MARY T. KELLY

I've Got Issues...

marytkelly

marytkelly
Location
Boulder, Colorado,
Birthday
October 22
Bio
Family, marital, and individual psychotherapist. Mother to four who no longer need my services but still enjoy my love as I do theirs. This is a good thing. I specialize in stepfamily dynamics and difficult transitions. I try to write from the heart with a sense of vulnerability, humor and a frank look at myself. Art shown: "Four Pots" by Lindsey Leavell

MY RECENT POSTS

JANUARY 17, 2011 10:43AM

How Many Stepmoms Will Kelsey Grammer's Kids Have?

Rate: 36 Flag
Grammer's fiance with his kids
Kayte Walsh, soon to be stepmother to four? 
 

I watch “Real Housewives of Beverly Hills”.  Don’t ask me why.  I’m sure it would take a very comfortable couch and years of psychoanalysis to try to figure it out.  I don’t have the time, patience or respect for psychoanalysis to do that.

Women love to watch these real housewives shows and act all shocked and horrified.  They/we/me pretend we are nothing like them.  We would never be that catty, that mean-spirited, that self-obsessed and we certainly would never ever make our lips look like that!

Whatever.  This is not the vortex of this post.  What I am especially fascinated with is Camille Grammer, soon to be Kelsey Grammer’s ex-wife, mother to two of his four children, wife #3 out of soon to be 4.

Without reducing myself to the generic cat fighting that women sometimes engage in (and yes they do), Camille Grammer is an interesting specimen.  She is a woman who had a surrogate deliver her two children because supposedly she has "Irritable Bowel Syndrome".  Really, the hideous stretch marks that were caused by the births of my four ungrateful children are no pretty sight, I can tell you that much.  WHATEVER her reasons, I think Camille might be brilliant.

Camille, at the urging of her husband of “Cheers” and “Frasier” fame, Kelsey Grammer, chose to expose her life on national television via a reality show ala Snookies or Snookums or whatever-her-name-is style.  We can only pray there’s no book deal in Camille’s future.

Watching the show can be painful (yes, I’m a closet masochist), but even I am uncomfortable watching Camille being told, while the camera is magnified on her face that the husband she purports to love madly is madly in love with a 29-year-old flight attendant he impregnated several months earlier (this ended in a miscarriage) who is madly in love with him and because they are so mad about each other, Kelsey, an addict to immediate gratification, must have a divorce and have it NOW, despite the 13-year-marriage and two small children involved.  He’s slated to marry Wife #4 in February of this year (isn’t that like, next month?).

I don’t care that Camille appears to be a self-centered, passive aggressive woman who sets up her “friends” to be verbally assaulted by a delusional psychic who makes Camille look like a close relative of Mother Teresa.  She is still a human being and I have great compassion for her.

I really do.  And I’ll tell you why.  Because in my Real life, I work with stepfamilies.  I work with ex-wives and I work with new wives.  I work with stepcouples, stepchildren, stepfathers, and mostly stepmothers, the lowest rung on the family ladder. 

If you’re a stepmother, you know exactly what I mean, unless you’re part of the 0.5% that doesn’t.

But this isn’t about the plight of stepmothers.  It’s about what I call, “Wannabee Mothers”…women who invade other womens’ lives and think that because they have some kind of relationship with a man who happens to be a father, they can suddenly lay claim to the children of that man as if they were virgin territory back in the days of the Wild Wild West.

On the “David Letterman” show this past Thursday night, David’s first guest was none other than Kelsey Grammer who entered the stage with confidence, grace and a bomb, I mean aplomb.  He was frothing at the mouth to share the good news of his impending nuptials and seemed ever so slightly irritated at having to first discuss his not-yet-finalized divorce.

He chided Letterman’s reticence for showing anything less than euphoria when he prompted the famous talk show host to be pleased for the “new developments” in his life. 

The camera then suddenly moved to the” green room” where the newly engaged flight attendant sat with Kelsey’s two children from his marriage to current wife Camille.

Kelsey was gushing about all their recent family time, the time he and “Kiss Me Who Needs A Condom Kate” have been spending with his two children and how fahbulous the children are doing. 

Kelsey’s son was perched on the lap of his soon-to-be stepmother while his daughter sat to the left of them.  All three of them had on the brightest of smiles and big waves to the audience who was applauding as if they had just won the recent Idaho state lottery and they were all one big regular Brady Bunch.  Grammer had said his children wanted to become actors and he wasn’t kidding.

So this is the thing that bothers me and because of the professional work I do, the truth of the matter is, a stepmother does not automatically a mother make.

Now before all you stepmothers get your panties all in a wad, simmer down.  Believe me, I know what you do.  Lord knows I know what you do!  And honestly, I’m on your side, AND the mother’s side, AND especially the children’s side.  But research that is so solid it’s considered fact and the National Stepfamily Resource Center, as well as the majority of stepfamily experts, advocate that stepparents, as a general rule of thumb, avoid trying to do anything that resembles parenting.  There’s good reason for this but that’s a subject for a different post.

Bottom line, Kelsey Grammer has had three marriages and is geared up for #4.  Will this make his new 29-year old bride stepmother to ALL four of his children from his three marriages?  I’m so confused.

Grammer’s children have no choice about their father’s marital liaisons and have no power over which women he chooses to bring into their lives.  But as soon as the enamored couple says, “I do”, wife #4 will be stepmother to Camille and Kelsey’s two young children.  Seeing Kelsey’s latest side-kick on national television sitting there with children perched on her lap like newly adopted puppies from the pound just didn’t sit well with me.  And knowing that Camille, the mother to those children, had to watch this made my heart hurt for her.

There is no more tenuous relationship than the relationship between the ex-wife and stepmother.  One must tread ever so carefully when trying to get between a mother and her cubs.  

The  “Big Love” final season premiered last night.  Thank god those polygamous Mormons don’t believe in divorce. 

 

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I don't know whether to laugh or frown, Mary. You hit so many buttons here. Mr. Grammer is a hideous man and only a space queen would marry that duck footed goof, especially so late in the game, when a good deal of his fortune is going out the door in the form of payments to ex's and children who got there before her. My ex married a mommie wanna be, who only wanted to be until the 'I do's' were done, then she 'didn't' - much to my pleasure and his surprise. I loved this post.
Yeah well she got him back good by going on the Stern show last week and insinuating that he is a cross dresser who has trouble performing. Which is worse?
Given the (un)popularity of this season's offering, the trainwreck qualities Camille brought to it and the fact it even sucked me into its vortex of insanity, this post becomes extremely important. Just because Camille, who indeed is human, is not very likable to we who were born on this planet does not make Mr. Grammer more human (different galaxy of origin most likely) but it raises a very significant question, and the confusion surrounding that question swirls the lives of more humans, those children who are likely going to be so confused about so many things it beggars imagination. Mainly, your point (and this is where my experience brings me into the stream of sympathy for Camille and her kids) that step-parents should indeed avoid at all costs trying to be something they manifestly are not is paramount. My awareness of this hit home during the reception following my second (and longest-running) marriage when a sister of my bride told my son, then six, when he referred to his natural mother as "my mom," that no no no! X is your mom now. There are no words for the fury that triggered. My son would be confused enough in time. That was an inauspicious beginning, but at least it was laid out there on the table like a huge, gutted fish, so it could be removed at once. Not pretty. My first wife was in many ways far worse than Camille, but she did not deserve that, nor did our two children. It is a seriously serious issue. Thanks for the perspective after so many of us enjoyed the moment of Camille's being taken down a peg or 12. She is, indeed, still a human being. Not one I'd want to hang out with, but those kids are being shaped by this insanity.
Rated.
I watch the real housewives of Park Slope through my bedroom window. Puts me to sleep even faster than TV.
I haven't watched the reality show but just the whiff of what the lifestyle is seems strange and I believe will be adding to the newest lost generation.
That's Hollywood for you.
He's such a creep and the kids are always caught in the middle of spoiled adult's emotions. A worthy rant indeed!
Whether someone is famous or not, this kind of behavior is just selfish. I see a big kid wanting gratification, as you do. Even if you can dismiss the hurt they do to their (ex)spouse (who is, after all, an adult who chose to become involved with someone who behaves like a child), the kids will be affected by this musical chairs game of parenting, even if everyone is loving and well-intentioned. Kids need stability, too.

I've known many wonderful step-parents (of both genders), including some that the stepkids were closer to than their biological parents. But I've also known many adults who had a horrible step-parent foisted on them in childhood and it did deep damage. In-between is what you're alluding to here -- that nothing replaces the original bond of parent and child, which should not be tampered with. There's no way a kid won't feel abandoned by the parent if that happens, no matter the real reasons.
My husband left me for another woman 26 years ago, so I'm over it -- sort of. The one thing that still fries my beans is the way he tried to incorporate our son into his "new family." WRONG! I laid down the law after my 14 year-old-son was invited to their wedding and I wasn't. (Oh, hell no, I wouldn't have attended!) She was not to attend anything connected with my son, ever. No baseball games, no parent-teacher conferences, no graduations, no nothin'. My ex and I took our son for a golf weekend when he turned 40, and nope, she was not welcome. I'm a bitch, huh?

Lezlie
Well, step-dad is pretty tough role, too, especially when daughters are involved and the father is jealous. Or so I'm told, time and again by those who've been there.
I am so happy that I lead the boring life that I do! This whole thing is really getting "icky!"
Written with a vengeance, yet an objectivity for all sides. I like that.
I have no pity for either Kelsey or Camille, who both appear to be real pieces of work. I do feel sorry for the kids, who could probably use a bit more stability in their lives.

I know a few people who are step-parents who have done an admirable job. I've seen others who are nightmares. My father endured years of physical and emotional abuse from a truly evil, selfish stepmother. He never recovered from it.

The situation Kelsey Grammer has created is the worst kind of selfishness.
The children are all that matters here. I hope that the love they have for and get from the children will teach them to live their lives in love.
rated with love
The things people do to their children!!!!
The children are old enough to know who their mother is, despite all of the juggling. Of course this doesn't make it less confusing. I feel sorry for all of them living out their lives in front of people who can say, "There go people who are worse off than me." They could be right.

Good job Mary!
R
Stellaa, well there's a whole new category isn't it? She's a surrogate stepmom of course and surely she must have some rights!

Elijah: Yes, "eeeeeew"....that's how it felt watching this.

Gabby: Your personal story will resonate with so many. I've seen this happen over and over. A prospective new wife reassuring the soon to be husband how much they want to be involved in the children's lives and then they change their mind. Which is something they should never have promised in the first place. But there's a reason for the expression "love is blind". I understand your relief. I have never tried to parent my husband's child. She has an active and very invested mother and I have total respect for her position, especially given that I am a mother myself. Thanks for reading and your good comment.

WSM: Yes I found it most unfortunate that she brought up the "cross dressing" aspect...something that most people have no understanding of. So I will say right now that there is no pathology directed at cross dressing men, many of whom are heterosexual. People will be very surprised to know how many male senators are making their speeches with women's underwear on. But that's a whole another post...

AJ: Thank you so much for sharing your personal story and unfortunately, I've heard many of these. So hurtful and what a horrible message to tell a child, "he referred to his natural mother as "my mom," that no no no! X is your mom now." I know of stepmothers who want to insist that when they marry their husbands, the children are told they now have another mother in their lives that has equal weight and power. Wrong! Insisting on something doesn't make it right or make it happen. And research is very strong in showing how disastrous this is for not only the children, but the remarriage. Thanks for understanding what I really was trying to say in this rant of a post.

Leon: I must look into that! It sounds better than Ambien.

rita: I think sociologists have a lot of work to do. I'm curious to see the research on how these serial marriages make their mark on society and more importantly, the children.

john: Well, no actually, it's real life. There are now more stepfamilies than nuclear family. What needs to be done is to really engage in honest conversation about stepfamily relationships and how truly complicated they are. Thanks for reading!

JC: Yes, I would say that at the minimum, Grammer is in some real denial as to how his children are impacted by these fairytale pursuits.

Nelle: Great comment and I appreciate you bringing up all the many, and there are many, great stepparents out there. But the wise stepparent knows ironically that it is best not to "parent". Tricky if they are the custodial stepparent. But too many stories of biological parents coming back and wonderful involved stepparent being dropped like a hot potato. In fact, the more unhealthy the biological parent, the greater the loyalty bind for the child. So many complications and layers! And in the case of Grammer using his children in what I feel back was a move to get back as his wife for the cross-dressing comment (this is mere speculation and theory on my part), showing his children with the new fiance while he was still married was bottom line, in extremely poor taste and I feel for his two small ones who were forced to endure it. Thanks again for reading and commenting.

L in the Southeast: No you are not a bitch. You are a Mother. So many mothers feel as you do. I have worked with stepmothers (and quite frankly, usually they are childless so it's hard for them to understand the perspective of the mothers) who demand that they be included in parent-teacher conferences. In most cases, it's unnecessary and makes it very difficult for the child and very much so, for the mother. Better to focus on the marriage and leave the parenting to the parents. Thanks for your honesty! You are not alone.

Tom: Step--anything is a tough role. Stepfathers do tend to have it a little easier because they don't tend to be as competitive or territorial. Most parents are threatened by the thought of anyone replacing them as parent. Thanks for reading.

ninjalady: Yes, there are great advantages to "boring"!

NEMac: Oh, I like the way you said that. Thank you!

bikepsychobabble: I am sorry for the pain your father endured. Sometimes, our life lessons can be such a pain. And I totally agree with you about Kelsey Grammer's choices. The children often get swallowed up in these stepfamily systems (although there are many who put too much emphasis on the kids out of guilt and that produces all sorts of problems as well). Thanks for reading.

RomanticPoetress: Your sentiments are admirable and one can only hope (although as I said in an earlier comment, I'm getting cynical). Thank you.

Dorinda: Hugs and love!

Liberal Southern Democrat: We all hurt our children, unwittingly most of the time. But this one should have been more obvious to Grammer and it wasn't. That's just a little bit scary. Thank you for reading.

Buffy: As you say, most children are very aware of who is mother and father and who is not. But it's the parents that need the clarification! Thank you.
Flower Child: You are one of the many wise stepparents out there who was realistic and knew what your priorities were. Thank you for the inspiration! Many stepmothers can use it.
Bonnie, the post is meant to sadden. As for my quote, I stand by it because it's the truth for so many. And btw, children should never be forced to love someone because their parent decides to marry them. It goes both ways. I've seen parents demand that their children love their new partners and all it causes is resentment and suffering. I think all human beings are fairly astute at knowing when someone doesn't like them...now love, that's a whole different story. I could tell some blood curdling stories of hateful behavior towards stepmothers by children that would make stomachs turn. Given the prominence of stepfamilies, I'm not greedy. Treating one another in loving and respectful ways makes most way ahead of the curve.
I am just shaking my head. Poor kids.
They never think about the children, your comparing them to brand new puppies, I think, hits the nail on the head. What happens when the new wears off? Stupid selfish people...
Kayte looks like one of the kids. KG's oldest daughter is 27, and this girl is 29, so I feel step-parenting there might be a little tricky, and I think it's also pretty gross.

I feel a little sympathy for Camille over the Letterman episode, but she should be fine with the 30 million. I also felt sorry for her when she said she thought she'd be married all her life, which is probably why she kind of took Kelsey for granted and didn't go to NY with him. I had also heard that Camille was also not so nice to Kelsey's older children, so it's too bad for the kids, but worse things could happen.

And while I can relate to Housewives of New York or Beverly Hills, no way could I relate to the New Jersey housewives or those of Atlanta. I also can't believe that blond on the Beverly Hills housewives used to be Prudence on Nanny and the Professor. What the hell happened there?!
Your post is interesting and thought-provoking as always, Mary. Of course, Camille was the least appealing of the Housewives. (Personally, I love the Maloof.) But, if they had ever once showed her *with* her children, reading a story, cuddling, or just hanging out with them, I doubt I'd be left with such a bad taste in my mouth concerning her mothering skills. I mean, four nannies? I get the distinct impression she is just not that into her kids and that part breaks my heart the most.~r
I just got sad reading about that Letterman appearance, and the surreal pretense of a happy, loving family that was presented to America. Forget Gay Marriage, it is marriages like this that are the real threat to the American social fabric that the Right is so worried about.
Hi Mary,

I don't watch Letterman (or much TV) but reading the visual of the green room with soon to be wife #4 with one kid in her lap and the other beside her, made me squirm....I know how I would feel if I were in Camille's shoes and had to see that kind of *stuff* on TV.

What are people thinking when they do this kind of stuff?
I have to agree with Joan H. I'm not sure those kids really have a Mother. With all of the nannies, the "new step-mom" will just be another adult in their lives. How sad for them, at least he wants to be seen with them. I'm quite sure I've never seen Camille with them ever!
Agree and disagree ... it's not hard to see from BOTH sides why Kelsey and Camille's relationship fell apart ... I think both are too self-involved to have a long-lasting marriage, so the fact that they are divorcing is not shocking, and I don't think either of them deserves any pity. I can't blame the new girlfriend/stepmom-to-be for trying to have a happy family either ... she deserves it as much as the first, second, and third wives did. I think it's unfortunately delusional on her part(considering who she is marrying), and she will learn in a hurry what is what in stepmom world.
Also wanted to say - I think the kids are more hurt by who their parents are in general than by their Dad's new relationship and butt-inski girlfriend. THAT in itself, is not what will ultimately cause these kids any harm. Maybe their mom blabbing her big silicone mouth about Dad cross-dressing among other WAY too personal rumors, maybe Dad being more concerned with having eye-candy on his arm than having real relationships to model for his kids ...
rjheart: You are not alone about the plastic surgery part. It seems like for most women, they either love RH's or they hate it to their core. I feel that way about "Big Love"...I just can't stomach that show. I so appreciated your comment. It was worthy of a post itself. You are right about how we expect stepparents to hold standards so high we don't ask them of anyone else. Actually, they are truly expected to be saints. I find that being part of a "stepfamily" is one of the most humbling experiences of my life. Thanks so much for your good comment.

maryway: I know!

Lunchlady2: Clearly, and this is common of many in divorce, there is a self-absorption for many reasons, some simple and some complicated. But in this case, the speed at which I see K. Grammer trying to get divorced so he can get married, yeah, seems incredibly selfish and stupid to me.

latethink: I was going to research how old Grammer's oldest daughter was. Thank you! And I agree... As for Camille, I heard that she is getting more like 50 million. I get the feeling she will be just fine. The blond you are referring to is "Kim" and I truly feel sorry for her. She seems so emotionally young. Maybe still stuck in those Disney days.

Joan H. It is heartbreaking to see all those nannies and no mommy time, but I also don't trust how they edit those shows. I may be giving more credit than credit is due. I like Maloof too, and I love the relationship she has with her husband. I love Lisa and find her to truly come across as a kind, caring and wise woman. Oh yeah, my post. Yes, I wonder if either one of the Grammers will have time for their children. And that is indeed sad. Money could never fill an ocean of hurt.

Flower Child: Even better! Yes, how wise of you and I am so happy it worked out for you. When I work with nuclear couples who are contemplating divorce, I try to give them the really big picture of what is in store for them. They never know that 71-74% of second marriages with children end in divorce. The rate goes up for 3rd marriages. Studies have shown that couples who stick out up to 5 years of difficulty, the majority of them are so happy they didn't divorce during those hard times. So, when possible, working it out with the husband and father of your child, who wouldn't just love that? And good for the two of you for your perseverance and love. Thanks for the clarification.

Procopius: "Forget Gay Marriage, it is marriages like this that are the real threat to the American social fabric that the Right is so worried about." Amen to that! As for the Letterman appearance, yes, it was sad.

Peggy: Hey, thanks for coming over to Open Salon and chiming in. I think you and I learned a lot of this stuff the hard way. Fortunately for me, and I'm pretty sure you, we've never had to see our children on our ex's girlfriend's lap! And to answer your question, clearly they aren't thinking. Thanks so much for reading!

Blu Speck: Good point...these children may be more motherless than anything else, but really, I have no idea of how they edit the show. Camille has complained of their editing. And you are far kinder to Kelsey Grammer than I. I think he used them as pawns in his divorce, but that's my judgment and I could be wrong wrong wrong. Thanks so much for reading.

jackiestep: I agree...no shock in the divorce. As for the young woman wanting an instant family, I'll say it this way, "Marriage to a man with children does not a family necessarily make". And if it does, and one could argue the percentage of that, it would take years. Call me a skeptic, but I don't think the marriage will last long enough. Thanks so much for joining OS to make your comment. I appreciated what you had to say.
jackiestep: Yes, there will be major levels of hurt and most of that will, as you so succinctly put, come from them. And the cross dressing comment, I heard that the other night and that was an extremely low blow. It gives cross dressers a bad name and I mean that sincerely. Based on the image projected by both of these people, the kids stand to carry some pretty major scars. Thanks for coming back.
I'm sorry but I just can't watch this stuff. Drama, drama, drama. -R-
Yes, poor Kim. She seems pretty sad, but she does seem like a pretty good mother, however immature. For some reason, I was shocked that she was not happier or more together. I really liked her when I was a kid, thought she'd be on top of the world by now. Isn't that odd?
Step grandmas are another problem. My grandaughters have two of them, and they are also called grandma, and are considered such. Just another complication.
What do people see in Kelsey Grammer I dont get it ...Sometimes I love the Housewives too..thanksfor the catch up !!
Fascinating. I have never forgotten seeing Camille go out on a tour to discuss her "Irritable bowel syndrome" like it was a brain tumor. I have that as do millions of people and we still managed to have babies, so what the heck is up with that?! I didn't know she used surrogates. I didn't know she had a reality show. I didn't know Kelsey Grammar was such a pathetic narcissist.
Christine, You are one wise woman!

latethink: Child actors don't seem to fare well as they age. I think it's one tough life to be a child actor and few seem to escape unscathed.

Lea: It gets so complicated! I actually use diagrams when working with stepfamilies. There are often more than 4 adults (multiple marriages), ex's, ex-step's, stepsiblings, half-siblings...how far does the step go...to the grandparents...the aunts and uncles? It gets very complicated.

Deborah: Based on what you didn't know, I think you may have been better off not reading this post! This stuff makes the movie, "It's Complicated" look like kindergarden.
Bravo!!! Standing Applause!!! Encore!!! You wrote so clearly what should have been a 10,000 piece jig saw puzzle. You know I don't have TV and when you write about this stuff I'm glad I don't. Except if I did have TV I would probably be hooked on this too and, like you, would diss any kind of analysis. Am over it! My big comment is "What stretch marks?" If you have them, I've never seen them. You are enviably beautiful -- outside and in. I'm glad I read this. I wish you had a nationally syndicated column so others could enjoy you like we get to. NO! Better yet! Oprah's in her last season. Time for the MaryTKelly Show!! Love you! RRRRR
Neil: Yes, yes and yes. Thank you for your very astute and wise comment.

Joan: You gotta love the love of a sister. No, I don't want to dismiss or demean your comment, but really, it just makes me want to get in my car and drive the 5 hours to the Butte and hug the life out of you. Well, not the life out of you, but hug you for your love of me. You are also so wise to not watch TV...but when you come to Boulder, I'm making you watch one of the RH of Beverly Hills episodes. Now do your sister proud and write something will you? You're so much more talented than me (and that is the truth).
Maybe Kelsey simply wants them to have as many step-moms as they do nannies. Camille and her children... I've never seen anyone appear so uninvolved. Kelsey could give two flips as he was able to leave them for such an extended period alone with Camille. But that's just me and my very southern belief that one should be extremely hands on with children. Frankly, I see these kids as the victims of a bevy adults that feel entitled. At any rate, I enjoyed this post because I too have a dirty secret... I am addicted to both the Beverly Hills and Atlanta casts.
I have aspirated orange juice and spewed it through my nose much like I do over any of Tink's posts. One line caused this fantastic display... "Kiss Me Who Needs a Condom Kate" That was seriously clever.
OK. I admit it. I watch all the Real Housewives shows. It's shallow, they are usually awful to each other, and yet, there I sit strangely fascinated with it all. In this case one can't help but feel for these children stuck in the middle of all this. Not a fan of Camille or Kelsey.
Excellent analysis of a painful situation. Most of these women seem so self-centered and shallow I doubt any of them will give these children the love they deserve, especially their own "mother."
i miss your idol posts
I don't know Mary, how many? (waving Groucho's cigar and wiggling eyebrows).