I am posting this reflection now so there will be plenty of time for folks to read it before the end of Good Friday, the 10th of April. Let me make the usual disclaimer that this Reflection is written by a Christian for Christians, for those who are on a spiritual quest and are inquiring about the tenets of Christianity, and for all others who may find value in it if it helps them understand Christian belief a bit better.
Faith is a given in this Reflection. Therefore, there is no intention here to carry on dialogues about the validity of faith, the reality of events, or a general discussion of the merits of faith, or the lack thereof. Such discussions can be originated on other blogs.
It is my belief that Christians belong at the foot of the Cross on Good Friday. But it isn't the place where most people want to spend much time, and so Good Friday is also a time when many modern Protestant Churches do not even have services.
This phenomena of mass avoidance of Good Friday and spending time at the Cross is not all that new. In fact, the Bible tells us that most of the disciples were nowhere near the Cross when Jesus died.
Only His mother and the beloved disciple appear to have been close enough to actually hear him from the Cross, and that is told to us in only one of the four Gospels. There were some women who were his followers watching from a distance.
As for the inner core of believers, the ones who would become known as the apostles, most had gone into hiding, fearing that they would be subject to the same fate if they ventured out.
Peter had already denied three times that he even knew Jesus, let alone that he was Jesus' disciple. Peter did that even before he knew that Jesus would be sentenced to death.
The foot of the Cross may not be a comfortable place for a believer. But a believer should be there, comfortable or not. And that is the rub. We do not much like discomfort.
But, if we view it, as too many Christians today do, as simply as history, something that happened long ago, an evil deed perpetrated by others, then while we would not want to waste our time at the Cross, it would not bother us much if we did.
Most Christians are not so callous, and believe that this was a legal murder, this crucifixion, an evil deed perpetrated long, long ago by others. But along with that belief is the unstated idea the his crucifixion has nothing to do with us who were born 2000 years later.
They see us as benefiting from his sacrifice on the Cross. They do not see us as having any role in his death.
After all, didn't Jesus say, quite clearly, from the Cross, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." Yes, he did. Even the most Biblically illiterate Christian knows that much. "Father, forgive them" is exactly what he said.
Hearing that, what should we think? Well, one of the things many Christians have been thinking about for 2000 years is trying to identify just who "them" is. The irony in that, of course, is that Christianity has spent 2000 years concentrating so hard on trying to decide who "them" is, that the true point of his forgiveness is lost on us.
Many of us cannot understand implications of the prayer of forgiveness made by Jesus from the Cross because it never occurs to us that it might be directed at us. After all, Jesus says it is directed at "them," the ones who were killing Him. And that was 2000 years ago!
In our subconscious obsession with distancing ourselves from the Cross even faithful Christians have sought to define "them" as almost anyone other than "us." It takes a courageous Christian to hold a mirror to his face and admit, "them is me!"
Through the centuries many Christians have never actually come to grips with the truth that it is our sin for which he died. Not just for the sin of those who lived back then, but for the sins of the entire world, past, present and future.
The Bible is crystal clear that Jesus came to save not just some people at some particular time and place but to save all people at all times and in all places. And Jesus' prayer from the Cross is proof of that when we understand that we are included in those for whom Jesus asked forgiveness.
But, as a result of our failure to see our own sin, we have, over the centuries, looked for and found scapegoats: , the Romans, Pilate, the Sanhedrein, the Pharisees, the Saducees, the Chief Priests. But, mostly, Christianity has thrown a blanket indictment over one people, "THE JEWS!"
This tragic failure at introspection lead, in the middle of the last century, to the greatest holocaust that the world has ever known. And even today it leads to ungodly prejudice and anti-semitism, spewing bile-filled hatred at the people God called his "chosen."
The Jews were chosen not for themselves alone, but because they believed in the one God who blessed them so that they could be a blessing to all people. Most antisemites conveniently overlook that fact.
Our Jewish Messiah, the one we call the Christ, this Jesus of Nazareth, a simple Jewish rabbi, this Savior we worship and adore, did not blame the Jews. Nor did he condemn Pilate, or the Romans, or the Chief Priests, or any single individual or group.
He could have condemned them. In his place I imagine that we would condemn lots of people. But he said, plainly and clearly, "Father, forgive them."
Yet, to the shame of the Church, we have too often indulged ourselves in our fear of facing the Cross. We have feared looking into the mirror and having to say, "Oh My Lord Jesus, I crucified you!"
Thankfully, a few Christians have thought it through, have figured out that Jesus died for the sins of all of us, have understood that we, in every generation, crucify Jesus by our sin.
Listen to the words of the great 17th century hymnist, Johann Heermann, in his anthem of confession, "Ah, Holy Jesus" written at a time of great tribulation, during the Thirty Years War.
That man to judge Thee hath in hate pretended?
By foes derided, by Thine own rejected,
O most afflicted.
Who was the guilty- Who brought this upon Thee?
Alas, my treason, Jesus, hath undone Thee.
'Twas I, Lord, Jesus, I it was denied Thee!
I crucified Thee.
For me, kind Jesus, was Thine incarnation,
Thy mortal sorrow, and Thy life's oblation;
Thy death of anguish and Thy bitter passion,
For my salvation.
Lo, the Good Shepherd for the sheep is offered;
The slave hath sinned, and the Son hath suffered;
For our atonement, while he nothing heedeth,
God intercedeth.
Therefore, kind Jesus, since I cannot pay Thee,
I do adore Thee, and will ever pray Thee,
Think on Thy pity and Thy love unswerving,
Not my deserving.
But, unless we Christians can gather at the foot of the Cross of Jesus, and say with the hymnist, "I Crucified You," then we will never be able to feel the guilt that we need to confess. Neither will we be able to feel the pain Jesus felt on that cross, nor the love he offered to us.
Guilt is not something modern folk like to talk about. Nor is pain. Nor is forgiveness that comes to us through pain. And so, increasingly, much of the Protestant Church today flies through Palm Sunday and skips to Easter Sunday with only a small bow in the direction of the Cross.
One thing I am very pleased with in the Moravian Church that I served for the last five years of my ministry in is the Moravians still hold with the old idea that Holy Week means something.
And so Holy Week Readings are held each evening, up to and including Good Friday, consisting of readings from the Gospels and singing hymns that pull us into an understanding of our participation in the events leading to and ending in the crucifixion.
On that Cross of pain, Jesus, the one we call the Christ, the Messiah, offered us forgiveness of our sin, our personal sin. If we can begin, this Good Friday, to feel the guilt, to comprehend the pain, to sense the love of Christ for us, then we may be privileged to understand the real meaning of his offer of grace.
"Father, forgive them" is a singular act of grace bought for us, once, for all, by one who hung on a Cross and loved us enough to forgive us.
"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" is also a prayer. Never forget that. It was Jesus' prayer to the One who could grant forgiveness for the sake of His Son. And God heard Jesus' prayer.
By the glorious resurrection of Jesus, the one who loves us enough to forgive us, God, in fact, did forgive us. By raising Jesus, God did reconcile us to Himself through the shed blood of his Son.
I have always thought the the name Good Friday is such an bittersweet name to attach to the day of crucifixion. Bitter in the pain and ultimate sacrifice of the Son of God. But sweet in the fruit of that sacrifice, which is the promise of salvation to those who believe on him.
Through his sacrafice on the Cross, Jesus offers a special grace to those who believe in him. That grace is that they shall not perish but shall have everlasting life.
My Good Friday prayer for myself and for all who call themselves Christians is "Father, forgive us, for we know now what we did."
May all of you, my dear friends on OS, find peace and love, hope and joy, whatever your belief may be.
Monte
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That is simply the reason I despise the man the most. His blatant inability to own up to his mistakes. I myself make mistakes EVERY day. I often regret them and I often offer up apologies and they are sincere. I have had several attempts rebuffed on here and have numerous rebuffed in life. Why can't people (a) apologize when they are wrong, and (b) accept apologies when they are given sincerely? It's a blatant inability for people to forgive. Either themselves, others, or both.
I am a BIG believer in redemption when a person humbles themselves and asks for forgiveness. Even if people aren't Christians (and MANY, MANY Christians should heed this too), learn how to forgive and be forgiven. It's the most liberating of things. Holding on to grudges simply drags you down in life. I know, I've been there.
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Monte, this is beautiful.
Appreciated and Pawed with love.
Peace be with you, my friend, on the coming holy days.
denese
Maybe you can help. Please send me the NEW TESTAMENT verses(not some obscure phrase from the Torah) wherein Jesus condemns homosexuality and glorifies killing, since so many "Christians" do both. Also, the verses where Jesus talks about hell, that fabricated place invented by the R.C. Catholic Church to keep people fearful and obedient to their rulers and the R.C.C. Church, the R.C. Church always being in league with rulers and kings so as to keep their power and help rulers control the people.
"The foot of the Cross should not a comfortable place to be for a believer. But a believer should be there, comfortable or not. And that is the rub. We do not much like discomfort."
I've always tried to rationalize an all powerful God requiring the death of his own embodiment as penance for mortal sin. The only conclusion I've actually ever come to that makes sense to me is this (and obviously keep in mind that it's coming from a secular perspective):
The act of dying on the cross is the single most acknowledged act in the New Testament. The cross that Jesus died on is THE symbol of the Christian faith. John 3:16 is the most quoted verse in the new testament. I know all of this is old hat for a man as familiar with the Bible as you, but I promise I'm going somewhere with this.
I think that people are more to blame than even is pointed out in the Bible for the death of Christ. Yes sins need to be forgiven without sacrificial lambs or monetary contrition, but God could easily forgive his people their sins if he is all powerful.
I've rationalized it this way: it is man's love, not his sin that requires the sacrifice of Christ. To have someone give their life for you in a truly agonizing way really means something. It means that when you have lost everything you are loved. You are loved more than you've ever been loved before. And that love is so powerful it has transcended time and even slightly bends the power of God.
Though there are beautiful passages in the Bible, none of them truly compare to that kind of love and sacrifice. If I'm right about this (which would truly be a modern day miracle) Christians deserve to be at the foot of the cross even more than just for their sins. They should be there because our minds are still so primitive that we would require such an act.
This is probably total blasphemy, I hope it doesn't offend you or anyone else. It's just the only way I can reconcile the whole act.
And in the end, it kind of makes it even more special in a way to me.
Anyway, Monte, I loved this piece. Hope you have a wonderful Good Friday and Easter as well.
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and took so much with Him when He left.
Thank you, Monte
Thanks for this, Monte.
First, thank everybody who read and commented. I appreciate that you got something out of the post.
Thank you, Don. I appreciate that. And I look forward to reading the last installment of that interesting story you have been posting. All I need is TIME ;-)
Annette, thanks, I did not see the Passion of the Christ. I am not sure how it would strike me, but that was a personal decision of mine not to go. I felt I already keenly understood the pain of the Cross and did not feel I needed to go watch someone else's idea of what it was like. I love what your Church is doing to recognize Good Friday.
Thanks, Smama, yes, we do all belong at the foot of the cross every day. What a wonderful way to look at it.
AKA, I always appreciate it when you come by. It is strange that the day got that name. I can imagine that you got plenty of the somber side of Good Friday given that background. Seems to me you came out fine, though. ;-)
Blue, I have no idea why people are unable to forgive or even to recognize their own sin. as you say, holding grudges just hurts us. Sometimes I hold them for a while until I really think that through. As to Bush, if he were to acknowledge anything bad that he did there is room for forgiveness there. Jesus says to forgive our enemies. That is the really hard part. Personally, I think that i could forgive him but still insist that he also deserves to be placed in a position where justice is still required. I don't think that we can only talk about forgiveness and grace in a world where justice is needed.
Miko, sweet Lady, it is wonderful to have you visit and comment.
Thanks, Bill for the kind comments, and may these Holy Days be full of peace and love for you and yours.
denese: thanks for commenting. I appreciate that you have become a regular reader of my reflections.
Monte
Soap Box Amy: I am sorry that your view of Christianity has been shaped by those who abuse the faith for their own purposes. Part of the reason that I write here is to show people that Christianity is far more than the actions of certain groups or people.
I will be most happy to discuss the kind of issues that you bring up in a private conversation via PMs. Maybe we can study and tackle those issues together and come to a mutual understanding. I do know that many people have left the church with a deep bitterness because of false and silly teaching by the church or denomination they went to.
I am not that kind of Christian, never have been, and know many who are not. But you can only decide that for yourself by going back and reading my many reflections posted here on the faith.
Thank you for your heartfelt comments. I am sorry that you were wounded because there is no excuse for those who inflicted the pain you feel. Thank you for reading and commenting.
Mung, I appreciate your thoughtful and heartfelt comments. I don't want to disappoint you but your take on the Cross is a very respected and accepted part of the meaning of the Cross.
William Barclay, a wonderful Biblical theologian who wrote a beautiful set of commentaries on the Bible took a position on the meaning of the Cross which is very close to yours. And I share it as well. I actually wrote about it in one of my Reflections here, but I can't right now remember which one.
For Barclay the meaning of the Cross was that Jesus, stretched out on the Cross, was emblematic of Christ reaching out to us with his love, a love so deep and wide that we could hardly begin to comprehend it. Jesus was saying, according to Barclay, that you can beat me and ridicule me, you can mock me and spit on me, but nothing that you do can make me not love you.
And he and I and others also argue that when we love there will be sorrow because of that love when human relationships fail; but that no matter how we hurt there is One who will be there an love us.
C. S. Lewis, the greatest Christian apologist of the 20th century took a similar view. So, dear Mung, we have here "a modern day miracle." While the principle metaphor used to describe the Cross that we read about is atonement, the paying of a ransom for our sins, the idea that transcendent love is at the core of the faith is very well respected, and one that I share.
For one to argue that the Cross can signify only one thing is to be ignorant of the depth of God's knowledge and love.
Blessings, friend.
Thank you, Owl, for your kind words. I will try to live into them as best I can.
Bruce: Thanks for those profound words. I believe that one of the things he will take with him is us.
Thank you, Leeandra, and also for your PM. I will definitely check out that link.
COS: you write, "Forgiveness is the cornerstone of the Christian faith. It's that simple and that complex." That is so very true. I can easily visualize how you all in that Godspell production could be weeping at that moment. That will be a memory that you all can cherish.
Buffy, you have become a regular reader here and it is much appreciated. I am glad that you found value in this post.
Thanks everybody.
Monte
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It is a day I like to be very quiet, renew my vows as a human being, a wife, mother, friend, sister, grandmother. Feeling a sense of being "Christlike" is a real goal; a task worth assigning to one's life purpose. It grounds me in a sustaining faith while navigating the life God gave to me. A time for thanks and immense grattitude.
Thank you for this very special reminder of this sacred time of the year.
Our Pastor asked the other day, "What's so Good about Good Friday?" My answer---which startled and maybe even though him a bit was "Without Good Friday--there IS no Easter."
So yes---as you say, It was US. We did it. I'm in the front row of your virtual church with my hand up. Guilty.
And because of that I can be hopeful. Not before the guilt. After it.
You are a kind and gentle soul with an intellect full of grace.
"Jesus!?" they asked as he prepared to ascend, "give us your final words."
" Love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as you love yourself."
Thanks Monte, from what I've seen you're doing a pretty good job of it.
Until reading this essay, I don't think I've ever considered that the discomfort is also linked to guilt. It is very easy to blame the "bad guys," because we like to imagine we'd be different. We'd stand up for Jesus and rebel against the authorities. We'd somehow slip him out a side door to safety. At the very least we'd sit up with him all night in the Garden and try to negotiate with God for His Life the same as we negotiate for our own lives and those of our children.
But that's not the reality. The reality is that we are all sinners and we have all failed people, neglected those in need, lied to or hurt the ones we love. So we are represented not by some perfect fantasy of what we should be, but instead by those in the past who nailed Jesus to a Cross. We are the Romans. We are Pilate.
Every year I halfheartedly plan to attend a service -- a sunrise, or a Good Friday -- and every year something comes up -- I oversleep or I get busy and forget about it. Maybe this year I'll make it to "the foot of the Cross."
Thank you, Monte, for another deep and thought-provoking post.
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Cathy, your comment is very important to me. So many people are simply at a loss how to approach Good Friday, what to do, where to go, or how to even begin to look at it. I should have realized that you would already have a personal and very holy way to spent that time. Thank you for sharing it. Perhaps others will be able to take some of what you do and it can help them develop their own way to view this important date in Christian faith.
Hi, Roger. I marked you down on the sinner side (with me), so we can both take our hands down now. I think that your Pastor should have at least realized that you were someone who thought about and studied the theology that you believe. And you were right. Thanks for your comments.
Thank you, blonde, for your kind comment. I do try hard to be inclusive. It is a fine line to walk to both speak to Christians and yet also open up Christianity to others and invite them to understand it while not proselytizing. But I work very hard at that.
Tijo, I cannot say how honored I am that you feel this way about this. I just went out to your blog and read that re-post on "grace" that you wrote. It was absolutely wonderful and I recommend now that anyone reading this go to your blog after they finish here and read it. Thank you. Very much.
Hi, Juli, I too love quiet Good Friday services where the lights are low and we are encouraged to be with Christ as we wait with him, and for him, to enter into our hearts. I often offered not a service, but a vigil on the evening of Good Friday. We played appropriate instrumental music softly and subdued the lights, then we invited people to come in for as long or as short of time as they wished. I handed out Bible passages they could read, or they could pray, or meditate, or just be there. I usually held the open vigils from 7pm to 10pm. At the end of the time we turned the remaining lights off and left in silence. It was very beautiful even though the total number of people attending was not great.
Thank you, Suzie. I understand exactly how you could come to the conclusion that Christmas is much easier to deal with. Good Friday and Easter are complicated and can easily be misunderstood. And Good Friday can seem very somber if we forget what it was really about. I think that your words show that you now have a good grasp of where we all stand in relationship to the Cross. And remember that whether or not you get to a service this weekend, you have spent some time with us here at the foot of the Cross. And I will also be publishing in a couple of days my Easter Reflection which can possibly be of additional help as you ponder these two important Holy Days. Thanks so much for your clear and open comments.
Trudge, thanks for reading and your comment. I especially thank you for it because that is precisely what I hoped people would feel about that prayer: "Monte, you wrote, "Father, forgive us, for we know now what we did." That simple prayer says it all, my friend."
My thanks to all of you for these wonderful comments.
Monte
John 3:17 (New King James Version)
17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
I just got back from a seder supper. A good cause for reflection.
You have endured so much pain, I wish you a peaceful, loving, joyful and rewarding Easter. And surcease from pain, if only so you may be better able to focus fully on contemplation and prayer.
Our church acts out the Passion on Good Friday, assigning parts to the church members, who call out for Jesus to be crucified. Playing this part is very painful, but I think it's important, and not just because Christ was symbolically crucified for our sins: why should we be so prideful as to think we would have behaved differently if we had been there? Even Jesus' best friends didn't stand up for him at the end. How many outrages are we surrounded by at this very moment without feeling strongly enough to do something about them? Each one of us, every day, is crucifying Jesus.
Very nice sermon, thank you.
By this age I am very comfortably an atheist with a deep distrust of ANY organized religion.
But you have said that this article was not for one like me.So no debate. I agree religion is all about faith. Well written.
I can't say if that still holds true for the preachings of today, but it was certainly a large part of my religious education back then.
I enjoy your perspective on Christianity and Religions in general and look forward to your next post!
SALLY, thanks for reading and your comments. We always seem to learn that we are all brothers and sisters in the end and it would surely help if we all knew that from the beginning. I apologize to all those of other faiths, especially to those of our sister religions, who have been slandered and murdered by those who have held the Christian flag over their evil.
My pain is controllable except for a few hours after waking as long as I watch what I do. I do hope to have a prayerful and contemplative Good Friday and Easter. I am not up to going to any services, but I expect to spend those two days in personal devotion.
DJOHN, Thank you for reading and commenting. I agree that our fellow Christians should be able to be comfortable at the foot of the Cross. But organized Christianity and many pastors simply do not dwell long there. So much of the lack of emphasis on Good Friday in the church today has to be laid at the feet of the leadership. I liked very much your post on this holy time that I read last night.
Hello, ALLIE. Since there are so few lay Christians who bother with Good Friday services, even when they are offered, I long ago decided that on Palm Sunday we would consider it Palm/Passion Sunday. Many churches now do that. And on that Sunday we did what I called a Chancel Drama of the Passion, using a resource that takes the gospel of Matthew and assigns parts to individuals and the Congregation. One of the most emotional times of the drama is where the Congregation, as one voice, shouts over and over "Crucify him!" And it is very painful, but beautiful in its own way, because it helps us connect with the truth.
TRAVELLER, I now know a bit why you chose your pen name. That is an impressive background and it may well be the way many families will look in the future. I am sorry that you felt that I said that this Reflection was not for "one like" you. That was never my intent. What I said was that it was, in addition to Christians and those of other faiths, "...for others who may find value in it if it helps them understand Christian belief a bit better." That surely includes you or you would not have read it and made such useful comments.
What I did also say was, "This Reflection assumes faith, or the quest for it. There is no intention here to carry on dialogues about the validity of faith, the reality of events, or a general discussion of the merits of faith, or lack thereof." I can understand how that would give you the idea that it was not for you. I apologies and will change the wording of that disclaimer. A disclaimer similar to that has been in the last several Reflection posts because for the first few Reflections I posted there were some very angry and viscous attacks on them, including personal attacks on me, by members who wanted to argue that religion, especially organized religion, was false, evil, stupid, dumb, destructive, etc. They insisted that they would disrupt as much as possible any comments from believers of any stripe. And others were then hesitant to comment because they did not want to get caught up in the hatred. I ended up inviting those who wrote not to help but to destroy to get off of my blog and spew their hatred on their own blog.
This blog post is for people of good will who wish to learn more about Christianity and a special day within the Christian calendar. Not for arguing the validity of faith. Your calm and helpful comments indicate clearly that you are not one of those hateful people. And you are always welcome here.
MICHAEL, thanks for reading and commenting. Southern Baptists are not my cup of tea most of the time but I have had good friends of that denomination and they were wonderful people. And they all had very good understanding about the basics of the faith, so I can't imagine, knowing you, that it hurt you one bit to be raised that way.
You have always been and still are one of those OSers that I feel most close to in that our minds and hearts seem to resonate on the same pitch. Always good to have you around my blog.
(PS: I started this little note to you about 15 minutes ago because Jake just jumped on my key board and told me in no uncertain terms that he was more important than anything on the internet. So he settled in to tell me about his morning. Then when he had my full attention and affection he jumps down. Of course. Cats do what they do when they want to do it. I think you know all about that.)
Yes, Ric tweaked my banner. Did an excellent job as usual. That pic of me was on the beach at Tampa, when we went down to see Earl for a week between Christmas and New Years in 2003. He died within about a year after that. He had been fighting cancer for years.
I still miss him. So one of the reasons I wrote about our escapades on the bikes was to work out some of my grief over him. But I haven't quite got that totally processed. He was a special guy. My best friend for the better part of my life, and Best Man at our wedding.
Thanks, Mike and everybody who read and commented.
God bless you.
Monte
Have you ever been to the Moravian Community in Old Salem, NC?
Peace to you this Holy Week!
Robin
p.s. rated and posted to my friends on facebook
God bless,
Monte
Happy Easter, Monte and best wishes to you and your family :)
Blessings and Peace.
And a very Happy and Blessed Easter to you all.
My Easter Reflection will be posted this evening.
Monte
Have a wonderful Easter.
Monte
I was stumped as to what I could say about this. Then the damn answer came to me out of the blue. I was thinking about the historical Jesus, I'm ashamed to admit; you've warned us against that. "So sorry , but it wasn't me, man,"(who put you up there) was my initial reaction.
Lately I've had some tough emotional territory to cross. Etc etc. I won't elaborate on the details. I've been frustrated and resentful, because I haven't been flying as high as I was awhile ago , and so was blaming everyone else: society, capitalism, my mother, my girlfriend, the full moon, etc.
My realization: I'VE been doing the crucifying. Of the Christ within me and within my compadres. I've been accepting the way things are, in me and in society: embracing sleep, darkness, death-in-life. Enough. Time to make things better instead of standing at the foot of the cross with my arms folded.
I guess Easter couldn't have come at a better time...
Best of holidays, my friend..Jim
OSW: Thanks so much for coming back and commenting again. I remember you saying that would be thinking about this, which is exactly what I hope will happen when I publish a Reflection. And I am so glad that this Reflection has gotten you to reflect on lots of things and inspire you to do that. I do appreciate that very much. And I hope my Easter Reflection will be of help to you as well.
Monte
Monte
Monte
Dave
Monte
Had easter with my 83 yr old mom-in-law-to-be-someday-maybe, her brothers, their wives, my girlfriend. Spirt of family, exhuberance, nearly sent me over the edge into shock or something. All those people in one room!
Can't say I felt much of anything except the urge to escape. Self-crucifixion to the max, man! I'm better today though.
When you can't even enjoy a family gathering lke that, due to extreme bearing of the cross, stopping at each point--station ---ha!----along the route to project somebody saying or thinking something unflattering about myself. Always been proficient at that kind of self-torture. Accepted Christ back when I was alone & nobody was around but Him & me & He wasn't that pleased with me, I can tell you...
My 83 yr old friend explained it today to my satifaction. He died and went to Hell andvanquished it. "kind of a blanket forgiveness?" i teased her but she didn't get the irony. Eventually i lost hold of it too. I started to picture it, Hell as a real psychological space we make for ourself, and share with each other...a painbody, as our friend Theodora calls it. Pain of the soul or spirit or psyche or whatever. What Hegel called the beautiful soul, almost there but not quite.
ok, take it slow, Jim...Jim
Monte
I'll give you my take on hell, but it is not everybody's cup of tea. In the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, Jesus mentions how the Rich Man can see and hear what is going on in Abraham's bosom, but he can't be reached.
If there is a hell then my idea is this: We all live for eternity, good folk and bad folk. The separation of the sheep and goats in Matthew 25 does not end with the killing off of the goats where they simply don't exist any more. They go to Hell, whatever that means.
So I think hell is to live for eternity knowing that there is God and relationships that others have, but that the one in hell does not have. Hell is eternal life without God and the relationship to others.
Just my personal take. The next question is can anyone get out of hell? The Bible mostly says no, but I am not so sure. I just don't know. There are several places in the Bible that imply that God eventually gathers ALL to him. But there are more fire and brimstone passages that are very clear that the decisions we make here on earth are important and definitive, not implications.
But the one thing I never do is say that I can place any limits on the grace and love of God. John 3:17, the one after the football 3:16 verse, says to me that God's love is infinite. But that is a very unorthodox reading of that entire pericope.
Monte
God bless you.
Monte