Related posts in this series on Resurrection Faith
Easter Reflection: "Resurrection Faith"
http://open.salon.com/blog/monte_canfield/2009/04/10/easter_reflection_resurrection_faith
Appearances of the Resurrected Christ, Part One
http://open.salon.com/blog/monte_canfield/2009/04/30/appearances_of_the_resurrected_christ_part_one
Appearances of the Resurrected Christ, II
http://open.salon.com/blog/monte_canfield/2009/05/06/appearances_of_the_resurrected_christ_ii
I have told you that I believe that the appearances of the Risen Lord after the resurrection are the easiest way to understand the truth of the resurrection of Jesus.
Yet, we are told in the Bible, in Matthew, that even Jesus' personal appearance before his followers after his resurrection was not enough "proof" for some. Matthew says that, even as the Risen Lord appeared to them on the mountain before he gave them the Great Commission, "some doubted."
For some, then, even personally seeing the Risen Lord was not enough to allow them to believe the truth of the resurrection. I believe that would hold true today. Nothing would be enough "proof" to convince some people.
Even as some would not believe their own eyes, many others did believe. And, the clearest and most striking proof of the resurrection for most people was his personal appearance to them, which is precisely why the Gospel accounts make so much of his appearances.
While most of us are skeptical, like doubting Thomas, most, like Thomas, would believe if Jesus were to appear before them. And, as I pointed out before, it is clear that God knows that "seeing is believing" is true for most people - and therefore there are numerous appearances by the Risen Lord to many people which are recorded in the Bible.
These appearances do not provide proof that would satisfy a scientist, but they do provide the testimony of trustworthy eye witnesses, which is proof enough for some skeptics, but certainly nothing like all skeptics.
I also pointed out to you that, not counting the much later appearance to Paul on the road to Damascus, the stories of the appearances are in the Gospels of Matthew, Luke and John.
I do not include Mark, because there are no resurrection appearances in the original manuscript of Mark; although if you look at your Bible you'll note that the later-added "longer ending" of the Gospel does include appearances. But that ending was clearly not written by the "Mark" that wrote the rest of the Gospel.
And, I noted that, if you read all of the stories about the resurrection carefully you will discover that, like the stories of his crucifixion and death, these accounts differ in detail, one from the other. But there are also far more important and overriding similarities. And it is these similarities that we need to focus on.
While we tend to remember the details of the appearances in the Gospel accounts, primarily because we can grasp the mental picture of events easier than we can grasp an intellectual concept like resurrection, we first learn that there were appearances by the Risen Lord from St. Paul, in First Corinthians 15, which contains the basic kerygma, or proclamation, of the faith, but contains no descriptions of the appearances.
But this proclamation is significant for several reasons. It was written in Christ's own generation and shows clearly that belief in the resurrection was based on verbal stories, not yet written down, but authenticated by still living eye-witnesses to the events of the appearances.
Paul also tells us that the belief of the earliest church is based not upon personal experience, but on their trust that the proclamation is true. It is not based on scientific evidence, but on testimony and then proclamation: in other words, on witness and preaching.
Later, as claims and counter-claims about the truth of the resurrection continued to spring up, and as the eye witnesses began to die, these oral testimonies were written down in the Gospels.
Therefore, as time passed and the Gospels were written down, starting with Mark some 25 years after the appearances, and ending with John, 50 or more years after the appearances, they became much more than a simple statement of the faith such as Paul gave to the Corinthians. That is because they also seek to defend the truths upon which the faith is built against attacks from both within the church and from outside of it.
The Gospel narratives are explanations of the truth of the faith proclaimed by Paul and accepted by the earliest Christian communities. They provide for us, and for all later generations of Christians, explanations by what Christians believe are reliable witnesses that we can use to support our own belief in the truth of the resurrection.
We should be clear, however, that no testimony by any witness from 2000 years ago is likely going to be considered "true" unless we first have taken a "leap of faith" and are willing to believe that the stories in the Bible are true.
Biblical truth may in many cases be seen as metaphorical or even as mythical. Some Biblical truth is clearly meant only for the community for which it was written and not intended to be universal dogma for all time. But in other cases, such as the basic proclamation in First Corinthians 15 1-11, the clear intention of St. Paul is that the resurrection be taken as literal truth.
There are not all that many "essentials" of the faith but that passage certainly is, as are two non-Biblical statements, or creeds, of the Church, the Apostle's and Nicene Creeds, both of which rely heavily on St. Paul's testimony in First Corinthians.
This is occasionally, but not often, a controversial area in Biblical theology so I need to be clear where I stand on this issue of Biblical truth. If all of the Bible is simply myth, metaphor and temporally and spatially contained then there is no need for "faith" because nothing about it is relevant to our daily lives nor does it demand anything of us. We might enjoy it like we would other texts but there would be no requirement that we have to believe what it says. Some people are OK with that.
For them Jesus was nothing more than an itinerant preacher in an obscure little country 2000 years ago. I am well aware that some self styled "Bible experts" think that is all that Jesus was, which is certainly their privilege.
A handful of those people teach in Christian seminaries. Mostly they don't actually "teach" much; they write books, controversial books that make them a lot of money and bring a certain notoriety to themselves and their institutions. But they are also forfeiting the right to call themselves orthodox Christians.
So, for the purposes of these discussions, I will continue to assume that the resurrection is true in fact. That assumption comes from first having faith and then studying this event in depth within the Biblical and extra-Biblical witness of the Church.
This way of study is orthodox and traditional and follows the footsteps of Augustine, Anselm, Aquinas, Kempis, Hus, Luther, Arminius, Kierkegaard, Schleiermacher, Barth, Lewis, and both Niebuhrs. Those are some of my teachers, and if my understanding is wrong, then so is theirs.
Interestingly, the first Gospel written, by Mark, contains no description of the resurrection appearances at all. The Gospel as written by the "Mark" who wrote the rest of Mark's Gospel ends with verse 8, as follows:
Mark 16: 1 When the sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. 2 And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb. 3 They had been saying to one another, "Who will roll away the stone for us from the entrance to the tomb?" 4 When they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had already been rolled back. 5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man, dressed in a white robe, sitting on the right side; and they were alarmed. 6 But he said to them, "Do not be alarmed; you are looking for Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He has been raised; he is not here. Look, there is the place they laid him. 7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going ahead of you to Galilee; there you will see him, just as he told you." 8 So they went out and fled from the tomb, for terror and amazement had seized them; and they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.
Later writers added first a shorter ending and then a later ending which does have resurrection appearances. Both endings appear in most modern Bibles.
These later redactors likely did this because not only does verse 8 end on a preposition which was possible in Greek writing but not common, but also because it is obvious that eventually the women had to have told someone else Mark would have not been able to write what they heard and did.
But for the purposes of this series I would like to stick with the original writer's words and see why he might have decided to end his Gospel as he did. Some other time we can speculate whether some ending was torn off the original scroll or whether or not we should accept the other endings as "Gospel."
More to the point for our purposes, if Mark does end at verse 8 and therefore has no resurrection appearances, why bother with it in this series? Bothering with this Gospel then may seem strange. But it is one of those cases of the "null curriculum" I mentioned last time. We can, in this case, learn much by what is not said.
Mark's Gospel dealing with the resurrection is little more than a repetition of the earliest kerygma, proclamation, placed within the story of the empty tomb.
Since the empty tomb proves nothing, other than that the body was missing, it is in no way "proof" of the resurrection, in spite of the thousands of well-meaning attempts by preachers to make us think that it is. But it isn't.
And that is why the later Gospel writers, particularly Matthew and John, recognized the weakness of the empty tomb argument, and sought to strengthen it by placing "guards" at the tomb, and, of course, by supplying evidence of the appearances, as did the writer of the longer ending of Mark.
The proclamation of the angel, that Jesus is not in the tomb, that he has been raised, and is going ahead of Peter and the disciples to Galilee, where they will see him, is, of course, a divine explanation of the meaning of the empty tomb. And, for some that is "proof" enough.
Obviously, for the women to whom the angel spoke it was only enough to terrify them, for Mark tells us that they did not obey the angel, but rather fled from the tomb in terror and amazement, and told no one! And, interestingly, on that strange note, Mark ends his Gospel!
But it is not so strange when we think about it. We really need to focus on what the purpose of Mark's entire Gospel was, and how he repeatedly, urgently and consistently pushed this one purpose throughout the entire book.
Mark, much more than any of the other Gospel writers, from the very beginning of his Gospel, insisted on the need for each individual reader to make his or her own decision about who Jesus is. And that decision is to be a decision of faith, not of empirical knowledge.
The very heart of the Gospel of Mark is found in the question Jesus asks, exactly in the middle of his Gospel, in the eighth chapter, "But you, who do you say that I am?" If you recall, Peter gets it right for a brief moment, only to immediately misunderstand Jesus' statement that he must suffer and die, and, after three days, rise again.
And, recalling Mark's Gospel as a whole, we must remember that all of the disciples desert him in his darkest hour. The question for us from Mark is, "Will we have faith without evidence?" Or will we, as constantly pointed out by Mark, be like the Pharisees and Jesus' own disciples, demanding signs and wonders which might lead us to believe?
Mark's Gospel, then, is not for the faint of heart, or for the reader who demands proof of anything in order to have faith. He would have us look at the information that he provides in his Gospel and decide without even the comfort of human testimony about seeing the Risen Christ.
No testimony is allowed by Mark other than the words of Jesus Himself. Even at the end, Mark demands that we have faith based on no more than the word of Jesus before he was crucified and that of an angel after he was risen.
If you think about it even for a moment, perhaps that should be enough, provided we already believe that Jesus is who he has said he is all along. But, obviously, it was and is not enough for many people. And the later writers, Matthew, Luke and John, provide far more "proof" than Mark.
Mark, then, lays the groundwork, via the statement of the angel in the empty tomb, for the later narratives of the other three writers, which will include specific descriptions of and by eye witnesses to the appearances of the Risen Lord.
In particular, the angel's declaration that the Risen Christ is "going ahead of you to Galilee" sets the stage for the later Gospel writers, who will tell us "what happened" after Mark's gospel ends.
I have always found it fascinating to speculate about what might have happened to Christianity if all the Church had to offer to people was Paul's proclamation at the beginning of Chapter 15 of First Corinthians and Mark's original gospel that ends with Chapter 16, Verse 8.
We would not have even the details that later writers gave to the ending of Mark. We would not have the details of the appearances in Mathew, Luke or John. What we would have would be the simple proclamations of Jesus himself and of Paul and Mark.
I think that in the modern cynical world people may well have a much harder time coming to belief, to making that "leap of faith" necessary to then study and learn about God's redemptive love in Jesus, the Christ.
Next week we will look at the resurrection appearances in the Gospel according to St. Matthew.
In the meantime, contemplate your own faith. If you, for instance, were living in Mark's community and had available to you only the statements of Jesus while he was ministering among us on this earth, the proclamation of St. Paul in First Corinthians, and the brief statement of the angel in the empty tomb, what would you believe about the resurrection?
Mark felt that we should believe based upon only that indirect evidence and the statements of Jesus that he provides in his short Gospel. Could you?
May God bless each of you.
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Comments
BBE: Appreciate all the support. Always.
Monte
As much as some insist otherwise, these accounts prove nothing other than that those who wrote them believed them (or so we certainly hope). Today you will find people who believe just as earnestly that Benny Hinn makes people swoon by waving his coat at them or that Joel Osteen can help make you rich because that's what a loving God wants for you.
Please understand, I'm not arguing that it didn't happen. But if Jesus was in fact dead, his resurrection would defy all known physical laws. But belief is not subject to physical laws, and faith by definition does not require proof.
Those, like Lee Strobel (The Case for Christ), who claim to "prove" that Jesus was who and what the gospels claim are engaging in sophistry, and they do not comprehend that if they could indeed prove what they claim, they would have no need of faith. As Paul Tillich rightly points out "Doubt is not the opposite of faith; it is an element of faith."
I have tried to move my faith beyond questions of virgin birth, divinity and resurrection because for me they are not important. Nor do I read in Jesus' teachings much respect for the dogma of his time. I stand with him in that I don't much care what a man believes as long as it helps him to treat others as he would want to be treated. All else is posturing for the crowd.
I find it repellent that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross has somehow been turned into a multi-level-marketing scheme that promises McMansions in Heaven. The idea of gaining a future reward or avoiding present or future punishment is of itself evil, selfish and antithetical to the teachings of Jesus, whose views on that can be summed up simply with the old adage "virtue is its own reward".
As James rightly observed, "You shall know them by their fruits." I am also reminded of an observation by one of the Native American grandfathers: "What manner of men are these Europeans that they must fear their God in order to do good?"
I do not fear God, or at least I do not fear God is angered by mere ideas. Granted, some see such ideas as these as heresy, but I am content to let God be the judge, and thank God that I live in a time and place that God and not The Church judges men's ideas.
I won't go into any paragraph by paragraph reply to your comments. There is no need an your comments will stand for others to read.
I agree with much of what you say. What I am impressed by is that you are working your spiritual journey and it is moving you to a place where you are increasingly comfortable.
I wish that more people would do that. I am sure that you have found, as I have, that we all grow and change, hopefully for the better, and the things that I might have been sure of at one time may now be things I no longer feel strongly about or have rejected altogether.
I have always been one who has struggled with my faith in the details and occasionally in a more general way. I used to preach about that struggle a lot and was appalled at how many of my flock thought it was terrible that I didn't have everything already neatly figured out. I have often prayed that wonderful prayer, "i believe. Help my unbelief."
As I get older I find that my faith comforts me more than it did before and I don't stew over my doubts hardly at all. I figure that God will let me know what I need and knows that even when angry with him I never turn away but rather toward.
Doubt is endemic to the human condition. The ones who scare me are the ones who claim to have never doubted and never doubt now. If you doubt the chances are you are simply growing again and searching. Tillich is right.
I have no patience for the purveyors of prosperity preaching or other sham religious prophets who prey on the weak and turn Christianity into a mockery. Unfortunately those types of self righteous zealots have been in ascendancy for a long time in this country. They support a kind of Christianity and worship a God I know nothing of.
So thanks for your comments and I wish you the very best in your continued spiritual quest.
Peace,
Monte
I was getting a little bit uncomfortable reading your original post--wherein you state that if people do not believe as you do, they, of course, can't actually call themselves Christian. Oh, I have heard so much of that lately! And also, I can't call myself American either, I'm a traitor, because I never, ever honked my horn to support the war, from the same people. From these people (blasphemy follows) one would have thought that GWB was the second coming!
But really, after Tom's thoughtful post and your reply, I decided I had read you too harshly. I love this line in your reply to him:
"They support a kind of Christianity and worship a God I know nothing of."
Thank you. I have been starting to think that I grew up in a cult (the United Methodist Church!) where our ministers would help us with interpretation of the bible, where their training and scholarship would help us see what the meaning of certain passages was in their historical setting, which might be a different meaning than modern people would be likely to ascribe to them. And to see that some of the recorded events could be akin to parables, even if they were not specifically identified as such, with truths we could take away from them, even if we had some skepticism about the events actually occurring exactly as (verbally passed down, written long after the fact, and translated) written.
I have begun going to church again, to my husband's church, full of fine people who are truly trying to find their way in faith and life. But there are some bible literalists (terrorists) there, and I try not to engage them in conversation, because the phrase "god-breathed" sounds and feels medieval and kind of silly to me. It seems like a desperate attempt to rationalize something they have decided to believe, and that if they can't believe that every single word is literally true, then there is nothing to faith.
This is too long, I'm sorry, but thanks for a thought-provoking post.
I don't like the way you pooh-pooh mythology. Here's what a myth is to me: a story. A human retelling of an event. A true event. Say, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. A story, however, which somehow abolishes time....do you see what i am saying? Myth does to time what metaphor does to space...
Example: metaphor: "i am the vine..." Well, look now, Sir, thou aint a vine, yre a man...but what the metaphor does is...um...interchange the two, right? Abolishes the space...
Now, myth abolishes time. It says not: "This happened a long time ago", but: "This is happening now...". Where? Well, here...and there...but now...
Christ was resurrected...ok...but it's an ongoing thing, yes? Isn't that a myth, in the proper, um, "grown up" definition?
Well, probably arguing about nothing here...Yes...Mark is a tough one. I got a wacky theory...Maybe the Christ Event was so...new...so...still vibrating in the Air at the time that Mark took the whole thing as pretty apparent..."if thou hast eyes to see, open em & look at what's happening"...then, as time went by, and the Word spread beyond "Ground Zero", to the provinces, to men who weren't around or even born, words...words...wrapped themselves around the raw existential reality of the World just after the ....Christ event...
Make any sense?...hm ..Jim
Second, is there any rhyme or reason for the actual order of the gospels as they appear in the Bible? (I may have missed this.) In this case, I'm wondering about the relative weight given each by the early scholars.
Third, I think that the mindset that grew out of the industrialization of the Western world plays a not-insignificant part in the problems people have with the gospels. Either that, or you can blame (as I frequently do) the acceptance of Aristotle's empirical methodology as the basis for everything -- including faith.
Anyway, rated for making my brain smoke on a Thursday morning.
The twin pillars of the faith are, in my view -- and the view of many others -- pacifism and communism. I can't tell you how many Christians I know have never even had that idea posed to them and consider that idea blasphemy. I don't see how a fair reading of the text or a knowledge of the actions of the early Christians, who called themselves Followers of the Way and shared their worldly goods and died by the thousands rather than take up the sword, can lead to any other reasonable conclusion.
But advocating for either will get you thrown out of most churches around here. And as we can see in our infantile and ignorant political discourse, even socialism is considered an evil in "Christian" America. How did Christian America get it so wrong? The church must be held accountable for much of that.
The Gospel of Love is a hard teaching, and 2000 years later most don't truly understand or accept it. It demands the surrender of our selfish desires for the good of others, and that we forgive our enemies. I wish more professing Christians practiced the Gospel of Love, I wish I could practice it, too.
What I am impressed with as I read these comments so far is how much thought this series is in fact provoking. And I love how much you all are grasping and understanding what I am writing.
It is much harder to write about subjects like this one in shorter, clear understandable English than it is to write about it using insider theological jargon that includes assumptions about meaning already agreed upon in the scholarly community. Frankly, I grew to find those kinds of papers, of which I have written many, to be ultimately dull and boring.
I think that the real challenge of Biblical theology is to write it for people who want or need to hear the results of my study, not to read the big words and concepts that I learned. And it is gratifying when I can do that, or even just try to do it.
Where there is disagreement or questioning in your comments, those are understandable, and in at least one case you point out something I was wrong about - my sloppy language was not what I wanted to say, and I later corrected it thanks to Mike Rodger's question in an earlier post. But my original words did their damage and I will explain that in my later individual replies.
I see a couple of places in this piece where I have provoked questions because I short changed a couple of ideas that I chose not to define in an attempt to keep this a bit, but not much, shorter than War and Peace. I will cover those also in my individual replies.
So, bear with me and I will address your comments as quickly as I can find time, and if I miss something that you think is important, just holler and I will take another shot at it. Please keep in mind that there will be things that are still a mystery and which both you and I will have to make our own decisions about without anything like perfect knowledge. We just have to do the best we can with what we do have to work with.
Thanks so much.
Monte
I like the fact that you dismiss theories about the resurrection that relegate this event to the "metaphorical or even as mythical". Thank you for standing up for the simple fact of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, an event for which we have excellent historical evidence.
Rated and thank you for sharing your knowledge and insight.
rated
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Hello again, screamin mama, I can always count on you and your support of these Reflections. That means a lot to me.
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Hi, Regena,
I am glad that you came back in spite of your discomfort. I remember where in that first post I said that if someone did not believe something then their faith was "dead." That sounded very dramatic, but it was wrong. Mike Rodgers pointed that out to me and I changed it to "incomplete." Keep in mind that I come at the faith from a very orthodox point of view. And while there are very few "essentials" in orthodox teaching, and they can be summed up in the Apostles' Creed, I do believe that they are, in fact, essential. You may not believe that.
Each must choose what to believe and nobody can with certainty tell them that they are 'wrong.' The truth is that in my own spiritual journey there have been parts of the essentials of the faith that I have doubted. That was when I was trying to read, study and think my way to the faith rather than feel it. Regardless, at that point in my personal journey I questioned the orthodox position and would have been very upset had anyone told me that my faith was "dead" or that I could not call myself "Christian."
To be clear, I do think that a person's faith is "incomplete" if they do not believe certain essentials of the faith. But if that person does not think his or her faith is incomplete, and is comfortable with where he/she is on their individual journey, I respect that. I always try to remember to tell people what I believe. But I surely work hard at also telling them that what they believe is up to them. So I just dropped the ball on that one.
If the Methodist Church is a cult it is the kind of cult that more people should belong to. Wesley was no fool and that denomination has grown to be a respected and respectful home to many good Christians. What you were taught there sounds very much like what I have been taught.
As to your husband's church, there are self righteous individuals in every denomination, although they abound in some and are rare in others. I just avoid them, which is what you seem to be doing.
I am not one who rails against long comments or long replies to comments. There are, I know, some OS guardians of "proper" blog etiquette who argue for short comments, but I don't share their belief. So thanks for your thoughtful comments.
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Thanks, Dusty. Glad that you learned something new. And even happier that you have now "much to think about." All of these issues are not intended to be the end of our personal reflections, only the beginning. You understand that very well.
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Hi, Jim, I am sorry that you think I "pooh-pooh" mythology. I don't. Myth can be real in the sense that the early, first 11, chapters of Genesis are myth, but real. Those chapters are not unreal or untrue, but simply are essentially a poetical way of expressing something that is almost beyond the ability of words to describe. So, to me, they are "real" but, for instance, the story in the Garden is not literal either. It is "real" but not literally true. At least in my eyes it is not literally true.
Earlier in this series I described what I think happened at the resurrection and why it cannot be "proven." That is a difficult concept, granted, but it is what I and many others who have studied it believe. This is long but I know no other way to say what I believe in a shorter compas.
I wrote: "And finally, - and this is the most important of all, and also the most difficult to understand, so read this carefully: that the resurrection occurred at the intersection of time, or history, as we know it and eternity. As such it is what the Church calls an "eschatological event;" meaning that it is an event signaling the "last days." We are living in a period between the beginning of the last days, signified by the coming of God in Christ, and the culmination of the last days at the second coming of Christ. We live in what is known in the Church as the "in-between" time; the time of "already" - meaning the breaking in of the Kingdom of God with the coming of Jesus - and "not yet" - meaning the final triumph of the Kingdom of God when Christ comes again. Just as Jesus left eternity and entered the time and space of creation at His conception, so too, after his resurrection and the appearances he left time and space as we know it and returned to eternity. That is the main reason we can't "prove" the resurrection. It was an event that moved beyond history as we know it. Certain aspects surrounding the resurrection have been made available to our consciousness by God, in particular the appearances of the Risen Lord. But, by definition, the very act of resurrection itself lies beyond human understanding. It simply does not fit what we know about how things work."
I think that you struggled with that idea which allows for a literally raising of Jesus when I first wrote it, so we may actually just disagree on this one. In one sense it is true that Jesus is crucified every day and is risen every day, to the extent that any "event" in history is not constrained by time or space in the eyes of God. Since God created time and space God dwells outside of it and can enter and leave it at will. But that is pretty esoteric stuff which neither of us has a ghost of a chance of proving. If you are comfortable with your idea of what the resurrection means to you, I have no other tools to convince you otherwise. But I am offering you this option for your ruminations as an alternative way to view it. And I do consider this option "grown up." Maybe more grown up than many. ;-)
One thing we do agree on and that I like your picking up on is the essential raw reality of Mark's gospel. It is the less elegant and most "real" of all the Gospels precisely for what you say. It was too soon to wrap a lot of words of explanation and nuance and apologetics into what he wrote. So in one sense it is the most pure of the Gospels and I love it for that.
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Hi, again, Boanerges1. Always good to have you reading these. I agree that eyewitness accounts always disagree in the details. That needs to be kept in mind when discussing the eye witness accounts of the resurrection appearances.
There is some rhyme about the order that the books called the Gospels appear in the Bible, but only bad reason. The earliest scholars who were putting together the books that we now call the New Testament believed that Matthew was first written and that Mark was a shorter summary of Matthew since almost all the verses in Mark are also found in Matthew. Later critical scholarship proves, in a lot of ways too detailed to get into here, but very conclusively, that Mark was written first and that Matthew elaborated on Mark. Thus Matthew comes before Mark in the Bible. Luke says that he is writing to set the record straight so from the beginning it was thought that Luke was written about the same time or shortly after Matthew. And it was common belief that the author of John was an exiled priest writing to his flock from Patmos and he lived much later than the others so his Gospel was last. Funny thing about that is that John really was written later but was not likely not written by the John that they thought wrote it. Thus, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Some truth, some error in the order.
I do believe that the modern mind set which places almost complete trust in "facts" as defined by science, coupled by the inordinately strong acceptance of Greek philosophy and rhetorical forms of argument by the Church in the early days of the Roman Empire combine together to make it hard to accept what Christian call "truths" as being "the truth." And there is nothing to bridge that gap that I see on the horizon, although, God knows, many, many try.
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Hi, Faith, glad to have you back here. I know that you struggle with what to think about the resurrection. I am glad that these reflections are giving you some food for thought. I am just happy that you are continuing on your spiritual journey and not turning away from it. Thanks for reading and commenting.
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Hello again, Tom. I am glad that you came back and read my reply. I can see that you would get some moaning and groaning about saying that the twin pillars of the faith are pacifism and communism. Whether they are "the" twin pillars or two important pillars we might argue about, but certainly they are, indeed, pillars of the faith.
Some of the dickering over whether they are pillars of the faith is that the two words carry a lot of modern baggage because of what they have come to mean to the conservative evangelical Christian community in this country. And that community sees neither of those things as good. When patriotism and Christianity get all rolled up together into what amounts to a civil religion and the proponents of that civil religion deny that they are confusing God and country, that is what you get. To my mind not a pretty picture and one that is a disservice to both Christianity and the nation. But, hey, that is what we have had to live with since Reagan.
The irony is that before the Moral Majority came along the evangelical part of Christianity abhorred even the idea of getting involved with the nation because it was stateism in Europe that was the birthing room of the free church, the anabaptist and other movements who wanted nothing to do with state sponsored religion, and paid with their lives for that desire. So over the past 30 plus years the evangelical movement has turned 180 degrees. And not for the better.
Would that we all could practice the Gospel of Love all the time. Unfortunately we are all sinners and can't, but it is always worth getting back on that track and doing our best to follow it. Ultimately for all of us it is truly The Way.
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Hi, Dave. I knew you went to cemetery too. Both of us have been there many times since. ;-)
I consider the resurrection to be both fact and truth. I can see how others have a hard time with that and I understand that. For decades I had a hard time with it too. I did not go to seminary until I was 51 so I know what it is to struggle with faith from my years as a studious lay person in the church. I decided long ago that I would share my faith with others, try my best to make it clear and understandable to them, and let them decide for themselves what they believe. Pastors wield incredible power. There are many who will just believe by rote whatever the pastor tells them. Too many pastors abuse that power, which is a gift of grace and should not be abused, by insisting that the words that come out of their mouths are always God's words. Hopefully they are. But too often they are not. I try hard to remember that.
======================================
Hey, Blue. I am not sure that I want to start talking about Revelation because it would take the rest of my life to try to explain it, and some of that time would be trying to explain it to me. I think Tom's response to you is just about spot on to what I think would happen. I always tell those who worry about the second coming that the odds are about infinite that we will die before that happens so maybe we should spend more time worrying about what good we can do while we are here and let God worry about when Jesus comes back. To me Jesus is here now anyway so I never worry about it.
======================
Thanks, John. What you say means more to me than I can express.
===========================
Tom: spot on.
==============================
Thanks again, everybody. Hope I didn't miss anybody. If I did please shout it out. I tried not to.
Monte
Can't tell you how many medical words I don't know. Because of my rare med problems I have learned about auto immune diseases, leukocytoclastic vasculitis, Renaud's phenomena, erythromelalgia and small fiber neuropathy, all of which I have simultaneously in my feet. I just call it an incurable mess. ;-)
Monte
This was a very in-depth and informative piece, Monte. Thank you for taking the time to write this! I also appreciate the humility with which you present things from an honest and thoughtful perspective.
I totally agree with you where you say, “I think that the real challenge of Biblical theology is to write it for people who want or need to hear the results of my study, not to read the big words and concepts that I learned. And it is gratifying when I can do that, or even just try to do it.”
I thank you for working hard to share your scholarly insights in a language that resonates with the people.
I also found myself shouting “AMEN” when I read your words, “…there will be things that are still a mystery and which both you and I will have to make our own decisions about without anything like perfect knowledge. We just have to do the best we can with what we do have to work with.”
Well said sir!
If it is not almost immediately knowable and, hopefully, quantifiable, then it is assumed to be unimportant, or at least, not worthy of much serious effort to spend with it. I find that sad. It is the same mindset that walks in the park under the trees with an IPod on and a cell phone on ready to intercept even more noise and chatter in lieu of hearing the sounds -- and especially the silence of nature. There is mystery there. Or one who is dragged off to an art museum and spend the time trying to memorize all the information about the artists, and never spends more than a few seconds trying to absorb the paintings. And yet it is in the painting itself, not in reading about it, where its mystery of its beauty is to be found, or, better, not found but appreciated.
Thanks again for your comments.
Monte
I find the counterfactual, what would I have required for belief at the time of Christ, to be imponderable. But you have perfectly captured for mewhat is so great about The Gospel of Mark:
"No testimony is allowed by Mark other than the words of Jesus Himself. Even at the end, Mark demands that we have faith based on no more than the word of Jesus before he was crucified and that of an angel after he was risen.
If you think about it even for a moment, perhaps that should be enough, provided we already believe that Jesus is who he has said he is all along. But, obviously, it was and is not enough for many people. And the later writers, Matthew, Luke and John, provide far more "proof" than Mark."
If you doubted the word of Chist before his death, could you not find reasons to doubt any additional second-hand testimony thereafter? And if you credited Christ's word beforehand, and credited on the only possible grounds for doing so, that He is in fact the Son of God, what need would you have for additional testimony from mere mortals?
"If you doubted the word of Chist before his death, could you not find reasons to doubt any additional second-hand testimony thereafter? And if you credited Christ's word beforehand, and credited on the only possible grounds for doing so, that He is in fact the Son of God, what need would you have for additional testimony from mere mortals?"
Taking the first one, of course if you doubted Jesus' word before his death, as we are told that all of his disciples did except for small glimpses here and there, like when directly questioned in Chapter 8 of Mark only to immediately not be able to fathom what Jesus meant about "and rise again in three days", or the wonder of the Transfiguration only to argue immediately among themselves as to who was the greatest, then you might indeed doubt second hand witnessing.
But the stories we get out of the Gospels is that the disciples finally figured out who Jesus was only after the resurrection during the appearances. Even so, some, who are not identified, did doubt. In these cases then these were first hand witness to the resurrected Christ who then testified that they had seen the Risen Lord and that testimony was handed down orally to believers like Paul who passed it on to others who chose to believe based on that second hand testimony with no details. Those believers had never even met Jesus, yet they believed.
Later, those oral testimonies were gathered in the Gospels, sans in Mark, for the edification of, again, those who had never seen Jesus, and who were a generation or two removed from him.
Mark is arguing as you do that the appearances are not needed if you will simply believe what Jesus said. But the truth is that many believers have used those now written testimonies to bolster their own faith. There are those who want to believe who therefore use the eye witness testimony in their faith journeys.
I too find it a ponderous way to come to faith, but it is the most common one. And were it not effective you would not have seen the embellishments of Matthew, Luke and John take hold in the Christian communities.
The question remains, to put yours another way, "If you can't believe what Jesus said how can believing Paul or the Gospel writers be of any help?" To me the answer is that there are many ways to get to the same place and some will believe outright and others will take every possible way, and doubt every possible doubt, before finally making a decision to take a leap of faith or to simply deny that Jesus is the Son of God.
Many people will simply believe testimony from numerous witnesses that supports where they want to get. It is helpful to them to know that others saw the actual Risen Christ.
In my own ministry I have had many people tell me that the testimony of those who saw the resurrected Christ was the thing that most convinced them of the truth of the resurrection. I cannot tell you why that is so effective, only that every study I have ever read concludes that two things, proclamation and witnessing, were the key to faith in the early church and continue to be.
My own position continues to be that of Anselm, that faith comes first and understanding comes second. Apparently a lot of people do not get to faith that way. All I know is that I tried to get there by study, reading the accounts of the witnesses, etc. and could not get there until I made that Kierkegaardian "leap of faith." But, hey, that is just me. ;-)
Monte
i dont know how i feel about it all. i know i pray all the time, but i pray right to god, and sometimes mary. rarely jesus. but i can't see how any joe blow could have had these myths grow up around him and survive for 2000 years.
it is very hard to reconcile, rationally. but that is the whole premise of faith, as you say.
thanks for this.
Thanks for reading and commenting. Much appreciated.
Monte
There are several places where you can derive the idea of predestination, Act 4:24; 1 Cor. 2:7; Rom. 8:29-30. Eph. 1-5 & 11, etc. Sometimes the same word (proorizo) is translated "fore-ordained." When it it translated as fore-ordained that brings other citations in play that suggest ideas like purpose, determine, and choose. The context of the term within the text affects its meaning too. Paul is the one who most uses it in the New Testament.
The modern and often misunderstood use of the term is only one part of its meaning: the "election of believers." If, in fact, however, God has some sort of "plan" for the universe and for us, which seems clear from the Bible, then everything is predestined in its broadest metaphysical sense. Free will, which is a gift from God, can be, of course, exercised, which changes the dynamic of the pre-ordination or predestination of the cosmos, but not the direction or the ultimate goal. Divine providence is said to be the guide to insure that while we play about on the deck of the Titanic, or Love Boat, take your pick, God's plan will out in the end. Once we are at the point of viewing predestination as ubiquitous in the cosmos literally hundreds of citations can be found that deal with the subject.
The rubber hits he road in the New Testament where Jesus, in John's Gospel, speaks of seats on his right and left being "reserved" for those whom the father has prepared. Paul speaks of those whose salvation is called "according to God's purpose" to vocation, justification and glorification. Obviously, salvation is involved when Paul speaks of us being called not according to our works but according to God's purpose and grace. To be saved is to be called.
From there the trail of argument over the meaning of predestination winds from Paul to Augustine, Prosper and Gottschalk, with side trails through Origin and John of Damascus who argued that all people are universally predestined by God but some are derailed by sin and thus do not inherit the Kingdom of God. Aquinas sort of kicked the football forward, allowing for predestination but also arguing that God's love is the cause of goodness in all things, which sort of sounds like everyone is predestined for good, but that is not quite what he meant.
The issue came to a head with John Calvin, one of the principal Reformation leaders. Calvin argued against the universal saving will of God claiming that Christ's atoning death was offered only to the "elect." And he added that those who are not elect are eternally damned through no fault of their own. The Calvinists (Reformed Church) split into two different interpretations of predestination with various "tests" to determine who is elect and who is not, and the rest be damned. I used to know them but I never was much of a fan of Calvin and have blessedly forgotten them. Taken at its core it is a sobering branch of Christianity and I see little joy in it and a great deal of gnashing of teeth wondering if you or I are elect. Oddly, Robert Schuller came out of a Calvinist background and some of the really fine modern theologians are Calvinists. So Calvinism has lost a lot of its sting over the centuries since Calvin.
More moderate and orthodox theologians, of which I am one, generally pay little attention to the idea of election of a chosen few and simply believe that, while God may, in fact, elect those who are to gain admittance to the Kingdom we simply do not know who those folks are. We believe that all those who believe in Jesus are, by definition, elect or saved. Since the Bible is clear, John 3:17, that Jesus came to save the world, all of its people, then God would, at least to my thinking, be very happy to save every soul.
Whether or not God will save all people of all religions or of none is to me an open question. There are places in the Bible where universal salvation is implied, but there are more places where it sounds like salvation is limited to those who profess Jesus Christ. But I will never stand up and say that I know the limits of God's love or the length that God will go to in order to reconcile all humanity to himself. I have a hard enough time figuring out how to interpret the Bible for Christians.
But my God is a mighty big and welcoming God so I would not be surprised to find some folks from other faiths standing at the Golden Gates waiting in line with me to have our tickets punched. It would not surprise me at all.
Monte
God bless,
Monte
Lovely post, Monte.
thank you, dugg and thumbed
That last post of yours about police abuse is almost so insane that it is not to be believed. That girl needs to sue them big time.
Monte
Forebear. I got too windy.
You inspired old memory.
Monte reminds me of this lovable old grey-hair minister who visited me in the Army hospital.
He parted his hair straight
and right down the middle.
The visitations from the ordained minister was post-war. The Horror of eye-witnessing war's carnage had me in despair. He attended the Methodist bible schools as a youngster, and then the scholarly-seeker, and spiritual aspirant, glued those feather-bird-wings on his luggage. He went off to Concordia?... He wore John Lennon look-alike, reading spectacles, played the guitar, and had a silly grin. Then, Graham Hammon (dead now) convinced the partner, a magnificent brownie-baker friendly 'wimmin' ... which he called his dear 'helpmeet' ... Guess what? He lugged her Northeast .
He studied at The Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary? It's near Harvard? I may spiel bad? He's departed. Old dead Graham Hammond is now, everywhere? He's in a ghetto, a sparrow, Afghanistan, Iran, the White House, the outhouse, Ohio, NYC, barns, winos, widows, rural Clear Spring, dogs that are muzzled in a puppy kennel, Harlem, cathouses, barrooms, bagels, creamed cheese, goats,
and who knows where else? Hell? Oceans? Sky? The Bowel of the inner, those dark places,
In the
depths of this Earth?
look at the Celestial?
who can dare Know?
Back to Earth ...
His tattooed wife would bake the best brownies on Earth (Michelle Ferguson, the friendly tease poet needs to try a few brownies? She may chew them slowly, bite them brownies 33- times before she ever swallows, and sip with raw moo cow milk? Take some to the Jungian 'shrink' and tinkle in a shoe? huh Ya have to read dear Michele)
I never asked the ministers wonderful spouse, and She was one of the kindest women married to a rural preacher that I ever have had the pleasure to know~
I should have inquired? What in the hell is the good ingredients in the chewy cookies? What in heaven's earth? What did that tattooed Lady pour-forth therefore? What? Yummy. O, so Wonderful, and moist, delicious, mmmm brownie cookies. Who cares? They were tasty. It was a Holy Spirit foodies.
The birds outside just began singing coo coo, and those singsong feathered creatures are gentle-calm, winged 'word' sound tunes. Virgil mentions this:`IF the human being can't hear the birds, the distracted person is in hell. It's figurative. It's a state of a Mind.
The swallows have entered the barns. Hesiod wrote: It's time to harness the ox, and smell the fresh fertile Earth. Oh good. goo goo.
Today, I promised I'd be on time to take my Granddaughter to the local preschool.
Mary Montessori had something to say about education. I ramble on and on. apology.
Monte~~I enjoy these Synoptic Bible School classes. I may differ on a small detail. But, you don't take a black bible from being tucked under a smelly armpit, and try to jam. You may teach, and folk can chew the cud. It will not hurt a Open Mind. Please no cut off diverse dialogue. No cut male foreskin. Poor Bashful Bash`she`bah. Whoa!
Poor Pathan.
The Pathan?
Pahan is a rural Afghanistan fellow human.
A Pathan is the war victim. Elsewhere too, etc.
The White House sage/idiot? Fool/Sage? Kill?
You understand. Why bomb and kill from a office?
Is Mr. Barack Obama God's sensitive guardian angel?
Michelle (White House) grows lilies, herbs, and bombs?
Her husband Barack Obama has his finger on the bombs.
~
Monte~You. You may look like a gangster and part hair?
You may trap the hopping hare who eats away at a carrot?
You have an impressive BIO resume. You manage and edit?
~
Respectfully,
Ask fellow preachers to read a New Book ref:`William Sloan Coffin?
Read a New book by Juan Cole? Or, a book: `Jane Idleman Smith?
Michael Henderson? Manda Dunsky? Andrew B. Murphy? A bible?
`
-The collected Sermons of William Sloan Coffin: The Riverside Years Volumn 1. 1977 to 1982.
-
Nature? Sheep say bah? Bad guys? Bad boy?
-
-Pens and Swords: How the American Mainstream Media Report The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict - by Marda Dunsky.
-
-No Enemy To Conquer: Forgiveness in an Unforgiving World. - by Michael Henderson.
-
-Engaging The Muslim World. - by Juan Cole.
-
-Muslim, Christians, and the Challenge of Interfaith Dialogue. - by Jane Idleman Smith. (on and on.)
-
There is a New Movie:`Goodbye Solo. Written and directed by Ramin Bahrani. The old Senegalese proverb:
* An elder who dies is like a library that burns.
`
No one s infallible. Not even the bible scriptures.
*
*
?
"The press brings you all the news that fit to print. Seldom does it make an error. It is sacred because it maintains the right of private initiative. It is the watchdog of the home, the church, and he state. For this is above reproach. - Francis Hamlen.
-
Or, do the arrogant know-it-all folks creep on all fours. HUBRIS (not you) Mysterious as your inner self. The mind is a weathervane. Who sells the soul? Francis Hanlen etc.,? Who is the fortune teller?
I read Tom Cordell, respectfully, and he ask? A daily pound ... flesh?
Tom ask:`
... O pound out a 2- cents worth of wisdom? Yes! No? Why target peasants, a honest worker, a former wheat grower farmer who is forced to grow poppies, huh? Why? To cure 'our' own neurosis?
Watch out! Beware! Woes!
Oy, So, we bomb and kill Ya!
Then, later some politico says:
` Sorry. It's not my fault. I did not know. Monte- Whoever. Talk to those in the gutters. Ask the wounded victims of the world. Sandra Day O' Conner wrote a book ref:`Magnificent. Or, something like that, in reference to Nature and Law. Thanks. I got carried away.
Monte-Serious. You bring back to my Memory those fine dear elder couples who visited me when I was in a hospital. I was sick in heart. I was grieving, and so close to death. I hold some personal thoughts deep within. The inner Life cherishes some treasures, Never cast a
lustrous mass of gems.
Pearl before a swine
You aren't the swine
Ya keep proclaiming
Go speak from a barn.
A mountain top. Watch.
Watch those swallow birds.
Birds dip and soar, shadows
I love morn times, birds fly
The bird soar from Ya sight
Then 'um come back to roost
I love the words:` May God Bless you
Heart is to aim pure intentions
Heart is the 'seat' of emotions
Well, reading yr somewhat more polished (than i) response to my comments, i find again we pretty much agree on everything. Just words like a forest of vines (not the good kind!) between us, & we with the blades of our...um,wanna say "pens" but can't...fingers? keyboards?...bad metaphor...
with the blades of our intellects cutting the vines away..."i am a forest of vines" sayeth the lord of obscurant semantics...oh well...this is the way to understanding...yes, i read that passage earlier, about eternity, and loved it...some of yr best writing ever....the subject is way tricky: eternity. But we both have a pretty "grown-up" uunderstanding of it, and mythology, too....
well, hm...we agree....now what....?
ha. Jim
It is the inner peace that allows spirit to grow within us, temper ego and superficial distractions which surround us and grow in our faith.
In my perspective, there is a science of faith, a realness, constant discoveries, openness, willingness to grow in God's love and the Word of the gospels. Whether small bits of evidence and revelations that have existed throughout time or glaring signs, miracles, natural phenomenom and empirical wisdom which has endured since Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven,
we have the opportunity to embrace faith, to be reborn through Christ's love and live a life of gratitude, kindness to others and follow an example Jesus gave to us. Faith can be a reward that we realize both in this life and after we depart this human existence to join our maker in Heaven, where true wisdom and joy abounds.
I do hope that others will take the time to read this comment of yours as it is full of things we have yet to learn as we struggle along the Way.
I guess by now that you know that you and I share similar ideas about what is wrong with the politics of this country and how that politics is either bereft of the knowledge of the ethical-moral compass of God's admonitions to us, or else chooses to ignore them.
Either way nothing that Jesus taught says anything about trading one war for another, giving the bounty of our children and theirs to the bankers and sharks of Wall Street, seeing torture at the highest level of government and deciding that it would be too messy to mess with.
I try to be a pacifist but my anger roils when I see the stupidity. How is this related to my post? All things are related, but most of all for me is that my faith informs my feelings about the abuses of power that we witness year after year, administration after administration, and sadly I think that we are all too often only shifting around the chairs on the deck of the Titanic. The difference is that our Titanic is sinking not because of hitting an iceberg but because we have carved holes in our own hull on purpose.
The God I love seeks love, peace, hope and joy for all peoples. This God, my God, seeks to share the abundant bounty of the earth with all who inhabit it, human and every other species. Were we all, including our leaders, to do the same thing our policies would reflect it. They don't.
Thanks again, Arthur. Welcome here always, you are. (Yoda)
God bless,
Monte
I always enjoy your comments, and miss them when you are not spending much time on OS. They force me to sharpen both my ideas and the way I express them. Sometimes due to both the nature of the blog medium and my desire to speak to, and not over the heads of, my OS family I will shorthand ideas when I explain them.
The problem with that is that I have then not really explained them. And the more difficult the problem the more likely that I poorly explain.
I would not bother to do it at all but I have found a niche here in OS for those people who are hungry for Christian reflection. I have looked with wonder as these reflections have grown in page views from a few tens of hits to well into the hundreds, and in a couple of instances into the thousands. So somebody is reading them, long as they are.
In this series the first drew 500 viewers, the second 650 and this one over 250 in less than 24 hours. I notice that they take time to grow viewers as most wait and save reading them until they can do so undistracted.
So thanks again, I appreciate it.
I wanted to mention that there is an interesting article about a group of people who have been diagnosed with major mental illness who are getting together to own their own decisions about whether to medicate and with what. I will try to see if Newsweek has not posted it to their archives on their web site and if so I will get you the citation so you can read it. I would like to get your thoughts on that whole idea.
God bless,
Monte
Were I as poetic as you are, even when you write prose, I swear that I would be sharing the identical sense of wonder, freedom and security that comes from knowing that God is love and that his love is open to all, each and every moment of our lives.
What bothers me sometimes that I get so busy and so many things lean in upon my time, demanding answers or wanting me to do this or that. And when that happens I sometimes lose that close feeling to God that I need to sustain myself and grow.
I at least feel when I research and write these Reflections that I am toiling in God's vineyards, doing my best to convey to people hungry for a word of hope and faith. When I do that and when I read the comments and can reply to them I feel close to content, and close to God.
I have neglected my own Bible reading. Not study. I study it all the time in order to write these Reflections. But I used to be in the habit of just reading the Bible and pondering its meaning. Every day. I really need to get back to doing that.
Thanks for the wonderful comment.
Peace and love,
Monte
I don't need proof. Thanks.
denese
Monte
This statement is a bit much for me though,
Matthew says that, even as the Risen Lord appeared to them on the mountain before he gave them the Great Commission, "some doubted."
How could anyone doubt the resurrection when Jesus is standing right in front of them? Seems I recall something like, although it was definitely Jesus that made the appearances, He had a different look about him, or something like that. My mind is a bit fuzzy on that and I could very well be mistaken.
That said, I am a believer in things that I see first hand, at least if I've had a good look. I'm a bit skeptical about UFO's, yet if one were to land in my yard, it would be hard for me to still be a skeptic about them. That fact is troubling for me about Thomas. What more "proof" could he possibly need than Christ standing before him?
Jesus must have had something about his appearance that was different because in the graveyard the women thought he was the gardener and even Mary did not recognize him until he said her name. And on the road to Emmaus the two disciples did not recognize him as he was traveling along the road with them. When they invited him in to share dinner with them and he was breaking the bread that act allowed them to recognize him but then we are told that he just vanished.
As to Thomas, remember that he was invited by the Risen Christ to place his fingers into the wounds on Christ's body. But he did not. It was enough that Thomas recognized him by sight for Thomas to believe.
As for the others, whoever they were, on the mountain who "doubted" well, I think that if someone wants to NOT believe something hard enough even today they will simply not believe it. Period. There must have been people there on that mountain that day who didn't believe that Jesus was really dead and thought that they were looking at a revived normal Jesus, and some may well have thought that someone else was made up to look like Jesus.
Remember that the authorities were so worried that the Christians would steal his body and claim that he arose that they even placed Guards at the tomb to prevent that. So many people thought that it would be a hoax if they saw someone after the crucifixion who claimed to be Jesus.
Monte
or call him old squarehead
as did me and my big brother Paul,
who is now ..."dead to me",
as the poppsychologically infected say,
but in reality what i sort of wish is that he'd get cancer or something serious,
so heis bithch wife will call me
instead of being a "tigress"
as a mother & keeping her child, Paul Jr,
away from his grandparents forever
(until mother lay, liverpoisoned, bloated, helpless,
a child looking for a first or last affirmation
before passing from these earthly bonds...
brotherhood....i got issues...so this brotherhood of man shit
is a bit...uncomfy for me...but i get the
psychosymbolism....
yet, monte, tis what hegel called "picture thinking"...."vorstellen"...
in phen of mind he says:
"the transition from religion to philosophy is made necessary.
but by whaat?...by....religion itself....how?
it points beyond itself to a further shape
of consciousness...shape in german is sort of a "mode", a dialectical changeover situation
the germans and those influenced by them,
take as the heart of reality itself...the trouble: where
does it all end? what is the Ultimate Subject here?
welll...God is Ultimate Everything...
thus...per Blake...
abosoulte consciousness is absolute subjectivity yet:
I is the only subject int
the universe, it is the I we must
find to be free....finally?
JME
this is the same subject (small s) that jujst bugged ya onlly 5 min ago...
so....who was this arthur jamesian james emmerling?
(arthur james is a style hard to pinppoint but easy to see when yre cracking up into a splitnter of it
yourself)
many perceptions down the primrose path
we find:
ts elitot, sour frog,
cultivated with a beautiful otherworldly german high thought
(pre nietzsche & post nietzsche but never not nietzschian except for taken too
seriously, as the guy on tv a few days ago did....batll gal in my head along with huylk images...)
hulk+movie character.....he is jekyll, mildmannnered atomic scientist,
becomes angry then is a green freudian id)
update to the 2000s, he's a mega movie star...2 movies, two actors playing scientist, latest = that punky tired guy , that ed nortony guy...
god squared in this this is the thing...
or god multiplied in many godmodes , because
god is everything,
thus god is modal,
that is shown,
and was known by augustine & then taken for granted by
fat st thomas, in any way a sexualized man? make a movie re st thomas, with monte as st thomas...)
later on.......you old squarehead, good to have you back,
dad,
i surre missed talkin to a big archie bunker type like you...
artchie daad liked but scolded
for his manners....dad liked the meathead...
he was a meathead made good by World War...
mother was a sheltered Conant of the Old Conant new englnd family.
her mother was rena conant, old latemarrying working woman type (a principal of an elementary school before she had her
breakdown in 1927 upon having little doomed eleanor, my mother...
happy birthday, dad, the real dad, or the one my dad wore as a mask,
george...bye...hello...welcome home...resurrection of the dead begins
with bringing them
to mind & into heart.....james
1. The Christ...to full self-recognition in the personhood of Jesus of Nazareth....
2. The cultural...um....circumstances....which, being somewhat loosely universalized, are basically primordial, but not quite. The Jews werent as far advanced in being so illiterate and stupid and apathetic as we are 2000 yrs later...
3. Jesus dies. He Comes ack, proves that Death is conquered...
4. A buncha men, 2000 yrs later, stand out:
a.augustine, old fool in love with love, gets all busy and strict and tolerant but dualistic on us..
5. It aint his fault . The Culture is Greek and Roman and Jewish. The Greeek rises up once in a while in a Dionysian orgy followed by an Appollonian recovery time...
6.The Romans build and rule from abouve and....they defend....thats what they are for....or what else?...our Defense, their battalions everywhere..
7. We are always in Roman times, usually a face in the Cooliseum...
8. The Jew gets touchy and sex-weird and we all taske a look at theat pesky problem..
9. some rich europeans try new ways of thinking..
10. Flesh riot burst out...the devil raises his lusty pan face...the great god Pan , also is our Greek heritage...
11. Germans cme along and fuck up the whole thing.....the universal Church....oh well, sorry, pope benedict, you aint tellin us ALL what to do cuz some germans said, ach, who needs ya, ya bum, ya nasty ass italian? germans tried to get italy into their little Reich for many many yrs. til the damn arabs anyway. damn mohommedians.
12.plunder em...
13. piss em off
14. shove our rich white american ass in their humngry bored faces..
15. Write scholarly articles about the concept of the living Christ.
It's al aabout Spirt, which is: first, above the Flesh. But we are only now revelling in the Flesh after an uptight 8 yrs....
bombs under our beds???! oh, make hollywood movies about those silly muslims, and...
ha.catholics too. see dan brown's classic literary masterpiece angels and edemons...jesus got laid...ha..what? oh, i see...it was an issue of
"companion"...jesus, mary and Pan...
Pan!Pandora.
box open now....you know what "box".....
they squirm for orgasm, this grisly tangle of flesh in time and Space....
Infinite time, infinite space...
James
I have told you and others many times of the gargantuan struggles that I had trying to think my way to faith when I had no faith. I was convinced that faith would be found in the next book, the next guru at whose feet I worshiped and often confused him or her with my ultimate goal, but then realized I was putting my soul in the hands of man.
So then I tried more education, because surely then I would find faith in all the world's knowledge packaged neatly into courses I could, and did, ace. And in the pride of all those straight As and the kudos that came with them I confused me with faith, but my better angels told me that I was not really the Other (Otto) and so with degrees hung all around the house I still had no faith.
So I read deeper into all those Germans, particularly Barth but a dozen more. And I found faith everywhere, even in places where they had denied it, like in Bultmann, hiding out in a German seminary, teaching what he thought was not faith; but even he, as I read between the lines he wrote, had the faith I was looking for. But still I didn't.
I was beginning to get a glimpse of what my faith could look like but it was just out of my grasp because none of these great German theologians could explain where their faith came from. Still I was feeling like faith, finally, was possible.
So it was on to Schleiermacher where at least the idea of the need for piety finally took form in me. That was finally something that I could understand, and eventually practice in my own stumbling way.
From there it was on to Kierkegaard, and the words flew off the page as I read, for here was an existentialist who understood what I had never been told, but always knew and regretted because there was no way for me to will what he said: take a leap of faith. This existentialist understood what was needed, a leap, a blind jumping into the essence of life, a trust beyond the existential into something unknown. Mystery. The mystery of the Other, Otto again speaking to me from the grave.
And this existential reminded me of old St. Anselm, speaking not this time about the ontological proof of God, which is no proof at all, but about theology, religion and its relationship to faith. Something far simple than his ontological non-proof. He said simply that religion, that theology is "faith seeking understanding."
That opened me to see that all those years I had it wrong because I was seeking faith in learning, in trying to understand. But Anselm said that was backwards. First have faith and then we seek understanding. It started to come together in my mind, but since I could not will it to be, I felt lost.
So none of these continental thinkers got me there. But there was one from Britain, one who came to faith after years of his own struggles, one who first gained fame and noteriety in English Literature, not theology, a simple man with a complicated mind who could make the complex sound clear and simple to folks like you and me.
And this man was willing to admit his own struggle from atheist to believer. He spoke of it openly and happily. So C. S. "Jack" Lewis opened my heart a bit more and I read every scrap of paper he ever wrote. Lewis did not give me faith. He said that no man could do that, echoing Kierkegaard.
But now, finally, my heart was open enough to allow for something. And then my prayers began in earnest because I was pushing 50 and worried that the one thing I had always wanted was slipping out of my grasp.
So I told God exactly that, this God that I wanted to love, and I spoke my need also directly to Jesus, this God made flesh that I wanted to believe and follow. For two years the prayers were sent out or up or where ever they go. And nothing. But I kept praying for the thing that eluded me half a century.
And all this time for decades I was a faithful church goer, one who had done it so long and so mechanically that even I sometimes cringed at the hypocrisy of it.
The search for faith, half a century in the making, came to an end one day when I woke up and realized that I had it. There were no angels or chapel bells ringing, no booming voice speaking to be out of a cloud, no seraph flying at me with a sacred coal to burn my lips, nothing like that. Just the cognition.
Had it been there all along? Had it crept up on me and infused me slowly, so slowly I could not even feel it happening. I don't know. I never will know. I just knew I had it.
And one thing I learned that I will pass on to you is that it does not come from the self. It does not come from within. The "I" of which you speak is not really the only subject in the universe, nor is it in the self where the freedom of faith is found.
Freedom is not in us waiting to be found and identified. Rather the freedom comes in the willingness to be open to the Other, to allow the Other to come in and dwell within us.
Paul speaks of freedom as being willing to be slaves to Christ. In our culture the term "slave" is off putting, so "servant" is another translation of the same word that we can understand better.
But modern man in America today finds the "surrender" inherent in the acceptance of faith to be anathema. We say we shall be free when nobody tells us anything and we do nothing that we don't want to do.
All I know is that I tried that for at least three decades and that did not work. That led not to faith but away from it. Just as Christ surrendered his life for the love of us. So I see this time as the time when we need to reciprocate. We need to surrender to his love so that we can be truly free. The irony and counter intuitive truth is that freedom is found in the surrender to the Other.
Take care my friend. And take the time to read this carefully. It took a long time to write and my love for you is the only reason I took it. My journey is not yours, but perhaps you can learn a bit from my journey as you continue on your own.
God bless,
Monte
bless you..........
Monte
The love is apparent. Thank you. I know about apportioning time, and i do it hell-mell. It is not wasted on me, your time. I read it carefully.
The parallels of our developments outweigh the contingent ....tangents. You have Barth, Bultmann, Schleilermacher, Kierkegaard, Otto, St Anselm, and of course Jack. I have a different cast of characters.
My faith comes to me through channels others shirk from. Illegal drugs: especially my sacramental thc. Booze awhile. Stuff to quell anxiety, which we know comes in three flavors, according to our friend Tillich. Despair, though, is the killing combo of all three, i just skimmed in "courage to be". Despair is my legacy. Utter.
I was burned a s a child, not badly, but i was marked. Ironically, my middle name is "mark". Selfconsciousness about two now insignificant scars on my chin drove me far inside. I peered through the caverns of my senses. I wished my senses to be shut down. Too much . I yearned for 30 years for the oblivion i knew in blowing a .32 on my bloodalcohol check...
I planned suicide every day. I clung to Mother til she died. I went to Father then, but Father was done. Demented and damaged from 30 years of mother's rage. A right done German.
So: what the heck, i went to the Germans. Hegel stood in the way everywhere. At the end of all roads of philosophy....stands Hegel in the clearing, smiling, saying, there is so much more to learn....
Lewis invented Narnia, where i took refuge as a boy. I took my solitude with his pal jrr. In fantasy. I read science fiction. I got all a's in high school & community college. I was in despair, but i chugged along, especially fascinated with physics and math. High math, but not that high. A little past differential equations, into the Linear Algebra, the Statistics theories...probability, my friend...
Chance. Random. Except: there was a serious dissociation between that and what i saw: a movie with a plot, this world was. What was the Plot? Who wrote it? Who....directed it, is what i wanted to know.
First i had to find a voice. I tried on a hippy voice, from my big sis. Then a tough guy. My big bro Paul. Then a gentle serious one....(he got what he deserved: nothing...)
Then, recently: my hands are moving ahead of my conscious mind. The words roll out, i know not wherefrom...then i realized: they were from me, and from you, and from everyone....i was finally here, now....I was finally James Emmerling, and i didn't shrink in shame when i pronounced my own name.
I am afraid of Barth, i dont know why....he seems like a big meanie, with tillich the nice grandpa. Lewis was who i always wanted to be, only without all the damn tragedy.
I love the end of "mere c"..."there are personalities in god....yah, but more: there are no real personalities anywhere else. Until you have given yourself to Him you will not have a real self...."
Ok, tough stuff. Give up, surrender. Islam=surrender, ja? Surrender is not the American way, nor is it the German way. So: a problem. Until I saw the truth: surrender to the Mystery. It will hold you up. There is no need of 100 per cent total control of every thought, every utterance, every feeling, because....well...this is where we get into what hegel called picture thinking...thinking in metaphors...
The symbolism is written in blood in the water. That is the living Bible. No other Bible will make it in my house. That means i gotta be alive to read it. But to get awake....to rise from sleep...to resurrect myself, i must....i should....
I must go tho the place where there is only trust. Trust in one man, for rightnow. Monte. Jesus. The Pope. Whoever. Trust that the words are coming from them from a deep fountain of intellect within....what blake called the poetic genius....and trust that words have power. The power is to shift the perspective. Aperspectival, or multiperspectival, take yr choice. All perspectives are encompassed in the Mind . In the Mind of God, I could add, but...so what if i dont? Isnt it appparent by now? The ontological proof is: I am.
Now: the other. I have trouble here, for i contain multitudes, just like Walt Whitman. They call it "mental illness" today. I have sailed through the storm, tied to the mast. My shipmates are leering at the circes and sirens and witches and bitches....the call of the other is a feminine one, for it is there that the world becomes a universe.
The female is the current Christ. She bleeds and worries and is consumed by cancer of her most profitable asset: her loving bosom. The womb too is cancerous, as is the blood. The Body is ill. The Living Flesh is in need of serious repair, and the microscopic obsessive compulsive planning of the genome is an amusing but odd little aberration of the post-modern scientfic mind, still clinging in vain to the last absurd Reductionism...I am a selfish gene....thank you, Richard Dawkins...
God is not great. Well, at least he's alive again, 120 years after Zarathustra. The ubermenschen are in bloom, and the saints are marchin in....
Love and respect, James Emmerling
One thing good that has come out of this discussion is that I took my small part of it, reflected on it a lot, and rewrote it as a separate post, something that I did not expect to do but it just came into my head that perhaps there were others like us who struggle for years, decades, who might find some solace in knowing that they were not alone. I hope you enjoy and get something out of the edited, redacted and slightly expanded version as well.
Together, Jim. No man is an island. So we walk together.
Monte
Thanks for all your hard work. Your insights are great and I am enjoying your posts. Just found you today. Where have I been? Great stuff!!!
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