable, for some of us, to believe that they belong to some group other than humanity. 

 

 

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Do I have to flash someone to get this into the feed? Because I won't.
One of my best friends was a stripper for many years. And yeah, although I love her, she is messed up and the stories that she told me did not include anyone working to save money to go to school.

My best reason for hating titty bars comes down to this: It confirms the worst things that we are as a society: That women are only interested in men that have money. And that men see women as sex objects that can be bought.

I support legalized prostitution. Tax it and let the women get the health care that they need. It is truly a victim-less crime and serves a need. Those ugly, horny, unsocialized guys can get laid if they have any scratch, and the unskilled dumbshits should be able to make a living. And have health care.

Harsh, you say? You betcha.
I certainly can't deny that there are screwed up strippers out there. But I think your view is an oversimplification. Sure there are some weird and unhealthy things about strip clubs, but that doesn't apply to every woman who works at one, nor does it apply to every man who goes to one.
I think "reality" TV reflects many worse things about our society than strip clubs.
I have been on all sides of this: as appreciator, as confessor, as unwilling spectator. Sadly, this is a profession that people feel they can comment on without inhibition. Must be that moral majority thing.
mypsyche, I guess everybody likes to be able to look down on someone.
little box of spoons.

You ask:`Do I have to flash someone to get this into the feed?

It would get you a Editor Pick?
It would help take my mind off politics.
It would help male bonding with all working women?

It Ya wonder who I am? I am wearing a geese hat with a long greasy velveteen coat. The pockets have vast holing capacities. The lower legs of my trousers are dirty canvas farmer britches that verifies I am a member of the underworld working class of small family poor farmers.

The boots are caked with manure.
The soul is proof I walk in a barn.
The dirty sycamore staff steadies.

You wade through the slippery mud if it rains.
You are in safe company if Ya come with me?
You can venture across thee Potomac River.

In West Virginia there are more reputable gentleman clubs than synagogues. Preacher bring their Sunday School classes and speak against the aristocratic species. There is more common sense in the pretty pole dancer's panties than in the Lobby Politico's H $ K- Mart Street across the river, than in the vile and unsafe politician species.

We call a fake a mudlark. Last eve I was listening to my son and a reliable West Virginian who took my labor role on the organic diversity, old-time, truck patch farm. The farm operation that my son manages with his wife was big enough to store the pantry with canned foods. Stock Rooms were storage investments. Shelf. Stock the Stock Room Shelf.
You won't starve in winter.
Get cuddled up near a hearth.
Sell the bounty or give to the needy.
The sustainable farm was - A Truck Patch Farm.

I was realizing it's about time to visit a dancer in West Virginia.
Wow!
Immediately? Just after I typed that Torah! I heard Thunder!
Honest!
Yippee!
I've thought about this. I liked the post. I don't race across the flowing
Potomac?
heehaws?
I've read about the Corinth group of Holy Temple Women, and I was one night in Thailand's Red Light District. I felt wonderfully much more amazed?
Simply impressed?
Beautifully 'um dance.
I saw a young peasant.
I did lust as She danced?
No.
I still can see her image?
Yes.
She danced with candles.
C.S. Lewis writes of this.
I got to go sell green kale.
DC can be hell on K- strip.
Fascinating ponder topics.
Visit India? Adore beautiful
I'm no sleazy scruffs geezer!
Nor a shifty old geezer either!
I am repulsed by DCs Lobbyist!
Whores in DC peddle influence!
Rich cat lobby for big whore huts!
You got me wondering about this!
DCs full of cheap pole cats skunks!
I really did hear the loud Thunder!
Maybe? I'll visit China Town today!
Hey, their body, their life, their choice. I don't care if they do it because they think of it as art, are doing it to feed their kids or doing it to feed their habit.

Sexist sometimes? Hell, yeah! But the couple of strippers I know are laughing their ass off at the dumb-asses that shove $20 dollar bills into the waist band of panties they ain't ever going to get into. They wouldn't screw / have a relationship with anybody that routinely frequents a strip club cuz they think they are all losers.

BTW, Chekov DOES sucks! So does that Prof who apparently had just a few issues of his own!
Over the years I've known several women who worked as strippers. I remember them as being women like any other women I've known. Their stories and histories were mixed and varied, as were their goals and hopes. It was good for me to find out, once again, we were more similar than different. That's the best lesson I take from any encounter with people.

(The idea that strippers deceive men out of their hard-earned money is truly hilarious.)
Why do people pick up garbage for a living? Work in a coal mine?

My answer is for the same reason that some babes become strippers. It is something they are willing to do, and it brings them a decent living without necessarily having a college degree and good connections.

Guys don't want to be roaming through ruined food, animal waste, piles of newspapers, etc., or breathing potentially contaminated air for hours on end. But they do what they have to do.

Just the same, babes can generate a significant income by taking off their clothes and looking good doing it. More money than if they sat in an office all day typing proposals or waiting on customers. It's their choice. And they don't need a college degree, even though some babes strip or dance to pay their way through college.

Furthermore, you could make the same comments about football players who are linemen. They bulk themselves up to block other guys their size, get tackled and hit, and risk injury every game and even during practices. They are using their oversized bodies to do a job which pays them quite well. Think about this.

Guys also pay a lot of money to watch these guys do what they do. Look at attendance figures for football games around the country and the ratings on TV this season.

Then there the young babes, not all of whom are cute, who do what they need to do, which is make use of their bodies, in order to make a good living.

Obviously (I hope!) I am not a stripper and have no intentions. I'm not defending anyone in particular.

But as a total creep of a guy, I absolutely love to watch babes strip. It turns me on, gets me excited, and for me it enhances my sex life. I'm more turned on when I have seen attractive babes fully or even partially naked.

In my case, I don't care for strip clubs, except for amateur nights. I prefer seeing "real" babes do it when it is not for the purpose of letting me see.

And millions of guys enjoy it, some in the same way, and some in different ways than me.

A lot of women resent that. I figure that they should be more concerned if they are naked and guy's do NOT look at them.

Your opinion, or someone else's opinion of a stripper should not bother you one bit. Think of it along with other jobs you wouldn't want to do.
I.C. London wrote: "I figure that they should be more concerned if they are naked and guy's do NOT look at them."

Jesus, dude! Does your mom know you're on the computer before you cleaned your room? Don't you have some homework to do or something other than posting a bunch of juvenile, sexist crap?
Hey, Safe Bet. The point of the original post is about opinions of women based on what they do for a living. But you think I am being sexist??

I suppose you think that nobody goes to 'gentleman's clubs' around the country? That nobody looks at porn online?

Not to mention that I commented on the post and contributed to this discussion. You didn't. No wonder you know the word juvenile.
Interesting thoughts.

wakingupslowly, I laughed my ass off when he said that thing about strippers deceiving men out of their money. I also got him to retract it pretty darn quickly, although he still feels stripping is
criminal.

Safe Bet: Thank you for your validation of my view of Chekov! :)

I.C. London: "A lot of women resent that. I figure that they should be more concerned if they are naked and guy's do NOT look at them."

Some people are upset no matter what. I know a woman who is married and she'll complain that her husband averts his eyes when she undresses, but then also wants him to turn off the light during sex because she's self-conscious. I don't get it.

Now that you mention it, I think it is just as sexist for women to condemn men who watch strippers and/or porn. Just because they do it doesn't mean they're unhealthy or pervy. Now, a guy who only watches porn and can't deal with actual relationships...that's another story, and although I personally don't think that is healthy, I'm not really qualified to make that diagnosis, but my point is, all people are different (and the same). Everyone does things for different reasons.

Stripping is one of many ways some people get to experience their sexual fantasies.

And
I actually don't think Ginny oversimplified in her explanation about worst society traits. But I would add another layer; that strippers are hated because they are women who choose to flaunt/use their sexuality. In our repressive Puritan society, that's unacceptable behavior.
People like feeling superior. It's a class thing as much as anything. Strippers generally do not come from the "good" part of town. (There are exceptions, but they are few and far between.) It's another way of reinforcing the "we're not like them" mantra even as we fear becoming like them.
I was a stripper in my late teens. I did it because my Mom threw me out of the house before I had finished high school or acquired any job experience beyond babysitting. An acquaintance told me I could make enough money in a single evening to pay for a week at a residence hotel.
Stripping put a roof over my head and fed me. I never had sex with any strip club customer. I had my own real ove life. The guys who came to strip clubs scared me. I would disguise myself before I left (wipe the makeup off, braid my hair; put on loose jeans, sneakers and sweat shirts) to make sure none of the customers would recognize me.
When I wasn't stripping I was doing real dancing, acting, singing, poetry and (leftist) activism. Eventually I acquired enough skills and stability to get some work as a temp receptionist and stop stripping.
Never assume. You make as ass of u and me.
" Strippers are bad because they deceive men out of their hard-earned money."

So Bernie Madoff was a stripper? Who knew?

People who criticize female sex workers for what they do could do worse than to check out Annie Sprinkle or certain of Greta Christina's writings on the subject. In my opinion, the worst thing about sex work is that for too many women it's still the best economic option they've got.

And for what it's worth, strip clubs aren't my cup of five-dollar-ginger ale. If I'm looking for certain forms of entertainment, the World Wide Web has proven quite adequate!
Interesting. I was a stripper for 4 years in the early 90's. 1. I didn't do it to get money for drugs, I did it so I could live in a cool condo on the beach and go shopping. 2. I was abused as a child 3. I mostly liked it, especially wearing high heels, feathers and rhinestones, that was cool. I can also light my nipples on fire. :) Really what other job can you learn that trick?!