Rolling

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APRIL 9, 2011 1:21AM

Why Leave, Stella? Mishima Could have Written a New Post

Rate: 14 Flag

The OS Environment  -Members are Uncomfortable

Padraig in his comment here (http://open.salon.com/blog/nabina_nag/2011/03/27/two_years_on_os_-_stock_taking): "I remember that you chastised me when I gave up on OS a while back, just drained by it. I know it’s not easy to ignore the nastiness, especially when one is painted as the nasty one and lots of people pile in. Try to rise above it and keep posting your little personal pieces and great photographs. OS has great potential to teach Americans about the rest of the world."

Attacks are common. Look:

Emily! Don't listen to the haters - we all love OS...

(so, if you really love the place, Alysa - what have you done lately to keep the quality of the posts up or to make members feel comfortable or to help keep members from leaving or attacking another member or from preventing rates on crappy posts that feature You Tube reposts? How many good people have you befriended and how many good posts that no one have read,  have you read and rated? I dont see any post that has only Alysa rating, but Alysa is usu part of the crowd! And Open Salon is salon, a salon is not about the crowd, it is about a coterie, a writer's/blogger's coterie, with code of behaviour, code of bloggers' ethics, courtesy being the basic standard)  
 
She says that about an OS er whos been here longer than she has!!! And who she does not really read or know that well!!! She assumes he is a "hater" without having taken care to study or research or do any finding out first and they say she is a publisher in her own right....sounds like an excitable, gullible, rather ordinary voice to me.
 
And the long time OS er is forced to respond to defend himself:
I hate being labeled a hater. Is actually voicing legitimate questions, the ones that beg answers that we never receive, hating? I've offered to pay if it would help, and I am poor. I am an OS patriot, although admittedly not an ass kisser. I would rather discuss solutions than bemoan problems ad infinitum...Who knows since no one will tell us?

tr ig

which made me sad and wonder, why did he even bother to respect that impetuous, puerille comment with a response??? But dangerous things are going on on OS as is evident from this comment by another long timer:

I despair you have already lost too many key writers through issues like this and the failure of management to address a more serious problem : people who use OS to destroy others' lives.

Kim Gamble

Tom Cordle too had stopped writing at one point and a few others ....and I had battled then, because I had felt that if we gave up and left, it would not solve the problem, that OS is an international platform and media, and as such belongs to everybody that writes here or reads, and hence ,it is OUR responsibility to fight back to re-instate standards.

About OS Content - Falling Standards? Who Is Responsible?

A long time OS er wrote to me a four days back:

"It seems all anyone talks about here is their dysfunctional childhoods, their failure to get an education, their failed relationships, their failed marriages, their autistic kids, their failed careers, their bankruptcies, their evictions, their foreclosures, their illnesses, and more illnesses, and more illnesses, and more illnesses..."

Recently, there was this post that featured some unique pointers to put the Libyan engagement in perspective. Noticing very few readers or rates, I took it that people might have missed it, so, as is the custom here, I had written in to some OS ers that I knew were interested in serious writing. I had written:

"Since we are always discussing standards falling over here, I would like it if we all got together to read and rate a well researched post when it comes up."

In response, I got half a dozen letters, one writer I used to respect once, wrote this to me:

"... their editorial decisions can't be based on what what you or me or Padraig might think is high quality."

Huh???? 

Are Editors kings and we, the readers and writers, slaves of their whims? 

Editors are just people - like you and me!!! Editors are paid staff. They do not OS make! Their job is to HLEP manage the place so the writers can write in peace and readers get quality content. It is not THIER job to TELL US what is good. We decide what is good and we as consumers ASK for it. If they refuse to listen we CLAMOUR for what we want. For, It is us that supplies free content. Us that read and keep this place alive. And it is our being here that in the long run generate revenue!!!

Revenue not only depends on quality of content, but on the number of subscribers (which is why Kerry posted that update about how many we are here now). Revenue also depends on how many advertisers decide to advertise here. They decide on the basis of what kind of people read the blogs here and how many use the site. If they find it is predominantly local American, they might not want to advertise. Large corporates want INTERNATIONAL views, cross country broad base clientele! 

So, naturally what OS posts on Cover is of crucial importance!!! And WE, as users of this place, must not shirk our responsibility to help the management with appropriate content and suggestions!!!

Any democracy works on that principle - Salon is Media in a democracy - it is imperative that members participate!!! And ENGAGE. And come together in times of CRISIS. If OS is in financial crisis - we engage, in discussing ways to bring in money or improve standards to make it viable ineternationally. Remember competitors are blogging giants like Word Press! 

Anyway, I just cannot fathom why something like a repost of an YouTube song without a word in the post gets a rating of 16 and a well written post does not even make 7 here.

Which advertiser would even want to look at a You Tube repost? So, why would stocks of OS not go down? If OS prices are falling, we the writers and managers of content ARE responsible.Can you deny that?

No matter where or in what capacity you are on the world wide web, CONTENT is KING! Good content comes out of an engaging readership. Readers community that take the trouble to write REAL critique, adding to the value of a post through ASSENT OR DISSENT!  Fighting like school kids or trying to be nice like old grannies.Or being lazy and leave a non committal "Good, rated" does not improve standards or make for a creative or robust writing environment.

I remember how once Mishima (a truly robust voice on OS) had written a post about gay marriage  and I was new then and had engaged in a long and passionate debate countering his view about gay marriage, even taking on a couple of other commenters on that blog, in the end, writing a whole separate blog on the issue of gay marriage and yet Mishima never held a grudge against me personally and heated debate was possible at that time without getting personal or nasty.

Debate, passionate debate is the life blood of the writer's community. It shows someone is reading us closely and that inspires writers to do better!

When I think, I have questions, when I have questions, I want answers, when they do not satisfy me, I contend, and that makes ideating possible and makes it worth the while to be WITH intelligent people. Debate not only enriches the community but it adds layers to the content itself. Otherwise why would one bother?

But here, now, there seems to be an air of fear, everyone is always so boringly conventional and politically correct or naive or banal or quiet....or worse still, DEFENSIVE.

I could not understand WHAT Forsythe's grouse was about various people doing Spam Control on OS - or why Stella had to leave even when she had such fierce supporters and friends here.

When you left, Stella, you empowered the very person that did not deserve to be empowered in that way. Do you realize that?

Preserving the sanctity of the writer's community is the writers' responsibility.

If you quit, give up and leave, you commit the crime of not respecting your own work or your readers' sentiments.

To Stella I would like to ask, was this person you were angry with, your ONLY reader? Was this person your friend? Well, then why did you give this person so much importance over people that genuinely liked your work, read you patiently, took the trouble to comment or give you feedback? They did not matter to you, when you decided to leave this space right? You do not care - do you - about your craft or your readers - or why would you not stay back and fight - you were not alone!

To Mishima this is what I have to say, it is sad that you actually had to write another whole post to clarify your position- you had not done anything wrong - you could have used that time and energy to have done a whole new original post. That you had to write this post reflects badly upon us readers. It shows we are bad readers. Catherine, I respect you and like a lot of people here, am grateful and appreciative of the long hours you put in working for free, but if you had not closed comments when you posted your upset post, the matter could have been clarified right then and there.Mishima is not your enemy and you both have been here for ages and know each other! What kind of example are you setting to the new comers?


Readers are not only careless and indifferent and patronising while reading foreigner's posts, they are also careless with posts  generally. Often a reader will just browse through the last few or the first few lines and dash off a patronising or damaging comment depending on whether they like or dislike the PERSON with no discernible concern for the content. Not everyone blogging here even understand the medium.

Which makes me think that if  the serious writers left, all the robust voices would be gone and there would be nothing left on OS - and a unique, very special blogging site would die an untimely death (e.g. VOX etc). For OS is special.

Open Salon combines blogging with the prowess of community building - in some ways, it is WP and FB combined.

Writers like Mishima, write what they think is right  and  happily, willingly spar with the dissenter  for the sake of  their content - that is part of the charm of reading or engaging with such writers.

Who wants to be with a wall? Or a mop or a sponge?

Stella, I am NOT attacking you, in case you have that idea (why would I?)  all am saying is that this is a community and as such it is our responsibility to see that members remain safe and they do not leave because they feel vulnerable. It is our loss that you are gone. It would be great if you returned to write and fight and be fair to those that did admire you, is what am saying.

Reading or writing is interactive and rewarding when minds can engage in meaningful exchange - otherwise it becomes a dull exercise, passive act and lazy act, like watching TV.

"We the people are fired-up. The air is filled with toxic and hateful speech. Some seem to believe they have an absolute right to say whatever, whenever and wherever they please. They are wrong. "

""Call out the instigators because the revolution's here""

Tom Cordle, had written that, albeit in a different context, but they apply here, nonetheless. Tom, am sad that you no longer listen that well these days....and you used to be the one that had once advocated we all study History!

PS: For those that are interested, I have added Gail Williams' blog for you to go check out her post on the influencers, and how they had a Salon within a Salon kind of a place called The Well. I had discovered this when I had come here and was exploring this place. Then it simply meant that the writers or the coterie needed a private place, so The Well, now, in the light of all that is going on, thought I would remind you of it. So, yes it is possible to have portals leading in but separated from the main OSC.

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Well, hmm. I see where you get your name. I'm not going to try to comment on all my reactions to this. Mostly I would agree, with reservations. I think you have expectations of OS that far exceed reality. But that is admirable, in a way. What I would object to is your public excoriation of Alysa when you obviously don't know anything about her. I thought the hater thing was an incredibly dumb comment, but hardly sufficient to justify your scathing assumptions here. You might try reading her archives before you condemn her. And you're veering close to Stella and the "tenure" issue. Might not want to go there. Or - maybe you do! Rating this with major reservations.
@Mumbles, I did some editing after reading your comment and thanks for that. I can relate to your reservations, so have no issues with that. As for Stella's case, that one is important - my point is - Stella is free to write wherever she chooses to. It is her right to choose where she wants to be. But if she leaves here, leaving a lot of people thinking she had to, bec she had been upset and hurt, bec of the way someone dragged her name through mud and exposed her true identity when she did not want it to be revealed here, then I would, as member of this community want that to be appropriately addressed - not by the Editors but by the members of the community. I am an ordinary reader here and I never deliberately engage with management unless by mistake I end up posting them when am group mailing stuff. No one believes OS is just a blogsite like Eblogger or WP. Everyone here agrees it is a community. So do I. As community, you would agree am sure that members are important. Members need to feel comfortable. Members should not have to leave bec they feel VIOLATED.

I was not here when that happened, I have not been a witness to the event, I only heard the story, therefore, I have to rely on your answers, on your thoughts. Feel free to berate me, come give me a chance to argue it out with you, until am convinced that it is ok to let writers go feeling bad. Even in ordinary homely situations, do you like someone to leave you with a bad feeling in their minds? I don't.

And er..."Well, hmm. I see where you get your name" - not sure what that is supposed to mean. "Rolling"? Comes from an old trekker's adage that says A Rolling Stone Gathers No Moss but Chips Away at the Edges until it Weakens and then Rolls off the Edge Somewhere to Oblivion. Er well I made up the last bit but so what? Everything we do in life is about living well and about nurturing life - even blogging is part of that larger engagement. think philosophically and give me all your thoughts so we understand each other better and have a chance to iron out differences. I could post one good Indian song for every thought of yours in lieu of pennies - how about that?
Padraig, Tom Cordle knows and I had Googled, I always have to Google bec half the things I read here are unfamiliar and foreign ( it shd have been in triple quotes, no?) That letter was from an old timer that has since requested to be taken off "my Clique" :( I was trying to get him to read the minderbinder post :(
I absolutely do not take issue with the view that it is insanely wrong if Stellaa left because she felt threatened. I don't know exactly why she left. Like you, I can only read others' remarks about it. What I meant was that some time ago, there was a rather bitter flame war over Stellaa's claim that one could have "tenure" (and thus, apparently, demand extra respect) based on how long one had been at OS. You missed this, which I forgot, and should have explained.

As for rolling - I was thinking more of the steam version than the non-mossy rock. But not in a bad way!
Mumblety, that was Drew-Silla who brought up the tenure thing, and it's hard to determine how much she meant it and how much she wanted to jam her thumb in people's eye and laugh at the results. I'm guessing it was the latter.
Everything we do in life is about living well and about nurturing life - even blogging is part of that larger engagement.

Your heart is in the right place. But when we enter the blogosphere, one of the first things we discover is that "living well and nurturing life" is not necessarily at the top of everyone's list. Once they are exempted from public disgrace via the anonymity of the web, many bloggers exhibit a kind of cruel streak, wishing only to discredit, to undermine, to humiliate and to hurt others. Entering the world of blogging, we lose our last vestiges of innocence about human nature. We discover true character — and the failure of character — in our fellows.
@ Nana - shoot. Really? There go my credentials as an OS historian. I would have sworn it was Stellaa who originated the idea, and Drew-zilla picked it up and ran with it. But if Drew-zilla wants to take credit for it (does she? and who is she, anyway???), I can't argue the point.
I don't recall Stellaa ever saying it. As I remember, Drew made a comment on a post by 1IM in which she used the word, thus igniting the shitstorm you mention, and she subsequently wrote a post which included it. Whether she wants to take credit for it or not, who knows? She's an odd duck.
Lotta odd ducks here.

I take serious issue with your condemning Alysa, one of the best contributors here and always upbeat.

If you want to partake in choosing and promoting bloggers, have a look at http://open.salon.com/blog/phoenixbobafett/2011/04/08/open_call_-_protest_contest_improving_open_salon_-_gfy_fri
I'm just here to write shit and make out with strippers!

Teeheehee!!

"What kind of example are you setting to the new comers?"

Very bad ones. But look, I wrote a tribute piece of Don Johnson and I've giving up fighting the Spammers, I welcome them now as legit writers especially on the theories of Radical Assumptions of Radium Molecules and its Effects on Universal Thought.

That stuff just blows my mind!! GAWD!!!

By the way, Drew is the Christ and the Anti-Christ, says so on her webpage!

P.S.

What's wrong with posting just YouTube videos? If it get read, then, well, it's the readers' fault, not mine!! PFFFFT!!!

:D

**wanders off into the thorn bushes**
Odd ducks indeed!!!

Wait, how did you find out Mumble and Nana were ducks?

Oh yeah, black cat.....hypnotic eyes, super powers, gotcha!! ;D

~wanders off again~
People callin' people haters, why that's %$#@in' just a @&%-d&@$ed mess o' &@#%!

Tink, what are you wearing right now?
Please tell me you're in your Baskin Robbins outfit.
I am not a duck. I might be a goose. I don't know about Nana.
(I just learned how to do make a *lewd* emoticon the other day and I'm still excited about it)
nana, I already told you, naughty boy, I'm in my undies, the ones that say, ICE CREAM IS FOR LICKIN' COME AND GET SOME!!!

~giggle~

Wink! Wink!

So get yourself over here, I got some ice cream!! Wink! Wink! nudge! Nudge!

MMMMMMM mmmmmmm MMMMMM!! I'M HOT FOR ICE CREAM, AND TEACHERS, AND GUYS NAMED SYNE!!!

Wait, is this thing on? It's not?

Damn camera man!! How are we suppose to make OPEN:THE PORNO without the damn camera on.

HI NANA, what are YOU wearing?

Black tight mini skirt and a tshirt that reads 'COME AND GET SOME....HORN BUSTERS!!!'?

That's HAWT!!! GIGGLE!!
No, Nana is a duck. I could be a wombat, somedays I feel like one. Other times, I feel like a drippy nose cold!!

I like goose too.

I never could do the lewd emo --- mine looks like I have painful hemmroids more than lewd.

Let me try

.(

Damn it, that's POKED MY EYE OUT WITH A TROUT

Okay, last time

>:^P

Woooooo!! Pretty close!! It says I'M NOT LAUGHING AT YOUR SMALL PEEPEE, I'M LAUGHING AT THE JOKE YOU TOLD AT DINNER --- LAST WEEK......I WAS PRETTY HAMMERED!!!

There....:D
Mumblety, thanks for clarifying your species, though you look like a poodle to me. Poodles aren't any good for foie gras. :(

Tink, listen to me and do exactly as I say. Take your left nipple between your right thumb and index finger and twist it counterclockwise while saying "Will that be one scoop or two?" Sorry for being so specific but it's important we get this right.
**Takes his right big toe and twists it while smiling at the camera** I'm a little teapot, short and stout, this is my handle, this is my spout.

Wanna ***BEEP***? I WANNA ***BEEP***!

Jesus I hate the EDITED FOR BROADCAST VERSIONS OF PORN!!!!!!!

Gawd!!!!!
Emiy bleeped that; sexting in comments is against the TOS. OK now, listen, ask me if I "want sprinkles on that" then do the limbo backwards in a pair of split crotch hiking shorts while maintaining eye contact the whole time.
Oh oh, you guys are gonna get rolled...
Damn those TOS!!!!

"Would you like sprinkles with that?"

**SECOND VIOLATION OF THE TERMS OF SERVICE, THIRD VIOLATION AND YOUR ACCOUNT WILL BE DELETED. TINK, YOUR THIRD VIOLATION HAS BEEN DISCOVERED, YOU ALSO HAVE NUMEROUS ACCOUNTS LISTED ---- INCLUDING NAUGHTY GIRL NEEDS LOVE TOO AND WANKPUDDLE BOOM BOOM FUK. YOUR ACCOUNT HAS BEEN REMOVED...THANK YOU AND HAVE A WONDERFUL EVENING**
alrighty then, spring has obviously sprung and someone's not getting enough love...
We'll miss you Tink!!!

:(

Not a lot....cause we'll see you in China in August for the Spam-A-Live reunion!!!
Spring has indeed sprung. I have a patch of prairie plants and grasses in the front yard which I just now burned off, and as usual the neighbors across the street were looking out their windows all freaked out and people were driving by in cars yelling "Your yard's on fire!" Buncha Philistines know nothin' 'bout gardening.

Has Tink really been nuked? It was only a matter of time I guess, especially since the Cheez-Whiz incident.
The Dead Raccoon's tryna throw us off the scent, methinks. Just who is the Roadkill Warrior anyway?
Nana as a slash and burn gardener....naw, I'd never buy that ;)

I have scilla, daffs, crocus, and iris blooming *happy dance*
and a complete and utter mess of a yard that needs hours and hours of grooming *unhappy twitching*
I've been raking and hauling tarps full of last year's leaves and dead plant stalks out of my planting beds for a week now and am nowhere near done. :( But...you have irises already blooming? They must be an early cultivar; mine won't be flowering for another month or more.
these and the scilla (mine are the cultivar "spring beauty") are great for blue color to contrast with the daffs
http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/55246/
Nice blue! I've just got a bunch of the old-fashioned purples and yellows, but now I want that Celtic Dolphin one.
I recently had a troll comment on one of my posts. They don't happen too often. I decided to leave it up and let alone. Of course, I am not that fragile that someone else calling me a loser is going to do me in, I would have died in preschool otherwise. On the other, my decision to leave up had to do with letting an a88hole out himself. There is no better eloquence than your comments. Reading other people's comments and their reactions have informed me greatly of what to think of them as the person writing their posts. I have only once regretted a comment I posted, in that a former blogger here, who held himself in high esteem, continued to attack my character when I critiqued his writing (it's fiction). He liberally left praise mail and hate mail all over the place, and offended most of the women here on many occasions, and a fair amount of men. He accused them of not being real writers, politically correct, and that he was writing from the man's point of view. He was, but he was writing from A man's point of view, which reflected his misogyny rather deeply. My comment wasn't harmful directly, but indirectly, in that it was part of what became a hateful dogpile of him as the day went by. Unfortunately, I couldn't remove mine.
Many people here feel free to use PMs to further "debate" and some mistake debate with fight. We all feel entitled to our own opinion, mistaking our beliefs and emotions for informed opinion. Bating people into an argument is not discussion. If people don't find your work interesting to read, that is ultimately your own responsibility. It could be style, grammar, content, tone, theme, subject, length, clarity. Some great writers here get boring (as I am sure I bore people with my "discussions". Intent is a should, and like other shoulds, are very subjective. If people consistently misread you, you need to reflect on your writing style. Communication takes one person. If you can't communicate to your intended audience, the problem lies with you. Hard words, as it also means we must look at all of our personal interactions. No one owes you listening, a meme from the Landmark Education series, is deeply true. Every time someone listens (or reads), they have chosen to engage. I do wish the editors had a little more variety in their choices, but they pick cover pieces that the average random viewer will find interesting. I also wish we could have a block reader/comment to keep our stalkers at bay.
spring seems to be the only good time for bright blue flowers. :) well, spring and June... which is still kind of spring around here
Wish I could find a bright blue flower for July and August.
Genuinely blue flowers are pretty rare any time of the year. Blue flax is nice, and balloon flower, but they're early summer. I can't think of any late summer blues off the top of my head.
Now I'm reading that balloon flower, some varieties at least, bloom July-August, though the ones I have here are more like June. A lot of them are more purple than blue, however.
yeah, not the same electric blue of the spring ones...oh well, someday the daylily people will hopefully be able to tease that color out. Petunias can be a sort of blue too, but it's not that true deep blue- always more of a red to it.
I have a really tiny yard, so have to keep it to smallish plants. Morning glories are good for larger yards, but in mine one plant manged to not only swallow my plum tree and half kill it, but also smothered most of my tomatoes that year.
anyhow, yeah, I could probably babble about my poor untended yard for hours (instead of getting out there and actually working on it)....sorry Nabina!
I have an iris blooming - a teeny weeny miniature thing, first bloom of the garden. I was going to make a whole post out of it. Haha, Julie, I do resonate with your remark that the rest of your garden is "a complete and utter mess of a yard that needs hours and hours of grooming *unhappy twitching*". Mine comes with an extra blessing: a winter's worth of dog poop. Speaking of which...
How did we stray into garden talk anyway?

Tink, you're a DIRTY DIRTY BASKIN ROBBINS WHORE!
And yeah, about blue flowers. I have color-coded gardens for the three directions (north has nothin' but hostas), but "blue" has to settle for purple...
I'm puzzled that you people to the north of me have irises already blooming. My area is a zone 6 these days but you boreal dwellers are getting the jump on the irises and it's pissing me off. :-|
What about blue hydrangea?
Blue hydrangea is so fake!
Nikko Blue is a great hydrangea but you really need to amend the soil for it to thrive. Just putting a scoop of manure in the backfill won't do it.
It's hard to grow anything on the north side of the house... Three directions of growing, one of deep shade (and steep cliff).
we're talking reticulated iris Nana, you probably got bearded or swamp....you've got the link, buy yourself some this fall, they're cheap

laugh, Myriad, heck yeah, dog poop city here- but I got that covered. I have to or my beloved neighbors call the yard police on me. 3 directions? Wiccan?

Larry, hydrangea will be different colors depending on the acidity of the soil....with my luck they'd be pale pink in this yard
laugh, I need to read the comments before hitting post :D and here I was imagining you out there with full garb and saying prayers in each area
I'm in throw-away clothes, tho mosquito protection not needed yet, and those cries of JESUS FUCKING CHRIST do not constitute prayers...
Canadian pagans are only allowed three directions, given that south points to 'Merika.
Hey, we're rockin' in Rolling's blog...well, it's Saturday night.

But I'm now putting a garbage bag and muzzle on over my throw-away clothes and going to vacuum the crap out of my back porch where I did some demolishing of insulated walls...it's still nice and bright there...then a bath and back to the fray. Keep fraying!
Nana, I'd grow Niko if it actually looked like this http://gurneys.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_13275 but I've learned the hard way not to trust catalog pictures.
Iris are blue, scilla are blue- everything else is kinda half assed. I want color, not crap.
Well, the Pagans who worship The Great Satan do south...
Myriad's a worker not a talker. I don't believe for one second that her garden looks a mess.
CATALOGUES LIE! And you can't trust the little tags on the nursery plants either. This is particularly annoying for those of us with color-coded gardens...
Julie, I'm going out now, to take a picture of my li'l iris...and I'll photograph some of the rest of the garden too (working around the dog poop). Catalogues lie, I don't.

Hey Nan, we can't burn around here - snow isn't all gone and already a burn-ban is on... (I don't burn anyway...oh wait a minute, I've hauled a bunch of old stalks and fallen branches and stuff down to the fire-pit...I just don't set the whole damned garden on fire, tho it sounds like a plan...)
Trusting plant catalogues is as smart as believing the pictures of McDonald's food at the drive-thru window are accurate. Caveat emptor and stuff.
yay, pictures!! I love garden pics
I'd post some too, but my rear is rooted to my computer chair at the moment...maybe tomorrow
We aren't allowed to burn here, except for in a designated area, which is why it's so stressful every time I torch my prairie. It's right next to the street and the flames go whoosh and shoot up ten feet in the air and I always expect a cop to drive by and bust me.
Nana, newbie gardeners are so gullible. I never realized why they called it flower porn.
we need shots of your gardening technique :D
what do you do with it after you burn it?
After burning I just let the rain come and then the flowers and grasses start popping up. Prairie natives like having the old plant growth burned off, prefer it in fact, and the flames kill off woody plants and other invasive species. I'm thinking of doing a post on gardening with native plants; if so I'll include some pics of the fire and the aftermath.
very cool, I hope you do it
I don't completely understand this post but thought it made fascinating reading. So, short of that--what Monsieur said.
be thankful, pc, that your efforts have impressed some as a standard. it comes from being a diligent reporter, rather than a polemicist or mere narcissist.

i thought there was something here worth talking about, but the more i analyzed, the less there was. rather like os, as i think about it.
Al is obviously not a gardener.
Rolling will be back in a while, so I'll say this: she raises some good points here, but something I've learned over the years is that OS is going to be exactly what it is, no matter how much we might wish it were otherwise.
Feel free to continue the gardening talk at http://open.salon.com/blog/myriad/2011/04/09/first_flower_of_spring_here_in_the_sub-arctic
Not sure what can be accomplished by commenting this far into the fluff, but since I'm mentioned several times in this post, I think you deserve a response.

I respect and admire your desire to improve the quality of discourse here on OS. Problem is, that's not the American Way. Kerry brags about the six million as tho' that is an improvement, because to the American mind, bigger is always better.

The aim of OS is numbers, and thus advertising revenue, while you and I and others lament the debasing of the product itself. Warning: We will not win. Contrary to capitalist dogma, quality almost never triumphs in our free-market economy -- quantity almost always does. So mgmt invites the teeming masses to share their recipes, their favorite TC shows, and lingering resentments of their childhoods.

That said, this place wasn't built to satisfy my wants and needs, and it is my responsibility -- not management's -- to find what I want and need here ... or hit the road. At this moment, I have no intention of leaving OS, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if OS left us all -- I don't see how their business model can be sustained.

On a personal note, I'm sorry that you and I disagree over my last post, but to suggest I've suddenly became a poor listener because of that one post seems to be stretching things waaaay too far. I try my best to provide a thoughtful response to all comments on my posts -- but I don't agree just to seem agreeable or make friends or build readership -- I'm here to speak my mind. I confess I sometimes do so with curt or cute responses when trolls return repeatedly after they've made their point.
P.S.

Always remember, you get out of a site what you put in, we mostly put in fertillizer, so we get out pretty flowers!!

Good night!!
wow what a party! did you guys think I was dying? I wd love a warm send off like this - in fact I want my hospice to be an online party like this and I wd be lucky to have Tinkerertink-Nana-Julie- conducting it with Myriad-Raccoon not so dead (you must not be dead bef me) et al joining in. Thank you for keeping it up on the feed all night for me - hope something good comes out of it in the end. I had a good laugh - at the whole show - irony, and all included...
@Tom, "this place wasn't built to satisfy my wants and needs" :) who is it for then? Did the management create this for their private posts, and to have a niche site for their wives to blog on? Whether you are in "Capitalist" or "Socialist" terrain - in the end they all need us - the riffraff, to rule and to sell to. So we do have a choice and a voice. Isn't that why you speak out your mind? If you did not think someone was listening and some change might happen, would you bother to write, Tom? Be honest now. If we are all gone, who they be having then and where would they go to anyway?
@Padraig to Me in a PM:
"Dear Nabina,

Could I give you a friendly word of advice?

You say: “I love this place.”

You say that OS is very important to you and I respect that but you seem to me to be over-intense about it at present....

don’t know if I really buy the idea of an OS community but there are a lot of people here who I get on with. Sometimes they will say things I disagree with and sometimes they will take up with people I don’t like. If one DOES want to be part of a community one has to observe certain rules of etiquette.

Did you see how your post degenerated in to an exchange of fluff by the “community” totally ignoring you? Tom Cordle was one who took you seriously...

Don’t expect so much of OS.

Best wishes,

Padraig"

Padraig, the fluff served to buffer. I remember when we went for rallies, while we sat there on our hunger strikes, we did not talk "serious" - we talked shop - we spent hours playing or staring at the sky - sometimes, what matters is the presence, they were here, they kept this visible all night while I slept and that is what matters. That none of the 'friends' or people that constantly talk about quality bothered to come and vote for the changes shows lack of awareness about such issues as these:

a) International audience means numbers
b) with NUMBERS, comes revenue and improvements to site
c) So, without numbers, or the right sponsors, OS might have no option but to sell out or make this a PAID site
d) Paid blogging might not attract good writers per se

Their not coming here also shows the point Disco Fett is making at his blog, that people here do not look at content, they look at WHO is writing it and vote accordingly. If this post was written by Tom Cordle or Saturn Smith or Old New Lefty, there would hundreds of thousands of "yes, I agree, lets know where to sign" responses :)

As for Tom, no he did not take me seriously, he clearly mentions "since I'm mentioned several times in this post, I think you deserve a response", and NOT bec of the issues I had written about.

I have no ILLUSIONS about OS or people, Padraig, but yes, I DO love this place, it is DIFFERENT and most people genuinely nice. You included. I am not scolding you, merely responding and addressing your concerns that I might have been ignored.

None of these people are my enemies, Padraig, and none of these people have time to waste, if they stayed here all night, it was part of a design and that I have reason to believe, was NOT meant to IGNORE the issues I raised here or DEBASE ME. :)

The friends that did not come to support the issues I raised or even to give it a cursory read, debased me, I think. Bec, if any of these things come through, everyone benefits, if they get money, the site tech improves, the spam gets cut off, the cover improves, their posts stay visible longer etc.
Oryoki, thanks for the visit and your comment. Yes, one can tell a good deal about people from the way they comment or respond to a post.
One of the reasons I enjoy OS, is the variety of people that inhabit the place. I do seek to read different ideas, types of writing here. It is not easy to find but not terribly difficult either. I read you with interest as I do with many, sometimes I rate and comment, sometimes I just read, again a good thing you can do here freely. I read your writing because you are blunt about your thoughts and I enjoy that, it's refreshing. One thing I will say though is I disagree about Alysa S. and the community aspect. Although I disagreed with her and said so on my blog by clarifying the difference in antagonism and questioning she is free to feel that way. It doesn't change the fact I feel she contributes a lot here, supports writers and her writing is always well done. Just my opinion but I felt remiss not to say this. Just as you say, we can all disagree and continue to have a good diverse place here, the best kind. IMHO.
Rita, yes, of course :) Interestingly, Alyssa violated an imp norm of your culture where it is considered rude to call people names outright. Trig did feel hurt, Trig did not provoke, I won't stand there and watch a blogmate be treated that way. I have read Alyssa, I am afraid she would not be that popular in a multicultural, multilingual, complex and culturally highly sophisticated place like India. Indians like voices like Mr Cordle, Padraig, Chicago Guy, Scoubidou - Emmerling would be a star here, Emma Peel or even you. Fun people like Tink, Trig, Nana, who can sway crowds with three words and sheer charm/wit, Saturn Smith, Axel R, FarLeftside, Buffy, Verbal Remedy, Drew Silla when she cares to seriously write, Scupper too on her good days, Owl, Dicea, First Awake, Keiko, even Thoth perhaps. Most of all writers are expected to be artist-like, sensitive. I have no idea how she has supported which writer here, she never has spoken to me but she was a friend of VW. They say in your country something about birds of the same feather ...right? I can be scathingly direct and forthright - yes.
I think Stellaa left because her privacy had been violated, her real name broadcast using OS as a stepping-off point for a www campaign of defamation and slander. Why would you stay ?

Julie if you're around, pm for Blue Leschnaultia seeds ( a W Aus wildflower - hardy & spectacular. )
Kim, I understand, and I wish Bonnie would never do that again and if she did, inadvertently, she would show the grace and generosity of spirit and humaneness to issue public apologies to people that she might have hurt personally, professionally. I wish Stella peace and good fortune ahead. Thank you for your time.
I'm on vacation. What did I miss?

Drew-Silla is a 'they', Nana's first comment gets a woo-hoo, and I vote with the commenters that agree Stellaa left b/c she wanted to, elder-status notwithstanding.

Ok, back to vacation!
I find this post and the comments terribly confusing and sad. It is a reflection of what OS has become -- a jumble of misunderstandings, hurt feelings, anger and resentment. I don't doubt your passion and good intentions Rolling, but Padraig is right about Disco Fett. He is not going to lead the way for the obvious reason that he has alienated most people here.
Yes, Emma Peel, the honchos made sure people lost their way with the point the post was making :) That's what I had meant about people not reading posts carefully. If I had not been a foreigner, maybe they wd have paid better attention to what I was saying, bec what I had to say here is pertinent, logical and doable and would have been good for ALL you that write and read here. It is sad.

And so, Fett, please hurry, let's see another Well before we leave or die, and kindly do NOT engage with the old timers, at this stage, just quietly do your thing, with people that volunteered to support you.

If Fett succeeds, it would:
1) get some money for OS, so they can invest in tech dev
2) get more traffic to posts
3) make archiving easier, indexing possible
4) make it easier to find specific content
5) get good content of universal international interest in one place
I read the post and the comments twice and I'm still confused. Not sure what the "honchos" have to do with that. OS isn't going to get better because there is no money. Most of the people with talent and smarts are long gone and the rest either belong to the circle jerk, don't care, or are just milling about aimlessly. Either way, there is no direction and no real community of artists. As an American site, OS has little interest in pleasing international readers: the vast majority of its users and readers are Americans and that isn't going to change, not with the current content. There is no reason for people to come here without a sense of community since the content (news/entertainment) that is appealing to a broad segment of readers can be found elsewhere.
Gabby Abby, I was wondering where you were, but as they say better late than never, this post was meant to raise three points:
1) We are responsible for maintaining standards here
2) Editors are only just people and cannot always be relied on to take good and correct decisions regarding standards - sometimes readers and consumers need to speak up about what we wsih to have
3) Cover needs to feature content that appeals to International Readers
4) International Readership would generate revenue that they say OS is lacking in as of now.
5) Revenue would mean better tech dev and improved standards
6) And no one shd have to leave bec they feel violated by another member of the community.
7) If they are, then there should at least be a public apology by whoever caused that member to leave. (If defaming was public, apology should also be public. Humanity of a humane enterprise like blog-community should not be allowed to be compromised.
And it is not the Editor's job to do that, it our job, the user's, to do that. Like Mishima said about the Ham Radio groups, they had their own standards, own code of ethics, blogging should be no different.

Editors are paid staff, they come and go. We are members that use this medium, we generate content, we are people that therefore, ought to take that onus ourselves. Not write PMs to the Editors.

Now, are we on the same page? And thanks for the corrections there :)
Emma, wd my answer to Gabby help?
Can we - some of us at least that care about well researched good content - make sure that people like Padraig do not stop writing here bec no one reads or rates his posts? When I had mailed his link, could they not have been there and given the post a cursory read even and rate? It was a good post!!!! He had done a lot of work on it. even though it ws not pro America or even Pro British in its stance. But so what? Info is info, right? Chicago Guy claims he is a great admirer of Padraig, so I sent him the link, he did not even bother to read it !!! Just PMed me saying it cant be on Cover since similar things have been published, and Iwasnt even asking for it to be on Cover, I don't care about the Cover at all! All I had done was requested some people that know Padraig to read that post, that's all

And This post was about why OS stock is falling, and how OS could make some money, by altering the Cover content. Have you noticed all the Indian writers have stopped posting serious content here?
Most of the people with talent and smarts are long gone...

Wait just a darned minute, ep2. I'll put the drivel le Plongeur and elle Sacapenises crank out up against any you can find on the internet any day.
Whirlwind, long as you rate my shit (wh you did not)(bec you came here to fight Emma and forgot ME), and other good shit here, and make sure your drivel appeals to me and my countrymen that are already well versed in the writs of KamaSutra, I welcome your effort and look forward to er your "le Plongeur and elle Sacapenises crank" write soooooon!
Rolling-I guess this question might best be answered by the individual who wrote , and I'm paraphrasing, that all everyone wrote about lately is his/her negative life events. I wonder what makes this a bad thing. I can understand how "Woe is me, woe is me"can get tiring and there is a way to handle that, but I don't understand how a blog about my autistic son is detrimental in any way.

I have addressed the editors several times and once I got a pat on the head and was sent off to play with no response to my real question.

I take no issue with your post. I find your points valid, Rolling. I have no knowledge of The Well, so I guess I don't have the connections I thought I did have.

One more thing I'd like to say.There is much I have learned while on OS. I knew next to nothing about politics before joining OS, and now I have some knowledge about this system that's supposed to be a democracy.I'm certainly not an expert, but at least I know something about the political system. So the potential and value of OS is very important to me.
I usually don't read others' comments, so please excuse any repetition.
R
Junk, there is nothing detrimental about you writing about your autistic son in fact it is beneficial for those that are struggling with autistic children here in India, over at Alaska or anywhere in the world with access to this site. The point we were making is this: Make the Cover a little more appealing to readers that might not be all American.

See, if you write a TV review(Odetteroulette used to do that once upon a time and I never could make sense of it at all even though I liked her) I would not know what you are talking about bec you and I do not get the same feed. We were saying let topics of general interest be on Covers to attract readers, advertisers, and let the sidebars feature internal local stuff. Autism qualifies as a matter of general interest. But repeated issue of how a middle class middle aged American that should have known better anyways recovering from his addiction is not good Cover material worldwide.
Cathartic post, yes? Unfortunately, toxic and hateful speech is "in".

"Revenue not only depends on quality of content, but on the number of subscribers"

Unfortunately, judging from the popularity of reality TV there is an inverse relation to the quality of content and its revenue. Ditto for the quality of content and the number of subscribers.

But rated for fierceness :-)
Eric, thank you, I didn't know that - then are you saying there is no hope for any good thing around here? Depressing.
Thanks for visiting, Rolling. I had hoped my comments on your post wouldn't sound quite so depressing. But as you said, I've been around for a while and my comments were based on what I've seen of OS's evolution. I think Emily has made it a better site than it has been in a while. But the nastiness, cliquishness, and partisanship you spoke of are some of the reasons I took a hiatus. They are not going anywhere. The spam-riddled and abysmally slow infrastructure are added bonuses that keep me at arms length. I am slowly beginning to write more again, not just here but on my blog (which I had before OS). Currently, I'm cross posting but may eventually begin to tailor content for the two.

Again, I didn't mean to depress you. We all have different reasons for writing here, and I suppose we'll continue until the bad outweighs the good. Much of what is published here one can find on average blogs all across the webosphere: personal musings, political ramblings, and a millenial supply of snark. Maybe things are going according to Mother Salon's plans, but my personal belief is that they are either not willing or not able to improve the platform, further restrict membership, and curate blogs with a more critical eye toward the kind of readership/writership you (and some days I) would like to see. On the other hand, the scads of eyeballs this site has attracted combined with whatever ad revenue OS derives may best explain why things are the way they are. This is not an insult, just my opinion. OS always said it existed for writers to have an outlet, and to that end they have succeeded, and I am greatful for the opportunities and readership I developed here. I hope you do visit again. In the sidebar I've linked some of my favorite posts I've written.
Sorry my last comment reads a little funny. It was the response to a comment you posted on my blog. A bit of copy and paste fever :-).
Eric thank you and I understand what you have said to me in your explanation at your blog and here. Please come again and once am organised I shall have more time to attend to reading in ernest.