Mary Wollstonecraft

Sexism Hurts Men, Women, and Children

Mary Wollstonecraft

Mary Wollstonecraft
Birthday
July 07
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Mary Wollstonecraft is a group blog. Anyone can become a contributor. We welcome posts on feminism, sexism, misogyny, nonsexist childrearing, misandry, male-bashing. Email redstockinggrandma45@gmail.com or PM me to ask for login and password. If you prefer, ask me to post it. Mary Joan Koch/aka Redstocking Grandma http://open.salon.com/blog/mary_king

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MAY 29, 2009 11:11AM

Odetteroulette: What Sexism Feels Like

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I was impressed by Odetteroulette's vivid description of sexism in her comment on RenaissanceLady's  must-read Reverse Sexism-A Response to  Jodi-Kasten's Blog  She kindly gave me permission to post it. I highly recommend reading RenaissanceLady's post and the thoughtful comments it elicited.

Odetteroulette:

I'm going to say this as carefully as possible, knowing it to be true and knowing this comment will get the fire of a few people. 

Let me start it this way: 

I do not know what it is like to be black. I can imagine. I can. I can imagine how terrible it is for my nephew, who is black, or my cousin, who is also black when they are called 'nigger' or 'boy.' When they are ostracized from certain circles. When they are treated differently because of the color of their skin. Still. In these times, it hurts to write 'still.' 

I have great empathy for their struggles. I want to right these wrongs. BUT I can never really know what it is like to be black in this country. I cannot know. 

And by the same token, if you are not female, or have not experienced sexist behavior, you cannot understand what it is. Not fully. You can empathize. You can shout to the rooftops with me that sexism is wrong, wrong. But you cannot fully ever know. Which is why I think some of you think it does not exist unless you make it come to you. 

That is an awful thing to say, but that you don't see that, while rather amazing, is understandable. You've never felt it. You have no idea. And so, you don't have to believe it. Because you do not believe it has affected you. Although you are somewhat wrong about that. Sexism does affect us all, just not the same way.

Sometimes, sexism is like a cold breeze on your skin. You walk into a workplace, into an academic conversation (in my case) and subtly, quietly, the conversation always shifts away from your remarks. Or, worse, you're in a class, and you make a comment. The teacher nods and moves on. Five minutes later, the guy sitting next to you makes a comment. It's your comment from five minutes ago. The teacher says, How brilliant! How amazing. You think, am I invisible? This happens repeatedly. Finally, you point it out. You say, I said that a few minutes ago. After class, your fellow classmates, men and women, gang up on you to tell you that you were disruptive. You wonder if it's you, but then, you hear from other women that this exact same scenario happens all the time to them, to their friends, all women. 

Your coworker keeps looking at your chest and making remarks. When you finally complain, your boss says, Well, you need to wear less revealing clothing, completely ignoring the fact that you are wearing clothing up to your neck. Should you cover your face as well? The harassment from the guy continues. You finally file a formal complaint. He gets promoted in the next round. You get a five cent raise. Did I mention he comes to work stoned often and leaves early while you work your ass off always and stay late?

You are working in the same office with two men, both hired after you, one fairly good at his job, the other not so much. Both get promotions while you continue on in that department. If you make comments to your boss, you suddenly get no raises. Then, soon, you are let go. Budget cuts. Except no one else is let go. The two men get promoted again. 

You are told by your math teacher in 7th grade that girls aren't good at math. You believe him. He's so adamant. You stop studying, despite your good grades in previous math classes, because, no matter how well you do on the work, he still gives you a C. Even when the problems are right. You're a female. You're bad at math.

You are in a band with a bunch of men. They tell you that women don't play musical instruments as well. When you have a list, they say those are exceptions. When you point out that it only became really acceptable for women to play up front in the last few years, they say that doesn't count. 

You go to a party with a guy. In the midst of conversation with other men, you find that no one is listening to your words. They might comment to your guy but not to you. You try to join in and everyone ignores you. A bunch. You get angry and inject yourself forcefully into the conversation. They are cold. Your boyfriend is furious and tells you on the way home that you are "strident" and "harpy-like." 

And so it goes. It's the subtle understanding that you are less. That you aren't as important as the person with a penis standing next to you. Even if you don't accept it. Even if you don't believe it. Even if you fight it with every ounce of your being. So, please don't tell me I "cause" it, because I'm "expecting" it. Shame on anyone who says that. I don't expect it. But it happens about 85% of the time whether I expect it or not.

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Comments

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Women are the most oppressed "peoples" on the planet from whatever perspective you choose to look. Be it slavery, murder, no economic power, no ability to own property, working 24/7, no voting rights. So excuse me if I don't cry a river for every damn special interests group that comes along complaining their feelings are hurt. I've been telling this to my P.C. friends for years: yes, I'm sure your particular group you're crying about this week is having a hard time. Try being a woman on Planet Earth. For 5 minutes.

And Britain goes ahead and allows Shiri'a Law in their country. So even in Western countries where we've managed to scrape out some equality, it's tenuous at best.
It always strike me when people claim some other group is more oppressed than women, they forget that half of that group is women.
This is a wonderful, nuanced comment by OR. I agree, that so often sexism is intangible. Thanks for posting this.
...and then, when the President decides you'd make a great Supreme Court justice, the good old boy network accuses YOU of racism on the basis that you're not an affluent white male.

So much truth in here -- women are still told there are things we "can't do" as well as men, and if we actually succeed then it's a "fluke" or we're "one of the guys." I've never quite understood why that's considered a compliment. It's like saying, "You're cool because you're not like a WOMAN -- you have skills!"

Excellent post!
I read your comment, both here and in the original post. I accept your experience, but I have a hard time identifying myself with anyone who would treat you, or anybody, like that. I don't disbelieve you, but I don't know what else I can say to you except I both sympathize and empathize and wish it hadn't happened to you, and hope it won't happen again.
@Suzie -- "when the President decides you'd make a great Supreme Court justice, the good old boy network accuses YOU of racism on the basis that you're not an affluent white male."

If the truth be told, I think the Republicans would have gone after Solomon himself- or even Mother Theresa.
Women aren't the only ones to be ignored or glossed over in the workplace or class or social situations. Anyone that doesn't fit into the boys club suffers the same fate. If you aren't a vacuous, sports obsessed, beer drinking loser that never makes waves, then you'll never get ahead in corporate culture. Sexism is only one small part of what you're facing, or I wouldn't be able to identify with 90% of what you've posted above.
I missed Odette's comment so thanks for reposting. It says it so well. Women my age grew up with so much sexism (at school, at work etc) that I tend to forget how much I've experienced until I see a list like this. I think many of us just accepted it as the norm, until feminism started really changing things and of course "raising consciousness" about it.
Mr. E, it's not limited to gender relations, but honestly very few humans are that aware of their own behavior towards others. We do stuff unconsciously all the time. If we were to see video of ourselves interacting with others all day long, most of us would be shocked at a lot of it. We're locked inside our own subjective experience and say and do many things we're not that aware of, much less aware of how they affect others.
I read this and wondered if each of us is going to have to write our own post about sexism at work? I know some men have experienced it, but I truly believe most women have experienced for years/decades it in their workaday pasts. I think it has been improving, but it is not gone yet.

We don't have to ask for it, it is there, and too many of us have the knowledge firsthand. Sadly.
It's a bit better than it used to be, but as I say that, I know I'll get metaphorically kicked in the head for relaxing and thinking I'm going to be treated like the male teacher next to me.

I remember recently thinking about the demands of getting tenure, and how it's much harder for women to get it.

I do remember only a few years ago, we had a grad student who couldn't stop making offensive comments about how stupid that 'girl' student was or this 'chick' student was or "would the vagina please stop talking" or "man, I'd like to tap that" (a comment made right after class in front of the male professor).

We complained. Don't get me wrong. We all complained. But guess what? He's finishing up his degree this year.

We were told nothing could be done. He wasn't threatening anyone after all (this despite the fact that he shook his fist in the face of one of my friends and told her she was a stupid cunt--because she told him he needed more work on his paper--as his writing center tutor).

He was asked to 'tone it down.' And we were told 'boys will be boys.'

Really.
this was a wonderful comment on Odette's part. Thanks for highlighting it Mary and giving it extra exposure!
I had to take a break from OS for a couple of days. I am still raw from the whole thing, which is occurring at a time for tremendous difficulty for the poor women in our country who are served with a public health system in the process of being eviscerated. It was wonderful to come back to this post, just wonderful. Thank you.

Buffy, I applaud your suggestion!