Man Talk Now's Blog

Testosterone Ain't Hormone Pollution
MARCH 26, 2010 3:03PM

I Don’t Like ManTalkNow, and You Shouldn’t Either

Rate: 50 Flag

MTN2 

 

There’s a lady named Stellaa who blogs here on Open Salon.  You probably know her.  She’s a very good writer, and is well-liked.  She has a natural feel for the medium.  Stellaa posts about politics, current events, food and even odd, silly things that make her laugh. 

I like Stella’s blog.  Not everything she writes is up my alley, of course.  I think it would be strange, actually, if I were interested in or agreed with everything she writes.  We have each been shaped by different backgrounds, experiences and generations.  And genders.  But I enjoy her approach and take on the world.  In her blog’s biographical information, she styles herself as a “flaneuse”, and I think that’s bang on.  She saunters and strolls, muses and thinks and writes.

I don’t spend a lot of time on Open Salon, and when I do read and post it tends to be in fits and starts.  But I do have my favorite people to read, and Stellaa is one of them.  She often manages to find an insight that illuminates an issue from a new direction.  Her recent piece The Myth of Online Community was a terrific example of that.

Now, I too blog sometimes on Open Salon.  Stellaa doesn’t like my blog.  Well, fair enough.  I can certainly understand that.  Lots of people don’t like my blog.  I know that, because they tell me so! 

But Stellaa appears to have a particular antipathy for my scribbling.  It seems every other time I post something, Stellaa adds a comment calling it “banal”.  Each time she does so, I respond that she’s quite right.  Without doubt.  My stuff is featherweight and I know it.  Still, I blog because it’s fun.  And I like to try things.

I must admit, though, that I don’t quite understand why I seem to be such a bee in Stellaa’s bonnet.  Late last night, she posted what she tagged as a “pinot noir rant” titled Faux Sexuality.  Apparently, Stellaa is mad at me and another Open Salon blogger for… crimes against sexuality?

Worse, if I understand Stellaa correctly, she’s irritated that some people “admire” or are “enchanted with” what I and the other blogger write.  That seems an exaggeration.  For my part, anyway, I’m not among the most widely-read bloggers here.  (Though it does tickle me pink when people like something I post.)

In addition to calling me “banal” (which is certainly true), Stellaa calls me “boring” (which I know is sometimes true), but then goes on to attach other unwelcome limpets to me.

-I am guilty of “faux”, “fake”, “false” and “ersatz” sexuality

-I am an “obvious poseur”

-I am a “sexual amateur”

 

It’s quite a thorough attack.  In fact, it feels like an attempt to delegitimize and shun.  I’d argue that it was rather mean-spirited.  I’d argue also that it unfairly characterizes me.

 

Since November, I’ve posted 9 times.  Most of my posts have been satire (or at least attempts at satire).  Nearly all of them have been purposefully self-mocking – including the two that were broadly related to sex.

 

Now, sex is interesting to me, for a number of reasons.  The first is obvious.  It’s a marvelous thing, and I really enjoy it, “amateur” that I may be.  Sex is also interesting for the ways it can make us feel vulnerable and ridiculous.  I find that humorous.  And leveling.

 

Contrary to the impression Stellaa gives in her post today, I don’t write about sex very often.  And when I do, I don’t go out of my way to titillate.  Whether I succeed or not, I do try to be circumspect, use restraint, suggest rather than state explicitly. 

 

I write here on Open Salon, in my fits and starts, and I have a lot of fun doing it.  It’s a wonderful place and platform, full of literate and opinionated people.  I write silly rants about nothing that quite a few people see when the posts are funny.  I write silly poems that nobody reads, but that I love to write.  Sometimes I write indirectly about myself.  I like to think I’m pretty clear-eyed on that topic.

 

I’m not crying bitter tears because Stellaa picked on the poor wolf.  I am puzzled, however.  I just don’t see what I did to deserve her animus, rather than her simple uninterest.  Was it really necessary for her to write a nasty piece that rallied her readers to call me names and declare that my blog “pulls the needy women”?

 

So what’s a man to do?  Why the same thing we always do:  refuse stubbornly to change whether we’re right or wrong.  I’m going to keep reading and enjoying Stella, keep typing my lightweight posts, and keep agreeing with Stellaa that every blessed word that appears on my blog is utterly, unabashedly banal.

 

Sadly, what we’ve got here is a case of extremely unrequited like. ;)

 

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Great title - I've been saying that for ages. ;)

You're many things to me, but banal and boring have never made the cut. Write on, wolfboy.
I should also mention that I've read none of the posts you've linked to - so my opinion is completely irrelevant to the whole event.
Really? I like you both and have always enjoyed your posts over the many months. I am with I-Mother, write away. I am glad you are am amateur in the sex world actually. A pro would be too intimidating.
Dude, it's so obvious she wants you. Give her a taste and she'll be your biggest fan.
You know MTN...I do love you. I have tried to save you from yourself, cajoled you, argued with you, but most of all, I've had fun with you. I dig your scene, especially when I can butch you dowwwwn. As for the banality of sex, well, isn't that rather the bastion of those who aren't having any? xox
As I commented on Stellaa's post, not everything on OS will please everyone. But I'll be damned if I'm going to criticize someone's choice of subject on the mere basis that I find it "banal" or "blasé". I'm sure plenty of OS readers would be comfortable with tagging my posts that way as well. They are free to not view my offerings. Those who dislike yours, are free not view yours.
But I think we've all read more than enough non-constructive complaining about what makes it on to the cover already. Enough.

Please continue to regale the rest of us with your banal/blasé/satirical writing. They can label me anti-feminist if they will. The rebel in me will enjoy it.
Keep on a writing...I've always liked your stuff.
But.....to quote Rodney King, "can't we all just get along?"
We don't need another weekend long pissing contest again.
Rated
To quote you from the first of your posts that I ever read... about a conversation with a girl on a jet that you asked to dinner.
"What's not to like?"
I read and commented on Stellaa's post and enjoy her as well. I didn't see the post as a "pick on anyone" thing, I thought it was an academic discussion, but, I tend to like to be naive.

I think you both stand alone. We all are where we are and our experiences are relevant and important as they speak to different audiences - all of them.

I'm all for live and let live.
MTN: I must agree with everything you said about Stella -- she's one of the first people on here that I read and commented to (if memory serves, a piece she posted about last summer's Euro Cup soccer championships, which included a well deserved "shout out" to Spain and Fernando Torres) and I always read her posts and invariably give it a bump, or monkey finger, or whatever we call a positive rating. In fact, how about another shout out for her recent post on the German village that was losing its food diversity? A truly interesting, insightful post. She's thoughtful, opinionated, and certainly not shy; as the kids say, or used to say: "It's All Good."

I can't imagine why she doesn't like your stuff -- it's not boring or banal -- at least not in my humble opinion. It's interesting, different, and always funny. Moreover, you have a perspective that seems unique in this forum, and I, for one, wish you would post more. Of course, I've never posted at all (that's another story entirely) so I can't really complain that you (or Stella, for that matter) don't post more.

Anyway -- I will continue to read and enjoy Stella, as I will your posts. I hope Stella gives your work another chance, because I had this dream in which you and Stella, on a sunny back porch, enjoy some light libations and fresh food while finding out, as you sip and nosh, that you have a lot in common and could, in fact, become friends who enjoy each other's diverse take on things. That's it -- peace, out, and oh yes, Kumbaya.
MTN: I must agree with everything you said about Stella -- she's one of the first people on here that I read and commented to (if memory serves, a piece she posted about last summer's Euro Cup soccer championships, which included a well deserved "shout out" to Spain and Fernando Torres) and I always read her posts and invariably give it a bump, or monkey finger, or whatever we call a positive rating. In fact, how about another shout out for her recent post on the German village that was losing its food diversity? A truly interesting, insightful post. She's thoughtful, opinionated, and certainly not shy; as the kids say, or used to say: "It's All Good."

I can't imagine why she doesn't like your stuff -- it's not boring or banal -- at least not in my humble opinion. It's interesting, different, and always funny. Moreover, you have a perspective that seems unique in this forum, and I, for one, wish you would post more. Of course, I've never posted at all (that's another story entirely) so I can't really complain that you (or Stella, for that matter) don't post more.

Anyway -- I will continue to read and enjoy Stella, as I will your posts. I hope Stella gives your work another chance, because I had this dream in which you and Stella, on a sunny back porch, enjoy some light libations and fresh food while finding out, as you sip and nosh, that you have a lot in common and could, in fact, become friends who enjoy each other's diverse take on things. That's it -- peace, out, and oh yes, Kumbaya.
I love ya Babe.

The rest - inconsequential.
I have read the post in question and like you both. I understand what she's saying about the commodification/ pornification of sex in the culture in general, but it seems to me that she misread your post.

There are lots of pleasant adjectives that could be applied to your channeling of Dr. Seuss, but a "display of sexual bravado" it isn't.
Love Stella! Love you! I totally made NO connection to you by reading Stella's post on Faux Sexuality! Blonde again! Right over my head and into the ether! I thought she might have disliked my fluff post on Jenna Jameson who was Oprah's guest yesterday. What do I know, anyway.

And, I love how you presented this post and the positive light you maintained all the way through. You'd better keep writing here, MTN!!!
I guess I'm the only one who thought that Stellaa's comment on your BDSM post about a word starting with B and ending with L referred to a word other than "banal"?
I didn't catch the connection with Stella's piece, but okay I'll go back and try to become annoyed with you. I like what you write, I think you may be a bit demented, which is also okay. Thank you.
Well, I happen to think you are witty in a very inappropriate way. That's a good thing on my book.
well, this is the first of your posts I have ever read. For what it's worth:

-- you have nothing to apologize for as a writer. you are cogent, self-deprecating; your Voice is likable, droll; you parse your sentences well. You spell correctly.

-- you come across as sincere, accessible and genuinely curious about the world. This is, again, a compliment to your writing. you might in fact be a total jerk -- but I somehow think you, like me, have no trouble admitting to it, if and when. I like that.

-- I share with you EXACTLY this unrequited like of Stellaa. She is a piece of work. You should see what happens when you try to agree her.

-- the very thing that is so appealing about her writing makes her very difficult to engage with. She is a curmudgeon, a bit of a snob, smart, sharp-edged in her writing, provocative.

-- She doesn't have much of a sense of humor, from what I have seen. That's OK, but you have to keep your expectations at a minimum.

-- She was incredibly sweet to me once about a difficulty, but that was on Facebook.

-- She shows shocking inability to see irony sometimes. She makes a post about her antipathy to lists -- which I loved, and mostly agree with -- but failed to see how the essence a of a list is not enumeration but rather the over-simplification of advice. And that her post did exactly that. Her subsequent sniffy disapproval of an, um, "hilarious" faux list I made seemed to me a bit doctrinaire.

-- I deliberately make this a pseudo list as a raspberry to stiff-necked resistance to lists

-- Her myth of online community piece was an enjoyable read -- as are all of her pieces -- but even more profoundly un-self-aware. She is using this online community and FB with vigor, daily, and in all the ways that everyone does, including to bond, to share, to snark and align, to get validation. Making her "myth" declamation a real head-scratcher. Not a trace of self-awareness in that one.

Finally: ultimately she's great, and I wouldn't take it personally. I read a FB comment by her once that was casually mysandrist. On the one hand women earn the right to do this, since so many of us guys represent so poorly; on the other hand, it's not fair to me and thee. Well, me anyway.

And faux sexuality? amateur sexuality? I have no idea what that even means, even after reading her post and comments. We were all amateurs once. Being a pro is not generally considered a cool thing, either, as in world's oldest. And faux? eh? who exactly are the "authentic sexuality" police and how do I apply for the job?

As insults go these are the most ridiculous and empty imaginable. You are shrewd and gentlemanly in how you respond here. I think the keystone phrase here is "pinot noir".
You, sir, are a writer and a gentleman.
I read what I read. I write what I write. That's what this site if for, no?
If you'd just learn to start charging for sex like Stellaa, you'd be okay.
Precisely what LuluandPhoebe said - especially the part about the wine
At least you know you are being read.
I interpret your blog as a satire on a certain type of masculine persona. What makes it interesting is the ambivalence - you seem conflicted about some of the more brittle aspects of gender, while at the same time you embrace it. My take is that people who don't "get" you are those that don't pick up on the satire, without which you're just another self-congratulatory dick.
...who recently wrote a line of passable french--with correct accent marks. I vote for satire...few self-congratulatory dicks have passable french grammar--unless it was plagiary.
This is my first time on your blog. I love the tone you took here. I like Stella too but she does tend to snipe from time to time.

"I just don’t see what I did to deserve her animus, rather than her simple uninterest."

Could it perhaps be related to the Pinot Noir?

Anyway, I like you and you can't stop me.
How come you've got your gaunch in such a twist MTN?

Stellaa didn't mention you by name, or at least not that I read. She asked why people liked reading the kind of blog material she described. So far, no one has answered her question, including me, but I've often wondered about that too. The first 20 times I read about strippers' experiences starting way back in the 70s I was moderately interested. Esquire ran one story that I thought was especially well-written and entertaining. But now that it's been done ad nauseum online, in books, magazines, TV shows, movies and porn, the "thrill" is long gone. The same goes for male fantasies about S/M, conquering lesbians, dominatrixes, and any other woman who has a brain and doesn't kowtow to male expectations, no matter who's writing them.

I like your writing style, you can be charmingly self-deprecating and you are entertaining. But the subject matter you've chosen -- not so much. Just my opinion and it can be ignored at will.
I was astounded to read her post slamming you. I really enjoy your writing, and I see no reason to denigrate someone else's blog. I am completely free to not read anything I don't enjoy. The fact that she looks you up just to say to herself, Yep... I was right... I still hate it.... is so sad.
M Chariot has taken the words from my mouth. Though of course not literally...
She hurt you with her lack of approval. You do not seem aware you were hurt. That is one of the problems with Man Talk.
Write for YOU, don't worry about the rest of it. :)
Regardless of what you say I enjoy ManTalkNow.
Reading is like eating - I like what I like, I don't like what I don't like, and some of the finer points of the likes and dislikes may be determined by mood. On the whole, I enjoy your writing.
Stella, its pretty basic. People read _____ because they enjoy it. :)
a lot of people who complain about not being liked or given enough attention get LOTS of attention, IMO. If Stellaa would drop by to tell me how banal I am (I really am) or mention me in one of her posts, I would love it. you love it too
Zul - read much ?

Stellaa's post wasn't slamming MTN - Stellaa didn't even mention MTN, in her post.
Her post asked why people ( in general ) feel the the need to write or read about false experience - porn, for example.
The sorts of things most of us grew out of before we grew up.
Nor did she need to go out of her way to look this stuff up.
The editors are putting it front and centre - commercially, sadly, at least in the US, decisions like that make sense.
At the expense, ultimately, of the sad women and frustrated men in your country who read them.

Read things, Zul. Life will eventually become clearer.
Wow... this is an awesome thread. And I am in no way related to man tok, or token!
Pretty much what Greg Correll said.
the not so-secret secret is that Stellaa is part of the Supercilious Matriarchy. the real secret, and the underlying problem, is that she hasnt had a really good orgasm in a really long time.

anyone out there, can you help her??
this is one of the most @#%& unmanly posts Ive seen on here. this is sniveling loser talk. dude, didnt you just write a blog saying that REAL MEN NEVER APOLOGIZE?? or back down?? geez.... maybe you are a female writing under a pseudonym after all.
You have fun writing MTN. I have fun reading it.
kim gamble oh how funny you tell someone to read things and here in a post a bit before you is Stella herself saying "I used one of your posts as an example, it was not all about you." Which seems to indicate that in fact ManTalkNow was indeed mentioned in the Stella post that inspired this post. Read things, really.
"I just don’t see what I did to deserve her animus, rather than her simple uninterest."

Based on the old saying that there's no "I" in "team," I say take the "I'm" out of animus and it all becomes clear. You've been mooned.
Sooo.... You know what's coming up really soon? Baseball's opening night, that's what!
ps congrats on the EP....
stellaa was complaining about two different posts that got EPs. which, admittedly, there is better or more erudite writing out there, if that is the standard... and looking at her blog, she's highly EP'd.....
I went back to stellaa's post & it now seems highly edited from what I recall... hmmmmm....
or maybe I am just losing my mind in cyberspace.... again.... #$%& hate it when that happens
The Phillies? You definitely *are* crazed, you Czar you. Not a chance.
Anthony you might need to read stallaa's post again, if you haven't already.

About twenty comments in, I said MTN ( aka thoth ).

Until then, stellaa nor her correspondents had referred to this sick puppie's post.

This is sexual scientology, and it appears to be working.

Stay happy, stay fulfilled. Read much, much more closely.
I can remember when people suspected (or mused) that I was Man Talk Now. I don't know (or care) who you are in real life, but I think you have done a marvelous job of pulling off a writing "persona", whether people like, hate, agree or disagree with it or not. Would that as many "writers" take as much pride (and care) in their craft as you do. To attack "it" says more about the attackers than it does about you.
misogyny leads to dead women, cartouche.

it's here, and it's way too sick to ignore.

the pride, as you say, and the care in their craft is chilling.

i'm the father of two girls. Tell me what that says about me.
Like your last line, I think she is crushing on you and you are crushing on her crushing on you crushing on her. Get a room, you two!
BTW, instead of focusing on the people that don't like you, why don't focus on the people who read and like your posts and leave good comments? Like me.
I enjoy your writings. Don't let her get you all cramped up with the writers'.
*ruffling your fur* not everyone is going to like you wolf boy, but I likes you just fine :)
do I think you actually do any of the things you write about- uh, no, but you write in an engaging and fun way that makes me laugh and want to flirt with you, so- does it need to be real? Perhaps I'm part of the generation that just wants to mentally experiment and not actually do anything. Laugh, with some of the things my brain comes up with, I'm all good with that.
Ramp what back, C.C. ?

My opinions on misogyny, or scientology ?

Or dead people, and how they got there ?
C.C. either you meant minority, or majority - you confused me there.

But yeah, you're probably right.

Good luck, y'all.
I think this is the first time I've visited your site. I can speak only to this particular post. I like your writing style - cheeky, modest, BANAL (NOT!).

I'm familiar with Stellaa, but not closely. I read a few of her posts. I was impressed with her very keen mind, and excellent writing style. She is clearly extremely gifted.

She is also a bit more caustic than my thin hide usually enjoys, so frankly I pretty much avoid most of her work (see her comment above: "a style like yours, can and should be criticized"). Perhaps this is my great loss - there are alot of excellent writers that I don't have time to read.

There are some very popular writers here that I don't read, and some rather "obscure" writers that I do read. But I'm not going to be herded through the gates of popularity - if someone cannot make their points respectfully, in most cases I'm too disinterested in the message. Again, my loss. My choice.

I sort of wish we could write with blinders on, without paying too much attention to what anyone else thinks or says about us. A tall order, to be sure.
MTN, your points are considerable and reasonably argued. And although I think she is wrong on a few counts, she does have a point or two worth considering (this said despite the fact that she doesn't need defending, let alone by me). This post (yours here) is very smooth--very, very smooth--with a mean bite. Calculated. That is fine, but it pretty much sums up my sense of most of your posts--smooth but...not so nice for women when examined carefully. I examine your posts from time to time for this reason, though I rarely comment (we've been there already!). I like to read your comment thread most of all! It could be argued that, since this OS platform is highly visible (and what is at stake is so great) that you should be challenged. Oftentimes, people on OS don't like to be challenged, however. They think it's rude--to be examined. They just want to have fun, "to party." The process can be rude if that is the intent. Do you see it that way?
Keep writing. I will too. It doesn't bother me so much if people don't believe I was actually a stripper. It's not something I hide and I have a story to share about survival and learning to love myself (insert violins).

What other people think of us is none of our business.
Well too bad. Nobody tells me what to do, so you are liked. Yah.
Although I find the general swooning and fawning of Open Salon's distaff audience over your every utterance a bit, um, laughable (let's leave it at that) you are one of my top 3 faves.

Sometimes you are even my #1 fave.

In any case, I always check in (in my own fits & starts) to see what you've been up to and to chuckle and smile at your point of view. You are always entertaining, even when deeply misguided. ;)

I heart you. Tell Stella to suck a lemon. (Oh, wait, already done.)
Seems like a lot of navel gazing to me
FranksAndBeans, what's wrong with my navel? I keep it very clean, and I think it's quite handsome!

(Er... yes, you're right, of course.)
Stellaa just wouldn't be Stella if she wasn't offended or mad about something.
Is that what you're doing, licking your naval? Don't stop writing, your subject matter is very entertaining to many here. You have been chosen as Editor's Pick more than once which says something. Enjoy the criticism, the fact of it means you are making an impact, whatever that is. Now, go howl at the moon.
Don't give Stellaa another thought. I love you madly.
That went well. ;)

I love yer stuff if that helps.

BR
How are the windmills?