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Lunchlady 2

Lunchlady 2
Birthday
March 05
Bio
I have been here, oh my, 2 or 3 years and in that time I have seen my youngest daughter wed and have my first beautiful granddaughter. I have seen a son join the Navy and fly away and I have buried my oldest son. This makes two sons I have lost and right now the world seems unfair and harsh but someday I will smile again and remember the good times more than the bad. Did I mention the alcoholic husband who has been in the hospital three times near death...it makes me wonder much about why some live, yet don't, and some die who are just starting to live. Out of 6 children I still have 4 and they are the light of my life....

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DECEMBER 7, 2011 8:33AM

The Question of Suicide

Rate: 41 Flag

Dark Thoughts  

It is not a question I am contemplating pursuing except in thought so please don't worry.

I wonder if all parents or spouses don't wonder about this at some point while they heal, maybe even when you lose parents, siblings if you are incredibly close.

 Healing is a slow painful process, as too many here know, and once in a while when you accept too much pain, too much knowing they are really gone, you find you can't breathe, you believe you can't hurt anymore and to end the pain is something you think about, not for a long time always, but still I know it ran through my mind with both my children's passing.

Some days are easy and you get through them, but then there are those days where you see them everywhere (the people who know say that is because they are deeply on your mind) and you keep reliving their last moments, last breath, from there you realize they have had their last birthday, Christmas, and it sucks you in like a backwards balloon until you feel like you can't possibly live without them.

It flashes through your mind quickly some times and you dismiss it but then there are the other times, the times that hurt so damn bad you can't quit crying, you fear you never will and you think farther about leaving to be with them or maybe just not be, so it quits hurting.

 You cannot imagine life without them....

Then slowly you realize you still have children or pets, parents or a spouse who need you, who would feed the cat, pay the bills, drive the other children around and you realize that to leave them would be a waste of a life and you rationalize they really do need you to stay. What would your dying do too them?

You could also at this point ( okay fine "I" could also at this point) feel a pain here or there and think to yourself how would I feel RIGHT NOW if I were to discover I had an incurable disease. Would I be happy, do I really want my life to end, to never hear my children's voice, or see a sunrise, an ocean wave, my granddaughter?

 I realize the pain is real, I miss my son horribly, I could always help him, I always helped him when he called but what I did letting him go was what he needed then. Does he understand?

If I let myself, I will go over every single moment leading up to his death, was he scared is my hardest question, the one that hurts the most. I couldn't stand the thought that my son was scared and even though I was there, offered him comfort held his hand it was not enough. I couldn't live with that.

The question of suicide...

It is not a question I am contemplating pursuing except in thought. 

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The impulse is often fairly near the surface in most people, psychologists say, Terri. It's a residual of the primitive "fight or flight" instinct that appears under stress, the understanding of the need for resolution juxtaposed against the longing for the womb. Most times when it reaches the consciousness and we actually pay it some mind, we see how unrealistic it is, the end-it-all impulse. The tug may remain, but we know better. We have promises to keep and miles to go before we sleep.
Take care, and find peace, if it should be right for you to do so
I am glad you are not contemplating suicide yet I can imagine that it would cross your mind. After what you have been through it must be hard to find the new "normal".
One baby step at a time, one breath at a time, keep moving forward. We are here and I continue sending love, light and healing thoughts your way. (That includes all of your family.)
xoxo
And here we have it. At a time in life when we ask ourselves "Why? What IS the point of all of this?" Some of us become overwhelmed and simply seek peace from the pain. Others of us struggle to find new reasons.

You've expressed this journey with this piece so very well Terri :).

Rated for insight.
I'm finding Matt's comment very interesting. I was led to believe that the impulse is rare. It's a very sensible seeming and common impulse to me ,but like you it must always stay in thought, as long as those who will be destroyed by it are still alive. As hard as it is, we are duty bound to survive, for those who couldn't bear us dying, I'd guess. Who knows, LL. I just hope that some peace and joy can return to your life as soon as possible.
You have been through so much loss. Life has to get better for you...
I hear so much pain and suffering in your post and rightfully so. It's only been a handful of weeks since you've lost him. Continue experiencing he pain, cry as much as you want, and write all about it. As hard as it is, this is all a part of the "healing" process. Although you will never completely heal, the pain you're going through now will come to an end eventually, but don't expect it to end within a year. I feel so bad for you and for every mother who has lost a child.
Peace and loving thoughts to you, LL
L.L. - It sounds so trite - but it gets bearable. I know. Been there.

Do what you're doing and take it day by day.
You're wise. Wise to think it all through so clearly, to feel it so deeply, to understand and share it. And to remember those you haven't lost.

Remember, whatever he felt then, his fear is gone now. I think that you have felt his presence is a sign he does understand.
Who hasn't had those thoughts, dear, and times are hard for you now but they will get better by and by and your other children need you.
Terri, I have been where you are. It used to sound so ridiculous when people would say that time heals. It doesn't heal, but it makes it bearable. I don't think your son was scared. He was surrounded by people who loved him deeply and he carried that with him. Someone once told me after my sister died that maybe she left because she could help me more if she was on the other side. Perhaps this is what your son is doing for you. It doesn't ease your pain. But gives you something to think about. Love always to you.
I haven't found a really good reason to kill myself yet, so I just keep going. (And it's kind of scary to contemplate. )

There are too many beautiful things in life. There are a lot of hard things, which is why the thought hovers, but I usually find a person who would be sad if I were gone. Not to mention my cat.

Keep looking for the beautiful. You'll find it again. Virtual hug.
"it sucks you in like a backwards balloon" So well said. When I thought I was going to disappear into despair I went to the movies. Johnny Depp and the Pirates took me to another place for awhile and when I came out I could stop sobbing a little. Don't break LL. We all need you.
There is a strong statistical correlation between a parent's suicide and the subsequent suicide of his/her child.

It's a tragedy the next generation finds almost impossible to overcome.

for that reason alone I would never take that act. I don't want my daughter to follow in the same example, no matter what my current pain.
The source of the pain was different, but I have had such thoughts during periods of intense stress. I have never seen this journey through healing expressed so eloquently.

Lezlie
I know how you are feeling, I was there after my dear husband died.
I knew I would never do it but every night when I went to bed I would replay that old bedtime prayer. "If I should die before I wake" it would not be such a bad thing. I moved away from that dark place but I will never forget it. My heart and love and prayers go out to you at this time.
rated with love
To not "think" about it would not be human, but too many people love you and count on you, to give it more than a passing thought. I can only say it will get better, and you have heard that many times already. My heart goes out to you and your family, my friend.
Honest and raw, I think, as you are here is better, perhaps more useful, than some people's attempts to mask feelings when so very sad. Bless you and heal, please. r.
I'm so sorry for your loss and terrible pain. I wish you love and strength.
Mel and I have been where you are right now and yes, the thought of suicide does come very quickly to mind and it seems so inviting....that ending of pain...of sorrow, but at what price. We go on...some days better than others.....and we live. Suicide is not an answer, it's an escape.
I am so very sorry for your loss, Terri. The hard truth is that the path through grief is not predictable, it has twists and turns no one can tell you about ahead of time. And as you've already discovered, it's really common for family members to all grieve in different ways, often in conflict with each other.

The best analogy I've ever seen is that grieving any loss is like moving a giant pile of rice, one grain at a time. You don't get a shovel or even a spoon, you often don't even know how big the pile is. You just keep moving one damn grain at a time. You can turn your back on the pile for a while when you need to, but it will still be there until you move it.

Some day you'll realize it's smaller, and some day it will be moved. But no one can tell you when.

Matt Paust said it best--we all have promises to keep, and miles to go before we sleep.
One more thing, Terri... don't let anyone tell you how you "should" feel. We do a terrible job of dealing with death, grief, and loss in our society. We love happy endings, we love sitcoms that tie up their stories in half an hour with commercial breaks. As a society, we'd love to put grief in a box and say you "should" be done by some arbitrary date. Hogwash. You need to feel what you feel, regardless of some timetable anyone else might have in mind.

We have your back, Terri.
Your wisdom is a gift to the world. I hope you keep giving it.
I am so sorry. Your words have impact. I hope you can find some comfort in that.
It's understandable these thoughts are coming...beautiful way you have of writing through them.
Every word you have written, speaks to me so clearly hon. I know EXACTLY where you are right now. Yeah, I've had that fleeting moment too. We shouldn't fear that, but let it come and go and grow from it. Keep writing, even if its in a journal no one will ever see.

Everyday I make myself laugh, even if I don't want to, even if I'm angry, tired or whatever. Its not easy, but it does help, even if for a little while.

Big hugs and please be good to yourself.
i was laid down on railroad tracks...then ran like hell when I felt the train coming.
should have been "I once laid down on railroad tracks..."
"i sound like a broken record"
not at all, you sound like a grieving mom. (((LL2)))
keep writing
LL it is much too soon to expect anything of yourself. Just try to comfort yourself as best you can. Thoughts come and go, those here who have been there have attested to that. Sending love and strength, be gentle with that heart, many here love you.
So raw and honest, Terri. It's harder to keep going than it is to end the pain, but suicide just passes on the pain to others. You are so strong and we stand with you, side by side.
Yes, he understands. You did nothing wrong, and if what you did was in his best interest, then you did the only thing a mother could ever do. Sometimes, doing what is best for the person we love more than anything is the most excruciating thing we can do - but it is selfless.

As I'm typing this, "What a wonderful world" comes on the radio. It's for you. I hope someday you will feel this way.
You are turning into a French philosopher, LL. This post, in a way, invokes Camus & Sartre.

Poached from Wikipedia because I wanted something more solid than memories of high school essays:

"Absurdism:
The French-Algerian absurdist philosopher Albert Camus saw the goal of absurdism in establishing whether suicide was necessary in a world without God. For Camus, suicide was the rejection of freedom. He thinks that fleeing from the absurdity of reality into illusions, religion or death is not the way out. Instead of fleeing the absurd meaninglessness of life, we should embrace life passionately.

Existentialist Sartre describes the position of Meursault, the protagonist of Camus' L'Etranger who is condemned to death, in the following way:

The absurd man will not commit suicide; he wants to live, without relinquishing any of his certainty, without a future, without hope, without illusions ... and without resignation either. He stares at death with passionate attention and this fascination liberates him. He experiences the "divine irresponsibility" of the condemned man.[2]"

Citations:
Wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy_of_suicide
Terri, I agree with Patricia. You life has value. Your grief is normal. I cannot stress enough that you child would want you to go on and honor his life by keeping his cherished memory alive. I hope that you find some comfort in knowing that you can heal. The holidays are particularly difficult. I hope you will have friends around you.
I could always help him,
I always helped him when he called

but what I did letting him go

was what he needed then.

Does he understand?


yes of course. stop worrying about it. he would say
"mom/ma/mother ,
wouldya cut it out?"

you know that.

this is the honor u do to a boy u gave life to
who loved life so much and fought so hard
to keep it but

had to let go.

life is about augmenting life.
any life u augment will be the richer for it.
cuz u are beautiful to the core, and also

becuz u know the WORST PAIN in the damn world,
the loss of a child.

you have such potential now to be
an empathic healer.

so dont waste it in selfishness.

love james
Grief, disappointment, loss put us all in different places and often it can be the place you describe. The thing is as long as you are loved and needed, there is something to feel a part of and tomorrow is the opportunity to feel differently.
Not that it is the answer for everything, but I listen to audio dharma talks on my iPod on the way to and from work. The Insight Meditation Center in Redmond, CA, has these weekly talks and post them, available also in the iTunes for podcast subscriptions (free!). Anyhow, today I was listening to one, and the speaker (Gil) addressed that the events in Japan had just happened, and how do we deal with such devastation and loss, especially when perhaps a loved one is involved or close by? He said something, that living on hope is not enough. That we have all been taught to just keep hoping, and that doesn't teach us how to deal with devastating loss, or confront reality of real hardship. There is no miracle to pray for, just survival and the chance to be free of such deep pain somewhere down the road. But how do we get to that road?
My road toward buddhism began slowly after my father died unexpectedly when I was in college. It was not an easy fix, or an answer, or an admonition to pray. It was tools for me to use to address my own suffering, and learn to have compassion for myself and others. I will not begin to pretend there is a podcast on there that will ease your pain, but I know that over time, just listening to him talk, I have internalized so much about letting go of the suffering part, sitting with the pain, accepting it for what it is, and allowing myself to feel it- instead of trying to swim away from it. Your son's death is an emotional tsunami. Somehow, you still get to live and feel all the hurt, and also remember the love. He's fine where he has gone, and surely he remains close by in heart and spirit. The pain will wash over you and ripple around and slowly wash away, and come back, and recede again, like more waves. There is no cure, and time heals but does not undo. One day, when you least expect it, you will wake up and your heart will feel less heavy. This is just how it works. One day, every day, gently, with compassion for yourself.
I really get it. Wanting to commit suicide is always about yourself. Deciding that you can't do it is always about the ones you love. Eventually, the pain scars over a bit and it's not as acute, at least not all the time. That's what you hang on for.
Our daughter died twenty six years ago. Even when the pain doens't ever go away, let me try to make this clear, it is, after all, only pain. And pain, is only pain, and nothing more than that.
Thank you all I could not find time earlier to comment but I am just trying to find ways to cope and I think hoping that through my working through all this pain, hurt, here on OS I may help someone else who feels alone going through the same type of pain.
It would help me make sense of this in a strange twisted way.
I am going no where but if we don't speak of how we feel how will others know we all feel the same way?
Thank you everyone for standing with me as I don't think I could stand alone this time.
I just don't know what to say here LL. But I feel this way too sometimes...
Aagghh! Don't even THINK about it, sister...I'M not taking care of that guy in your living room. In fact, he'd be out on the sidewalk before you were cold. Not to mention, if I call the cemetery for ANOTHER plot, they're going to start getting suspicious. Uh-uh.

Speaking of, we stopped by the cemetery to "visit" Joe today, & took some rocks -- a few pieces of quartz -- & made a border. I love the elephant! (I don't know if you realize an elephant is part of the town's motto.)

I have no magic formula to offer for getting past sadness or despair. I have gone back to pretending he's in China. Today was even a shitty roadkill day. On the ride in to bowling, it looked like half the animals in the county must've wandered in front of a truck at the crack of dawn. I am having a hard time writing cheery Christmas cards, that's for damned sure.

Keep remembering that your family loves you. And there are so many wise, lovely comments on here! As for Joe being afraid, I really don't think he was, I think he was on another plane early on. We are all second-guessing how we could have had a better ending to his story here, but the truth is, we all did the best we could, the best we know. Sometimes holding a hand is all we can do. love you.
Oh, Terri! As others here have said, each in his or her own way, you keep putting one foot in front of the other for the ones who are still here, who love you. That doesn't mean it's easy. Sometimes it's really bloody godawful hard, when all you want is for the pain to stop and it seems that there's no way out but...out.
I'm glad you're not seriously contemplating suicide but the thoughts are natural and it's probably healthy for you to express them in writing. I hope our sympathetic responses give you at least a small amount of solace.
I am remembering, now, a dear friend. former teacher and later colleague of mine, ordained since his mid-twenties. He has been a chaplain in hospitals and prisons; faced all manner of darkness in the lives of others. When Rev. G's teenaged son died, though (a suicide) he was oh so lost. He tells me that he thought of "following" his son.
All this to say that no amount of wisdom, faith or enlightenment can "immunize" any of us against the depth of that sort of primary mourning pain. We just get through it, one moment at a time, and, somehow, we live for love, which is really the only reason that means anything.
I wish you solace and strength, with a growing awareness of the love that's still here for you, along with the love of your two wonderful sons, whose love for you is eternal...
I think 'most' of us have visited this place in our lives, if not once-probably many times if we allow ourselves to truly live, feel and love. My only words for you, are to please know you are not alone...virtual hugs are being sent your way as I write these words. The ache in my heart tonight is for you, in hopes that I can take a bit of your pain away...even if for just a moment.
I believe that if a person wants that option, it should be an option. I probably could never kill myself, leave too many people behind who would be in too much pain by my action!!

~hug~

Rated!
I relate to this and again you have expressed it so beautifully.

Time doesn't heal or take away our pain, but it does soften the edges and give us a chance to work on acceptance.

Life is a journey for us all whether it be a short or longer road and as travellers we need to keep going to see what may lie ahead.

Keep writing and keep your faith.
I'd say Listen to Torrito. I have not been anywhere near where you are but I love you and I liked his/her advice- having been where you are.
You've been on my mind and in my prayers, LL2. There's so much good advice here, I hope you find some peace in those messages and know that you are loved and cared for.

Healing is a very long process - we know only in retrospect how we rushed towards it when the pain was so deep. May strength and patience be among your companions through your journey of grief.

R♥
You do not sound like a broken record, just a broken spirit for now.

You do not walk this grief alone, and those who are not experiencing it are being guided gently through it with you. With expression comes healing. You express and we all heal. Thank you.