Introduction to this Final Post
When we complete this look at Luke's account we will have studied all three of the accounts of the resurrection appearances in the Synoptic Gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke. Synoptic means that they can be "viewed together." This is because both Matthew and Luke use Mark's earlier written Gospel as the foundation of their Gospels.
An Overview of Luke's Gospel Account
Like Matthew, Luke relies partly on Mark's account, but not as much as does Matthew. While Matthew basically expanded upon Mark's resurrection story, Luke shortens some of Mark's details, probably to make room for more of his own. Luke has stories that appear only in his Gospel and stories that appear in his Gospel and in Matthew's, but not in Mark..
Luke includes the story of the empty tomb, but modifies it substantially. He also adds an appearance by Jesus to the assembled disciples, along with some very tangible testimony that Jesus is indeed alive. But, unlike Matthew, he includes no appearance to the women near the tomb. Like Matthew, Luke includes a commissioning of the disciples for mission, but not so specific a one as in Matthew; and he completes his story with the ascension of Jesus into heaven, something we find only in Luke.
We also find, only in Luke, an enchanting and theologically significant encounter between the Lord and two dejected disciples on the road to Emmaus. This beautiful little novella is full of insight and heavily freighted with meaning, adding a dimension to the meaning of the "breaking of the bread" that has profound implications for the meaning of the Eucharist (Holy Communion).
Luke also does something else that is unique to his Gospel. All of the appearances, and even the Ascension, take place in and around Jerusalem, and nothing happens in Galilee. For Luke, Galilee was where Jesus began His work, but Jerusalem is where he finished it.
Since for Luke everything significant in the story of Jesus centers in Jerusalem, it is not surprising that, in the end, we find the disciples together, in Jerusalem, praying in the Temple continually and awaiting the coming of the Holy Spirit whom Jesus has promised to send to them.
One final note on what you are going to read from now on. Luke is the most Christocentric and theologically demanding of the three synoptic Gospels. Therefore there will be more discussion about how Luke's Gospel speaks to Christians. This is not to imply that others cannot learn from this discussion, but it is to say that I will be talking more about what Christians need to know and do once they understand what Luke is saying. In sum, I will be speaking more as a Christian theologian in this the most obviously Christian of the posts in this series.
Luke's Account in Some Detail
With that background, let's look at Luke's account in a little more detail. Like the others, Luke begins at the empty tomb. Christian hope always begins at the empty tomb. Not that it "proves" anything of and by itself. After all, Matthew sought mightily to prove that there was no hoax and that the body was not stolen.
But the empty tomb was what the first witnesses saw. And what they saw they would later realize was the result of the resurrection. They saw that the tomb was empty, and they did not know why. The angels told them why, and Christian hope began right there, at the empty tomb; began as a simple hope that said, "Could it be true? O God, let it be true!"
And so, in Luke we see the women hurrying to the tomb on the third day, a larger group of women than reported in Mark and Matthew, but with the same principal woman, Mary Magdalene. And it is here, at the very beginning of Luke's account, that we see that the details among the Gospels continue to differ.
Luke says that the stone was already rolled away and that they actually go into the tomb, but do not find the body. It is only then, after they make this discovery for themselves, that the angels - yes, two angels, not one - appear and explain to them what happened.
And their explanation is different as well. The angels ask the women why they are looking for the living among the dead, and then state bluntly, "He is not here, He is risen." Then, rather than telling them to tell the disciples to go to Galilee as do the other Gospels, the angels say that they are to remember what Jesus told them while in Galilee: That he was to be handed over, to be crucified, and on the third day to rise again.
Although they were terrified, this instruction to "remember" is followed, and they do remember. And, while unstated in the text, it is in the remembering of Jesus' promise that they gain self control and return to tell the disciples, and "all the rest."
Luke reports a larger group of followers; followers who are gathered, not scattered, after the crucifixion. And followers who have remained in Jerusalem, and who will remain in Jerusalem throughout the initial post-resurrection time and even well beyond the Ascension. This is markedly different than in either Mark or Matthew.
Also of interest is that the gathered followers did not believe the women. They thought the women's testimony to be "an idle tale." But Peter must have heard some truth in their witness, for Luke tells us that Peter, alone, ran back to the tomb, stooped and looked in, seeing only the clothes.
It does not lead Peter to immediate faith, but it does lead him to amazement. Later we hear that the Lord appeared personally to Peter; no doubt dispelling any doubt he had; and still later we have to assume that Peter was once again with the large assembled group to which the Lord appeared, but only after Christ appeared to the two disciples on the road to Emmaus. Thus Peter likely saw the Risen Lord on at least two separate occasions.
Think about Peter for a moment. He goes from faithful disciple to denial to doubt, to hope, to believing witness, all in a matter of days. His faith journey is a microcosm of that of many of us.
The Story of the Two Disciples on the Road to Emmaus
Luke then moves from the empty tomb to the story of the two disciples on the road to Emmaus. Most of you already know this story. It is one of the most beloved Christian Bible stories. So let me just highlight some significant points for you to ponder in your own understanding of what this might mean to a Christian trying to live the faith.
You will notice first that the two dejected disciples do not recognize Jesus right away. We are often like that. Jesus comes to us in many guises, but we do not often recognize him. We don't expect him and so we don't see him. I encourage Christians to open your eyes to the possibility that he is actually among you in your daily lives.
Second, Jesus tells them that they are foolish; not because they grieve his loss, or because they are slow to believe not that he is risen, for they have little evidence of that at this point in the story. But he says that they are foolish for not believing what the prophets have already declared. In other words there was already all the information they needed in the Bible to understand Jesus' fate, had they only chosen to believe it.
Jesus had said something similar to the Rich Man in the story of Lazarus. The rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus to warn his brothers so that they would not suffer the same hellish fate as he suffered. But Abraham reminded him that they already had the testimony of the Bible, and that if they did not believe it then sending Lazarus would not help.
Later, after Jesus removed Himself from their midst, the Emmaus disciples realized the importance of what he had done in revealing the Scriptures to them. They said to one another, "Were not our hearts burning within us while he was talking to us on the road, while he was opening the scriptures to us."
Do we Christians burn with passion when we hear the Scriptures revealed? Do we need signs and wonders? Or do we need to get back to basics and to learn what has lain in front of us for thousands of years: the word of God, his promises to us as laid out in the Bible? Those questions are implicit in what Jesus says to these two dejected disciples. If a Christian would quench his or her thirst for faith, then each must spend time at the well. Most of us don't bother; and then we wonder why our faith fails us in times of trial.
So, what did Jesus do with these two of small faith? He took them back to the basics, back to the source of truth. Listen: "Then, beginning with Moses and the prophets, he interpreted to them the things about himself in all the scriptures." So too with Christians today. We need to hear the truth about Christ in the Scriptures if we have any hope of really understanding God's message to us.
Luke tells us that the identity of Jesus was finally realized by them in the breaking of the bread. "When he was at the table with them, he took bread, blessed and broke it, and gave it to them. Then their eyes were opened, and they recognized him."
While this scene is not as dramatic as the Last Supper in the Upper Room, it clearly has deep eucharistic overtones and speaks directly to what can happen to Christians when we take Holy Communion together.
What Luke does with this story is to build a bridge between the command to "remember" Jesus in the bread and the wine of the Last Supper, and the possibility for us to "see" the Risen Christ in the breaking of the bread.
In other words, when Christians participate with open hearts in Holy Communion we have the opportunity to witness the Risen Christ in our midst; to be witnesses to him as the Son of the Living God without our having been one of the original witnesses to his appearances.
After Jesus leaves them, they return in excitement to Jerusalem and tell the others their extraordinary story, only to learn that the Lord had also appeared to Peter. And this beautiful little novella of faith ends on the note: "Then they told what had happened on the road, and how he had been made known to them in the breaking of the bread."
The Risen Christ Appears to a Much Larger Group of Disciples
As the larger group is discussing these things, Jesus appears among them, saying "Peace be with you." Not surprisingly, they are startled and terrified, thinking he is a ghost. He asks them bluntly why are they frightened and why are they doubting! And then, with compassion on their doubting hearts, he tells them to look at his wounds, and even to touch him. And he reminds them that it is he himself and not a ghost.
Their reaction is one of joy and yet still of doubt; of disbelief and yet of wonder. Jesus recognizes their befuddlement and does yet another remarkable thing: He asks for something to eat! They give him a piece of fish and he eats it while they watch.
All of this detail is only in Luke's Gospel. These things are intended as Luke's testimony to both the witness of those original followers and to us, that Jesus was real, alive and resurrected. Apparently it worked for those original followers, because he now has their attention. And, as with the disciples on the road to Emmaus, Jesus goes back to the basics, reminding them of what he told them before he died: that the Biblical prophecies about him had to be fulfilled.
Then, like on the road to Emmaus, He "opened their minds" and taught them, saying: "Thus it is written, that the Messiah is to suffer and to rise from the dead on the third day, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins is to be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem."
And then he gave them the commission to do exactly that, telling them that they are witnesses to these things. In other words, their job is to testify to the truth that he is the Messiah, and to preach repentance and the forgiveness of sins. Yes, the mandate here in Luke is slightly different than the Great Commission in Matthew. Yet it covers much of the same ground. The point of both scenes is that Jesus appears to His followers and gives them a purpose, commissioning them to proclaim the Good News to the world!
He then instructs them to remain in Jerusalem and await the anointing of the Holy Spirit which He will send to them. Then, having completed His instructions to them, He leads them out to Bethany and blesses them. And, while He is blessing them, He is ascends into heaven. Luke is the only Gospel writer to describe the Ascension.
Concluding Thoughts on the Resurrection Appearances
And so we complete our look at the resurrection appearances in Mark, Matthew and Luke. While there are details that are different, there are more important similarities.
In all of the narratives someone is present who is described in very personal language as the Risen Christ, and that person is clearly the same Jesus of Nazareth who died on the Cross.
Further, that person is never described as a vision or as a dream, as something happening internal to the witness. Rather, the Risen Christ is always described as a being external to the witness; as an objective external reality, never as a subjective internal feeling.
In some cases the Risen Christ is not immediately identifiable to the witnesses. The Risen Christ is more than merely human, and clearly has powers far beyond those of mere mortals. Yet, the Risen Christ is always correctly identified as Jesus; is called "Lord;" and is worshiped.
And finally, the Risen Christ always issues a commission to discipleship and mission. And that mission is always universal in scope and clear in mission: to call people to faith.
The abuse of the commission to call people to faith in his name has caused much trouble through the centuries, when zealots have used that call to bludgeon those who did not answer that call. Christianity has much to account for and to ask forgiveness for, when the name of Christ has been used as an excuse for evil.
But there is nothing in the words of Christ or in the Bible describing a Christ that tells his followers to use his name to commit evil upon others. That his name has been used as an excuse for inflicting pain and death on others cannot and should not be denied. But that Jesus always spoke first of peace, brotherhood, hope, love, charity and sacrifice as the correct call for his disciples cannot be denied either.
Nor should we deny that throughout history there have been Christians who have spoken the truth to those who have abused Christ's name and his commandments, both within and without the Church. Many of those paid the highest price for that speaking of the truth to power.
And those of us who believe that Christ abhors the abuse of his name and speak out against such abuse now and in the future may well have to pay for speaking out. But the Gospel flame will forever burn in the hearts of those who know how Jesus intended his followers to witness to his love.
For, most of all, in all of the Gospels the Risen Lord always offers a promise of hope and love to others far removed from the original disciples and witnesses. That is the very essence of the witness that his followers are to share with others, even to the ends of the earth and to the end of the age.
May God bless you all.
Monte
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Comments
Yes. It's important to remember the good with the bad, and I suppose that goes to my lifelong philosophy that we can't possibly know the one without the other. The Christian hurch, in all its various guises, has, as you say much, to answer for ... but also much to be proud of.
I think it is a human trait to manipulate any kind of authoritative writing into an excuse to exercise power over others. This has happened with the Bible of course, but also the Koran, and our own constitution. Sadly, the good works and original intent are often missed as a result. Appreciate all the time and thought you have put into this series, Monte. Glad you are here.
Beautiful ending to your series, Monte. So much could be said about your wisdom and accounts, however, you have already said it all. Much appreciated and assimilated for deeper understanding of these events in early Christianity.
It is as you say, B1, important to remember the good with the bad, but unfortunately it is easy to remember the bad when the radical Bible thumpers have caused so much damage, particularly since the Moral Majority. There has to be a balance, but right now Christianity has dug itself into a big hole.
And, Dusty, you are absolutely right about the way other religions have also used their sacred texts as excuses for their own abuses of power. That is part of human nature, a part I hate, but that is no reason for any of us to blame the writings instead of blaming the people who manipulate the meanings of the texts. Good point.
Cathy, leave it to you to remind me of that bar of soap! Sorry to hear that it was not used just in my house. The irony with me was that my immediate family was not church going. But I guess the soap bar was! Thanks for being here and for all your care and support.
Monte
I am not sur e what you mean : "the risen christ is never a subjective experience.....,"
But: objective reality so-called is
a dead issue. There is none.
You can pare language down to bare bones & make it boring, but why do that when there
is joy to be
found in the use of language?
In the use of all God's (subjective) gifts......
We are built by the Creator to be subjective entities...
so where is the objective reality if
it is all owned by us,
the Human Race, which owns all airwaves
everywhere. We think and structure the world
into some new Gestalt everyday and yet these gestalts of
subjective experience float
harmlessly fdown the stream of Time...
never uniting into a common ,...um...."Gestalten".....
did i just make up a german word or use an old one,
i wonder...
just as we all have the capacity to share language
with each other, we cantransmit metaphors
and symbols galore....
the right symbols win the war, maybe...
whatever th e damn War is thesee days....
It's between the interior people who wanna relax
and the busy people who never can, cuz they are
building th World that keeps
me & my kind safee...
welfare for the spiritually fortunate isnt a baaad thing, is it?
jim
The point is far simpler and the language reflects simple normal usage. There is nothing esoteric here. The arguments for those who do not believe always turn on guesses that what the witnesses participated in a mass hallucination, or a vision, or a dream, or somehow created something made up within the person, ie, there was nothing going on outside of the person. Outside = "objective". Inside = "subjective."
If you don't believe that there is any difference, I can understand that. But I do see a difference. The point I am making does not even need the words "subjective" or "objective." Just take them out and maybe it will be easier for you to see where I am coming from. Then again you may simple have a different paradigm of the world.
So this is what I wrote:
"Further, that person is never described as a vision or as a dream, as something happening internal to the witness. Rather, the Risen Christ is always described as a being external to the witness; as an objective external reality, never as a subjective internal feeling."
I am one who believes, some philosophers - and you? -- notwithstanding, that there is an objective reality that actually exists apart from me. That is to say, for example, that when I die the world that I now understand to exist will continue to exist without me in it. And someone else will be able to continue to see it and interact within it, completely without me. It sounds like your world is not the one I see. That is fine by me. But this is where I come from. It may not be relevant to you.
Thanks for commenting. I haven't gotten to your last post yet. Too many irons in the fire. But I will eventually get there.
Blessings,
Monte
Thank you Monte, I have a feeling I will be back now and then to reference parts when I need to.
Monte
Thanks for clarifying. I was in a bit of a combative mood yesterday, and "subjective-objective" is one of my little bug-a-boos. No, I am not a subjective idealist. I am not an objective idealist, either. I am, with Hegel, an Absolute Idealist. But...with the lessons of science included. The lessons learned since Hegel's death.
Re. the objective universe, of course it's there. And i see your point about the Christ. It is not SIMPLY a subjective event, it is real, out in the world. I think what i was trying to say was: the Christ is objectively real, but what is its nature?Its nature, Jesus's nature, his human nature, was absolute self-consciousness, i believe. This is not as mysterious or esoteric as it sounds. It's very very simple, actually. It means He is aware of his self-consciouness . As we all are, but to a very limited degree. His awareness of Himself, which is human and divine, is absolute. Nothing gets by him, to be vernacular.
Now, what is the objective universe? To say it is object-ive obviously implies a subject. Subject-object....that is the very structure of reality, i believe, with A.N. Whitehead. Kant said we kant (Ha) know the thingin itself. Because we are stuck in time and space. Which are categories of our mind. Along with 12 others....mm hm. But if the "thing" is out of time & space, it is beyond causality, one of his damn categories, correct? So it is not the cause of our subjectively appropriating it. Dead end, there.
So the object is where? Well, simply put, it is here. What is it? It is first and foremost, Being. All Being in the universe is identical. Be-ing, noun or verb...it is identical. Identity of being is the reason we are aware of other beings...or be-ings...i prefer the verb much more than the noun....it emphasizes the process nature of reality....
Everything is in process. We "process" sense data, and build them into perceptions, and then into concepts. Maybe even Paradigms, if we are really bright...The stuff we process is "real", it is Being...
Now here it gets tricky. It gets somewhat "mystical", but "rationalizing mystical insights" is the practice of philosphy, says Whitehead, and i'm with him, all the way...
The object is trans-form-ed, made into an object that can exist in a human world. What other world is there? An orangutan's world is maybe similar. A bat's is way way different. An ant's? Wow, only God knows...
And yes, God does know. For here is my vision of God: He somehow, beyond reason, beyond any explanation, SEES AND EXPERIENCES WHAT HIS CREATURES SEE 7 EXPERIENCE. In His World, his Subjectivity, it is all happening NOW, always. Everything. He is with us every instant, and he is preserving our experience, and he is molding it, and he is sending it
back to us, in time and space, where the subject-object reality is in force. In Eternity, beyond Time &SPace, how could there be subjects and objects...there would be no SPACE between them, right? No time lapse, either...
So i guess you see i have some interesting paradigms a-forming. Again, it is all process. I take everything you say, Monte, and process it into my paradigm, and hopefully someday i'll be
processed right into Heaven!
Jim.bless
are you sure that when you die the world will continue
to exist w/o you in it?
what about all yr writings, your friends' remembrances, the thoughts you transmitted?
Your body will be gone, sure. Your mind? Well, where is it now?
Seriously...is it IN this cosmos?
In what sense is a human consciousness OF the world
IN the world?
How do you know that it wont be still IN
the world...
Bill clinton might say: "Uhhh, it all depends on the definition of 'in' "...
?
I have a full plate today getting ready for Sue and I to go to the mountains tomorrow on the bikes so won't spend much time here.
Two things. First, if we get back to what I thought all this hard work I did writing this series was all about, the resurrection appearances, please remember that I described the resurrection as an event taking place at the intersection of time and space as we know it and eternity, and thus while there are bits and pieces left over for us to notice the happening of it, including the appearances, etc., by definition we did not witness the event nor is there any "proof" of it. Witness testimony is as close to that as we can get.
Second, when I say that the world will exist without me, I mean with me not in it in the same way that I was "in" it before: as a fully human person. There is a world, and a cosmos, a created universe, beyond me, of which I am a small fly speck. That my ideas will live on, or my writings, etc., will be up to someone else to decide and I will have no part in deciding that. By faith I believe that I will live on, not within time and space as we know it, but in eternity which we cannot comprehend.
One of the things that finally stopped all my little gray cell synopses from firing all at once was finally accepting mystery. We are simply not wired to understand it all. Hegel was not. Whitehead was not. NONE of us are. I understand how humbling that can be to realize that. Some people it crushes. Others it frees. Because ultimately we either go to total egocentricity or we go to submission. After 50 years I chose submission.
Don't know what you will chose but can only say that when you recognize the reality of mystery and choose submission to the Other a lot of things fall into place. I decided shortly thereafter that it was the height of my own arrogance to have lived so long believing that I was the center of it all.
I don't want any of my years back because many of them were painful. But had I it to do over again, blank slate, I hope I would have gotten me out of the heart of the equation a lot sooner.
Blessings,
Monte
I see where you're coming from. The Mystery is always there,
I know. I'm not just being glib, I've experienced "it". Who could not, when it surrounds us night and day? It is only our self-centeredness that prevents it. Give that up & yre golden with God. And that is who you need to be good with. Not the world.
The world isn't really real, is what I meant by all that subjective-objective talk earlier. It is a series of appearances. It never stands still enough to be real, for one thing! Also it is "unreal" in the moral sense of not worthy of too much trust or attention.
Except sometimes, of course. When things "get real", as we say, as if we lived a half-real life. When heart matters come up, for one.
The heart is blessed with a power of giving itself over in surrender to an Other. Whether that other be God only, or God and a circle of acquaintances & family, it doesn't matter. It pours out. It is a living energy force that is subjectively tangible and
has been well-documented by phenomenological testimony of the ages...
Today the heart energy is starving to feed....
My heart is shy. My hear t says, there is too much to learn, too much to retrace in the weltanschauung....where things went wrong, for we must find, and correct, and
explain them. Because they are more than mistakes of thinking, they are mistaken modes of thinking. This is what's killing Gaia, not greenhouse gases. Learn, and teach how to learn to those who don't know or cannot remember.
My heart is shy because so many times i have let so many ignorant people get me so damn far off track in my life. I think people are "for the birds", as Mom said. Half the time.
I guess I just have issues with the Other I need to work out. He & I need intensive therapy, together, to reach an accomodation, perhaps..
Jim
catching the zeitgeist perfectly. abuncha depressed generation x-ers. mama's boys. in the 1980s, paternalistic & cruel. well, my dad was more reagan than reagan, and called reagan a "horse's ass". so anyway,
i went to this therapist & buber came up. he was high on martin. i said, "ja, liked it" re. the book, which i had....skimmed....enough to know it was what i call a "bible"...abook so good it could be opened anywhere & get good relevant shit...
so he says, "jim, you are the Other." hm. he is this protestant lookin guy, so severely newenglandy i had a cramped head in his presence. just like my mother's ancestors, buncha puritan tightasses. but i liked him. i said, "hm"
what the hell did he mean? i think i get it: i spend too much time wondering what the OTHER person will think,feel, &do...i get nervous because i want this other person to love me, so i gotta try on
his head for awhile. or her head. i think feel and act as i think they want me to. so they will love me. now i realize i am a Person in my own right, with feelings, etc. the same shit they been sayin at me for 25 tedious yrs.....
but its true, i'll be damned...I AM A PERSON....I AM, goddammit..
Jim, in a stretched to the goddamn limits by a stubborn woman who wont give me a scrap of gdam affection...yah, you, Lady, if yr e readin this, snoopy little girl...gr..
Jim, in romantic quandry after quandry. whats the answer here? shuttup & do what she says?
The signs are looking quite wonderful, I wonder what our father has in store?
"Christianity has much to account for and to ask forgiveness for, when the name of Christ has been used as an excuse for evil."
I don't feel Christianity has anything to apologize for. Evil was performed (and still is) by men who used Christianity as a weapon or a deception , not Christianity itself, though I imagined many wouldn't see it that way.
This also jumped out at me,
Think about Peter for a moment. He goes from faithful disciple to denial to doubt, to hope, to believing witness, all in a matter of days. His faith journey is a microcosm of that of many of us.
I would venture that this is all too true for many of us.
Thanks, Monte, Very well done.
I always always get so much from reading your posts! It is almost like being in the pew of an especially beautiful (but humble) church & I can hear your voice from the pulpit.
What stays with me from this particular post is when you write about the dejected disciples not recognizing Jesus right away. "Jesus comes to us in many guises, but we do not always recognize him." In my own church experience, that is something that stood out for me, the thought that Jesus could be among the homeless, the prisoners, the guy sitting in the back of the bus.
I also like that you refer to Peter's faith journey as something many of us experience, going from "denial, to doubt, to hope, to believing witness..." You personalize the Biblical experience, so that we don't see these people as simply "Bible stories" or historical figures unrelated to us, but instead empathize & connect & identify with Peter and Mary Magdalene, even & especially, with Jesus.
And it does infuriate me when those who claim to be followers of Christ abuse & twist his teachings. It's frustrating to me that so many people that I love are anti-Christian because they see people in power doing horrific things in the name of Christ.
Anyway...Geo should be back any minute now so I'd better go look busy! : ) Once again, thanks for these posts, they are much appreciated & enjoyed.
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Jim: you don't do therapy together with the Other, nor do you reach an accommodation with him. It can't work that way. He doesn't need therapy. He is the source of all therapy. And we don't bargain with him (Well, actually we do but it doesn't work) since he does not reach accommodations with us. We either surrender to the accommodations he offers, or we don't. God is not a Chinese menu where we can take two of those and one of that. He just offers us what he thinks is the best for us and we can accept his way or take the highway of our own making.
Even with your therapist you were bargaining. Notice that? There is no bargaining with God. We are not Faust; and he is not Satan. We are created entities, creatures. God is the creator. I know we forget that, but that is the way it is. I also know that a few, a handful, of the prophets and great leaders in the Bible bargained with God, and one or two got some very small concessions, but that was at God's decision, not theirs. In all of those, God had all the options. The one who bargained could not implement any changes without God's help, so in essence he was bargaining from total weakness and God condescended to give a requested grace.
I have been a therapist for many years and the therapist you describe is not one that makes any sense. Maybe he did and you misinterpreted him. Or, if he indeed did say that you are the Other, then he was one of those therapists who believe that the cure is to make their clients as narcissistic as they are. Those do a lot of damage because teaching someone that the world ends at the end of his or her nose is not doing them any favors.
You are indeed, a person, and so is your lady. She and you are both creatures. Neither of you is the Other. She is other than you, lower case, but still a creature.
==================================
Hey, Bill, will catch you later in the month, then. Whenever you are ready you know how to send a PM. I am no messiah, but will be glad to converse with you.
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Thanks, Dave. I appreciate your enjoying it.
===========================
Hi, Mike. Glad these have been part of your Sunday reading.
What I mean by Christianity having much to account for is that any of us who in this generation claim to be Christians, part of Christianity, then we have to accept responsibility for the entirety of Christianity, not just the good things. Great pain and sometimes absolute evil was committed in the name of Christ and Christianity and we need to recognize it and be sorry that it happened.
It is sort of like the fact that you and I had nothing to do with slavery or the decimation of the Native American population, etc. But if there is to be healing we need to recognize and apologize for the errors of our Anglo-Saxon forebears. Likewise, we need both to call out and call to repentance those who still abuse the name of Christ. But at the same time I think that I need to apologize to any otherwise innocent person who has fallen for these false teachers who are teaching in the name of Christ.
There are many here on OS who are angry to this day and hate Christianity because of the damage done to them in their childhood. I will not allow them to spew their hate on my blog, but I have written to them privately and told them how sorry I am that they were abused by others claiming a faith and a God that I am not familiar with.
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Hi, Suzie, good feeling for me that you have stayed with the series and gotten good out of it. The Gospels are far less about trying to discern some set of universal truths and then pound those into people's heads than about sharing the stories of Jesus and the disciples -- and how they were very much ordinary people just like us, who were confounded by a Messiah so different from the one they had come to expect.
Most of the time Jesus was infinitely patient with the disciples (whom one professor of mine called the DUH-ciples!). He understood so much their humanity. I think that it serves us well to remember that if Jesus found favor with those then there is every reason that he will find favor with us. If we learn the stories and are more able to identify with the characters in the stories then the Bible will speak to us now in this generation. The Bible becomes personal, and their stories become our family stories.
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God bless everyone. And thank you so much.
Monte
Excuse the foullanguage i predict will come out here. I know it is not a proper venue for my profanity, but i am with eliade & dont really consider anything profane, anyway....
I have been thru a living hell of monumental, absurd proportions lately with my woman over i dont know what. I have had to go all "George the german principal", my dad, on her...ach.....i wouldnt hate a PM...if you got the time...i got very few really sane peepul in my life, except me, andthat is usually enuf, but i also got a sister, Suzieq, who i am depending on...the other? gr..her husband is dying maybe & a nyway he hates me..alotta peepul hate me...
I understand your explications,and thank you...but i have a few questions...
I get the "other" thing. I subscribe to approximately the same view, but here is where wwe are different..
As the child of an Alcoholic mom & dad, i am addicted to drama. So i create intellectual drama, cuz i am real bright. but i am still in.....adolescent mode...some enfant terrible sometimes...i am so sick of sloppy thinking...anyway...
1.you say he "accomodates" us...this Other does...
Accomodationis an interesting choice of word s here..something supplied for a need....the etymology of accomodate tells me it means "to make fit & suitable...
But how do we KNOW what is fit for us? Waht is fit for us? I say: ease. Spiritual ease and "witnessing" of our lives. That is paramount. Do you petition a personal God for that, or do you go through strenuous mental & spiritual ....exercises....for that?
Like in the East, bless them, their tender and calm heart.
The Eastern peoples will be a most stupendous people...peoples...once they learn the West's great lesson: individualization..
I wrote on someone's blog that this is the pt of the Universe: to create a viewpt in the very Process of time & space
a conscious watching of conscious process...self-consciousness....
absolute in hegelian terms...look at, well, everything! the pt of Nature is to birth Man...it is that simple is it not? Well, it MUST BE....we call "her" MOther Nature...
Accomodating is helping to achieve all potentialities of ...form...entelechy in Aristotelian, which i suppose i speak, tho he was a bit of an odd character, wasnt he? advising Alex the Great? hm
2.Surrender to accomodations...what about free damn will? Free will is the ability to choose the right path in the world...
a malformation of will, whatever it be,
a power, an ability, a source, a mode of being, whatever...
is to choose the..um...wrong path..but how do we
know which is best? simple...the one that INCREASES Being...
3. We need another concept here, friend , to bridge thd Gap betweenour thought-universes. Sometimes i getcha, then you get all "God" & "Jesus" on me...i guess i have an instinctive bad reaction to it...alas...
4. how about Being? I like it as the bridge concept. Le t us promis e to use it thusly:
a. God is the Creator of Being
2. Being has..um, laws...oneis to evolve
3. another is to individualizeitself
4. another, not so mush a lwaw as a condition, is: being is identical
inother words, we are OF THE SAME energy-stuff or whatever. Examples:
i can know your thoughts because you can communicate them to me. this is because we are of the same being, we share the same being, we live & have our being, etc (from, yes, God)
5.Another law for being, and it is crucial:
Being individualizesitself, but in...hierarchies..first the molecular entelechy, or form..
then when this has become suitably evolved, it "jumps" or "leaps", from the power of the Evolution of Being
to the next level....life...then look out...plant, animal;,human....
adam & eve were eal...the first hominid who leaped to the human entelechy, the ...spirit, my philosphy professor called it.....
The reasonfor this seemingly strange request...is to understand the ,,ha,..other..
i think the guy was spookin me outta my depression..like: get real , man, & use yr head..he always said i would someday be an important Thinker & write books, et...maybe even articles...everytime i saw him he said, "still waitin for that book, james"...Protestant m-fucker..looked like he dropped outta a hawthorne story...
i liek thise quotea his..should put it up in a damn hologram...
"labor is the curse of the world...(ha)
& nobody can meddle with it w/o becoming brutified.."
jim, in a better mood after this rant.....
But this dialogue of ours is way off the topic of Luke's gospel account of the resurrection appearances. And we need to let this post come to a close.
Just a couple of things.
Of course I go all God and Jesus on you. It is exactly what I do. I am a Christian theologian. How would you expect anything else? You wouldn't go to a plumber to have heart surgery, or to a dentist to talk about quantum physics. Talking about God and Jesus is my bag. And I am good at my thing, so when you get me you get God and Jesus.
Only difference is that you get them for free. For decades now other people have been paying for them. If you are going to play catch with me you get God and Jesus too.
Second, you have to read what I write carefully. Nothing I say abrogates or changes free will. Have you given much thought to why we have free will, assuming you accept that God intentionally gave us free will? If there isn't a God then the concept of free will is meaningless. All creatures, including humans, have a certain amount of free will, will that is not genetically programed. My cats don't have to love me, but they do. Free will.
But the term "free will" when used in discussing humans, in Christian anthropology, means that it is a gift from God. A gift he chose to give to us which has given him one hell of a case of heartburn.
So, if we are such screw ups with our free will how have we screwed up so that God needs Tums?
It all turns on love. Free will is an act of God's loving us enough to let us go. He wants our love but he will not demand it nor will he build it into us as an automatic pre-programmed response to his love.
We are given free will so that we can love him, surrender to him, accept his "accommodations" for us because we really want to.
Paul again, and he does pop up with me a lot, but I am used to it. Paul says that we are free, free as birds. But, what, he says, are we free to do if we be Christians? Well, this one will grab you: Paul says we are free to choose to become slaves to Christ.
Have you got that one now? He gives us free will so we can go out and see if we can make it on our own, if we can stand to be without his love and loving him for all of his grace he has so freely given to us, our life, our "being" to use your term. If we can do without him, he accepts that. That is the price God is willing to risk. We can always exercise our free will to turn from him. His desire, however, is that we will turn to him of our own volition, our own free will.
See you in the PMs.
Monte
Much appreciated.
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