So Gov. Sanford admits to having an affair. Gov. Sanford, I note, was born in 1960, which would make him 50 next year.
I bring up his age because recently we’ve seen the usual drivel from some troglodytes objecting to the nomination of a woman to the Supreme Court because her judgment might be impaired by menstruation or menopause. When are we going to start worrying about the instability of middle-aged men?
I realize that anecdotes are not data. However, I have never personally met a woman of menopausal age — and I’m past that point myself — who blew off her life because of hot flashes. But I’ve known, and have known of, a number of men aged 45-60 whose lives crashed and burned because of sex.
In most cases they didn't just throw away their marriages; they also lost jobs and wrecked careers. Relationships with children, friends and other family members were irreparably strained or severed. Yes, older women can behave just as foolishly, but it seems to be much less common. We women tend to go through our self-destruct phase when we’re much younger.
I remember one of my former college professors who left a wife, two children, and a tenured faculty position to run off with a student, who then dumped him a few months later. Another academic of my acquaintance burned a plum position at a prestigious university and years of hard-won professional contacts when he left his wife for a student. A man I used to call a good friend lost every one of his friends after he abruptly left his wife (also a good friend) for a younger woman. Yes, the younger women were involved in the affairs, too, but they had nothing to lose.
Think about all the well-known politicians who either wrecked their careers or compromised their offices because they took chances with sex. We snicker at "family value" conservatives who get caught, but you know this happens all across the political spectrum.
Even if you think another person's sex life is no one else's business, I say that risk-taking behavior in someone with big responsibilities ought to be a concern. Think of what was squandered recently by, for example, John Edwards and Eliot Spitzer. They didn't just betray their families; they betrayed all of the people who worked in their campaigns and who voted for them.
What’s often remarkable to me is how reckless some prominent men's behavior can be when so much is at stake in their lives, their ambitions, their work. In some cases they aren't just taking chances with their own lives; they are taking chances with their countries. Yet they can’t seem to help themselves.
I realize that most men — I don’t think — go down this path. But it happens often enough that I wonder why we don’t make an issue of the potential instability of middle-aged men.
Update: I see a lot of men taking offense where I didn't intend it, and I'd like to elaborate a bit more.
I don't think most middle-age men are unstable (the title was tongue-in-cheek), nor do I think men who have affairs are always "bad." As I said in one of the comments, I think sometimes their emotions catch them off guard.
Love -- eros-- has a way of sneaking up on us and smacking us on the head when we're sleepingwalking through our emotional lives. This has happened to me, too. It's one way we send messages to ourselves to stop going through the motions and wake up. Having read Gov. Sanford's emails to his mistress I suspect that's what happened to him, and I can commiserate.
However, he was still a governor, and it says something that he didn't have more self-control than to run off to South America for a week.
I also assume that women have affairs about as often as men do, but women appear to be less likely to crash their lives because of it. Whether that's because we're more cautious or because we tend to be more in touch with our emotions and less likely to be caught off guard by them I cannot say.
But I say again, it's not the sex, but the recklessness, that's a concern.

Salon.com
Comments
Why don't we all just get our heads out of our collective asses...and recognize that men do these kinds of things? Why don’t we stop making a big thing of it?
Men in powerful positions are particularly susceptible because they get pussy thrown at them from all directions…and when it is thrown at you, it is goddam near impossible to resist.
In one of the Soprano’s episodes, Tony says to Carmella: “You knew how things were and are with us (meaning wiseguys)…you knew!”
The women married to these men…these driven, successful, politicians…KNOW that these guys are gonna have as much ass thrown at them as a rock star or ball player. They have accepted the reality…and they can deal with it when it comes to fruition.
But for us out here to get all worked up over the fact that politicians like to have their dicks sucked makes no sense whatever! That they like to have it sucked by lots of different women should not surprise us either.
Here's the perfect image: Chevy Chase in Vacation driving next to Christie Brinkley in that red corvette.
Here's the reality- just about any younger woman who shows interest in a middle aged man can easily get him to drop his drawers and leave his family. thumb up on this.
Men are useless, stupid animals who exist only to pollinate and die. The rest of the time they're making trouble, and those who drift into politics are the worst of all.
Sorry, you guys don't get off that easily. The women I know whose husbands were caught having affairs were devastated. Their children were devastated. The "boys will be boys" line is, well, for boys, not men.
Sex is sex. Lying is something else altogether. And Stanford behaved like a dimwit - you can't get elected governor and expect to go off the grid with your lover and not be accountable! For God's sake, even the mailroom clerk at Acme Company doesn't expect to be able to take an unexplained four day absence while he bangs the receptionist and come back to work and find his job intact, no questions asked.
The issue here isn't about Stanford's dick, it's about is idiocy.
I believe that to be human is to undergo sometimes painful, personal change. But despite the chaos within our personal lives we can buckle down to what we are paid to do. Whether or not men are more likely prone to indiscretion in their middle age over women in the youth the fact remains that we are all entirely capable of functioning despite what is going on in our personal lives. Are we to be so bold as to ask our surgeon how solid his marriage is before we elect to undergo surgery. I also believe the stakes are much lower for what we ask of our politicians and in fact there is the possibility that turmoil within the personal lives of our elected representatives is an advantage to the process of political discourse. Every publicly conservative politician who parades his family values only to be exposed as a philanderer must eventually present himself to the glare of media incited opprobrium. This must surely be a positive outcome as it plainly highlights their hypocrisy. Unlike our surgeons we can get rid of them come next election without a backlog at the hospital.
But what if they survive? What if they do make amends to their electorate? They shamefully admit their failures and we consider not only their personal fate but what factors led us to trust them in the first place? Both the politician and ourselves as their electorate have respectfully, the possibility of salvation and wisdom.
A governor of South Carolina disappearing without notice for a week is not "functioning" despite what is going on in his personal life.
IT ISN'T THE SEX. It's the dysfunction. Read the post. Men trash their entire lives because they take risks with sex. It's the risk-taking that I'm pointing to, not the sex.
By the way, the answer to the question why is sexism.
At best risk-taking, sex, dysfunction, and ruined lives are equated here. Let me ask this: If he took off on a camping trip and nothing sexual was involved how would you feel about it? If he arranged beforehand for a week's absence, took a vacation, and had sex and it was discovered and reported how would you feel about it? If it wasn't reported, how would you feel about it? Should politicians be role models of marital fidelity? I still think Europe is laughing.
"is it about the sex in the politics or the politics in the sex? I think Europe is laughing at us"
First of all, why is having sex such a big issue in the U.S.? People need to lighten up here, and then sex WOULDN'T be such a reckless thing. Why is a career risked because of sex?
I also find it amusing that many women are giving positive feedback on this article. Personally, I just think that many guys just shouldn't get married. The idea in our society that everyone needs to get married and be monogamous all their lives is a problem. (I personally AM happily married, but I don't think EVERYONE should be.)
If a governor of a state took off for a week, didn't tell anyone where he was, and it turned out he was praying in a monastery the whole time, it's still dysfunction and still reason for concern.
The thing is, it's rare for people to take crazy personal risks to spend a week in a monastery. Or camping, for that matter.
You're in denial, dude.
In that case, you can just heave out Feinstein and leave everyone else alone.
Why don't you ask Silvio Berlusconi about that?
First of all, thanks for taking my remarks seriously. They were intended to be serious.
YOU WROTE: The issue here isn't about Stanford's dick, it's about is idiocy.
But therein lies a clue to a problem many people, especially women, are unwilling to even contemplate.
For certain Sanford knew what was going to happen when he flew the coop.
Spitzer knew he was going to be caught…that the prostitute would ID him and the story would get out.
Mc Greevey knew he was going to be busted…and outted!
Bill Clinton knew that Monica Lewinski was not going to blow him and not brag about it.
I could go on for paragraphs!
They knew they were going to pay a huge price…and they did it anyway!!!!!!
Think about the implications of that. And if you want to be shallow and ascribe it to stupidity or idiocy rather than suspecting there is a more complicated dynamic at work…shame on you.
Sandra, we were all taught in school that humans were the one animal that had no instincts.
I think we were taught wrong…or at least, it appears we were taught incorrectly.
Propagation appears to be instinctive.
Women, the vast majority of women, manifest the instinct in the so-called “mother instinct.” They want to have a baby.
Men manifest it by wanting to help women have babies. (No joke intended here…this is the reality!)
Whatever it is that motivates so many women to put all else aside in their desire to be mothers…apparently motivates men in the direction of spreading seed. The intense desire to fuck is vital to the survival and dominance of our species.
It is an area that has to be studied dispassionately…and it is an area that has to generate a hell of a lot more empathy and understanding than the women here are giving it.
AND NO…NOT EVERY MAN IS controlled by his penis any more than EVERY woman desires to become pregnant. BUT A LOT OF MEN ARE!
They are not idiots…many, in fact, are very, very intelligent and accomplished.
Something else is at work here!
Now, I recognize that this is a tremendously sexist assertion, but the reality is that men DO this. Why should we consider men any more qualified than women on the basis of their stability (since they're obviously, in general, not)? I think that's the point.
In Sanford's case one hopes he knew he was going to pay a price, but in other cases I think the guys thought they could get away with it. It's a kind of weird self-destruction.
It is an area that has to be studied dispassionately…and it is an area that has to generate a hell of a lot more empathy and understanding than the women here are giving it.
I agree it should be studied dispassionately, but I also think you are being way too defensive.
A reader on my personal blog, a male, commented that he had been hit rather hard by midlife himself. Then he said, "guys aren’t well trained in dealing with their 'feelings' when these things hit them, so they can really go off the deep end and not realize what they’re doing." I suspect he's right; to take such risks and wreck your life, you've got to be in the grip of very powerful emotions that are catching you utterly off guard.
So I think as a species we need to talk about this and try to understand why it happens, and maybe prepare guys a little better for what midlife is like for them. Just snickering at the guys who get caught really isn't helpful.
Your idea that men act like this because they are in the grip of reproductive urges actually is less respectful of men than I am.
Maybe if our culture didn't place such an incredible premium on monogamy the "risk" you talk about wouldn't be so artificially high.
Barbara, I think you make great points and you talk a lot about "risk" but don't REALLY explain how that "risk" gets created in the first place.
WHY is there so much at stake with sexual fidelity? What is it that actually creates the "risk" you talk about?
The fact is that our society puts an artificially high value on sexual fidelity and that artificially high value is what creates this environment of risk in the first place. (And please don't misconstrue my word here and claim that I'm somehow condoning polyamory for everyone or saying that marriage is just obsolete. I'm not. I'm specifically arguing that the DEGREE of moral value we put on sexual fidelity may be artificially high).
I don't deny that the "risk" you talk about exists. But it's a shame that you don't actually address the fact of what actually causes the risk.
Let's talk about how we can all grow up a little and talk more maturely and practically about marriage and sexual fidelity instead of gloating about how much more "risk averse" women seem to be -- which to me seems to be a pretty superficial argument.
Exactly. As another commenter said, may be middle aged women are having affairs just as often as men. Could be. But as I keep saying, it's not the sex, it's the recklessness.
Bosh.
I have made this point elsewhere: integrity is key. If you commit to a monogamous relationship, then you owe it to yourself (not to mention every other affected party) to bow out as gracefully as possible if you feel and cannot resist the call of the penis. You must take responsibility, without exception.
To argue that impulsive behavior of this kind is "natural" to men, particularly middle aged, presumably white men, is facile. It might even rate being called an "-ism." Most of my close male friends are white and middle-aged, and none - NONE - of them have betrayed their spouses. None of them are type-A strivers, either, which perhaps has some bearing.
In the meantime, please don't tar us all with the same brush, all you sensitive people out there.
I don't think the value is artificial, but we can disagree on that. The fact remains that if a person, either sex, falls out of love with a spouse, there is this process called "divorce" you can go through to end the marriage.
If you want to keep the marriage, however, the emotional well-being of your spouse is something that should concern you. If you have both agreed to an open marriage that's your business, but if your spouse expects fidelity, and you aren't willing to give it, then I'd say it's better for both of you to end the marriage. Sneaking around is terribly self-destructive in ways that have nothing whatsoever to do with "society."
The fact is, I don't know whether this behavior is natural or not, and as I said, I don't think most men behave that way. However, it happens often enough that we ought to be thinking about why it happens.
Of course, it is wrong of Sanford to have betrayed his wife of nearly 20 years, his children and his career in public office. My own father's advice was this; "Don't lose your head over a little piece of tail." Sanford’s betrayal of the people closest to him is exactly why he should not be able to hold office. Who and what else would he betray?
At the same time, there have been a LOT of politicians with their pants around their ankles these days. I wonder if the real problem is that whatever makes someone electable is the SAME THING that allows them to whip it out so easily. Let's follow Frank's thoughts and just chalk it up to Alpha-male hard-wiring to spread our genes far and wide. The female version of that is the baby-crazy 30 year old that can hear nothing but her time-clock ticking. (She exists, please don't deny it.) That aspect of her personality is what makes her unlikely to seek public office, and de-facto, makes her completely un-electable. She never goes into public office.
So, to recap. What Sanford and so many others did was WRONG. It's not about sex, it's about betrayal. Alpha males get to have sex with more women, but just because they can, doesn't mean that they should. Some of them don't seem to have the cajones to keep the rest of the package in their pants. THAT should be why we kick them out of office.
Cheers!
Andy A
T.S. typed unsupported sexism (as usual): "I think women are more suited to govern, less suited to wage war. Unfortunately war is a reality...." I refer you to Golda Meir and Margaret Thatcher, both of whom waged succesful wars. I mean, if any war is ultimately successful. Plus, considering the vast number of men who are national leaders, versus the tiny number of women, any statement about this is purely anecdotal.
Frank Apisa typed the following lovely sentence: "they get pussy thrown at them from all directions…and when it is thrown at you, it is goddam near impossible to resist."
Speak for yourself, Frank. Not they I've been faithful through every relationship, but I know my father, among other men, was ... for 62 years. It's possible.
Then Frank typed the results of his mind rading: "For certain Sanford knew what was going to happen when he flew the coop.
Spitzer knew he was going to be caught…that the prostitute would ID him and the story would get out.
Mc Greevey knew he was going to be busted…and outted!"
Unless you have been speaking with these men, I would refrain from making statements like this.
As to actual research about infidelity, here's some stuff from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidelity):
"Fifty [UK] divorce lawyers were asked to name the most common causes of their cases in 2003. Of those who cited extramarital affairs, 55% said it was usually the husbands and 45% said that it was the wives who cheated."
"82% of gay male couples reported having nonmonogamous relationships, while lesbian couples reported 28%. Rates among older women tripled from 5% in 1991 to 15% in 2006; rates among men rose from 20% to 28%. About 20% of younger men and 15% of younger women say they cheated ... Infidelity studies show that extramarital sex occurs in up to 25% of heterosexual marriages in the USA ..."
" [in the] General Social Survey, a face-to-face interview[,] Atkins' new study of trends over a 15-year period from 1991 to 2006 in which 19,065 people participated found that infidelity rates were climbing among certain age groups: those 60 and older and those 35 and younger. "
Barbar typed: "a male, commented that he had been hit rather hard by midlife himself. "
I have observed--obviously anecdotally--that mid-life crises hit people who have done the same thing since their (mostly early) twenties in terms of marriage and career.
Though the increasing number of women holding public office was initially hailed as a great breakthrough for the gender, it's becoming increasingly apparent that the true reason is that real men are no longer so interested in public office. If men are going to have their balls busted over personal issues (remember what almost happened to one of your favorites, Bill Clinton?) then red blooded males are going to make their mark in Silicon Valley, not Washington. Government will gradually and steadily turn into a clutch of spiritless HOA bake sale ladies.
Hey, it's a blog, not a scientific study. Anecdotal evidence is fine for this type of writing. Reading it with a sense of humor is fine as well...even if it maybe hits a little too close to home for some men.
Andy A's comments about personal responsibility were spot on. We (nearly) all feel those urges to couple with attractive young women. And I tend to agree with those who believe that these urges are TYPICALLY far more powerful in men than in women. But if we are one of those men who have chosen to become a husband and father then we have absolutely no business and no right to act on them. We have made promises that are meaningful and profound.
Using "instinct" or "the way we're wired" to try and excuse breaking those promises minimizes all men. We've got more to us than our libido. Or at least we should.
I have observed--obviously anecdotally--that mid-life crises hit people who have done the same thing since their (mostly early) twenties in terms of marriage and career.
That's an excellent observation. I added some thoughts to the end of the original post that kind of go along with that. In my experience (personal, in part) eros has a way of grabbing people who have long neglected their own emotions and inner lives; who are just sleepwalking though life. It can be a kind of wake-up call.
Using "instinct" or "the way we're wired" to try and excuse breaking those promises minimizes all men. We've got more to us than our libido. Or at least we should.
Hear, hear! (applause)
If anything, saying men are reckless with sex because it's "the way we're wired" is an argument for keeping men out of public office! But I don't think this problem has anything to do with sexual "wiring." I think it's a deeper issue that manifests in a sexual way in some people.
I knew of a guy who was a very powerful partner in one of the biggest and most profitable law firms in the world. He fell so hard for an Australian beauty queen that he not only dumped his wife and kids -- but ultimately when the beauty queen lost interest, he ended up calling his wife at all hours sobbing into the phone. He had to be institutionalized for a while, and actually ended up destroying his own career.
I know some guys in their early twenties who cheat on their wives, for whom it's "just sex" -- but with these older guys, I'm sorry it's not "just sex". There's so much more going on, I can't tell you what but I can see these guys aren't behaving in a way we would consider rational.
I also think there's some reason why they're so incredibly reckless -- I think the belief that they can never be caught leads them to be more and more daring, like Gary Hart.
Incumbents get a boost at the polls during election times. During the 90's, this boost had risen to "an average of 8%". (http://web.mit.edu/polisci/research/representation/incumb_advantage_elj.pdf)
In 2000, Al Gore (arguably) lost the Presidential election by less than 600 votes in Florida. (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html)
By clinging to his lame-duck Presidency after his affair and not stepping down, Bill Clinton prevented Al Gore from gaining this incumbency bump, and doomed us to at least 4 years of 'W'.
If they can't keep it in their pants, we should kick 'em out of office.
Cheers!
Andy A
I've often pondered that sex is just an excuse when men go off the rails at mid-life.
Brava.
I agree, but believe it is the risk-taking that they love. And they do it because they can, I've asked them. My cousin (a male lawyer) has often said, "Never trust two people not to fuck."
I've known men that have told me they love their wives, have no idea what they would do without them and that they mean everything to them. They are their sister, their mother, their wife, and their lover all rolled into one. Yet, this came from a man who screwed around every chance he got, and still does, lives in Beijing and totally has yellow fever. When someone can explain it me, I'm willing to listen because it makes no sense to me.
Being something of a middle-age crazy male myself, I sometimes feel less than accommodated in my ability to express the contrary point of view. On the merits, I tend to disagree with your assessment in your update where you seem to throw your critics a bone by declaring that you don't think most men are unstable. Probably a goodly number of us are. We may respond in a variety of ways that fall short of wrecking the marriage--alcohol, fast cars, climbing Mt. Everest; these are only a few of the ways a man might attempt to cope with aging, fear of death, and waning desire (both his and/or his mate's).
And then, like you say, some men want the whole enchilada (or, more to the point, the fish taco). I number myself among those who, though I have not acted on such a compulsion, have and continue to contemplate such.
I have my reasons, and my reasons make sense to me. As it happens, my wife and I have had many discussions of my desires, my frustrations, my vacilating need to experience sex outside my marriage. She doesn't really understand this need in me. I have spoken to several women friends about my frustrations and they, for the most part, moralize and take offense. One woman suggested that I am greedy: that people (such as she) would do anything to have a 25-year marriage, that for me to have a good marriage and that not be "enough" for me is simply greed. How dare I risk my marriage, how extravagant my desire, how unjust.
I don't know about this Governor Sanford. In fact, fuck Governor Sanford, and the horse he rode in on! But I quite understand how he might have strayed. Knowing nothing about his marriage, I'll posit he wasn't getting something he needed from it. Maybe he wasn't getting enough sex; maybe he wasn't getting the kind of sex he needed from her; maybe she was wearing diamond rings on all ten fingers and he was sleeping on the couch. I, of course, have no idea of the facts. But I don't doubt for a moment that there were circumstances that he simply could no longer live with, and he had the courage or the reckless abandon needed to take action. And I don't blame him for that.
Because no matter how much I love my wife--and make no mistake, I DO love my wife, very much--she is not always there, and she doesn't always understand or accommodate my needs, and I'm not dead yet.
I think the best discussion of this I ever heard was from the movie Moonstruck, where Loretta's mother knows her husband is having an affair. She doesn't quite know what to do, and one night even arranges a "date" with some middle-aged college professor, a serial philanderer who takes advantage of his female students. She asks this man: "Why do man cheat?" He answers "Because they fear death", corroborating a conclusion she has already come to.
I cannot disagree.
Do I hope my marriage remains intact? Of course I do; I don't wish to divorce my wife, and I do not wish for her to divorce me. Our lives are too good. We're a team, a great team. But on the other hand, do I agree to observe my vows for the remainder of my life? I don't know. I don't think my wife always meets me partway. I think I have given her too much power. I don't think our relationship is lived out quite enough on my terms.
And I think I am not so unusual.
At least he took the hits alone and rightly so.
It takes political passion to win public office. It takes passion to want to govern. Yet, we are infinitely surprised when equal passion raises it's ugly head in an affair.
The hypocrisy, judgmentalism and absconding with my hard-earned taxes are the greater sins, imo. If he's lucky, his wife will divorce him so he can live the rest of his life in Argentina as his marriage was over long before the affair...
Rated as Well Done!
This is exactly what the article is about... And frankly, it isn't just white men. Why should they take all the heat. What about Kwame Kilpatrick of Detroit?
I am not trying to be smart or contrarian here. I just don’t see how using one ridiculous opinion (a woman is not suited to be a judge) justifies another opinion (middle aged men unfit for public office). I think you are making fun of the troglodytes and yet you also seem to be serious. I’m just a little perplexed as to which it is. Maybe I’m just a little slower than usual tonight.
Congrats on the EP though!
The title is tongue in check. However, I'm saying that there appears to be a real phenomenon that impacts SOME, not all over even most, middle-age men that really does make them go haywire, whereas I've never seen menopause impact a woman's judgment in any serious way. I think the male midlife crisis phenomenon is something that, at least, we ought to acknowledge and discuss.
but he's a politician and their self regard is commonly bottomless, so this was probably one more indulgence, one too far for his partner. who, incidentally, is a politician's wife. she probably deserves him.
The operative word here is "arguably." According to the collection of media companies (maybe all newspapers, I don't remember) that investigated the election, Gore won.
Andy A. continued: "By clinging to his lame-duck Presidency after his affair and not stepping down, Bill Clinton prevented Al Gore from gaining this incumbency bump, and doomed us to at least 4 years of 'W'."
Do you think, Andy, that the press would not have propagated the lies and nonsense:
- Gore claimed to have invented the Internet
- Gore claimed to have uncovered Love Canal
- Al Gore is so feminized...he's practically lactating. - Maureen Dowd
- Al Gore will do and say anything!
if he were the incumbent? Do you think that the Repubs wouldn't have stolen the election with the help of that BS propaganda?
I think this argument is too far into Hypothesis Land to be worth examining beyond what I just did.
Our hostess, Barbara typed: "I also assume that women have affairs about as often as men do, but women appear to be less likely to crash their lives because of it. Whether that's because we're more cautious or because we tend to be more in touch with our emotions and less likely to be caught off guard by them I cannot say."
My own hypothesis (Andy isn't the only one who can do this. ;-)) is that there is also the fact that women have much more at risk, overall: financially, physically (the number of women who are beaten or murdered by their exes is significant), the view of women who break up their families is much worse than for men, especially when children are involved.
My son's mother picked up one day and left (we had joint custody at the time) and I heard over and over "how could she leave him?"
She was also mentally ill and she had enough sense to leave him with me, so I give her props for that. (Not that I will ever forgive her for doing this to him and to me—as I was the one who had to tell him she left, but I understood that this was no more horrible than a man leaving his child.)
Bill Michtom, a guy who never misses a chance to take a shot at any comment I make wrote:
”Frank Apisa typed the following lovely sentence: "they get pussy thrown at them from all directions…and when it is thrown at you, it is goddam near impossible to resist."
Speak for yourself, Frank. Not they I've been faithful through every relationship, but I know my father, among other men, was ... for 62 years. It's possible.”
Wow…a devastatingly handsome guy like you with that wonderful personality you have…have been able to resist all the pussy thrown your way over the years! That is amazing!
Bill…there are guys who could walk through Juarez, Mexico with rolled-up hundred dollar bills sticking out of their noses…and not get laid. There is nothing funnier than hearing one of these assholes bragging about their fidelity! Well…maybe listening to them suggest that they are somehow more moral than the guys who do give in is funnier…by why nitpick!
Then Frank typed the results of his mind rading: "For certain Sanford knew what was going to happen when he flew the coop.
Spitzer knew he was going to be caught…that the prostitute would ID him and the story would get out.
Mc Greevey knew he was going to be busted…and outted!"
Unless you have been speaking with these men, I would refrain from making statements like this.
Not sure what “rading” is…but the speculation I made is appropriate. Sorry you don’t appreciate it, but it must be taxing fighting off all the women throwing pussy at you so that you can be that faithful, moral man you are.
Maturity is not just growing gray hair and bushy eyebrows, or being king of the hill. It's an ability to take responsibility for the well-being of other people. Very often that means denying oneself, letting go of what we might desire for the greater good.
Bill: Yes. But I also think that some of the guys who do crash their lives really didn't perceive their own vulnerability or understand there are some losses you can't get back.
Sanford and also Senator Ensign were both being spoken of as potential presidential candidates, and now they can kiss that off. John Edwards might have been Barack Obama's veep candidate -- at the very least I expected him to get a cabinet position -- had he not crashed and burned. And need I say, Eliot Spitzer? The man was practically king of New York state; now he's persona non grata.
It's a gross denial to say that these men didn't behave very recklessly. Whether you care about the morality of what they did or not, the risks they took with their careers, their lives' work, and in Bill's case the entire bleeping planet, reveals something pathological, IMO.
As you might guess, my political leanings are "Conservative Libertarian". I don’t care whom your screwing or what drugs your taking. I just don’t want government controlling our lives, the smaller the better. As long as he is governing in that way, it’s really all I care about.
Personally I don't give a shit what politicians do in their personal lives. It's stupid to get caught up in it. Results are what matters. What is his job performance like?
I agree with you completely. The entire point is that Sanford's job performance is, um, way compromised. Taking off for a week and not telling anyone where he is suggests some serious emotional instability that IS affecting his job performance. That's the point.
I'm not that interested in the sex itself. As I keep saying, it's the risk-taking that concerns me.
Time will this is the case and if it is, he'll get voted out and that is how it should be. Un till then, this is all a wwaste of time. but fun to talk about ;P see I'm a hypocrite too, or wait if I admit it, am I?
oop my response didn't get all posted, sorry.
I don't personally care about the sex, and if I had found out somehow that Sanford was having a discrete little affair on the side I would have no problem minding my own business. But you are so knee-jerk defensive about sexual behavior you can't understand what anyone else is saying. Get counseling.
"some of the guys who do crash their lives really didn't ... understand there are some losses you can't get back."
What you describe is a seamless self-involvement that serves them in good stead as politicians. I think that one MUST be pretty self-involved to be good at promoting oneself, and so I suspect 'self-involved' correlates with 'electability' pretty well.
However, your insistance that it's not the sex that matters is very much in error.
First off, to be a politician in the US, you'd have to KNOW that sex was important. Whether we agree or not, the majority of the US is pretty puritanical. To not understand that would be surprisingly tone-deaf.
Secondly, it's through sex (really, the intimacy that is part-and-parcel to sex) that Sanford et al betrayed the one single person that was his closest ally: his wife. It's not the 5 days away, or the lies that worry me; it's the ability these guys have to BETRAY that makes them unfit for office.
What a great discussion this has been!
Cheers!
Andy A
Point taken. So let me clarify by saying that several of us are disagreeing about how and why sex matters. You've got Noah who thinks sex ain't no big deal and that we're just objecting to what Sanford did because we're moral prigs. But the truth is I'm not seeing much of that attitude here, nor am I seeng overmuch snickering about moral hypocricy, which is refreshing.
My take is that sex is an enormously powerful force that we take lightly at our own peril. And I don't say that because I think we'll be punished by God for misbehaving. I have no personal belief in God or hell, I have no interest in judging others' morality, nor do I think all extramerital sex necessarily is "evil."
However, Eros -- which is more than just sex -- can screw with our heads in countless ways. And my point with the post is that there seems to be a common behavioral phenomenon that hits some men more than women in their middle years that causes them to take risks with sex.
Some people have a hard time getting their heads out of the "good versus bad" dichotomy, which seems to be Noah's limitation -- there's nothing "bad" about sex, therefore, sex is harmless.
But the good/bad dichotomy doesn't interest me. What interests me is the power of Eros over our behavior if it decides to take up space in our heads, and how it can lure us away from making rational judgments about our lives and relationships. As I tried to explain to Noah, people generally don't engage in risky behavior so they can spend a week praying in a monastery.
As far as public figures are concerned, I understand the argument that sexual infidelity is as issue only as far as it compromises his or her ability to do the job. But we have many examples of people whose work was compromised, so sometimes it is an issue.
But it's also possible the sexual urges may not be the primary "disease" but just a symptom of something deeper. With some people the symptom may be gambling or drinking, not risky sex.
In my experience in the business world woman do well leading men but, they have conflicts with other women. Perhaps that may evolve as they hold these roles for a few more generations but, on multiple occasions I have witnessed that tension.
And what if they wore the same designer outfit to a treaty ratification signing? !!!
Head for the Shelter
A woman might leave for five days, but she wouldn't do it on Mother's (or Father's) day, she would make sure to make lots of meals a head of time, she would find some way to descretely ensure that the Lt. Gov. was left in temporary charge of the State, and she would certainly ensure that she could be gotten in touch with during an emergency. And she would do all of this even if she were in the grips of the worst hot-flashes and hormonal fluctuations imaginable.
As to why we are perenially worried about menopausal women but never willing to discuss the instability of some middle age men for what it is - you of course have answered your own question, but it bears repeating - a double standard based in sexism.
If, as someone suggested (and I cannot seem to place the comment so please forgive me for not giving credit where credit is due) some of the instability comes from the fact that we don't adequately raise boys to deal appropriately with their feelings, this is another case, where sexism and traditional sex roles hurt men as much as women.
Thank you, thank you, thank you for this post!
Oh, and I'm all for Cartouche's suggestion ;)
Risk-taking (as a general idea) is very much culturally lauded, particularly in men. I think that element of our cultural gender-roles is part of the issue.
Similarly, I still hold that there is some basic personality element that succesfull politicians (and anyone in a highly political job) has, and that this trait, also makes it difficult to say 'no' when someone offers something they want (even if they know they shouldn't have it.) Is it a need for acceptance? I could buy that the need to get everyone to vote for you could be a manifestation of that same thing.
I think that there is also something to Frank's argument that access plays a part in the seeming high ratio of fame-to-infidelity. Politicians, movie stars, sports stars have more opportunities than most. If it's JUST a numbers game, then the odds are better that they will stray than most men.
Similarly, I think we should look at general trends in what men and women find attractive in the opposite sex. (Whether we like it or not) men find the attributes that suggest strong breeding and child-rearing potential, while women find manifestations of power (physical strength, financial solidity, professional rank) to be attractive. These trends are ingrained deep in our lizard-brains, and are hard to overcome (if we even want to). That suggests that Politicians (and other 'powerful' men) get more opportunities than equally powerful women.
All that said, I still believe that we give these guys the boot: we have to rely on our consciousness and will to overcome whatever social and biological pressures that drive us to self-destruction.
Cheers!
Andy A
PS. the Google ads are Awesome!
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