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Miscellany, Musings, and Provocations

Michael Copperman

Michael Copperman
Location
Eugene, Oregon, USA
Birthday
June 11
Bio
Michael Copperman has a B.A. in English with creative writing from Stanford University, and teaches writing to non-traditional and at-risk students of color at the University of Oregon, where he received his MFA in Fiction. His nonfiction has appeared in Guernica, The Oxford American, Best of Creative Nonfiction (Norton Anthology, vol. III), Teachers and Writers, Brevity, Anderbo, The Oregonian, The Register-Guard, and The Eugene Weekly, and is forthcoming from Post Road, Stanford Magazine, and Copper Nickel. His fiction has been published in The Arkansas Review, 34th Parallel, and Thirdreader, and is forthcoming from Copper Nickel, Unsaid, and Southword. His story "Harm," was recently shortlisted for the The Sean Ó Faolain Prize in short fiction from the Munster Literature Centre. From 2002-04 he taught fourth grade in the rural black public schools of the Mississippi Delta, and he is working on a novel about that experience.

Editor’s Pick
AUGUST 5, 2008 8:16PM

On Being a Sexist, or, Paris Hilton ain't my kind of woman

Rate: 11 Flag

brit_paris_tie_big

 

   I have been called many things in twenty-eight years: Mexican, Korean, gook, chink, wetback, son of a mud-shark whore, Jap, mutt, china-man, stupid dumb ugly mean little man who don’t know nothing bout nothing (Shasprine Gaines had quite a tongue), fag, homo, chicken-fucker (I’m not sure where that guy was going, why), and most often asshole, by my friends, as a term of endearment.  Sticks and stones, and the experience of being ethnically ambiguous in America.  But until yesterday, I’d never once been called a sexist or a misogynist. 

            The reason, likely, is that I’m the sort of man who’s not uncomfortable calling himself a feminist.  I don’t talk hard about women, even around the boys after a couple beers and the break up fresh and raw.  I’ve never called a woman a bitch to her face, unless it was meant in jest and would be understood, and I’ve certainly never trotted out that word that starts with a c that is perhaps the only word in the English language that makes me so uncomfortable I cannot say it.  Several of my best friends are women, and um, I treat my mother well.  And, oh yeah, there’s the fact that I’m the sort of intellectual who teaches units on gender, who assigns freshman Gloria Steinem and Deborah Tannen and trots out figures about wage inequality and glass ceilings in American business and who lectures about the contradictory ideal of the American woman as created by the media and society.  As my friend Keetje said, “If you’re being called out as a sexist, America’s in pretty good shape.”

            But the world isn’t in good shape—and I’m not, simply not, misogynist.  And so I suppose I want to respond, not in a defensive way, but in a sort of manifesto, a statement of principle: I have the right to be accurate, and speak clearly, with the hope of being understood.  In this e-space, a spade will always be a spade.

            The charge of sexism was trotted out by fellow blogger Madame Bitch with regard to my essay about Mr. Obama and the McCain ad that featured Britney Spears and Paris Hilton.  In that essay, I first asserted that the two women were vacuous and vapid, and so there was no reasonable intellectual comparison with Mr. Obama.  Then I asserted that they had been chosen for this comparison because of the way they’re associated with sex and scandal.  Madame Bitch asserted that I was being sexist by ‘piling’ it on them, that they ‘cultivate stupid for money’, and bore no responsibility for their actions.  Instead, I should recognize that the ‘producers and back-end profiteers,’ the men, forced on Ms. Spears and Ms. Hilton their persona and engineered their public conduct for their own profit.  When I responded that there was extensive documentation of their daftness and superficiality, Madame said that I was saying ‘well, they asked for it,’ which was “like saying that anchorwomen and or CEOs who go out of their way to be fashionable invite criticism of their looks and clothes.”

CEO-Barbie-C
           

    Working from the bottom up, the analogy isn’t analogous—an anchorwoman or CEO is in their position largely, one would hope, on the basis of their intellectual (or professional) merit. Criticizing them due to their dress, then, is sexist, and they likely do face sexism.  Ms. Spears and Ms. Hilton do not rely on their brains.  Ms. Hilton is heir to the Hilton hotel fortune, and rose to greater prominence by way of a reality television show that documented her glitzy, superficial, hard-partying lifestyle.  Ms. Spears is a young pop star who became famous at sixteen for music and music videos about how sexy and amenable she was to being 'hit one more time.’  The two of them famously allowed the paparazzi to take pictures of them sans undergarments.  Ms. Spears has a ninth grade education; Ms. Hilton dropped out of high school but earned her GED.  Ms. Hilton is the person responsible for the word ‘hot’ coming to apply not just to physical appearance, but to anything—in other words, all that matters is those superficial aspects of anything that make it desirable.  She once asked what a soup kitchen was, and inquired of Wal-mart, “Do they make walls there?”  When her breast size increased a couple cups overnight, Ms. Spears famously insisted: “I did not have implants, I had a growth spurt.”  Ms. Hilton, when introduced to author Joan Collins, said, “If I could read a book, I'd definitely read one of yours.”    

paris_hilton081

 

            I’m all for a woman’s right to dress as she would and be free of the judgment or comments of men. I’m not all for women prominent in the public eye acting, talking, and comporting themselves foolishly and licentiously, glorifying only the superficial and sexual.  To suggest that these uber-rich starlets have no choice, that they are the victims of a vast patriarchal conspiracy, insults the vast majority of women who demonstrate intelligence and don’t rely on sex appeal alone—and must battle the sexism perpetuated by the stereotypes Paris and Britney conform to.  I’m not saying sexism isn’t rampant or that patriarchy doesn’t persist.  Ms. Clinton’s candidacy showed us just how much, to paraphrase Gloria Steinem, we still accept sexism as a matter of biology, though we reject such nonsense in examining race.  We have a long, long way to go—and I fully admit that as a man, I simply don’t know how hard it is to be a woman.  I understand, too, Madame’s resistance to the gleeful name-calling, the legions of men eager to claim power over a woman by speaking of her body, calling her a stupid bitch or whore or that c word that I can’t say.  But to suggest that no woman can be called vapid or unintelligent because that’s a part of the lexicon of sexism is, well, stupid.  If we cannot make distinctions based on evidence, we cannot say anything meaningful at all.

            When Madame B was first calling me a sexist, I spluttered a bit, got defensive.  What I should have done was explain what her reasoning reminded me of: that of a rather slow fraternity brother I taught last year.  We were in my unit on gender, studying Miss America as a case study, a cultural artifact that helps create the ‘ideal’ of the American woman.  He’d been disaffected the entire class, unhappy to be forced to think critically and speak clearly, but this day he was with it, tipped back the brim of his cap and tried to follow.  I showed video of the pageant, opened discussion of an article we’d read by former Miss America Kate Shindle.  He raised his hand, waved it in the air, and spoke with passion: “It’s just—it’s not fair.  These beautiful women, and people say they can’t be smart!”

paris_hilton048 

            I died a little inside, and here’s why: yes, beautiful women can be smart, and there’s an impulse by men to call any attractive woman stupid, and so claim a kind of power.  But what’s wrong with the Miss America pageant is that it suggests that before a woman can take the stage, before we listen to what she has to say, she must first look good in a bathing suit, and strut herself before the appraising eyes of the world.  Paris Hilton and Britney Spears are bathing suit strutters who make no gesture at being articulate or even promoting a cause, as the contestants of Miss America at least do.  They revel in, promote, and profit from a performance of the feminine that suggests that all there is to a woman is how ‘hot’ she is.  There’s no need to be able to, like, read a book, or know stuff.  As Paris Hilton once said, “I don’t really think, I just walk.”  There may be a sort of native intelligence to such calculated and exposed a walking—both Ms. Spears and Ms. Hilton seem to understand that there’s no such thing as bad publicity.  That does not make them the sort of role models that young women should imitate.  If it’s misogynist to assert that there’s more to a woman than her sex appeal, I am guilty as charged—and I want to part of a feminism that would condemn me for saying so.         

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Perhaps if you'd asserted, initially, that these two young woman purposefully and gleefully portray themselves asvacuous and vapid with the sole intent to boost their sexualized images, make money, and create envy-based emulation among young girls who don't know any better - - perhaps then your remark would have been read differently.

I read that whole comments thread and I think Madame Bitch was just plain wrong in calling you a sexist or a misogynist. However, I could see, through her aggression, the point she was trying to make, which was, denigrating these women for their choices -- what purpose does it serve? To belittle them as vacuous and vapid does, in fact, let guys like your dim frat boy student feel totally justified in dismissing all sexy women on the same terms.

Ms. Hilton and Ms. Spears do have to answer for their choices - for me, the best answer among true feminists is to avoid descending to the same level actual misogynists often catcall to me from. Far better to ignore them, or engage in a lucid dissection on the meaning of the comparison to Obama, than take the easy way out with name-calling.

nice essay - I appreciate it very much that you took the time to write this.
Michael, I don't know if I agree with your analysis on the original post that there were racial currents in the ad in question. My thought was that those two women were chosen strictly because of the bad publicity they have, and because Middle America, at least the Middle America McCain is trying to win over, associates them with tawdriness, promiscuity, youth, and ignorance. I'm but a man, but I saw nothing sexist about the post at all.
In Paris' defense, her comment that she isn't paid to think, but rather to walk, is remarkably self-aware.

I would offer only one point of dissent to what you said.

Brit is responsible for "Hit me baby one more time"
and
Xtina Aguilera said to "rub her the right way"

The fact that you don't know that makes you an extra sexy feminist!
Sometimes on OS, we have to post a defense of a position taken, other times elaborate the details of a post for better understanding. I thought you did a great job on the first post as well as this one. I don't think anyone mistakes you for a sexist or misogynst.

MB gets very technical about the use of the words chosen to make a point -- I think this comes from analyzing the law as she has done and continues to do. Words have power, ommisions have power -- the law has little room for adjectives that cannot be universally applied to a concept.

Therefore, what Sandra said in her first paragraph is correct. MB will jump on a variation of tone, or use of language that is not completely consistent in a post. You wrote a very reasoned essay that had a few words that were more emotionally charged than those in the rest of the sentences. She will go after you on things like this -- that is her nature and habit. One time I changed a portion of my post to be more consistent in the argument solely on MB's suggestion -- she was correct in what she had stated.

So, don't let this bug you too much. Please keep writing -- I really enjoy your style and thought process. As does Madame, or she wouldn't bother to argue. I will get in trouble for suggesting this, but that is OK. I just bared my soul on her behalf on her last post -- hopefully, I can be spared a little wrath from time to time...:)
Your first post on the McCain ad, and now this second one, are interesting, even (gasp!) mildly titillating in terms of the talk about the sexiness of Ms. Hilton and Ms. Spears, about whether criticism of them for what they are is sexist, about speculation on whether they parade in public without underwear, or whether they have enough brains between them to fill a mason jar.

And, by the way, I can hardly wait to hear from Mme. B. as she weighs in here. She's probably teeing her ball up right now.

However, after all is said and done, in a huff, or two huffs and a puff if you like; the two posts prove that the ad is working, in so far as it creates a sustained distraction from any of the actual issues that may be part of the 2008 presidential campaign.

Folks in Kansas City may not mull these posts; but the effect of the ads on them will be the same.

Chase that rabbit down the hole.
OK, I'm down here (she says from the hole, her voice echoing) - there's a bottle with the words "Drink Me". Now what do I do?
Sandra, if I could have anticipated the response from Madame, I would have said that. But I'd have needed to be, well, almost prescient.

Procopious, one always has the right to disagree. What are your reasons?

Epriddy, you're quite right that I don't know my pop.

Lalucas, that Madame B works in law makes sense, and you're right, there was a way that I popped the language regarding the two-- I was trying to reinforce the reasons they were being chosen. Discourse is discourse, and quite honestly, I hadn't thought through the reasons I've always felt a bit uncomfortable about Ms. Hilton and Ms. Spears, or why I felt comfortable characterizing them as 'superficial.' And I have to admit something: I felt a sort of pity for the two celebrities as I researched their lives via google. There is indeed an active impulse on behalf of men to point out how 'stupid' and 'easy' they are, and it's distasteful, even awful. By the end of five or ten websites, I began to understand what she meant about the 'piling it on,' though I maintain I wasn't really guilty of it. That being said (and as someone pointed out), Paris at least is startlingly self-aware-- which means she's making choices, not having them forced on her. I mean, she could live a quiet life of ease if she chose, out of the spotlight. That doesn't mean she's 'asking for it,' not comments such as those I found on the web... but it means she plays into all that intentionally. And, I would hold, in a way that's harmful in its broader implications.
Perhaps - but there was no prescience needed to understand the impact of using words like vacuous and vapid. It bears repeating - the best answer among true feminists is to avoid descending to the same level actual misogynists often catcall from. Name calling is the easy way out.
I'm happy to discuss this issue, but I am not sure why you have chosen to mischaracterize what I said. Lalucas gives me a great compliment in pointing out that I am a stickler for precision in words, but you have gone far beyond even wishy-washy imprecision.

I did not call you sexist, I did not use that word in that whole post. And when I used the word misogyny, I said called a comment of yours misogynistic, not you as a whole. So I think it's not correct to say, as you do, "When Madame B was first calling me a sexist" and "Madame Bitch asserted that I was being sexist by ‘piling’ it on them."

You further write in this post:

Madame Bitch asserted that I was being sexist by ‘piling’ it on them, that they ‘cultivate stupid for money’, and bore no responsibility for their actions. Instead, I should recognize that the ‘producers and back-end profiteers,’ the men, forced on Ms. Spears and Ms. Hilton their persona and engineered their public conduct for their own profit.

But in fact, I said the exact opposite:

And no, I'm not saying that men exploited or manipulated these innocent lambs -- these women know exactly what they're doing to gain fame and fortune, but also, there are male and female staffers, promoters and executives who actively profit from their cultivated images and exploits, and I don't think one can despise the icons any more than the leeches who profit off of them with any justification.

I'm not sure why you chose to misrepresent what I said.

In any case, even though I'm quite disappointed in how you've mangled what I said, I gave this topic some more thought, and here's what I found objectionable. Your digs at Britney and Paris were unnecessary to make your point. McCain chose them because they are well-known and ubiquitous, and for that same reason, there was no reason for you to explain exactly how stupid they are -- everyone already knows! But no, you needed to get one unnecessary slight at them, no matter what, so you implied that they are mentally retarded and barely literate. Why? What was the purpose of those digs? Just some artistic flourish? Pointing out that Britney and Paris aren't smart is not exactly original material, and you are smart enough to know that.

So your motivation seems unclear, because your post was about Obama and McCain.

What sheds more light on your possible motivations is that trashing women for being deficient in looks, fasionability, thinness, youth, and intelligence is a favorite American pasttime. And so your remarks, unnecessary to make any point except as a gratuitous by-the-way put-down, seem to me more in that vein than any other i can come up with.
Madame, I was indeed a bit revisionist, though I have to say that the difference between saying someone’s being misogynist and is misogynist is a bit of semantic hocus-pocus. And speaking of revisionism, when you say you said ‘the opposite,’ you’re fudging with time and chronology. That ‘opposite’ statement is from a third comment; what you said in your second comment was:

"I'm asking for not needlessly piling on about how stupid they are, because:
(1) in most likelihood, they are not actually stupid, they just play stupid on TV, they cultivate "stupid for money." That means they're not stupid, AND, that means you should be criticizing all the producers and back-end profiteers of this stupid cultivation equally,
and(2) you sound like you're saying "well, they asked for it."

That you clarified with something else after I pointed out a logical problem with those statements doesn’t mean I was mischaracterizing what you originally said.

All that being said, I do see your point now, as I said in an earlier comment… there’s a lot of really awful sentiment out there regarding women, and it gets directed at these two in the form of: ‘they’re stupid whores’ (and I'm quoting from a website here). That at least Paris plays right into this (and Britney does too, though more as a follower during the period she was under Paris’s wing) is troubling, but it certainly doesn’t justify the statements. I suppose what I’m really trying to say is that I sort of agree with you about the calculation (if not its source), and have found your comments quite smart. They forced me to think through what I was saying.

I guess I’m still a bit caught on the chicken or the egg part of this: are such stereotypes forced on these women, or perpetuated by them, even created, in some ways?

As for the use of language… hmmm. I’m not so sure I’d alter my diction in order to be a better feminist. I would if I thought this post on Open Salon was contributing to the wider nastiness and sexism out there. And I would where I was perhaps being inaccurate… I have to say that Paris seems awful calculating, on closer examination.
I like how Jon Stewart described Paris and Britney as "less than intellectual heavyweights."

I want to say one semi-related thing I feel quite strongly about as a postfeminist (post-postfeminist? where are we now?) young woman. I don't respect Madonna. If you remove sex from the equation, she'd have no career.

I know that sounds dumb because it's so obvious. But some people really think of her as a feminist icon because she chose to objectify herself, instead of having a man tell her to objectify herself. I don't buy this logic.

When Christina Aguilera released her Stripped album - a heavily sexual album - she talked about how empowered she was proclaiming her sexuality. Well, in fact she was selling her sexuality and that - of course - is the world's oldest profession. Even though she chose it, she still resorted to pre-feminist means.

So I wonder why there is such a paucity of females entertainers who don't eventually pose at least semi-nude pushing a product in the pages of a glossy body-dysmorphic-disorder-inducing women's magazine.

Can you (not YOU, Michael, but people at large) name a dozen women in the limelight who haven't relied on sex to build their careers? I don't care whether their objectification is self-chosen or not.

Oprah comes to mind... who else?
I'm very happy to have this discussion, it is a very interesting one.

I guess I’m still a bit caught on the chicken or the egg part of this: are such stereotypes forced on these women, or perpetuated by them, even created, in some ways?

I think this a good question. I think it's both. Some women are happy to stand in the music videos to make some money, actively perpetuating the stereotypes for fame and glory. Some women don't know any better and think this is the only way to be, and thus perpetuate them without really intending to.
"I wonder why there is such a paucity of females entertainers who don't eventually pose at least semi-nude pushing a product in the pages of a glossy"

I've wondered that too. I get really bummed out when female athletes do the cheesecake thing. Danica Kellar too.

to answer your question: Martha Stewart? Rosie O'Donnell.

I don't think of Madonna as a feminist icon, but I do respect her career - it is a tour de force in an industry that regularly builds up and destroys in 24-month cycles or less. She is a POP CULTURE icon, not a feminist icon. One does not make the other, though some (like Camille Paglia) seem to think it does.
Limelight being just music, or entertainment, or all and everything?

Katie Couric, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Jodie Foster (maybe), Diane Sawyer, Carly Fiorina
What was the purpose of the McCain advertisement. It had multiple layers. Michael dealt with the racial aspect, but I also think there was a intentional point he was making by equating him to Britney and Paris. Simply, that he is like a" dumb woman." Hence, the misogyny in the advertisement is vile and should be condemned. So, piling on the "dumb women" is not very useful, cause it misses the point, the intent of the McCain campaign to put down Obama and women. So, focusing on Britney and Paris is misguided. It's the typical Republican tradition of making Democrats seem weak and light weights when they need a "real man".
Katie Couric, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Jodie Foster (maybe), Diane Sawyer, Carly Fiorina

wiht the exception of Ms. Foster, I'd argue none of these women are entertainers
Life is like a box of limelight...

First, why is there such a paucity? Well, the money is good and the pressure is relentless and some point a girl will just break down if you keep at 'er long enough. This goes for boys nowadays, too - I don't see a paucity of beefcake on the freeway billboards around the Bay Area, or in the pages of Vanity Fair.

But here's a few women I consider to be pretty famous who have not overtly objectified themselves for money:

Naomi Klein, Amy Goodman, Fran Lebowitz, - easy enough, I guess, intellectual don't schwing in our culture. But even in rock and roll, Chrissy Hynde, Liz Phair - who wrote a very sexually explicit record and avoided the Xtina route, though she's much the poorer for having done so - and Cheryl Crow have all managed to be very true to their femininity and the sexuality without crossing into objectification for calculated financial gain.

The best example, however, may be ePriddy's hero, Dolly Parton, who has lived a life and survived an unparallelled career in the public eye, has damn near poked the public's eye out for more than 30 years, without ever taking her clothes off for money.

And Oprah? Have you ever seen a copy of O magazine? She may not get nekkid for the camera, but the degree of objectification she embraces is second, perhaps, only to that of Martha Stewart.
Rebecca, let me help you here: Melissa Etheridge. :)
Michelle Shocked
Michelle Ndege Ocello
Joni Mitchell
Sandra Bullock
Susan Sarandon
Edie Brickell
For what it's worth, my take on Michael's alleged "piling on" was that emphasizing Spears' and Hilton's relative lack of, um, intellectual gravity was intended to heighten the contrast between them and Obama, as part of Michael's larger point that selecting them as points of comparison was particularly ridiculous. I.e., the defense of the comparison was that they were comparing "apples to apples," and Michael was emphasizing, for effect, the ways in which this defense is false.

Perhaps there was some exaggeration, but people do this to underscore their arguments all the time, often without even consciously trying. The varied points about the validity of Spears' or Hilton's under-appreciated merits are well-taken, but I think it's pretty clear that Michael had no malicious or even remotely sexist intent. Just happened that his point of emphasis coincided with a theme that might be arguably sexist in another context.

But that's just me, and I'm just a part-time blog tourist who's late to the party.
Priddy, I have seen Michelle Shocked, Michelle Ndege Ocello,
Sandra Bullock, and Susan Sarandon all naked or semi-nude. Edie Brickell doesn't count; not enough at-bats.
I thought post-feminist icons recognized sex-as-power, and used their sex appeal not as a form of submission but as a means of getting a leg up on the competition? One must make an objective list of one's arsenal before storming the coffers. One must bring out the big guns.
Going gently into that good night - and gingerly at that - how about this: Britney and Paris, both definitive clown characters in show-biz terms - as send-ups of brainless female sexual teases (Hey! I'm not immune!) - are useful in this ad as discombobulating contrasts to the black candidate. Threatening on every level.

White women seeming to walk through the crowd toward the miscegenetic black man!

Of course, nothing like that happened in Berlin. It's just the miracle of creative, distracting, tape editing.

So?

And Bob Herbert, the New York Times columnist, got it wrong this week when, in analyzing the commercial on MSNBC's "Morning Joe" show, he misidentified the German war tower that dominated the scene in Berlin where Obama spoke as the "Leaning Tower of Pisa," suggesting massive, hobgoglinesque, subliminal phallic influences in the cutting of the McCain ad. Herbert was gonzo to such an extent that he was imagining the Washington Monument in the commercial as a cross-cut phallic image to the imagined leaning Italian penis building.

He was wrong. On both counts.

But he was right in suggesting the scurrilous ad under discussion is planting the idea in the minds of voters that Barack Obama, whether or not he has a taste for vapid white women, is the "other."

Not one of us.

A worthy distraction in 2008.
Gotta love the touch of class M. Chariot always brings.

There's a good amount of dissent even within the (self-described) feminist community as regards the best ways to vindicate feminism. I think this, as with debates over what best advances minority civil rights, centers on the difficulty of settling on an adequate functional definition of "empowerment."

In highly complex systems such as human society, what truly constitutes individual (and collective) empowerment is extremely difficult to gauge. Just one crude example: one black man's success in hip-hop, using the N-word to profitable effect and ostensibly to defang that word, can be interpreted by another to be contributing to oppression and oppressive language.
By the way, you all might enjoy this:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/5/21251/94575/186/563242
Oh, and tonight, the American media is running, somewhere near you, Paris Hilton's "rebuttal" to the McCain "celebrity ad" against Obama.

She "thinks" drilling for oil will help us get us to alternative sources, eventually. She says to America: "This is hot."

Tucker Bounds, the McCain spokesman, suggests also that Paris is ready to roll over for drilling.

I am relieved.
Dirigo -

That's what I linked to above. The video's also here:

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/64ad536a6d
Beauty is a form of power that predates democratic notions of equality and impartiality. Unearned and unfairly distributed in the population, beauty as a phenomenon is anomalous to rational order. Beauty is the wild card. Women who own and use it continue to be perceived by many as magical, evil, manipulative, cruel. We struggle to own them, humiliate them, find a way to bring them down, squeeze them back into our pat structures and identifiable systems of meaning and control.

It's never gonna happen.
Sarah Silverman? Whoopi Goldberg?

M. Chariot makes a good point: where's the line here between the post-feminist and feminist takes on sexuality and celebrity? And, as Chris points out, just how relevant is the idea of the n-word... it bears that history-- can you reclaim it? Do you make the history go away by avoiding it? How do you even talk about it?

Here, Sandra asserts that 'real feminists' don't use words like vacuous to describe women, because they function like the n-word. Does that mean there aren't women who are indeed vacuous, just as there are men who are? Do avoid perpetuating the stereotype that women aren't intelligent by softening our language, saying that Paris has 'failed to demonstrate a particularly robust intellect,' and chalk that up to her 'victimization by the patriarchy and materialistic values of our culture'? For that matter, do we imagine we should say that Paris 'cleverly deploys her sexuality for personal gain and prominence,' and ignore the other effects? Hmmm.
Michael,

By my humble appraisal, you're no sexist.

But what do I know? I'm just some pro-Obama, anti-Clinton dude.
Chris in DC, thanks. I'm delinquent in some of my tech skills and so didn't pick up Paris' video here.

All's well that ends well, including drilling.
But what do I know? I'm just some pro-Obama, anti-Clinton dude.

Don't.
That video is amazing. And I've got to say, though she didn't write the thing, of course, that it indeed points out the calculating part of her, the opportunistic streak, the... intelligence. I was wrong before. She knows precisely what she's doing, is self-aware and points it out here at times. It almost makes me like her, after all.
She pretend eats a mean hardee's burger, too.
Michael, clowns are very thoughtful.
Interesting that most of the women named are over fifty, some over sixty (and Dolly Parton - does she have an age?).

Also, a large percentage of the women named are lesbian. I think that's significant.

What else... oh yes, Sandra Bullock's early career was damn near pornographic, so she should probably not be counted.

Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton? Are they considered female entertainers? I can see that, I guess. Hillary's a great story teller. Nancy? Not so much..

Naomi Klein, Amy Goodman, Fran Lebowitz - entertainers? That's sort of insulting to their work.

Hmm... here's another challenge. An under-40 female entertainer you haven't seen naked or highly sexualized.

Go.
Ailsa, there aren't many, but how about Alicia Keyes?
Do [we] avoid perpetuating the stereotype that women aren't intelligent by softening our language, saying that Paris has 'failed to demonstrate a particularly robust intellect,' and chalk that up to her 'victimization by the patriarchy and materialistic values of our culture'?

I think the first part of this is a key question. There certainly are people who are perfect matches for pernicious stereotypes, and it's reasonable to wonder why we can't simply point this out. One answer is that a lot of such individual observations add up to a big picture that's essentially wrong. For example, a few years ago a study looked at news coverage of the poor, and found that when the poor are presented on network TV and in newspapers, over 60% of the time the individuals used to illustrate are African American. Any given broadcast or newspaper edition can't be faulted for inaccuracy, and yet this has contributed to the incorrect public perception that most black people are poor.

That said, I'm not sure that holding ourselves above the fray is the right way to go. I do think that the public personas of people like Paris and Britney (to the extent that I notice them) are a bad influence on our society. It's hard to do anything about this without pointing out that they're bad role models--and yet this just adds to their publicity.

I don't know.
Rob, your parallel is quite good, and relevant. I suppose the question I would ask about the public perception of 'black poverty' is, again, the same-- is it causal, or by perpetuating stereotype, does it contribute to America's inflexible class lines? I would tend to believe that if I can write about the situation and complications of poverty and discuss some of the ways that becomes linked to race, if I can describe the injustice of it and the bleakness of it in a fashion that complicates the reader's understanding, then that helps, even if I include a picture of black people and point out that the median income of a black family is something like 2/3 that of white families.

All of which brings me back to our parallel-- if I'm striking the word vacuous from my vocabulary as a means of speaking about blonde celebrities who don't read and are prone to public shenanigans, what then would I do? I suppose one answer is go further... by the end of this comment string, after my research on celebrity websites, seeing the way men there spoke of Paris and Britney, and after that video response she did, the picture that turns up is a lot more complex than the word vacuous. Hmmm.
Am I wrong to say Reese Witherspoon?
The point I tried to make that seems to have been missed by some is that it's far more significant, and a tribute to the women themselves, that we have not seen naked certain women in their 40s, 50s and more, who've been in the public eye (the original challenge was not, if I'm not mistaken restricted to "entertainers") for decades.

We may yet see Alicia Keys and Reese Witherspoon disrobe for a paycheck.
Actually, Reese Witherspoon briefly disrobed in the 1998 movie Twilight, co-starring Paul Newman. But I'd say the act of disrobing in a movie does not equal gratuitous sexualization. There is a big difference between, say, Christina Aguilera's actions following the release of "Stripped", and Reese's performance in "Twilight", or, say, Jodi Foster's nudity in several films she has appeared in, all of which were fairly integral to the story line.

We seem to make a big deal of 20- and 30- something women disrobing in movies. We don't have this conversation when men disrobe, though. Has Harvey Keitel been sexualized for his full frontal nudity in several films?

Here's a question: Scarlett Johannson is widely considered very sexy. Has she been sexualized by the media, or been an active participant in her sexualization like Paris or Britney? I think there's a big difference between Scarlett and them. Scarlett is sexy without being gratuitously sexualized.
I think M. Lazar makes a very good point. We see women in the media almost constantly. Politicans. Scientists. Journalists. Artists. Homemakers. Women from all walks of life are covered in the news. Entertainers like Paris and Britney work in a field in which youth and beauty are key to a certain kind of success. I think it is a bit naive to view their sexy and "outrageous" PR through a strictly feminist lens.
In answer to the Scarlett Johansson question, I'd say the only time she's a semi-decent actress is when she's playing a coquette. It's when she tries to be asexual that her acting gets truly unbelievable (see: Nanny Diaries).

She's also been playing highly sexualized characters since she was a quite young, and often the love object of a much older man. It's kind of her schtick or something.

Again - remove sex and she has no career. Remove sex and talk of her breasts, and she'd also apparently have nothing to discuss in interviews.
Queen Latifah
Alicia Keyes
Jennifer Hudson
Hillary Swank
Cate Blanchett
Lauryn Hill
Tori Amos
Chrissy Hynde
Joni Mitchell
Mariska Hartigay
I'm not certain why you feel the need to apologize to anybody.
"Katie Couric, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, Jodie Foster (maybe), Diane Sawyer, Carly Fiorina [...] wiht the exception of Ms. Foster, I'd argue none of these women are entertainers"

Oh, is *that* what it was a list of...

(I'd agree in any case, remove Jodie Foster)
--
Here, Sandra asserts that 'real feminists' don't use words like vacuous to describe women, because they function like the n-word. Does that mean there aren't women who are indeed vacuous, just as there are men who are? Do avoid perpetuating the stereotype that women aren't intelligent by softening our language, saying that Paris has 'failed to demonstrate a particularly robust intellect,' and chalk that up to her 'victimization by the patriarchy and materialistic values of our culture'?--

I would suggest that by employing such euphemisms and PC-isms that one is creating a new "Patriarchy" that's every bit as chauvinistic. Just say it like it is-- whatever it is. No need to sugar coat OR defend it. If Paris Hilton is vacuous, and I would certainly agree that appears to be the case in my view, who the hell cares? Why should that reflect on you in any context? Unless you are also vacuous and hope that while we're on the topic nobody's looking around at *you* ???
"Hmm... here's another challenge. An under-40 female entertainer you haven't seen naked or highly sexualized. "

Dakota Fanning