Mary Wollstonecraft

Sexism Hurts Men, Women, and Children

Mary Wollstonecraft

Mary Wollstonecraft
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July 07
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Mary Wollstonecraft is a group blog. Anyone can become a contributor. We welcome posts on feminism, sexism, misogyny, nonsexist childrearing, misandry, male-bashing. Email redstockinggrandma45@gmail.com or PM me to ask for login and password. If you prefer, ask me to post it. Mary Joan Koch/aka Redstocking Grandma http://open.salon.com/blog/mary_king

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JANUARY 9, 2010 12:24PM

Sgt. Mom--Effective Response to Ungentlemanly Attentions

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To All OS Women: Print out this post and memorize it.  Make Sgt. Mom a favorite and read all her posts. To All OS Men: Would you make friends with Sgt. Mom?

Read her fascinating interview as well. 

1. It is occasionally brought to my attention that certain alleged gentlemen in public life have been behaving in an abusive and ungentlemanly manner, most particularly in their attentions to assorted female co-workers, subordinates, and passing strangers. Sgt. Mom spent 20 years in the military, a milieu almost overwhelmingly male, and has considerable experience in coping with those males of our species who fancy themselves as wolves, or give the impression they were raised by same. The thought has often occurred that the instinctive response of women who have been subjected to such disgraceful behavior may not always have been the most effective in preventing reoccurrence

2. Standards of gentlemanly gallantry have shifted somewhat in recent decades, admittedly. A male acquaintance who was a mad fan of the early James Bond films watched them on video some thirty years later and confessed himself appalled at the misogyny, and demeaning behavior demonstrated toward women by his hero. What was saucy and flirtatious in 1960 appeared terribly boorish by 1990. Standards of polite behavior were not assisted during this same period by any number of people, male and female, which had such standards all confused with political and economic justice, and were experimenting with new ways of getting along in a mature and professional manner.

3. Most of the gentlemen of Sgt. Mom’s acquaintance made accommodation  WRT male-female relationships by internalizing the standard that if they wouldn’t say it to their mother, sister, daughter, girlfriend or wife in public, then they certainly won’t say it to any other woman in a professional or social setting. This is a satisfactory and generally workable standard. There are however, those men who persist in ungallant, unwelcome and offensive behavior, and without “blaming the victims” in any way, I am afraid we have been remiss in our customary response to abuse in the workplace.

4. Ladies, those of us who have spent any time in a traditionally male-dominated field are aware of certain home truths. Among these truths is that some guys are just clueless jerks who will never come to an understating of how offensive they have been, when the response is the usual girly-girl passive-aggression. Smiling weakly, and then running to the ladies room for a good cry will not do any good. Moaning to your girlfriends, or simmering over it for three or four years before complaining to the Social Actions Office, or Human Relations, the crusading columnist for the LA Times, or your touchy-feely Womyn’s Support Network will not do any good. Even getting a lawyer, and bringing charges years after the fact will really not do much good, although it may make you feel better  and make your lawyer a little richer.

Is some guy saying something crude, offensive and demeaning to you? Nine out of ten, the offensive jerk has no clue - or if he does, he is your plain old garden-variety bully. The most effective way of responding to either version is to stand up straight, step up toe to toe, take off the genteel white gloves, squash down all your instinctive ladylike inhibitions…. And be just as crude, offensive and nasty in response. Don’t cry, don’t whine, just go straight for the jugular, or other vulnerable area; think of it as raising his consciousness, or establishing a good working understanding. If these actions are well and effectively performed, he will not grievously offend again, and if he does, you guarantee to serve up his balls on a silver plate, tastefully ornamented with a spring of parsley and perhaps a small tomato carved into the shape of a rose. The offender will be enlightened as to the error of his ways, and apologize abjectly;  you will shake hands and never mention it again.

In conclusion, I will remind you again; strong women do not take crap or look to others to fight for them; instead they dish it back with interest.

Sgt. Mom

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I'm all for not taking crap, but I know too many men who would be seriously turned on by a crude, nasty retort. Not the reaction I'm likely to be looking for. But I could do harsh -- can I get away with harsh?
My daughters and I have used such language, and we are usually good friends with men. They don't have to read our minds and they respect us. I don't get crap from men because if necessary I say fuck off, you jerk. Try it. I can't believe any man would be turned on by your " guarantee to serve up his balls on a silver plate, tastefully ornamented with a spring of parsley and perhaps a small tomato carved into the shape of a rose." The right sort of man would be highly amused.
I agree. If a man says offensive and rude remarks tear him a new one. Most men will back down and stop once told, or shown he is offending a woman. Some, as you say, don't have a clue. I posted a silly little thing this morning and was called on it. In my mind anyway, I would have written the same thing if the headline was switched from a man to a woman. The line between a joke and satire is small.
Story time - I was leading a team on a software project with an absentee PM. When the PM actually called a meeting to heap laud upon a vendor who had not delivered what he said they did, I spoke up and corrected his impression.

He spent the next 3 minutes yelling. At me. Apparently he expected me to burst into tears and run from the room, since all he saw was a small blonde woman, he went with his expectation that I'd fold under pressure.

When he finally ran out of steam, my team jumped to my defense, and he ended the meeting early.

Two weeks later he declared success, handed out t-shirts and moved on to another company.
Scanner I loved and laughed through your post. The guy might be disappointed by the jail time for theft of gum and candy. He must have been terrified by his need to run back.
I agree except in lots of cases, the woman is giving off signals that attract crude remarks. Women need to be more careful of their body language and how they dress. If they dress seductively, they will see the more crude side of men....or I should say, the "male" side of men.
Are you seriously saying Sgt. Mom is crude? I thought training women to be ladylike died in my mom's generation.
Not my style. I don't use language I don't want to hear. There are plenty of ways to tell a man or woman what you expect without using insults.
Sorry Patricia, but that attitude is totally Taliban. MEN and men alone are responsible for their actions. To blame women for arousing men's crudeness is akin to saying we should all be hidden under burkas so the poor men never get tempted. And who, exactly, would be the arbiter of what is or is not provocative? That's one slippery slope you start down even thinking such thoughts.
I have a few comments on this. When I was 20 it was 1981 very different times than now. I found feminists (myself included) in my generation were very angry. And we had the right to be. In those days I would have hurled back the insults but over time I found the anger became destructive to me. Now they I don't want to bring myself down to that name calling level. I find my daughter's generation (she is 19) have also found some clever, witty way to combat misogyny.

Here's an example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNM8u1YtjMs&feature=PlayList&p=DE77E8E81AA50ABD&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=8

but if all else fails if they are a straight male just call them a c@#* sucker. That might work too.
I don't believe in profanity for profanity's sake. That dilutes its impact. That's why I don't enjoy movies like knocked up.

Sgt. Mom was talking about men who fancy themselves wolves or are brought up by same, not your average guy. "Fuck you, jerk" seems more pithy to me than angry. It's short and sweet and gets my point across. Then I don't have to think about the jerk again.
Great post -- of use not only to women, but also to those men who (like myself in an earlier incarnation as a clueless teenager) also don't know what to say when bullies roam. And, I'm sad to report, there are nowadays some women among them...

I must say, however, that, even though Sgt. Mom's methods work remarkably often, every now and then you'll also find the kind who can bark back at you after you've done your best to put him/her in his/her place. You may see yourself engaging in a verbal duel -- it's good to be able to think ahead (let's say you know the person in question is capable of taking fire without immediately surrending) and practice with yourself a little what exactly you could say to him/her and how s/he probably would react. Play a few hypothetical war games in your own head every now and then, just to be sure you've kept your tongue sharp and polished.

Every now and then, you may also come upon the revengeful kind -- the one who will yield once you take a stand, but who will try to stab you on the back as soon as s/he gets a chance. Be careful with this kind -- if you have something that can be used to stab his/her back as well, you may be safer.
love the 3rd tag! I can't even type it though, because Sgt Mom reminds me too much of my parents. :) You can't see it, but I'm also sitting up straighter, and have stopped popping my gum.

"In conclusion, I will remind you again; strong women do not take crap or look to others to fight for them; instead they dish it back with interest." Amen to that! It's hard because I've been raised not to, but I do grouchy b*tch if I try. A look of sneering disgust says more than any words could and gets the point across nicely. It also stops any flame war to follow it with a deliberate turning of the back to the person. Women do it all the time, I've seen them, and have probably completely the maneuver myself unknowingly.
In answer to your question in the preamble, Mary Jo:

Sure I would make friends with her. Why the hell not? The Miss Manners delicacy of her expression doesn't conceal that her "ungentlemanly behaviour" is actually seriously bad stuff. Get the jerk to back off however you can. What means you use depends on social setting, culture and lots of other things. I was once present when a French waitress was the recipient of unwelcome advances from a French customer (OK, not as bad as what Sgt Mom is talking about, but requiring a response). She used the formality of French social life to freeze him out: "I would like very much to accommodate you, sir, BUT..." That was 25 years ago, and I still admire that woman. Being in the US military is a whole other ballgame, and I find it very easy to believe that calling a man obscene names would sometimes be the way to go. Certainly better than crying and running to the ladies' (do female soldiers really do that?).

Patricia K:

A gentleman makes a distinction between advances directed at him, and more general social behaviour like dressing a certain way. Body language may of course be directed to a certain man--but it is what it is, no more. If a man takes any of this as license to, for example, grab a woman's butt in the workplace, well then let him have it.

And if you think this is the "male" side of men, I can only say that the true expression of my feelings would require ungentlemanly language. Misandry? Here it is, folks.
I confess or boast that my tongue has always been sharp and polished in any encounter with a guy. I am appropriately grateful to my brilliant, witty dad and my five brothers.
Hey, if harsh works - go for it. This advice is about whatever works. Doing nothing and weeping inwardly (or in the ladies room) is well-establishing as Something Which Does Not Work.

Butch Up, and do something that works. Then be professional, and move on. Guys can be total sweeties, once that everyone understands the rules, perfectly. It's just that some of them will take a little more work in that respect.
hear, here.

I raised my three daughters on the The Code of the West.

1. Be polite and look for the compassionate way to sidestep wrongs done out of ignorance or for any other reason. Honor is an illusion: the stupidity of others speaks of them, not you. As Sgt. Mom says: if they insist on inflicting emotional pain say the raw thing first, see if it gets them to step away.

2. But do not allow anyone to lay hands on your person or any verbal or space/distance/behavior equivalent. Similarly do not allow the weak to have wrong done to them by the strong. Especially and always children.

If calling the authorities or marshaling others to help with physical restraint is prudent, always do the prudent thing. Don't make rage worse.

If you must respond physically, lay them out. No halfway measures.

On that last point: teach ALL children how to throw a punch and protect their face. If right-handed plant your right foot, put your left foot forward. Turn your body into the punch and follow thru. The soft neck is better than the hard cheek or nose, and he will stay down longer.

Most guys don't know how to fight. They grab and wrestle, throw roundhouses, and try to squeeze and pound. If you are "held" and pummeled, wait for it: then grab something (finger, nose) and bend it backwards til it snaps. He WILL go down.

As to his poor balls: If you can use your knee it is better than your foot (you won't lose balance). But best of all is grab and twist. Unless he had Navy seal training he is going down until you untwist. And he will not be back to work for 48 hrs.

Unless a life is in danger, do not hit with heavy objects or glassware. The movies lie: this will kill them.
Sgt. that tactic never worked for me, responding in kind was almost always taken as an invitation to up the ante, but maybe I just don't do it right. Once one party publicly declares war inevitably both parties are then compelled to try to win it. That's been my experience anyway.
This is great, and so true. As Sgt Mom was military, so was I. If we came upon a female member who were ranked above us, they were treated just s we would a male superior. A lot of men leave the military and this follows them. In my case, my Dad was military, so I was shown as a kid to respect women, and my elders. Say what you will about the south, manners are taught at an early age, or at least used to be. I would be happy to have Sgt Mom as a favorite!
"strong women do not take crap or look to others to fight for them; instead they dish it back with interest"
I married that lady--and she's a keeper.