Well, I've been posting here on Open Salon for several months now (joined back in the good old Beta days), and it's time to give a little feedback, both to the site, and to my fellow posters. Here are some changes I'd like to see.
Improve ability to subscribe to friends' content. First and foremost, let me say this: Stop fucking emailing me every time you put up a new post, people. Now, that's going to sound harsh, and for those who have done this, please don't be offended. I understand the desire to have people read your content, and the frustration when you compose a great post, and then no one bothers to give you a thumbs up or post a comment on it. But I want my inbox to be a place for dialogue between myself and other individuals, not just a place for you to promote your material to a mailing list of random people. There are exceptions to this rule, of course - if you post something very similar to what I've written recently, and would like a cross-link, that's fine. If you want my specific feedback on a post, because you know I have some knowledge of the topic (football, comic books, video games, etc), that's fine too.
Anyway, it's not your fault. It's the site's fault, because they don't really give you a good mechanism for managing your ever-growing friends list. If I have 4 particularly prolific blog friends, theirs are usually the only posts I see in my little "Friends' Recent Posts" side bar when I click "View Blog". What I'd like to see is a better way to group all my friends' posts in one location, sort of like my own personal "Cover" page. And I don't just want the most recent post, I want a chronological list. If a friend posts twice in a day, I want to know that. I'd also like the ability to "tag" certain friends as more high interest than others. For example, I have 4-5 fellow posters who are my favorites, so I'd like a way to group their content separately (again, my own personal "Editor's Choice"). Yes, I realize I can subscribe via RSS and use Google Reader, but that defeats the point of coming to Open Salon, as I want to manage the posts within THIS interface.
If you read it, rate it. Again, people send inbox pleas for others to check out their blog, because it's hard getting your content in front of people. It's really depressing to put effort into a post and get zero feedback from folks. If you read a post, and it's decent, give it a thumbs up and/or leave a comment, for God's sake. I crave those little thumbs, because they're proof that someone out there actually took the time to read my post. If you don't like what I've posted, I want to know that too! That's something that I want you to message me in my inbox about. Tell me if I'm wrong about something, tell me if you think a post isn't up to snuff in terms of content or writing style.
Tell me who likes me. It'd be nice if I could see which posters have added me to their friends list. It helps give me a sense of the type of reader who my content appeals to, plus it provides another mechanism for me to find content that I might enjoy as well (in other words, if you like me, maybe I'll like you back). update: thanks to people in the comments section, who pointed out that you can do this via "edit my account". Let's consider this a usability issue, as the feature is sort of buried in a place I wouldn't think to look for it.
Improve ability to peruse past posts. Another complaint I have is the difficulty I have trying to see previous posts. Right now, it's all on one page, and you sort of have to go slowly page by page, looking for content. I can't, for example, search a friend's blog for all posts tagged "football". I can't easily get to a post he/she created 3 months ago. Take a look at the nested navigati0n system available on Blogger (see my other blog for an example) to see how they group posts by month and allow you to expand the tree and instantly see the post titles for that month.
Add ability to directly delete and edit comments. I shouldn't have to click 3 times to get to a menu where I can manage comments left on my blog. Also, if I comment on someone else's blog, I should have the ability to edit my original comment or delete it, if I so choose. Put a little pencil next to comments I leave, so I can instantly edit, and put a little trash can next to the comments I have the power to remove, so I can just click away trollish comments or remove my own stupid comments when I want.
Fix some basic tech glitches. Here's a few examples, though it's not a comprehensive list.
- Small complaint, but the code that opens the login box is a little sketchy. First of all, it doesn't "Remember Me", even though I ask it to, so I'm always having to log on each day.
- Second, when there's embedded video on the cover, the video covers up part of the login box.
- The site is slow to refresh. I'll look at new messages in my inbox, then go back to the main page, and yet the little drop down thing STILL says that I have new messages in there.
Do some basic usability improvments as well. Small complaints again, but making a few chnages can make the site a lot nicer.
- For example, having the inbox notification right on my top navigation bar, instead of nestled inside the "More" menu, would make it easier to know when I have new messages. For awhile, I didn't even really realize the inbox feature was there.
- Having a more robust "topics" section would also be nice (or, perhaps have a menu drop down directly from the Topics button, allowing me to instantly jump to any default topic available when you create a new post).
- The "post comment" button needs to be at the bottom of the comments section (or at both the top and bottom). I like to read all the other comments before I add my two cents - it's simply more respectful to listen to what others have said before pontificating on your own opinion.
- Consider perhaps threaded comments as well, as many writers enjoy responding directly to the posters in their comments section.
- Open Salon, Google, etc.
- What Open Salon is for
- Why I hate [some] software (and why you should, too)
- An Open Salon lexicon - per this, I am a "blog pimp" for promoting these articls :)
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I see Salon not as a technical site but a salon in the oldest sense of the term: a collection of artists and writers who exchange their work. We expect better tech opportunities in this age, I know, and I agree with many of your points here. I am frustrated at trying to find friends and previous posts I have commented upon and then lost track of. My button alerting me that someone has added me as a friend does not work.
I do not agree with your attitude about emails. You acknowledge the difficulties in the site but give folks no room to try to get around those problems. If someone wants to send me a mass email, go ahead! It gives me the opportunity to email them in return when I post. Perhaps we need a "do not email list".
On the whole, I see this young site listening to our suggestions and often improving the site to please us. It is a process and I welcome your post as a part of that process.
thanks for posting! rated
Although I have no friends, I can see were it would be useful to have more control over those areas. I would not advocate the ability to edit comments on other people's blogs. Not having an edit ability keeps me on my toes and ensures I think about what I am about to say before I start typing. Yes, the occasional typo does sneak in but that happens to us all.
(rated)
I do agree that the site is slowly improving, since my previous complaint list from awhile ago involved breaking out new post notifications from the activity feed. So kudos to Open Salon for that.
Another suggestion (heh, now that I've posted this, the ideas are just flowing out) is the ability to be notified when people comment in your blog. I have no way of knowing if an older post (one is that is now buried several pages back in my post listing) has received new comments.
When I get a mass email, I know that I am on someone's friend list and I like that. There is no other way to "collect random emails" that I know of.
People use their thumbs for their individual reasons. No rule on this that I know. A comment can usually tell you if someone liked or did not like your post.
Love this as I know that OS reads these. thanks again for posting.
I'd also like to see the RATE and Flag buttons moved to align with the POST COMMENT area. I'm one of those people that has a reminder at the end of almost every post for people to please rate if they liked the content. If the Rate and Flag were near the comment box, it would probably not be necessary.
Rated/thumbed/whatchamacallit.
Bill, I love your suggestion and second it. Have the rate it/flag it icons at the bottom of the post as well.
I'm with o'stephanie re: emails. I don't get that many, and I don't mind them. I've made you, many others, a friend because I like to read these posts. The emails have helped me catch a few I might have missed.
As far as notification of comments and friends, I get an email anytime someone comments or adds me as a friend in my regular mail account. I like this, because I don't have to keep checking my own stuff when I come here.
Yeah, I'm an egomaniac who wants everyone to read my stuff and love it for the brilliant commentary that it is :). I wish there was a better way to get more reads without being a pest. I sent my first, and only, "read request" to my friends list yesterday and worried that I would piss someone off. The reactions were positive. I suppose I'm still developing my "following."
Sometimes I rate, sometimes I comment, sometimes both. I guess I'm capricious. This time, I'll comment and rate. Good post.
While we're at it, I wish we could have page views on our posts or at the very least, on our blogs. I realize that not everyone feels like rating or comment but it would be helpful to see how many people at least click on it to read.
Also, while I try to read stuff from all of my friends along with new OSers, it would be nice to be able to readily find new posts from the people that I truly "follow".
Lastly, I wish you could bookmark a post and come back to it later. Sometimes I click on something and it's too lengthy to read right now but I want to come back to it. I've been writing down the titles, but sometimes even that takes more time than I can spare.
Look at the list of headlines in the “latest” category—and read what you think interests you. If you see something that deserves comment—then comment. The “highest rated” is nonsense—a popularity contest rather than an indication of style and substance. I’ve seen very, very prosaic essays rated—so what the hell does a rating mean? Mostly it means that some people will "rate" shit!
Navigating through blogs or threads of interest is very difficult in this site—perhaps the most difficult journey of all the sites where I’ve participated. Something should be done to make follow up easier to accomplish. If I publish a blog—I can follow it easily; but if I participate with a comment in someone else's blog, I’ve gotta go through hell to get back to look for follow-up to my comment. That sucks. Almost as much as all this emphasis on ratings!
http://www.bloglines.com
Kerry did say a few weeks ago in a comment on Kent Pittman's post about OS upgrades that "... With the next major upgrade we're shooting to create indexes for you to slice the content any way you want to, so you can see the 50 Top Rated Posts In The Past 4 Hours -- or really, whatever you really are most interested in finding. But that's going to take more time to develop, so don't look for it next week. I'll warn you when that train is leaving the station." So there are plans for improvements in the works.
Frank, it's about asking for more feedback. I don't post here to talk AT people, but rather to talk WITH people. Getting a sense of readership size, how people feel about what I've posted, etc, allows me to become a better writer. It allows me to figure out how best to connect with the community, by showing me what content is liked and which isn't. If people don't want to hear about a particular topic, why would I waste my time pontificating about it?
Erica, I've considered adding a category on my Google Reader for the Open Salon people I like, but I would prefer to have the interface here improved. By only subscribing to my friends, I feel I'd be less likely to visit this site, and would therefore miss out on good content.
What OpenSalon has done very well is get us to come back regularly, allow us to post without censorship, and to reach out easily to the editors of the site. This last part trumps technology.
....there are posts that slip under the radar.
Andrew, that's exactly why I posted this. I complain because I care. I post this because I hope that perhaps the editors will take some of my feedback (and the excellent feedback others have provided in the comments here) and perhaps implement some of what I've asked for. I really like Open Salon, and since I plan to stick around, I figured I'd ask for some things that would make my stay even more rewarding :D
Love this place, but then I have said that before...
Good piece. We need to keep this conversation going.
(thumbified - I'll message you later. ::gigglesnort::)
I don't mind the emails at all. If I have time, I'll go check out a post, then delete.
And while I understand the impulse, I also believe that writing is its own reward. Feedback is great, but mostly I've written something I want to write, and with luck, have done it well. I figure, if other people read it and enjoy it, that's a bonus.
Same with rating. I don't do it automatically, and I prefer the anonymity of the rating section. Often, I rate and don't comment as I have nothing to add. If I don't rate something, it's because I don't think it merit's inclusion on today's "Best of" section. (One I rarely make, I might add.)
I do, however, agree about fixing the ability to subscribe to other people's blogs. There are writers whose posts I am particularly interested in and it's not easy, right now, to see if they've added something new.
There's my 2 cents.
I've never understood the point of the "relationship" distinction when adding Friends. I'd rather have the ability to rate someone by how much I like their blog (which could then be used to sort my friends list later). My real life friends and family read my content on the other blog, so every person I "meet" here is a stranger.
And also, I meant to clarify: While I don't mind getting emails, I don't send them out. (I did once, but it wasn't about my own post. It was for Leonce Gaiter's Prop. 8 post, which was brilliant.)
It would also be interesting to be able to rate a post on a sliding scale, instead of a binary thumb/no thumb. Like, the ability to rate a post between 1-5 stars.
In all events, your timing was great since you saved me a lot of time today. Thanks!
What hyblaen said was what I want most, a way to follow the comments I made. It would be nice to follow conversations. I'm sure there are people that post comments on articles in other people's blogs - in a conversation that I participated in - weeks after an entry has been published, but there's no way that I'd ever know about it.
I don't mind the mailings. Maybe we could all agree on a word to include in the subject line that would tip off the receiver that it was a notice of a new post. Like WHORING, or MY PIMP MADE ME DO THIS. That way if someone was uninterested, they wouldn't have to open the mail and could nuke it unopened.
Either the coders have been told to back off or they are just lazy.
Sorry High Sheriffs but if you had really wanted to keep up the excitement generated at the launch of OS you should have been making incremental changes every week.
But there is another issue that hasn't been addressed - the PeopleAggregator software that underlies OS. When announced it was the next big thing with features and architecture that made fans of Content Management quiver with delight. In the intervening years however, independent development in PA has been sparse. WordPress, MovableType, all the flavors of Nukes, and Joomla! (to name a few) have tens of thousands of coders building improvements and useful widgets. In a practical sense this means that deciding that PA is the platform for OS, the available pool of coding talent is very small and, for many tiny improvements (like a pencil icon in comments/post for quickie editing) have to be written from scratch. OS likely is not evolving in the way many of us want to see because the few coders we have (I think it's 3) are facing the daunting task of reinventing the wheel hundreds of times over.
What drove the decision to go with the PeopleAggregator software, I wonder? I have no opinion one way or the other on it (not spun up enough to be knowledgeable about pros/cons yet), but you do wonder about a code base that ignores basic usability and design things common to most popular blog publishing site such as Blogger and WordPress.
Honestly I would have been intrigued myself were I on the original selection committee. PA looks awesome on paper. Check out its potential at:
http://www.broadbandmechanics.com/
It has "big" names behind it. It's designed for transparency across multiple systems. Totally widgetized. Yet you can find tech questions, asked by one of the OS coders, during the alpha phase, on the PA site that were never answered. I fear there was a sales pitch back when and the amount of knowledge Salon Media Group brought to bear regarding php systems was sorely lacking. Salon today itself is a result of reworking years of meticulous code. It may have been thought that they could just "do that again".
Maybe with the glut of excellent CMS systems out there PA was just one toke over the line and just failed to attract coders. Remember all of these, including PA, are Open Source. That's what makes CMS so exciting. You can find a widget, written by someone anywhere in the world, plug it into your site and improve/change it if that is your wont.
It's wonderful that PA has such an elegant architecture but there's no fan-base out there writing stuff for it; just a handful of Salon staffers who dutifully do their chores and go home at 5 on Friday. Look at the crazy fans of Wordpress and all they have done. Those people aren't doing it for a paycheck, they're doing it for passion.
Two final points,
- we have no idea what security considerations went into the choice. Security, scalability and robustness are major concerns of every CMS on the market. Every one struggles with them with varying amounts of success.
- Switching OS to something else would cost tens of thousands and a massive disruption. Conversely fixing OS to be on par with even a tiny player like WordPress will cost the same tens of thousands with the downside being there aren't thousands of PA hackers out there to help debug and make improvements.
It doesn't bode well, I'll be honest with you.
Great work.
rated "T" for true
Maybe it's just Firefox, but I'm having no troubles at all. If I find a poster I want to follow, I click on the RSS, my "bookmark page" window comes up, and I put the link in my "OS Bloggers" file. My OS Bloggers file is in turn filed in my "Bookmarks Toolbar" file, so it's showing on my browser toolbar at all times. To check for new posts, I click on the Toolbar OS Bloggers icon, the list comes up, and I scroll down the list. As I hover over each poster, a list of their 5 most recent posts come up, with one icon for posts I've already read, and a different icon for posts I haven't read. This also makes it easy to go back to previous posts you've commented on and see what's going on since your last visit.
So I don't know if it doesn't work that way in other browsers, but it works great in Firefox. Give it a try.