I was excited when Salon wanted to cross publish my piece. I told all of my friends. When the link was sent to me, I sent it to them.
Then, I waited. I hit the reload button over and over until *there* it was!
I’m embarrassed to say I even took a picture of the Salon.com cover with MY article on the front page. The title had been changed and the lead in seemed...misleading? Yes, misleading. The title seemed provocative, the lead in almost humorous. Almost.
I had posted the same piece ( Mom, I'm gay ) the day before on OS. What I found out is that a post on Salon elicits very different comments from those on Open Salon.
My parenting was called into question. My skills as a therapist were roundly dismissed. I was accused of promoting a liberal, homosexual agenda and suggesting my son GAYMARRY. I stand accused of not listening to my son (and apparently also prevent him from having relationships with biological males). My patients are in constant threat by my unethical behavior. I also intend to use my son’s brain injury for my amusement.
Xanax, anyone?
It was quite the awakening.
I hit the trifecta of reactivity: a same-sex relationship, therapist, parent. I know many people have had bad experiences with any or all of this trifecta. I guess many of them comment on Salon. After my initial shock after reading the first two comments, I let go of my ego investment and waited for what else might roll in. I had some wonderful, supportive comments that I deeply appreciated. Some told me their own stories and I nodded as I read, thinking, yes, it is like that.
I also had some trolls that I was not sure had actually read my essay. Those comments seemed to have an agenda of their own--my essay was simply a vehicle to hitch a ride on. Some commenters ‘knew’ other commenters and would respond to them, usually with derision or condescension.
I didn’t know I would feel so unsheltered.
I expected some dissension, some criticism. Naively, I think I also hoped to reach an audience who might ‘get’ that my family had suffered and others might relate to the circumstance. I did not expect personal attacks or judgements about my ability to perform adequately in my profession.
Why not, you might ask?
My experience on OS. Open Salon is in most instances kind and supportive. There are the trolls who pop out and offer invective but they are not our most active commenters. We are not necessarily good critics because we are frequently more invested in the relationship more than in offering a critique. We become familiar to each other thru our writing of hardship, of small triumphs, of heartache, of our pasts, of healing and desire. No one on Salon gives a wit about me or my family, I am but one small essay to them. Here, on OS, people have seen my struggle and been in the trenches with me. I feel I have been in the trenches with many of you--laughing, rolling my eyes, tearing up, smiling.
This is not to say I won’t continue pimping myself out word wise to the world. I know that people who read me will read because they have an interest in my topic/issue. Salon offers that as well but the anonymous commenters write with some mighty sharp pens. It’s a good lesson, (re)learning that writing is meant to evoke--I was successful with that.
To those of you who are here with me: I applaud you because it means you, too, keep coming back., you keep writing, you keep reading. You are my shelter and I hope I can be a part of yours as well.
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Desnee Flakes
Ingrid Ricks
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Congratulations on your EP and cross-post. Nasty trolls notwithstanding, it's still an honor.
Perhaps some jealousy played a part? These may have been former OS people without a clue as to who you are. Your work stands for itself. I applaud you.
Rated
By the way, what ever happened to Keillor? Did the trolls finally drive him off Salon or was it his fragile health?
by the way, i've taken screencaps of OS when I've made the cover...it doesn't happen often and I want proof! i totally get doing it for Salon!
I'm glad I'm a sucky writer and don't deserve even the appearence of Editor let alone getting socketed up to Salon, I hear too many terrible stories about that place. Pfffffft!! :)
Rated and hopefully commented cause well, Open seems to have missed me so badly yesterday(didn't even turn on the computer!!!) that it went boooohooooohoooo!! SHUTDOWN!! :D
Salon is a battleground. You were actually treated more gently than most. I hope you didn't only find value in those who praised you or echoed you.
As for the spewers of invective, how crappy does your life have to be, that you sit around doing that. You can always back away from your computer, but they have nowhere to go but their own skins.
Going to try and rate and leave this for you now.......
Ignore the bad comments - unless some of them made you think or rethink. I've had some food pieces cross posted to big Salon and got a few negative comments about FOOD, which proves that people can be negative about anything if they are negative people to begin with, throw in anonymity and you have a perfect swirl of asshole puckery.
You write beautiful, meaningful essays.... F (forget) them!!
I've been active for several years in a blogging community based on a popular on-line game. There too the community is warm and supportive and friendly, but once you start straying into the larger commercial sites the hatemongers start to appear and hound you like vicious dogs. Sad reality of the internet, I'm afraid.
Going back to your previous post, I would like to say that I think your son is very fortunate to have such patient and understanding family and friends. I wish him a full and swift recovery from his injury. And I applaud your ability to keep your sense of humor - being able to laugh sometimes is all that stands between us and running for the horizon screaming.
Don't take any of it personally. In a few weeks, you'll find those comments freaking hilarious. I did.
OS seems to be a community of people who like to write extremely personal material -- not news or commentary or analysis, as other sites do. The people who post extremely emotional material get a lot of ratings and "hugs" and EPs and it's probably a lovely, supportive way to express yourself.
Salon, for those who don't make a living writing (I have for 35 years) is a coveted little soapbox, a place many professsional writers would like to have their work appear so all the right editors and peers can see it and admire this. When an amateur or newbie shows up, especially one unaware of or unaccustomed to the sharp elbows of the larger blogging world and the comments that appear when you receive that level of prominence, it's to be expected.
Writers -- beyond the borders of OS, which is a place for people who like to write, but I would not characterize as a place for professionals, per se, in that field -- are typically very rough on one another. As are agents and editors and commenters. If you're going to run with the Big Dogs, you need some mighty sharp teeth.
A comfy, cosy environment can lull a blogger into a false sense of security. However unpleasant, comment, questions, criticsm and challenge can sharpen your thinking and writing.
One of my recent posts elsewhere got 8,000 views within 3 days and more than 200 comments, many of them vitriolic. Bring. It. On. The whole point, for some of us, is debate and dialogue, not only reassurance.
I like your comment.
Whereas some of the OS letter writers in this thread seem to think that OS people are better, kinder, and more liberal, I think that the tit for tat fosters civility. There is an unspoken understanding that if one OS writer posts something nice, it will be reciprocated. The arrangement is bolstered by "Favorites" and "Inviting Friends". I don't write much for the Internet because it's so uncontrolled and with anonymity, we can be horrible, much as as Americans are horrible through our taxpaying to people in various countries. Our faces are hidden from our victims, so it's bombs away.
I have written about everything from my family disowning me to finding myself in an empty nest. And people have read, and provided friendship and support. I don't think the Salon audience is wired that way... One of the many reasons I am happy to have found you and others like you, mypsyche.~r
What an ugly world we live in.
Greta writing did not deserve ugly comments.
Rated with hugs
Although much of my writing deals with emotional issues, I never write any of it with the hope of getting "hugs" or "support". I think the people who read that kind of writing relate to it and get something out of it. I like reading about the human condition. I like writing about it too. That it seems to attract the supportive comments and the eventual friendships is the bonus of this place. For me, anyway...
I'm glad you're brave and big enough to listen to discordant voices.
write on.
Oh for the good old days.
Now get off my lawn!
But I occasionally post comments at the Daily Beast and I've seen the sort of anti-social raving that goes on. It's easy to say, Just ignore it, but it's easier said than done.
And yeah, it's fine when people take issue with what you actually wrote (fair game and as you found, instructive to you as both a writer and a person) but many of the comments, especially the nastiest ones, are either just personal insults without any real content or claim you wrote something you didn't. Many of the ones I've gotten seem to be based on the title alone (which as you know, editors often change or choose for you) and maybe the first paragraph. The failure to read a piece all the way through, much less consider its full message, is evident in many comments.
But sadly I think this is the cost of being a writer in public these days. Time was, the worst you had to fear were nasty letters to the editor and few of those hit print (since the publication controlled which appeared). Now hundreds of strangers can slag you with the click of a button and the rest of the world can see what they think of you, which I think adds to the sting of it. These days it seems to happen on almost all sites, and to all writers, including very respected professionals. So it's not personal.
So OS is indeed a very protected place, as most feedback here is positive, and even the disagreements are generally civil and thoughtful (at least where content is concerned -- the silly personal feuds are another matter, but they have nothing to do with writing). People often don't seem to realize how good they have it here as writers until they see what it's like elsewhere, as you just did.
Unfortunately, this is one of the downsides of the public sphere and Open Salon is significantly kinder and more civilized than most from my experience so far. I doubt I'll get posted there as I am mostly writing about a niche subject for a more specific, smaller audience but if that were to happen, I am relying on my background in indie writing and broadcasting and some of the barbs flung at me there to prep me.
In the meantime, try to realize that assholes will be assholes, that it's more about them than you, and that at the end of the day you did great work, but, as others have said, easier said than done.
rated.
Lezlie
P.S. I probably just lied! lol I would be too curious.
Thank you for your brave, broad shoulders and ability to thrive despite the dissent.
I can't agree this is what happens in a professional writing forum. I, too, make my money writing and as rough and tumble as it can get, it never, never gets as evil as Salon.com comments. If only for the simple reason that professionals tend not to dump on each other, because you never know who you'll be working with next.
Madam Ruth, just to clarify my own comment in case you were responding to it -- I was saying this is what happens these days to all professional writers who publish articles online. If you read the comments after almost any article on any site (NY Times, TIME mag, HuffPo, your local newspaper, etc etc), you will see a lot of negative comments and insults. Some sites -- e.g., NYT -- remove the really offensive or pointless ones, so they may only be up for awhile. But they're out there, everywhere, even after articles by very accomplished writers who've done meticulous research. I wasn't speaking of sites for writers, but general publication sites.
Yay, you, for having your excellence recognized! The hostile jerks can take a long walk off a short pier.
I am still new and trying to figure out the culture at OS. thanks for this.
Yet, your article was deemed Salon-worthy. Hold on to that. Those trolls don't get to say the same thing.
Am I understanding correctly that Salon doesn't pay you when your essays are posted there? If so, you shouldn't celebrate when your copy is posted at Salon. You're not even the farm team. You're unpaid labor. And I see the ad directly above this comments box, so you're generating some income here at OS.
But I want to say this: After watching this happen to OS friends for a while now, I have resolved to do one thing if I ever get something on BS: I have resolved to accept the responses there as data. There are obvious trolls, and they should be jettisoned without compunction, but there are also many direct disagreements that are valid. They are not couched in the language of friendship like they can be here, and that is because they are from people with whom we have no relationship. The reason I have decided not to reject outright the negative comments I might get is because usually there is a thread to them, a common theme, that I have seen as potentially valid. It's easy for me to say this here, mypsyche, because I loved your piece to death and simply disagreed with the detractors. For some of the others, though, I had two different reactions: one of them received some letters that highlighted a minor negative reaction I'd had myself. Another one that I'd loved on OS got some letters that highlighted something that I hadn't thought of but now saw had some merit. It's not important to *me* in those cases whether the writer ever really considered those new ideas (I know it's popular to choose not even to read them), but it did give me insight into the notion that there may be some hard truths there on BS that I might just want to know about myself or my writing down the line, things that for whatever reason OS won't give me. And I'm not complaining, btw, that I don't get that from OS. It is what it is, and I've become more than comfortable with it. When I first started here I wanted it to be more like BS. I wanted less trite and more razor-sharp critique. But now that would devastate me here. Like family turning on me or something. I think it's kind of good to know we can take a turn at the lion's den once in a while, see what we're made of, learn a thing or two, and then come back into the fold.
i probably shouldn't jump in here, but i've read this caitlin kelly's comments here and on a few other OS posts, and i wonder (about her and others who, like her, are big blog folks and paid writers - blah blah blah) why she has an OS account. there's just a big question mark hanging right out there in space ...