Barbara O'Brien

Barbara O'Brien
Location
New York, USA
Birthday
October 01
Bio
Barbara O'Brien blogs at Mahablog, Buddhism.About.com and the Mesothelioma and Asbestos Awareness Center.

Editor’s Pick
JUNE 24, 2009 4:47PM

Should Middle-Aged Men Hold Public Office?

Rate: 28 Flag

So Gov. Sanford admits to having an affair. Gov. Sanford, I note, was born in 1960, which would make him 50 next year.

I bring up his age because recently we’ve seen the usual drivel from some troglodytes objecting to the nomination of a woman to the Supreme Court because her judgment might be impaired by menstruation or menopause. When are we going to start worrying about the instability of middle-aged men?

I realize that anecdotes are not data. However, I have never personally met a woman of menopausal age — and I’m past that point myself — who blew off her life because of hot flashes. But I’ve known, and have known of, a number of men aged 45-60 whose lives crashed and burned because of sex.

In most cases they didn't just throw away their marriages; they also lost jobs and wrecked careers. Relationships with children, friends and other family members were irreparably strained or severed.  Yes, older women can behave just as foolishly, but it seems to be much less common. We women tend to go through our self-destruct phase when we’re much younger.

I remember one of my former college professors who left a wife, two children, and a tenured faculty position to run off with a student, who then dumped him a few months later. Another academic of my acquaintance burned a plum position at a prestigious university and years of hard-won professional contacts when he left his wife for a student. A man I used to call a good friend lost every one of his friends after he abruptly left his wife (also a good friend) for a younger woman. Yes, the younger women were involved in the affairs, too, but they had nothing to lose.

Think about all the well-known politicians who either wrecked their careers or compromised their offices because they took chances with sex. We snicker at "family value" conservatives who get caught, but you know this happens all across the political spectrum.

Even if you think another person's sex life is no one else's business, I say that risk-taking behavior in someone with big responsibilities ought to be a concern. Think of what was squandered recently by, for example, John Edwards and Eliot Spitzer. They didn't just betray their families; they betrayed all of the people who worked in their campaigns and who voted for them.

What’s often remarkable to me is how reckless some prominent men's  behavior can be when so much is at stake in their lives, their ambitions, their work. In some cases they aren't just taking chances with their own lives; they are taking chances with their countries. Yet they can’t seem to help themselves.

I realize that most men — I don’t think — go down this path. But it happens often enough that I wonder why we don’t make an issue of the potential instability of middle-aged men.

 Update: I see a lot of men taking offense where I didn't intend it, and I'd like to elaborate a bit more. 

I don't think most middle-age men are unstable (the title was tongue-in-cheek), nor do I think men who have affairs are always "bad." As I said in one of the comments, I think sometimes their emotions catch them off guard.

Love -- eros-- has a way of sneaking up on us and smacking us on the head when we're sleepingwalking through our emotional lives. This has happened to me, too. It's one way we send messages to ourselves to  stop going through the motions and wake up. Having read Gov. Sanford's emails to his mistress I suspect that's what happened to him, and I can commiserate.

However, he was still a governor, and it says something that he didn't have more self-control than to run off to South America for a week.

I also assume that women have affairs about as often as men do, but women appear to be less likely to crash their lives because of it. Whether that's because we're more cautious or because we tend to be more in touch with our emotions and less likely to be caught off guard by them I cannot say.

But I say again, it's not the sex, but the recklessness, that's a concern.

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I've often thought this. You wrote it--beautifully.
Excellent question and examination. The double standard continues to flourish. In my experience, many men go through these kinds of "crises" and the costs can be very high for their families. One of my old school friend's husband left her for his 21-year-old legal secretary, ripped the family apart, became estranged from his children (one of whom was older than his new love) and more or less bankrupted his family and law practice. My friend worked very hard to ensure that the children had a good relationship with their father, but mostly, he didn't want to see his kids. When the new girlfriend dumped him about a year later, he wanted to come back to my friend. To her credit, she seriously considered it for the good of the family but ultimately declined. She simply wasn't willing to go through that much pain again.
It's only sex....Democrats response to Bill Clinton straying. I think women are more suited to govern, less suited to wage war. Unfortunately war is a reality....
LOL Just your title sent me into hysterics! I nearly choked on my Caramel Frappuccino! I love it that you have spoken the truth! Idiots!
I am going to be rather abrupt here…but the situation calls for directness.

Why don't we all just get our heads out of our collective asses...and recognize that men do these kinds of things? Why don’t we stop making a big thing of it?

Men in powerful positions are particularly susceptible because they get pussy thrown at them from all directions…and when it is thrown at you, it is goddam near impossible to resist.

In one of the Soprano’s episodes, Tony says to Carmella: “You knew how things were and are with us (meaning wiseguys)…you knew!”

The women married to these men…these driven, successful, politicians…KNOW that these guys are gonna have as much ass thrown at them as a rock star or ball player. They have accepted the reality…and they can deal with it when it comes to fruition.

But for us out here to get all worked up over the fact that politicians like to have their dicks sucked makes no sense whatever! That they like to have it sucked by lots of different women should not surprise us either.
You are absolutely right! Until we can get a balance of power though there won't be enough people asking this question.
Here's the perfect image: Chevy Chase in Vacation driving next to Christie Brinkley in that red corvette.
Here's the reality- just about any younger woman who shows interest in a middle aged man can easily get him to drop his drawers and leave his family. thumb up on this.
Maybe they should offer Off Track Betting where WE the people can wager (and earn) money betting on which politicians will stray and who won't. At least we can make money while getting screwed. EXCELLENT post.
In answer to your question: I'm thinking not
Power-tripping white men who buy into the Jesus(tm) myth and are open to graft/corruption should be EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN from holding public office of any kind, from crossing guard to President.

Men are useless, stupid animals who exist only to pollinate and die. The rest of the time they're making trouble, and those who drift into politics are the worst of all.
Very well said!!!
The women married to these men…these driven, successful, politicians…KNOW that these guys are gonna have as much ass thrown at them as a rock star or ball player. They have accepted the reality…and they can deal with it when it comes to fruition.

Sorry, you guys don't get off that easily. The women I know whose husbands were caught having affairs were devastated. Their children were devastated. The "boys will be boys" line is, well, for boys, not men.
Hmmmmm, good point. Maybe men should be at least 60 before being considered for this level of leadership. By then, our testosterone is lower, our kids are grown, most young women remind us of our daughters and if we're lucky we're mature. Go figure. I mean guys like Geo W Bush. Damn. Never mind.
Frank, you're right. And I have no problem with it the sex. I just have a big problem with the subterfuge, dishonesty and oh yeah, doing it on the taxpayer nickel. So if the politician in question would say to his soon-to-be-wife and voters: No, I will not promise sexual fidelity. But I will promise no financial malfeasance, and I will not lie to you about my affairs, and if you and the taxpayer can handle this, great, let's get married and I'll run for office, there'd be no problem.

Sex is sex. Lying is something else altogether. And Stanford behaved like a dimwit - you can't get elected governor and expect to go off the grid with your lover and not be accountable! For God's sake, even the mailroom clerk at Acme Company doesn't expect to be able to take an unexplained four day absence while he bangs the receptionist and come back to work and find his job intact, no questions asked.

The issue here isn't about Stanford's dick, it's about is idiocy.
is it about the sex in the politics or the politics in the sex? I think Europe is laughing at us
The past UK prime minister Harold Macmillan once responded to a question on what was most likely to blow a government off course by the quote "Events dear boy, events". As Barak Obama is learning, whatever ideology that could have been leisurely conceived in relative obscurity is quickly tested by events when thinkers, no matter how profound, become politicians. Politics has always been a messy craft, prone to difficult compromise and as Macmillin wrly observed, subject to the flux of popular opinion and inevitable day to day circumstance. There is the a utterly natural tension between ideologies that by definition are immovable, and the compromises that are bitterly adopted to appease the impasse of conflicting human desires. The question is then do the events within a politician's personal life attenuate or accentuate their ability to ride the tension of static ideology versus dynamic events?

I believe that to be human is to undergo sometimes painful, personal change. But despite the chaos within our personal lives we can buckle down to what we are paid to do. Whether or not men are more likely prone to indiscretion in their middle age over women in the youth the fact remains that we are all entirely capable of functioning despite what is going on in our personal lives. Are we to be so bold as to ask our surgeon how solid his marriage is before we elect to undergo surgery. I also believe the stakes are much lower for what we ask of our politicians and in fact there is the possibility that turmoil within the personal lives of our elected representatives is an advantage to the process of political discourse. Every publicly conservative politician who parades his family values only to be exposed as a philanderer must eventually present himself to the glare of media incited opprobrium. This must surely be a positive outcome as it plainly highlights their hypocrisy. Unlike our surgeons we can get rid of them come next election without a backlog at the hospital.

But what if they survive? What if they do make amends to their electorate? They shamefully admit their failures and we consider not only their personal fate but what factors led us to trust them in the first place? Both the politician and ourselves as their electorate have respectfully, the possibility of salvation and wisdom.
Oh, thank God you made the front page! I thought this was great!
Whether or not men are more likely prone to indiscretion in their middle age over women in the youth the fact remains that we are all entirely capable of functioning despite what is going on in our personal lives.

A governor of South Carolina disappearing without notice for a week is not "functioning" despite what is going on in his personal life.

IT ISN'T THE SEX. It's the dysfunction. Read the post. Men trash their entire lives because they take risks with sex. It's the risk-taking that I'm pointing to, not the sex.
Thanks for asking the right question, Barbara. Rated.

By the way, the answer to the question why is sexism.
"But I’ve known, and have known of, a number of men aged 45-60 whose lives crashed and burned because of sex... Think about all the well-known politicians who either wrecked their careers or compromised their offices because they took chances with sex...." and yet "IT ISN'T THE SEX. It's the dysfunction. Read the post"
At best risk-taking, sex, dysfunction, and ruined lives are equated here. Let me ask this: If he took off on a camping trip and nothing sexual was involved how would you feel about it? If he arranged beforehand for a week's absence, took a vacation, and had sex and it was discovered and reported how would you feel about it? If it wasn't reported, how would you feel about it? Should politicians be role models of marital fidelity? I still think Europe is laughing.
I agree with Noah:

"is it about the sex in the politics or the politics in the sex? I think Europe is laughing at us"

First of all, why is having sex such a big issue in the U.S.? People need to lighten up here, and then sex WOULDN'T be such a reckless thing. Why is a career risked because of sex?

I also find it amusing that many women are giving positive feedback on this article. Personally, I just think that many guys just shouldn't get married. The idea in our society that everyone needs to get married and be monogamous all their lives is a problem. (I personally AM happily married, but I don't think EVERYONE should be.)
Oh by the way, I do think Sanford is an idiot and a hypocrite. These right-wingers should really crash and burn not because of sex, but because of their hypocrisy with these issues.
Given the ratios of men to women in government, I would be perfectly willing to have, say, 10 middle-aged white male Senators heaved out on their collective ear if Dianne Feinstein can go, too.
If he took off on a camping trip and nothing sexual was involved how would you feel about it?

If a governor of a state took off for a week, didn't tell anyone where he was, and it turned out he was praying in a monastery the whole time, it's still dysfunction and still reason for concern.

The thing is, it's rare for people to take crazy personal risks to spend a week in a monastery. Or camping, for that matter.

You're in denial, dude.
I would be perfectly willing to have, say, 10 middle-aged white male Senators heaved out on their collective ear if Dianne Feinstein can go, too.

In that case, you can just heave out Feinstein and leave everyone else alone.
Why is a career risked because of sex?

Why don't you ask Silvio Berlusconi about that?
Sandra…I am going to reply specifically to you. I hope Barbara (and the others) reads this response also…because it certainly is aimed at her (and the others) also.

First of all, thanks for taking my remarks seriously. They were intended to be serious.

YOU WROTE: The issue here isn't about Stanford's dick, it's about is idiocy.

But therein lies a clue to a problem many people, especially women, are unwilling to even contemplate.

For certain Sanford knew what was going to happen when he flew the coop.

Spitzer knew he was going to be caught…that the prostitute would ID him and the story would get out.

Mc Greevey knew he was going to be busted…and outted!

Bill Clinton knew that Monica Lewinski was not going to blow him and not brag about it.

I could go on for paragraphs!

They knew they were going to pay a huge price…and they did it anyway!!!!!!

Think about the implications of that. And if you want to be shallow and ascribe it to stupidity or idiocy rather than suspecting there is a more complicated dynamic at work…shame on you.

Sandra, we were all taught in school that humans were the one animal that had no instincts.

I think we were taught wrong…or at least, it appears we were taught incorrectly.

Propagation appears to be instinctive.

Women, the vast majority of women, manifest the instinct in the so-called “mother instinct.” They want to have a baby.

Men manifest it by wanting to help women have babies. (No joke intended here…this is the reality!)

Whatever it is that motivates so many women to put all else aside in their desire to be mothers…apparently motivates men in the direction of spreading seed. The intense desire to fuck is vital to the survival and dominance of our species.

It is an area that has to be studied dispassionately…and it is an area that has to generate a hell of a lot more empathy and understanding than the women here are giving it.

AND NO…NOT EVERY MAN IS controlled by his penis any more than EVERY woman desires to become pregnant. BUT A LOT OF MEN ARE!

They are not idiots…many, in fact, are very, very intelligent and accomplished.

Something else is at work here!
While I don't support the male pigs (full disclosure, I am male) who complain about menopausal women in high office I find your argument just as groundless. First your write "I realize that anecdotes are not data" then you go on cite your personal anecdotes to support your argument. Sorry but personal anecdotes a valid argument do not make as your clearly realize from your statement. As women have less representation in high office, there is no chance to conduct a valid study on this subject. I know that's not the fault of women; I'm just point out a fact. But seeing as women at that age are just a capable of cheating on their husbands as men, I would not be surprised.
I agree with this, actually. It's not the sex that bothers me about men who do this, it's the willingness to trash the rest of their lives around this time that bothers me. It makes them fundamentally untrustworthy in the rest of their lives. I mean, if suddenly you're going to toss your career in a mid-life crisis, where does that leave the citizens who voted for you? If suddenly you're going to wreck your savings buying boats and hot rods and god knows what else, are voters supposed to not suspect that you are possibly as irresponsible with their money? If you're going to just leave and be out of contact at work, how does that inspire confidence???

Now, I recognize that this is a tremendously sexist assertion, but the reality is that men DO this. Why should we consider men any more qualified than women on the basis of their stability (since they're obviously, in general, not)? I think that's the point.
Should middle-aged women be allowed to write stupid, predictable shit?
They knew they were going to pay a huge price…and they did it anyway!!!!!!

In Sanford's case one hopes he knew he was going to pay a price, but in other cases I think the guys thought they could get away with it. It's a kind of weird self-destruction.

It is an area that has to be studied dispassionately…and it is an area that has to generate a hell of a lot more empathy and understanding than the women here are giving it.

I agree it should be studied dispassionately, but I also think you are being way too defensive.

A reader on my personal blog, a male, commented that he had been hit rather hard by midlife himself. Then he said, "guys aren’t well trained in dealing with their 'feelings' when these things hit them, so they can really go off the deep end and not realize what they’re doing." I suspect he's right; to take such risks and wreck your life, you've got to be in the grip of very powerful emotions that are catching you utterly off guard.

So I think as a species we need to talk about this and try to understand why it happens, and maybe prepare guys a little better for what midlife is like for them. Just snickering at the guys who get caught really isn't helpful.

Your idea that men act like this because they are in the grip of reproductive urges actually is less respectful of men than I am.
Barbara wrote: "IT ISN'T THE SEX. It's the dysfunction. Read the post. Men trash their entire lives because they take risks with sex. It's the risk-taking that I'm pointing to, not the sex."

Maybe if our culture didn't place such an incredible premium on monogamy the "risk" you talk about wouldn't be so artificially high.

Barbara, I think you make great points and you talk a lot about "risk" but don't REALLY explain how that "risk" gets created in the first place.

WHY is there so much at stake with sexual fidelity? What is it that actually creates the "risk" you talk about?

The fact is that our society puts an artificially high value on sexual fidelity and that artificially high value is what creates this environment of risk in the first place. (And please don't misconstrue my word here and claim that I'm somehow condoning polyamory for everyone or saying that marriage is just obsolete. I'm not. I'm specifically arguing that the DEGREE of moral value we put on sexual fidelity may be artificially high).

I don't deny that the "risk" you talk about exists. But it's a shame that you don't actually address the fact of what actually causes the risk.

Let's talk about how we can all grow up a little and talk more maturely and practically about marriage and sexual fidelity instead of gloating about how much more "risk averse" women seem to be -- which to me seems to be a pretty superficial argument.
It's not the sex that bothers me about men who do this, it's the willingness to trash the rest of their lives around this time that bothers me.

Exactly. As another commenter said, may be middle aged women are having affairs just as often as men. Could be. But as I keep saying, it's not the sex, it's the recklessness.
As a middle-aged white male, born in 1960 just like Sanford, I...well, I don't know how to feel. I totally take Barbara's point that it's not the sex, it's the dysfunction, yet there is an implicit AND explicit argument in her piece and throughout these letters that this type of dysfunction is just part of being male...and perhaps middle-aged.

Bosh.

I have made this point elsewhere: integrity is key. If you commit to a monogamous relationship, then you owe it to yourself (not to mention every other affected party) to bow out as gracefully as possible if you feel and cannot resist the call of the penis. You must take responsibility, without exception.

To argue that impulsive behavior of this kind is "natural" to men, particularly middle aged, presumably white men, is facile. It might even rate being called an "-ism." Most of my close male friends are white and middle-aged, and none - NONE - of them have betrayed their spouses. None of them are type-A strivers, either, which perhaps has some bearing.

In the meantime, please don't tar us all with the same brush, all you sensitive people out there.
The fact is that our society puts an artificially high value on sexual fidelity and that artificially high value is what creates this environment of risk in the first place.

I don't think the value is artificial, but we can disagree on that. The fact remains that if a person, either sex, falls out of love with a spouse, there is this process called "divorce" you can go through to end the marriage.

If you want to keep the marriage, however, the emotional well-being of your spouse is something that should concern you. If you have both agreed to an open marriage that's your business, but if your spouse expects fidelity, and you aren't willing to give it, then I'd say it's better for both of you to end the marriage. Sneaking around is terribly self-destructive in ways that have nothing whatsoever to do with "society."
Dan O'Brien -- did you bother to read my post all the way to the last paragraph before you had a snit and complained?

The fact is, I don't know whether this behavior is natural or not, and as I said, I don't think most men behave that way. However, it happens often enough that we ought to be thinking about why it happens.
I read your piece and ALL the letters before I had my, ahem, "snit." It seems to me we are agreeing violently.
You are an evil genius ;0)
I'm with Dan O'Brien about this: it's not all men, and please don't tar us all with the same brush.

Of course, it is wrong of Sanford to have betrayed his wife of nearly 20 years, his children and his career in public office. My own father's advice was this; "Don't lose your head over a little piece of tail." Sanford’s betrayal of the people closest to him is exactly why he should not be able to hold office. Who and what else would he betray?

At the same time, there have been a LOT of politicians with their pants around their ankles these days. I wonder if the real problem is that whatever makes someone electable is the SAME THING that allows them to whip it out so easily. Let's follow Frank's thoughts and just chalk it up to Alpha-male hard-wiring to spread our genes far and wide. The female version of that is the baby-crazy 30 year old that can hear nothing but her time-clock ticking. (She exists, please don't deny it.) That aspect of her personality is what makes her unlikely to seek public office, and de-facto, makes her completely un-electable. She never goes into public office.

So, to recap. What Sanford and so many others did was WRONG. It's not about sex, it's about betrayal. Alpha males get to have sex with more women, but just because they can, doesn't mean that they should. Some of them don't seem to have the cajones to keep the rest of the package in their pants. THAT should be why we kick them out of office.

Cheers!
Andy A
emma peel typed: "To her credit, she seriously considered it for the good of the family but ultimately declined." The part that I would say is to her credit is not returning.

T.S. typed unsupported sexism (as usual): "I think women are more suited to govern, less suited to wage war. Unfortunately war is a reality...." I refer you to Golda Meir and Margaret Thatcher, both of whom waged succesful wars. I mean, if any war is ultimately successful. Plus, considering the vast number of men who are national leaders, versus the tiny number of women, any statement about this is purely anecdotal.

Frank Apisa typed the following lovely sentence: "they get pussy thrown at them from all directions…and when it is thrown at you, it is goddam near impossible to resist."
Speak for yourself, Frank. Not they I've been faithful through every relationship, but I know my father, among other men, was ... for 62 years. It's possible.
Then Frank typed the results of his mind rading: "For certain Sanford knew what was going to happen when he flew the coop.
Spitzer knew he was going to be caught…that the prostitute would ID him and the story would get out.
Mc Greevey knew he was going to be busted…and outted!"
Unless you have been speaking with these men, I would refrain from making statements like this.

As to actual research about infidelity, here's some stuff from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidelity):
"Fifty [UK] divorce lawyers were asked to name the most common causes of their cases in 2003. Of those who cited extramarital affairs, 55% said it was usually the husbands and 45% said that it was the wives who cheated."

"82% of gay male couples reported having nonmonogamous relationships, while lesbian couples reported 28%. Rates among older women tripled from 5% in 1991 to 15% in 2006; rates among men rose from 20% to 28%. About 20% of younger men and 15% of younger women say they cheated ... Infidelity studies show that extramarital sex occurs in up to 25% of heterosexual marriages in the USA ..."

" [in the] General Social Survey, a face-to-face interview[,] Atkins' new study of trends over a 15-year period from 1991 to 2006 in which 19,065 people participated found that infidelity rates were climbing among certain age groups: those 60 and older and those 35 and younger. "

Barbar typed: "a male, commented that he had been hit rather hard by midlife himself. "
I have observed--obviously anecdotally--that mid-life crises hit people who have done the same thing since their (mostly early) twenties in terms of marriage and career.
We're headed toward a nanny state, and I mean that literally.

Though the increasing number of women holding public office was initially hailed as a great breakthrough for the gender, it's becoming increasingly apparent that the true reason is that real men are no longer so interested in public office. If men are going to have their balls busted over personal issues (remember what almost happened to one of your favorites, Bill Clinton?) then red blooded males are going to make their mark in Silicon Valley, not Washington. Government will gradually and steadily turn into a clutch of spiritless HOA bake sale ladies.
Frank, I decline to feel ashamed of my remarks, and I don't agree that the thinking behind them is automatically shallow simply b/c it doesn't agree with your world view. I appreciate your passion but you might want to turn down the angry rhetoric a little - it's off putting to have a discussion with someone who comes right out of the gate calling you 'shallow'.
Barbara, it's a deal!
I haven't seen anyone mentioning menstruation or menopause myself, but since you're going down that road, doesn't that make you a troglodyte? You'd think after the example of Hilary Clinton, Boxer, Feinstein, Pelosi and other warmongering troglodytes in office, women would drop the whole "we'd do it better" rant. Face it: women are as bad as men at this government thing.
First of all, I'm a middle-aged white professional male. Secondly, I thought this post was hilarious! Well done.

Hey, it's a blog, not a scientific study. Anecdotal evidence is fine for this type of writing. Reading it with a sense of humor is fine as well...even if it maybe hits a little too close to home for some men.

Andy A's comments about personal responsibility were spot on. We (nearly) all feel those urges to couple with attractive young women. And I tend to agree with those who believe that these urges are TYPICALLY far more powerful in men than in women. But if we are one of those men who have chosen to become a husband and father then we have absolutely no business and no right to act on them. We have made promises that are meaningful and profound.

Using "instinct" or "the way we're wired" to try and excuse breaking those promises minimizes all men. We've got more to us than our libido. Or at least we should.
Bill Michtom, you write,

I have observed--obviously anecdotally--that mid-life crises hit people who have done the same thing since their (mostly early) twenties in terms of marriage and career.

That's an excellent observation. I added some thoughts to the end of the original post that kind of go along with that. In my experience (personal, in part) eros has a way of grabbing people who have long neglected their own emotions and inner lives; who are just sleepwalking though life. It can be a kind of wake-up call.
Don'tBlameGrima wrote,

Using "instinct" or "the way we're wired" to try and excuse breaking those promises minimizes all men. We've got more to us than our libido. Or at least we should.

Hear, hear! (applause)

If anything, saying men are reckless with sex because it's "the way we're wired" is an argument for keeping men out of public office! But I don't think this problem has anything to do with sexual "wiring." I think it's a deeper issue that manifests in a sexual way in some people.
Great post -- and some great comments, too. I strongly disagree with those who believe this is like rock stars being "serviced" by groupies -- if you're young, maybe you think that, but it takes more than just sex to get a guy to put his career and family life at risk. Read Sanford's e-mails, and you'll see the guy had stars in his eyes. He acted like he'd met his soul mate. This wasn't just a case of some guy wanting a quick one-night stand.

I knew of a guy who was a very powerful partner in one of the biggest and most profitable law firms in the world. He fell so hard for an Australian beauty queen that he not only dumped his wife and kids -- but ultimately when the beauty queen lost interest, he ended up calling his wife at all hours sobbing into the phone. He had to be institutionalized for a while, and actually ended up destroying his own career.

I know some guys in their early twenties who cheat on their wives, for whom it's "just sex" -- but with these older guys, I'm sorry it's not "just sex". There's so much more going on, I can't tell you what but I can see these guys aren't behaving in a way we would consider rational.

I also think there's some reason why they're so incredibly reckless -- I think the belief that they can never be caught leads them to be more and more daring, like Gary Hart.
And here's another thing: a very specific reason we should throw adulterers out of office.

Incumbents get a boost at the polls during election times. During the 90's, this boost had risen to "an average of 8%". (http://web.mit.edu/polisci/research/representation/incumb_advantage_elj.pdf)

In 2000, Al Gore (arguably) lost the Presidential election by less than 600 votes in Florida. (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html)

By clinging to his lame-duck Presidency after his affair and not stepping down, Bill Clinton prevented Al Gore from gaining this incumbency bump, and doomed us to at least 4 years of 'W'.

If they can't keep it in their pants, we should kick 'em out of office.

Cheers!
Andy A
Kathleen L -- thank you thank you thank you. I agree with your assessment of Sanford. I think he genuinely fell for the "other woman"; this was not about just sex. Like you, I think there's something else going on, very deep, that causes irrational behavior.
But Andy, Andy, Andy...if we kick those particular guys out, who will be left to represent the White American Male?
I for one commend the governor & his mistress for pulling off a highly improbable long distance relationship, for however short. sometimes, love is like a butterfly.
Barbara: You are absolutely correct. It's not the sex, it's the utter irresponsibility. What would happen to the rest of us if we just took off for a week and didn't tell our employer where we were? That's what needs to be answered for, not the affair.

I've often pondered that sex is just an excuse when men go off the rails at mid-life.

Brava.
"IT ISN'T THE SEX. It's the dysfunction. Read the post. Men trash their entire lives because they take risks with sex. It's the risk-taking that I'm pointing to, not the sex."

I agree, but believe it is the risk-taking that they love. And they do it because they can, I've asked them. My cousin (a male lawyer) has often said, "Never trust two people not to fuck."

I've known men that have told me they love their wives, have no idea what they would do without them and that they mean everything to them. They are their sister, their mother, their wife, and their lover all rolled into one. Yet, this came from a man who screwed around every chance he got, and still does, lives in Beijing and totally has yellow fever. When someone can explain it me, I'm willing to listen because it makes no sense to me.
I don't want to take you to task personally, Barbara, because I've never read your posts or commented before on your blog. But I've seen a number of posts that take this point of view, posts that don't seem to have much understanding of men, or why a man might throw away family and career over a middle-aged fling. I think that, to a certain degree, this kind of post is much more acceptable to the general viewing audience here than one that comes to the defense of the middle-age crazy male.

Being something of a middle-age crazy male myself, I sometimes feel less than accommodated in my ability to express the contrary point of view. On the merits, I tend to disagree with your assessment in your update where you seem to throw your critics a bone by declaring that you don't think most men are unstable. Probably a goodly number of us are. We may respond in a variety of ways that fall short of wrecking the marriage--alcohol, fast cars, climbing Mt. Everest; these are only a few of the ways a man might attempt to cope with aging, fear of death, and waning desire (both his and/or his mate's).

And then, like you say, some men want the whole enchilada (or, more to the point, the fish taco). I number myself among those who, though I have not acted on such a compulsion, have and continue to contemplate such.

I have my reasons, and my reasons make sense to me. As it happens, my wife and I have had many discussions of my desires, my frustrations, my vacilating need to experience sex outside my marriage. She doesn't really understand this need in me. I have spoken to several women friends about my frustrations and they, for the most part, moralize and take offense. One woman suggested that I am greedy: that people (such as she) would do anything to have a 25-year marriage, that for me to have a good marriage and that not be "enough" for me is simply greed. How dare I risk my marriage, how extravagant my desire, how unjust.

I don't know about this Governor Sanford. In fact, fuck Governor Sanford, and the horse he rode in on! But I quite understand how he might have strayed. Knowing nothing about his marriage, I'll posit he wasn't getting something he needed from it. Maybe he wasn't getting enough sex; maybe he wasn't getting the kind of sex he needed from her; maybe she was wearing diamond rings on all ten fingers and he was sleeping on the couch. I, of course, have no idea of the facts. But I don't doubt for a moment that there were circumstances that he simply could no longer live with, and he had the courage or the reckless abandon needed to take action. And I don't blame him for that.

Because no matter how much I love my wife--and make no mistake, I DO love my wife, very much--she is not always there, and she doesn't always understand or accommodate my needs, and I'm not dead yet.

I think the best discussion of this I ever heard was from the movie Moonstruck, where Loretta's mother knows her husband is having an affair. She doesn't quite know what to do, and one night even arranges a "date" with some middle-aged college professor, a serial philanderer who takes advantage of his female students. She asks this man: "Why do man cheat?" He answers "Because they fear death", corroborating a conclusion she has already come to.

I cannot disagree.

Do I hope my marriage remains intact? Of course I do; I don't wish to divorce my wife, and I do not wish for her to divorce me. Our lives are too good. We're a team, a great team. But on the other hand, do I agree to observe my vows for the remainder of my life? I don't know. I don't think my wife always meets me partway. I think I have given her too much power. I don't think our relationship is lived out quite enough on my terms.

And I think I am not so unusual.
I apologize profusely, but the title cracked me up. I was thinking exactly the same thing earlier while watching the Sanford Show.
At least he took the hits alone and rightly so.

It takes political passion to win public office. It takes passion to want to govern. Yet, we are infinitely surprised when equal passion raises it's ugly head in an affair.

The hypocrisy, judgmentalism and absconding with my hard-earned taxes are the greater sins, imo. If he's lucky, his wife will divorce him so he can live the rest of his life in Argentina as his marriage was over long before the affair...

Rated as Well Done!
Rich Banks, you are in essence making the argument that men can't be trusted to have self-control over their impulses and behaviors, even when they are self-destructive impulses that hurt themselves and people they love. I happen to think that's bullshit, but if what you say is true, then I revive my original question -- should middle-aged men hold public office?
Rich, If my husband, who swore up and down that he loved me, was always telling me he wanted to screw around he'd be out the door! I can't believe your audacity. "Oh, Honey, I love you, but you're just not there for me" which is, in essence, telling her she isn't good enough. Are you kidding me? I'd love to see a list from your wife of the times she believes you weren't there for her. Welcome to marriage!

This is exactly what the article is about... And frankly, it isn't just white men. Why should they take all the heat. What about Kwame Kilpatrick of Detroit?
Barbara, I sat with your post for awhile as I couldn’t tell if you were serious or just being funny or satirical. You start off by dismissing the “drivel” about problems with a female candidate for the Supreme Court. You then connected this drivel to a serious statement about middle-aged men. Is this not in fact drivel as well? If it’s troglodytes causing the drivel about female justice candidates, then what causing this question about middle aged men?

I am not trying to be smart or contrarian here. I just don’t see how using one ridiculous opinion (a woman is not suited to be a judge) justifies another opinion (middle aged men unfit for public office). I think you are making fun of the troglodytes and yet you also seem to be serious. I’m just a little perplexed as to which it is. Maybe I’m just a little slower than usual tonight.

Congrats on the EP though!
You then connected this drivel to a serious statement about middle-aged men. Is this not in fact drivel as well?

The title is tongue in check. However, I'm saying that there appears to be a real phenomenon that impacts SOME, not all over even most, middle-age men that really does make them go haywire, whereas I've never seen menopause impact a woman's judgment in any serious way. I think the male midlife crisis phenomenon is something that, at least, we ought to acknowledge and discuss.
i would like to think sanford suddenly realized what a hypocrite he was, how superficial and selfish he was, how empty his life was, and then dived into an affair as a mental lifejacket.

but he's a politician and their self regard is commonly bottomless, so this was probably one more indulgence, one too far for his partner. who, incidentally, is a politician's wife. she probably deserves him.
Andy Ashcraft typed: "In 2000, Al Gore (arguably) lost the Presidential election by less than 600 votes in Florida."

The operative word here is "arguably." According to the collection of media companies (maybe all newspapers, I don't remember) that investigated the election, Gore won.

Andy A. continued: "By clinging to his lame-duck Presidency after his affair and not stepping down, Bill Clinton prevented Al Gore from gaining this incumbency bump, and doomed us to at least 4 years of 'W'."

Do you think, Andy, that the press would not have propagated the lies and nonsense:
- Gore claimed to have invented the Internet
- Gore claimed to have uncovered Love Canal
- Al Gore is so feminized...he's practically lactating. - Maureen Dowd
- Al Gore will do and say anything!
if he were the incumbent? Do you think that the Repubs wouldn't have stolen the election with the help of that BS propaganda?

I think this argument is too far into Hypothesis Land to be worth examining beyond what I just did.

Our hostess, Barbara typed: "I also assume that women have affairs about as often as men do, but women appear to be less likely to crash their lives because of it. Whether that's because we're more cautious or because we tend to be more in touch with our emotions and less likely to be caught off guard by them I cannot say."

My own hypothesis (Andy isn't the only one who can do this. ;-)) is that there is also the fact that women have much more at risk, overall: financially, physically (the number of women who are beaten or murdered by their exes is significant), the view of women who break up their families is much worse than for men, especially when children are involved.

My son's mother picked up one day and left (we had joint custody at the time) and I heard over and over "how could she leave him?"
She was also mentally ill and she had enough sense to leave him with me, so I give her props for that. (Not that I will ever forgive her for doing this to him and to me—as I was the one who had to tell him she left, but I understood that this was no more horrible than a man leaving his child.)
I’ll comment in greater detail later…after morning golf…but there was one contributor I want to respond to right now.

Bill Michtom, a guy who never misses a chance to take a shot at any comment I make wrote:

”Frank Apisa typed the following lovely sentence: "they get pussy thrown at them from all directions…and when it is thrown at you, it is goddam near impossible to resist."
Speak for yourself, Frank. Not they I've been faithful through every relationship, but I know my father, among other men, was ... for 62 years. It's possible.”


Wow…a devastatingly handsome guy like you with that wonderful personality you have…have been able to resist all the pussy thrown your way over the years! That is amazing!

Bill…there are guys who could walk through Juarez, Mexico with rolled-up hundred dollar bills sticking out of their noses…and not get laid. There is nothing funnier than hearing one of these assholes bragging about their fidelity! Well…maybe listening to them suggest that they are somehow more moral than the guys who do give in is funnier…by why nitpick!


Then Frank typed the results of his mind rading: "For certain Sanford knew what was going to happen when he flew the coop.
Spitzer knew he was going to be caught…that the prostitute would ID him and the story would get out.
Mc Greevey knew he was going to be busted…and outted!"
Unless you have been speaking with these men, I would refrain from making statements like this.


Not sure what “rading” is…but the speculation I made is appropriate. Sorry you don’t appreciate it, but it must be taxing fighting off all the women throwing pussy at you so that you can be that faithful, moral man you are.
Sandra...I respect your opinions...and the "shallow" remark can be explained. I'll do that later...most likely in a PM. For now...I hope a simple "sorry" will suffice.
For the women absolutely certain that the “boys will be boys” line is only for boys…and not for men, you might want to consider that people like Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar were notorious womanizers. Adolph Hitler was NOT!
Frank -- I believe a lot of us, especially women who have spent years living with a man and raising his children, would argue that the alpha-male world conquering types like Alexander the Great are actually "boys" -- arrested adolescents.

Maturity is not just growing gray hair and bushy eyebrows, or being king of the hill. It's an ability to take responsibility for the well-being of other people. Very often that means denying oneself, letting go of what we might desire for the greater good.
My own hypothesis (Andy isn't the only one who can do this. ;-)) is that there is also the fact that women have much more at risk, overall: financially, physically (the number of women who are beaten or murdered by their exes is significant), the view of women who break up their families is much worse than for men, especially when children are involved.

Bill: Yes. But I also think that some of the guys who do crash their lives really didn't perceive their own vulnerability or understand there are some losses you can't get back.
Barbara, you make a very good point. The notion that menopause or menstruation makes women unstable and therefore unfit for a public office should go away forever in the light that there are many things that might make an individual of any gender unstable. Rated.
I have noticed that males these days don't have a sense of humor, they get a tad shrill at times and they are bitter.

( I am of the I don't care about their private lives school as long as they do a good job. )

The particular coterie of men who hold that they are upstanding and never have a fault, that others never deserve a second chance, that they are role models, they who don't approve of gay marriage etc..etc. now, there should be a special test cause the repression is becoming a perversion. Examples: Newt, McCain..etc..etc.
Ok, there has been plenty of generalization about behavior here but I'm gonna post one last time and give it a rest. Sanford was a typical "family values hypocrite." I still don't care about the sexual aspect of his "absence." He could've had a mental crack-up, gone on a bender, or any other circumstance, and it would call into question his "fitness" to govern. But in many instances he could see a doctor, therapist or whatever and be pronounced "sane again" and society would say OK he can resume his duties. But it is the "naughty-naughty sexual aspect" of his absence that will probably get him "fired", and I'm OK with that - I don't spend my time worrying about public figures and their families and, contrary to what they might say, I don't think they spend much time worrying about the likes of me. But I don't expect he will be reduced to begging in the streets or wearing a scarlet letter. Much of this blog screams that he is ruining his life and the lives of his family but (and perhaps unfortunately depending on your concept of justice) he will probably come out of this reasonably ok. Bill Clinton is still married to Hillary (who I personally went to high school with) and he seems to be doing reasonably well. Chelsea isn't in an alley with a needle in her arm. If you Wiki Gary Hart you'll find that he's still married to Lee and doing well. If you wiki Spitzer, he's still married, not at the local mission, but doing legal work, publishing, and public speaking. Wiki McGreevey and find he is with a gay partner and is pursuing a master of divinity degree. As of January 2009, Berlusconi is still the senior G8 leader, the longest-serving current leader of a G8 country (even though his crimes were far more than sexual). If marital fidelity is our litmus test for politicians, well our most recent role model would be... George W. Bush.
noah -- There were serious repercussions to Bill's dalliance with Monica. It undermined his administration, limiting what he might have accoplished. And, I think, it possibly helped defeat Al Gore, leaving us with George W. Bush for president.

Sanford and also Senator Ensign were both being spoken of as potential presidential candidates, and now they can kiss that off. John Edwards might have been Barack Obama's veep candidate -- at the very least I expected him to get a cabinet position -- had he not crashed and burned. And need I say, Eliot Spitzer? The man was practically king of New York state; now he's persona non grata.

It's a gross denial to say that these men didn't behave very recklessly. Whether you care about the morality of what they did or not, the risks they took with their careers, their lives' work, and in Bill's case the entire bleeping planet, reveals something pathological, IMO.
Personally I don't give a shit what politicians do in their personal lives. It's stupid to get caught up in it. Results are what matters. What is his job performance like? This is what we should be concerned about, right or left. AND I’m always amused when libs spaz out when conservatives are "caught with their pants down" and are found to be hypocrites, who isn’t? If an "ex-drug" user told some kids, "don't do drugs" then got caught doing drugs, is what he said now false? That seems to be the attitude of many. SO this Sanford guy he gets caught cheating and now his actual job performance is thrown out? (for the record I don’t know that much about his governing but my opinion remains the same for everyone.)

As you might guess, my political leanings are "Conservative Libertarian". I don’t care whom your screwing or what drugs your taking. I just don’t want government controlling our lives, the smaller the better. As long as he is governing in that way, it’s really all I care about.
Conservative Crusader,

Personally I don't give a shit what politicians do in their personal lives. It's stupid to get caught up in it. Results are what matters. What is his job performance like?

I agree with you completely. The entire point is that Sanford's job performance is, um, way compromised. Taking off for a week and not telling anyone where he is suggests some serious emotional instability that IS affecting his job performance. That's the point.

I'm not that interested in the sex itself. As I keep saying, it's the risk-taking that concerns me.
Taking off for a week and not telling anyone where he is suggests some serious emotional instability that IS affecting his job performance. That's the point.
Taking off for a week and not telling anyone where he is suggests some serious emotional instability that IS affecting his job performance. That's the point.


Time will this is the case and if it is, he'll get voted out and that is how it should be. Un till then, this is all a wwaste of time. but fun to talk about ;P see I'm a hypocrite too, or wait if I admit it, am I?

oop my response didn't get all posted, sorry.
I repent - I will not be in denial - marital infidelity by the politically powerful can lead to the destruction of the entire planet. Marital infidelity is pathological, just as you say. In these instances it is the most risky, destructive behavior imaginable. Personally, I'm just glad that I keep my hands to myself. And I'm learning to keep my mouth shut too. My greatest joy is to be of service to others.
noah, I'm wondering if you could have a thicker skull if you worked at it, or if you've reached optimum skull thickness already. At the very least, you have some issues about sex you need to work on.

I don't personally care about the sex, and if I had found out somehow that Sanford was having a discrete little affair on the side I would have no problem minding my own business. But you are so knee-jerk defensive about sexual behavior you can't understand what anyone else is saying. Get counseling.
Yes ma'am. Thank you for your kind advice. I will do that.
Barbara, what you posted in response to Bill's excellent theory may be the most true thing I've read on the subject:

"some of the guys who do crash their lives really didn't ... understand there are some losses you can't get back."

What you describe is a seamless self-involvement that serves them in good stead as politicians. I think that one MUST be pretty self-involved to be good at promoting oneself, and so I suspect 'self-involved' correlates with 'electability' pretty well.

However, your insistance that it's not the sex that matters is very much in error.

First off, to be a politician in the US, you'd have to KNOW that sex was important. Whether we agree or not, the majority of the US is pretty puritanical. To not understand that would be surprisingly tone-deaf.

Secondly, it's through sex (really, the intimacy that is part-and-parcel to sex) that Sanford et al betrayed the one single person that was his closest ally: his wife. It's not the 5 days away, or the lies that worry me; it's the ability these guys have to BETRAY that makes them unfit for office.

What a great discussion this has been!

Cheers!
Andy A
Andy -- "However, your insistance that it's not the sex that matters is very much in error."

Point taken. So let me clarify by saying that several of us are disagreeing about how and why sex matters. You've got Noah who thinks sex ain't no big deal and that we're just objecting to what Sanford did because we're moral prigs. But the truth is I'm not seeing much of that attitude here, nor am I seeng overmuch snickering about moral hypocricy, which is refreshing.

My take is that sex is an enormously powerful force that we take lightly at our own peril. And I don't say that because I think we'll be punished by God for misbehaving. I have no personal belief in God or hell, I have no interest in judging others' morality, nor do I think all extramerital sex necessarily is "evil."

However, Eros -- which is more than just sex -- can screw with our heads in countless ways. And my point with the post is that there seems to be a common behavioral phenomenon that hits some men more than women in their middle years that causes them to take risks with sex.

Some people have a hard time getting their heads out of the "good versus bad" dichotomy, which seems to be Noah's limitation -- there's nothing "bad" about sex, therefore, sex is harmless.

But the good/bad dichotomy doesn't interest me. What interests me is the power of Eros over our behavior if it decides to take up space in our heads, and how it can lure us away from making rational judgments about our lives and relationships. As I tried to explain to Noah, people generally don't engage in risky behavior so they can spend a week praying in a monastery.

As far as public figures are concerned, I understand the argument that sexual infidelity is as issue only as far as it compromises his or her ability to do the job. But we have many examples of people whose work was compromised, so sometimes it is an issue.

But it's also possible the sexual urges may not be the primary "disease" but just a symptom of something deeper. With some people the symptom may be gambling or drinking, not risky sex.
Some women are tremendous leaders but, many do not inately hold such qualities. Before I get blasted , I am involved at the local level of politics. In a neighborhood, it is the wives who do not get along. Many wifes in my cul-de-sac are not on speaking terms while the men interact to varying degrees.
In my experience in the business world woman do well leading men but, they have conflicts with other women. Perhaps that may evolve as they hold these roles for a few more generations but, on multiple occasions I have witnessed that tension.

And what if they wore the same designer outfit to a treaty ratification signing? !!!

Head for the Shelter
I love the premise of it but confess that I can't digest the content of your posting because I'm laughing too hard at which ads Google chose to pair it with -- dating for older singles, finding older women, surviving infidelity, and of course....hotels.com for that perfect hotel for a honeymoon or destination wedding. Or perhaps a discreet Argentinian affair?
Those ads are so funny when juxtaposed to your content. I'm clicking on a few for you so you get the penny because I really liked this.
I was talking about this same thing with a co-worker this morning - the fact that women may also have affairs, but they would rarely leave children and hubby - much less a state - for five days without notice. And lo and behold, you were on the front page!

A woman might leave for five days, but she wouldn't do it on Mother's (or Father's) day, she would make sure to make lots of meals a head of time, she would find some way to descretely ensure that the Lt. Gov. was left in temporary charge of the State, and she would certainly ensure that she could be gotten in touch with during an emergency. And she would do all of this even if she were in the grips of the worst hot-flashes and hormonal fluctuations imaginable.

As to why we are perenially worried about menopausal women but never willing to discuss the instability of some middle age men for what it is - you of course have answered your own question, but it bears repeating - a double standard based in sexism.

If, as someone suggested (and I cannot seem to place the comment so please forgive me for not giving credit where credit is due) some of the instability comes from the fact that we don't adequately raise boys to deal appropriately with their feelings, this is another case, where sexism and traditional sex roles hurt men as much as women.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post!

Oh, and I'm all for Cartouche's suggestion ;)
Yeah, I totally agree that sex (or Eros, as you say, Barbara) is a very powerful, very primal force. I've sometimes wanted to be one of these guys that can claim, strait-faced that sex is 'just sex', but it's never been that for me. Perhaps it's my healthy respect (read: fear) of sex that makes me hard to understand why guys like Sanford can't seem to say 'no'.

Risk-taking (as a general idea) is very much culturally lauded, particularly in men. I think that element of our cultural gender-roles is part of the issue.

Similarly, I still hold that there is some basic personality element that succesfull politicians (and anyone in a highly political job) has, and that this trait, also makes it difficult to say 'no' when someone offers something they want (even if they know they shouldn't have it.) Is it a need for acceptance? I could buy that the need to get everyone to vote for you could be a manifestation of that same thing.

I think that there is also something to Frank's argument that access plays a part in the seeming high ratio of fame-to-infidelity. Politicians, movie stars, sports stars have more opportunities than most. If it's JUST a numbers game, then the odds are better that they will stray than most men.

Similarly, I think we should look at general trends in what men and women find attractive in the opposite sex. (Whether we like it or not) men find the attributes that suggest strong breeding and child-rearing potential, while women find manifestations of power (physical strength, financial solidity, professional rank) to be attractive. These trends are ingrained deep in our lizard-brains, and are hard to overcome (if we even want to). That suggests that Politicians (and other 'powerful' men) get more opportunities than equally powerful women.

All that said, I still believe that we give these guys the boot: we have to rely on our consciousness and will to overcome whatever social and biological pressures that drive us to self-destruction.

Cheers!
Andy A

PS. the Google ads are Awesome!
Great post. I found myself quoting you at work today. I liked the part about a woman having a hot flash and blowing of her life. Just doesn't happen, does it? No sir. We hang and deal. We rock!

rated
If Sanford had only cheated on his taxes. He could now be a cabinet member.