This is my mom & her sister in 1946 in their home town of San Antonio, Texas.  Mom is the "tall" one.  She's nearly 5'4" which is tall on her side of the family.  I'm not sure what this photo has to do with my interview on feminism, except that we are all shaped by our mothers -- by their presence or their absence, by their views & actions, by their love, by their withdrawal of love.  Anyway...this is my mom looking very stern.  I'm guessing that my grandma is taking this picture.  My mother & my aunt did not always approve of THEIR mother because she was a bit of a party girl & liked to drink & get married a lot.

 Interview, Part 2:

Do you think boys are more constrained by sexual stereotypes than girls?

I have enormous sympathy for boys.  I have nephews & grandsons & brothers.  Unless they actively fit stereotypes (the jock, for example) they are open to humiliation & getting the crap beat out of them. 

My brothers had no male "example."  We grew up without any males in our lives, my father having left fairly early.  We did see my grandfathers, but not all that often.  My brothers had a hard time.  They tended towards either very independent female or gay (closeted) friends & these friends were their salvation because they also understood what it's like to be an outcast or marginalized by the mainstream.

Did you ever identify yourself as a feminist or a masculist?  When?  Did you change you mind as you got older?

I've always identified myself as a feminist.  I see feminism as believing that women have the right to be treated decently, as human beings equal to men, and that choices should be open to them & opportunities not denied to them because of their sex.

I did, at one point in my life, toss out my copy of "Letters to Ms." because I felt that the "letters" which I'd "right-on-ed" years earlier were now whiny & self-indulgent.  With young girls mutilated in Africa & women in the Middle East veiled & oppressed, it seemed silly to whine about who did the dishes every night. 

Besides, when I hit my forties my girls were in school & I had many hours to write novels & drink wine with my friends.  It was a good life, and made it easy to forget when it wasn't so good.  Still, I never dumped the mantle of feminist.

Do you think men need a masculist movement?  Have you ever been involved with the men's right's movement?

It can't be healthy for them to continually hear about the "evil white male."  Boys need to feel valued & important & they need a positive history.  My husband has been a big influence on our grandsons.  He can fix just about anything, and he passes on his knowledge to our grandsons.  I wonder sometimes, if our granddaughters lived closer, if he would pass it on to them.  I'm not sure.  Our daughters used to work with him out in the garage, hammering nails into wood, but most of the time they were creating art projects, writing adorable stuff like "I love you, Daddy."  

The boys love sitting on my lap hearing stories & being rocked to sleep, but they also love being with their grandpa who makes them wooden bows & arrows & lets them hoe the garden & dig for rocks.  They help me bake pies & knead bread & take photographs.  Kids like being involved, & maybe because my daughter is a feminist, the boys don't seem to see things (yet) as Boys Do This, Girls Do That. 

So I help them read & he helps them with math, same as when our girls were growing up.  These are the skills we have because of the eras in which we grew up, so we pass them on, boy or girl.

Do you think the feminist movement succeeded?

I do.  Definitely!  My daughters are far more comfortable in their skin than I have ever been.  They have way more options.  They are outspoken and unafraid. Sometimes when I tell them about "how it was" they look at me like I'm an apple-faced ancient recounting crossing the prairie in a covered wagon. ("Landsakes -- they didn't have them there flying machines back then.")

The one really anti-feminist thing I ever did was to sleep (that's a euphemism, people) with married men, which, in the jargon of the day, was considered "turning on your sisters," but which I justified by (1) thinking of myself as merely borrowing the guy, and (2)  seeing the wives as spoiled & rich & lazy & privileged & selfish. 

This attitude was no doubt picked up from my mom, who disliked women & especially the wives of the men she worked for, finding them weak & needy & dependent.  When I was a kid the Elizabeth Taylor/Eddie Fisher scandal was big news.  (For those too young to remember --  Elizabeth Taylor "stole" Eddie Fisher from his wife, Debbie Reynolds.)  My mom sided with Liz.  She just couldn't stand "that goody-goody Debbie Reynolds." Of course, maybe Mom just didn't like Tammy movies.

It was all pretty weird when I eventually became Debbie Reynolds.

Do we live in a postfeminist era?

I think there is definitely a backlash against feminism.  It's like I said earlier, if things are going well in your life & you're not discriminated against, it's easy to forget that other people still ARE.  I think it's easy to see feminists as these sort of ill-tempered bra-burning unattractive hissy-fit throwing women because that's often how they're presented & stereotyped historically.  If you're making big bucks & have a happy little life it's fun to pretend that it would've happened without the feminist movement, but in reality that movement was necessary, that movement opened eyes & forced issues.  

In 1976 I was still getting leered at & grab-assed by bosses who would complain if I gained a pound.   I completely understand women gaining weight as a form of protection;  I more than once fought off co-workers who claimed that I was "asking for it."

And working in the cannery after being allowed to apply for formerly "male-only" jobs, women were given the worst kind of shit work (cleaning up dead rodents beneath the tomato belt) & then placed at the farthest end of the cannery so that the bathroom trip to change a tampon would take up the entire break.

How much sexism did you perceive in the 2008 primaries & elections?

I thought Hillary Clinton (and even Sarah Palin) got nailed by the press for things that a man would've sailed on.  I was surprisingly emotional when she announced that it was over.  I thought she handled it beautifully & it was this truly historic moment.

Are OS men too nervous to post on sexism & feminism?

Nah, OS men are a brave & eloquent bunch.

Do you read any OS men who question feminism & uphold men's rights?

I read them & comment on them.  I like dialogues.  So far I haven't been involved in any big arguments on OS.

Is your partner or spouse concerned with equality issues?  Do you share housework & child care?

My husband is retired so NOW we share housework & (grand)child care.  He does the dishes & vacuuming & window washing plus almost everything outside.  I make sure we always have beer & peanuts & toilet paper in the house.  It works out fine. He's a neat freak & I'm a packrat.  If something bothers him, he cleans it. 

In our early years we used to have horrific fights over the housework.  He felt that since he "worked" all day that I should be cleaning house.  Now that he's home & we're watching grandkids a lot of the time, he is finally recognizing how freaking full-time raising little ones can be & has a lot more appreciation of the job.

What books shaped your ideas on sexism, women's liberation, men's rights?  What books do you love to read?  What novelists?  Is your favorite female writer a feminist? 

In the early '70's I took a course on The Psychology of Women at Modesto Junior College, but it was really a women's studies class.  I still have the journal I kept in that class.

After high school I started reading lots of stuff -- I still have my first issues of MS magazine.  I read Women In Sexist Society and Voices From Women's Liberation (I still have those books, my daughters read them when they were in high school).  I read Germaine Greer & stopped wearing underwear.  I became obsessed with Zelda Fitzgerald.

There were a few men in the Women's Studies class -- all but one dropped out, and I was impressed that he stuck it out as there was a lot of hostility directed towards him, as if he were a spy in an enemy camp. 

I also took a Women In History class, but dropped it because the teacher wouldn't stand up to some of the males in class who were very defensive & wanted it to be about them.  For instance, if she said something as basic as, "Women pioneers struggled on the trail," these guys would shout her down, insisting that "Male pioneers had it even harder!" and then would proceed to dominate the class talking about "men's" history (which is what we'd been hearing about our entire lives).  This pissed me off & I dropped the class & left to read women's history on my own. 

I also remember during this period watching Sunday Bloody Sunday in Film Appreciation & during the scene where two men kiss, most of the men in the room audibly groaned & squirmed & made it clear that they were repulsed by the kiss.

As for novelists -- I grew up reading Sue Barton  & Cherry Ames (I wanted to be a nurse) & Annie Oakley biographies & Louisa Mae Alcott.  Later, my favorite authors were men -- Steinbeck & Fitzgerald.  But as I got older I read Marge Piercy & Erica Jong (seeing How To Save Your Own Life as my Bible).  I love Larry McMurtry & James Lee Burke, but have also read everything Anne Tyler & Anne Lamott have ever written.  I love Annie Dillard, Susan Straight.  I love poetry.  Sharon Olds.  Mary Oliver.  Joy Harjo.  I have dog-eared copies of My Mother, My Self and Fat Is A Feminist Issue and Such A Pretty Face.  I believe most of these writers are feminist.

I think what shaped my tendency towards feminism was having a mother who was outspoken & independent (& something of a workaholic) & a dad who screwed-up.  I do find it bizarre that my mother effectively turned me into a "housewife" -- one who never considered college or a career but instead cooked and (sort of) cleaned & took care of her & my siblings.

For a couple of years I was -- like her -- a single working mom.  I HATED it & missed my daughter every single minute that I was at work & hated leaving her each morning & I whined & cried a lot & tried to be this strong "working" mom like my mother but I totally sucked at it.

When I was a child I dreamed of being a wife & mother, even as my own mom forbid us (wisely, I'm sure) from watching Ozzie & Harriet or The Donna Reed Show or any show with perky pearl-wearing housewives.  

And when I finally got to stay home with my daughters (because day care cost more than my income would've brought in) I literally cried with joy.  Every morning I cheerfully woke before my husband & made his coffee & breakfast & brought it to him in bed with the newspaper.  I baked homemade cookies &  honey wheat bread & truthfully was ecstatically happy to be home with the kids instead of working in a crappy job I hated. 

One of my favorite Eve Merriam poems (the wonderful "Grandmother's Sampler) reminds me of my mom in that the words warn against setting "yourself up a neat little suburban row."  But I was never happier than when I did exactly that.  

I had friends who, like my mom, claimed they'd go crazy if they had to stay home all day with kids.  And they went to work, and their kids turned out fine & happy, same as mine .  I don't think there's any magic choice.  The deal is, to HAVE a choice.

Suzie blogs at Suzie's Patchouli