Evangelical Christianity isn't about forgiveness or mercy or generosity or any of that. It's about Conquering the World For Jesus. And in the course of that, naturally, they intend to plunder the world's riches and subjugate humanity. I'm not making that up. Listen to their sermons.

Perhaps because they're not really Christian, despite their self-aggrandizing claims to be so. Or perhaps because certain strains of fundamentalist Christian theology emphasize that homosexuality is, according to the Bible, an "abomination," as if this makes it a particularly loathesome and thus acceptably unforgivable offense. However, the Bible--the Old Testament--labels many things as "abominations," and the word "abomination" is, by the way, our English rendering of what may have been a far less emotionally-laden term in the original Aramaic, (was it Aramaic?).

Christ prescribed forgiveness of others for their sins, and he ministered among the lower depths; these so-called "Christians," however, seem to derive justification for the lack of mercy and forgiveness to the harsher, more punitive precepts of the Old Testament.

The story of David and Jonathon in the Book of Samuel, may well be a recordation of homosexual marriage or covenant. For an exigesis of the Hebrew which argues that David and Jonathon were lovers, see this link: http://www.allfaith.com/Grace/jon.html.

Jim S,

Not all Evangelicals want to conquer the world. The domionists are a small strain. Unfortunately, they are a virulent strain. I heard yesterday of soldier who was in basic training and was lectured that the war was about fighting for the God of America against their God. The recruit, a devout evangelical Christian, stepped out of formation and said, "I am fighting for my country, not Jesus. Jesus teaches peace." In her words, she said she felt they were trying to brainwash her. What a Patriot to stand up and speak out like that! We need more like her in our armed forces.

Jim S,

Not all Evangelicals want to conquer the world. The domionists are a small strain. Unfortunately, they are a virulent strain. I heard yesterday of soldier who was in basic training and was lectured that the war was about fighting for the God of America against their God. The recruit, a devout evangelical Christian, stepped out of formation and said, "I am fighting for my country, not Jesus. Jesus teaches peace." In her words, she said she felt they were trying to brainwash her. What a Patriot to stand up and speak out like that! We need more like her in our armed forces.

Now I really wish I'd sat still to watch the national news story about Mr. Haggard, but I rather made up my mind what it was all about and turned it off or wondered away, clicking my tongue in disgust at the whole thing.

Anyhoo, too bad Ted's friends abandoned him when he needed them most. So much for "comforting the sick and the afflicted". But what the hell do I know? I'm just a Buddah-palian trying to figure out why the spiritual side of humanity turns so damn mean so often.
Mullah indeed.
Nice post, thanks.

I love how the largest detractors outside of the community of evangelicals have so much expertise on the goings on inside that community. Most sound like bitter people who really need to get a grip. American Evangelical (protestant) Christianity has fed more, healed more, housed more, clothed more, educated more, politically liberated more and forgiven more debt to more people (even sworn enemies) than any country or culture in history.

One may be able to site examples of abuse and failure on the behalf of those who have failed Christianity, (like Ted) but our record is clear and western civilization is the crowning achievement of what can be accomplished by cultures birthed and founded on Christian principles. Ted hasn’t been hung out to dry or abandoned by the Christian community. There are those legalistic hard liners that might condemn him, but the largest part of the body of Christ wishes him and his family well. Any value judging that has been directed towards him, are simply because of the standards that were expected of him because of his leadership responsibility. We hope that like us the detractors would at least wish him the best and pray that his family is healed though this ordeal.

The detractors obviously haven’t investigated past the veneer that is usually presented by a secular media who may mean well but still can’t adequately speak for a culture that speaks a different social language. Most evangelicals are too busy living and supporting proven life principles than to fight a fight that is futile against those who have intellectualized faith and refuse to respect the largest part of the world that does believe. The same goes for any community. I wouldn’t expect the Christian community to speak on behalf of Muslims or the Muslim community to speak on behalf of gays. Oh and to Jim S, your silly comment “Plunder the worlds riches and subjugate humanity.” How revealing. There is no doubt about how you feel towards the evangelical community.....and capitalism for that matter. But…..Your right to say that was won by those freedom loving Christians who went before you to fight tyranny and oppression from the very thought police you now serve. Good day and I pray God blesses you and your family with prosperity and health.

@ Randy French
Our freedom was fought for by Jews, Muslims, Catholics and a few atheists, as well. Let's not forget that our founding fathers were largely deists who rejected the notion of Jesus as the son of god. Further, you discredit yourself by referring to all America as christian. We aren't, we don't have to be, and thats the point. I think people's umbrage with Christians these days is that Christians seem to think that we should all practice their faith-in our public schools, at public events, and that we should enact laws that reflect their religious beliefs. If you are willing to acknowlege that this country was founded by, is populated by, and fought for a large group of people who believe in many different things, maybe I can wrap my mind around the idea that evangelical, prosperity doctorine preachin' christians don't actually want to murder homosexuals and people that don't agree with christ in all things.

Randy writes: "I love how the largest detractors outside of the community of evangelicals have so much expertise on the goings on inside that community."

I was a fundamentalist Christian for ten years and know something about that community. For many fundamentalist or evangelical Christians friendships are contingent upon a friend continuing on in "the way." Someone who deviates from the way may very well find himself losing friends, sometimes even family.

I personally saw many cases in which people got divorced, at which point their conservative Christian friends drifted away. The Christian "friends" would sympathize for a while, drop by a couple of times to "view the wreckage," and then vanish.

I'm sure that is not the case with all conservative Christians, but it is not uncommon. In fact many Christians who turn away from the faith do so because of being poorly treated by their co-religionists.

I've felt sorry for Ted Haggard for a while now. If he could have just come out as a teenager, and gone to the prom with his high school boyfriend, this wouldn't be going on now.

What Ted Haggard is suffering is really only a more public version of the suffering that thousands of gay Christians go through. Since Haggard did his best to further the view of homosexuality as an abomination, I can't really feel any great remorse for him. He could have stood up for gay people, or at least toned down the importance of the subject (but I guess he needed to avert suspicion). Then again, I haven't seen this movie, so who knows?

Anyway, Slate had an interesting piece on the question of Haggard's atonement:

http://www.slate.com/id/2209983/

I take umbrage with Mr. Frenchs limited world view. I am a veteran who stood up fopr my country and served with full devotion. I am not a christian. I don't believe in god. My opinion of the evangelical faith is NOT based on the media's portrayal but of my own personal interaction with them. Can you explain Pat Robertsons booklet urging evangelicals to hide their faith and run for public office with the intent of serving the public only in the way that christians would have it? Can he explain to me why he is of the opinion that ONLY his personal brand of faith is correct and all others are by nature wrong and disloyal to the U.S.?
Save your prayers Mr. French, I don't need them. Or the blessing that you think that you may ask your god to confer. Lots of people are of many different faiths or of none at all. We are all good citizens and we are legion.

Randy,

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. What I found so sad about the documentary is how the Haggard family was banished from their community in Colorado Springs and the dearth of assistance that the family received. Ted Haggard has spent his entire working life working in the ministry and at the time of his banishment he was revered as being an inspiring and charismatic leader. Yet there seemed to be no offers of employment from any of the many churches in which he had preached. His relative lack of skills related to work in the secular world made it very difficult for him to find work outside of the church. I found the lack of support from his former community in finding him employment to be very perplexing.

The other aspect of the documentary that I found distressing is that Haggard is being ostracized from the Christian community for a trait that he has no more control over than the color of his eyes. There is increasing evidence that homosexuality is not something that can be cured and there are members of the Christian clergy that are beginning to accept this fact (see: http://articles.latimes.com/2007/jun/18/nation/na-exgay18 ). One can understand that Haggard’s rants on the pulpit against homosexuality were very likely his attempts to distance himself from what he feared were his unacceptable sexual desires. I can’t help but feel badly for a person finds himself in such a position, but I also have difficulty with religious groups that make a sin out of a trait that a person has little or no control.

And perhaps that is where I feel the greatest sadness, Randy. Many of the values Ted Haggard preached are values that I practice in my life. And he was obviously a very effective and well liked Christian Leader. I don’t understand how his church could ostracize such an effective leader and his family for something with which he was obviously struggling and which he had little or no control. I don’t think that Christ would approve of the behavior of the leadership of that church.

Haggard has a great opportunity through all of this to correct some of the wrongs he has propagated over the years. He is, or was, according to the documentary, taking some psychology classes. When asked why he is taking psychology, he candidly, honestly, and with very little hesitation admits that it was psychology that helped him through his troubled times in dealing with this dilemma. That would seemingly speak volumes about the value, the usefulness, of organized religion.

Ted and his Family should come out to the Yay area. They will, no matter what, be embraced. And they can all grow and become who they are, both he and his wife; and his children. This is the most tolerant and forgiving place I've ever encountered. They would find a place here, including one that worships a Christian god, which is what I assume he and his are seeking, and needing, to see them through.

Love your post and humility, Mike. Shadenfreude's a blast (that baby's a bear to spell, in't it?) until you get the whole, round, complex, deeply human story. And then there's just comradeship left--all of us trudging the same journey, wanting love and acceptance and maybe even, somehow, to get out alive.

Pelosi made GWB human too. Did you see that one?

I watched the documentary as well. Sort of mixed feeling about the message. From what I gathered not all his friends abandoned him, but the church that felt betrayed by him has for the most part has abandoned him.

Ted made several good points worth noting. One he is sorry for the what he considers the sin of homosexuality, but also has a gained more compassion for those who are personally struggling with the issue. Not that all do, but there are some who personally struggle with homosexuality and consider what they are doing a sin. This seems to outrage the media as well as the homosexual community.
But, facts are some feel trapped or overwhelmed by a variety of behaviors they consider sin, homosexuality being one of them.

The second point I think Ted was trying to make was there is a difference between the church and the business of the church. The church or body of Christ is not an organization or political movement, it is the body of believers. The business church is the buildings, TV stations, theme parks, political action committees and all the other commerce of religion which has very little to do with goals of Christianity.

I pray Ted and his family will find peace, and who knows maybe this will be the best thing for his soul. From my experience God uses more broken people then those who pretend to have it all together.

Well that's a kind of interesting take on what it means to fall from grace : "We initially see Ted and his family roasting marshmallows outside his home in Colorado Springs and him preaching to an adoring congregation of thousands at his church. What follows is a rapid descent in his fortunes where he and his family are living in a motel and Ted is trying to sell health insurance from house to house on a commission only basis. "


I had a similar thing happen to a friend of mine. He started out as a door to door insurance salesman working for commissions and relaxing in the evenings with a few marshmallows but then despite all his best efforts one day found himself on television preaching in front a camera to millions and trying to steal every last penny from them. It was really sad.

Jeez, I never thought about defending the asshole. No wonder mine got ignored...

I just finished watching the documentary. I must admit, when I first heard of his "fall," I figured he'd walk away with the church version of the golden parachute. Obviously not the case.

What surprised me was his inability to get a decent job. Whatever one thinks of his religion and of the actions that ended in his dismissal, the fact is that the guy built and ran a large organization with many employees and a large budget, and obviously had people skills.

Whatever "punishment" he may have deserved, I don't think he and his family deserved being turned into refugees and pariahs and almost paupers.

This is an interesting topic and you've received a mixture of great comments. I haven't seen the documentary, but I've followed the story of Ted Haggart and watched his interview on Larry King last night.

While I think it's digraceful that the church has turned away from the Haggart family, I think they bear some responsibility. When he was condemning homosexuals, he was involved with a male prostitute. I get a little tired of the holier-than-thou condemning people, but once it happens in their family, then it's OK. On Larry King, Haggarts wife said she knew he had some sexual confusion early on in their marriage...yet they ccontinued to condemn homosexuality. Their son said he was a little relieved when this all came out, because they had put their dad on a pedastal and now he was more human to them.

Oops, I accidently hit 'enter, but wasn't finished with my comment.

A lot of people have commented that he should apologize for his previous comments about homsexuality. I agree. When he is truly sorry for his past comments he made at the pulpit, then I will feel sorry for him.

Norwonk,

Thanks for citing the recent Slate article on Haggard (http://www.slate.com/id/2209983). It is well written and provides an interesting counterpoint to Pelosi's documentary.

I watched the film Thursday night and definitely came away with a much softer view of Haggard than I'd had before. He seems like a whipped dog. I'm not surprised that his friends have abandoned him, it's almost biblical in nature. I've never understood that brand of Christianity. They worship a God who is all love and forgiveness yet they are hateful and intolerant. Go figure.

I saw Haggart on Oprah. His entire life has been a lie and he is still in denial. Ditto for this wife. He says he still is attracted to men but is not gay. After all that is a choice, right?
I was also struck by the fact that his two children who appeared on the show seemed pretty tepid in their support and made comments that implied their family life had not been good even before he was outed.
Haggart is back in Colorado so expect him to make a comeback. He can be a poster boy for overcoming gayness. And all those women will be encouraged to help save these guys - just what we should all want for our daughters.

By the way, there are a lot of evangelicals who are in no way fundamentalists. The term simply means a person who spreads the word of God (which can be done through deeds as well as by preaching). there are also liberal evangelicals. Fundamentalists take the Bible literally (or think they do) but there are also fundamentalists who are not strong on evangelicals but follow a live and let live philosophy.) It only muddies the debate to mix the terms.
The problem is with people who try to cram their beliefs everyone else's throats the way so many right wing Christians do today. Trying to push their beliefs on children by getting them incorporated into school curriculum is particularly dangerous. Militant atheists are the flip side of that coin. Granted they are a small group in comparison and lack power, but their radical approach makes it harder for many atheists/agnostics to speak out because religious people fear that they will try to force their ideas on them and worse, on their children. As a result people have no clue how many non believers are productive citizens who contribute greatly to their community not immoral people out for themselves.
Ideologues of all stripes are bad for a democratic society which needs tolerance, not manipulative tactics and demonization of those with different beliefs.

Hmmm...I'd truly have to see the doc to have a change of heart. To me, he's just another bullshit artist with an ego problem. And his wife, another "stand by your man" sucker.

Religion in this day and age just curdles my blood. It's Godless.

I didn't see the documentary but saw his appearance on Larry King. And I didn't see anything that would alleviate my outrage at the hypocrisy of his powerful and public condemnation of gays.

It's regrettable he has been so summarily dumped by the church which might make him a sympathetic target. But at the same time, he continues to be in a type of denial that can only further undermine the gay cause.

When Larry King asked him, "So, what are you? Bisexual, gay...what?", Haggard answered, "That's a great question Larry."

And he went on to explain the diagnosis of two therapists the first of which described him as "heterosexual with gay attachment" and the second as "heterosexual with complications."

It's one thing to be conflicted personally, as most of us are about something in our lives. But to do so publicly, to parade yourself about in TV appearance after TV appearance, with such denial and smug hogwash, is a real disservice.

They believe in forgiveness but strangely have a huge streak of not forgiving their own...

On a political blog back in 2003/4 someone asked the question whether religion could exist without hypocrisy.

Well, and a lively discussion on whether religion was a sign of mental illness...

Interesting discussions...

I have no problem despising Haggard and their ilk because they made millions and punished and persecuted thousands and even more tens of thousands indirectly.

I was happy when Falwell died and when D. James Kennedy croaked I thought that the doors of hell would spit his carcass back out.

These people could make too many people swear off sex if they started marketing for it... I have no use for such malignant frauds.

Their damage will outlive them...

Ironic that Haggard might actually make it into heaven, if he changes his attitude and starts living a 'real life'...

This piece is powerful for its humanity. Kudos to Pelosi as well.

Thanks for the very interesting post. I have to say my heart goes out to the gays and lesbians who were disowned by their families thanks to Haggard's preachings against homosexuality. Now maybe Mr. Haggard can fully understand what it feels like to be cast aside and belittled.

As a result of you post, Mikek, I watched the documentary.

I had been inclined to deride Haggard for being a hypocrite, a person who denounced the gay community but would not own up to his own feelings. But, like you, I am now much more sympathetic to Haggard and his suffering.

I believe he does not even now realize what has been done to him. He still blames himself -- and I guess that's understandable, given the suffering his wife and children have endured, and the unflinching judgment of his church. But he does not see that the judgmental attitude of evangelicals contributed to his pain, going back to early adulthood when his feelings probably began. Maybe he could have accepted his feelings as a young man, and lived a more suthentic life.

Robert Cook's point is well-taken, that the Bible's comdemnation of homosexuality is taken out of context.

I myself don't take the Bible literally anyhow -- but if God is love, s/he loves the gay man or woman as much as the straight man or woman.

One of my children is gay, many incredible friends whom I've known my whle life are gay, this is no big deal for me -- but it IS a big deal to Haggard, because of the people he cares about.

I guess when you get to know someone, even through a documentary or through their writing, when you get to feel what it's really like to be them -- you can have a higher degree of compassion.

And that's what a good documentary is for. Also OS.

Real Christians lead by example, not by intimidation, intolerance and stealth. The more someone talks about their religion, the less I believe that they have any idea about what it really means, even to them.

Most "faith-based" Christians I've met have unfortunately been unkind, intolerant, ignorant and greedy people with no respect for anyone with even a moderately dissenting opinion. As a teacher, my experience has been that they are unwilling to even listen to anything new that doesn't 100 per cent support their views. I have had self-avowed Christian students from 17 to 60 and not one of them ever expressed the slightest concern for anybody else, but they talked long and loud about their "rights" and how they were being disadvantaged. It seemed that they had no boundaries whatsoever and routinely tried to hijack classroom discussion into preaching sesssions/bully pulpits. Church and state is separate in Canada, and certainly in classrooms unless they are private religious schools.

These students make their "Christianity" known very clearly and I always know that I have to walk on eggshells around them. I learned that the hard way when a few students decided to go after me when I stopped them from harassing and physically trying to harm a fellow classmate who was pregnant out of wedlock. Their reaction was to try to get me fired and it took me two long years to clear my name, even though other students and the pregnant woman supported me. During one incident, I had come into the classroom just in time to see them yanking the woman's chair out from under her when she went to sit down. She was nine months' pregnant at the time!

I am sure that not all evangelical Christians are like this but frankly, I have never met any who weren't.

As for Haggard, I haven't seen the documentary but one of my mentors in journalism once said something to me that I've never forgotten. He said that the lowest of the low were those who preyed upon the weak, the desperate and the vulnerable for profit. TV evangelists/hucksters are scum of the lowest order in my opinion. Still, I feel for anyone who has gone through what he has gone through, regardless of his part in it.

Human beings are complex. That's our simplicity. A good biography, written, on film, even a song, has to show the complexity - the riddles, the struggles, the good/bad, the strengths/weaknesses, and range of emotions and experiences. Otherwise it's one-dimensional propaganda and... DULL.

I've not seen this film (no HBO) but hope to. Netflix, maybe?

Your last sentence, right on... you may know
that protecting others of information often
results in keeping something from them;
blame, grudge, and, in this case, an excuse
for the homophobic Christian doctrines at play