I actually read as much of that bill as I could stomach Nana.
I almost lost my lunch.

I don't see anyone running who supports anything resembling my interests and the fund raising alone is enough to make me sick as I see this election both rigged and bought.
As the old saying goes...I don't have a dog in this hunt....

Yeah, everything's fine... Just ignore those men in the brown shirts!

What I find so depressing is the number of people who STILL make excuses for him. He's a freakin Rethuglican in sheep's clothing, nothing less!

THOUGHT CRIME IN PROCESS!!!! I'm sorry Nana, it had to be done, if I'm going to be in a detention camp in Bumblefuck Indiana, you're going to be there with me!!!!!! We can braid each others hair, I know, we'll have to wear wigs but hey, it'll be like college, only with orange jump suits!! Hurray!!!

Oooo oooo, more though criminals!! YEA!! Bumblefuck Detention Center #609 will fill up nicely!!

~wanders off~

My theory? Flat line consumables, like the Kardashians and Bridezilla, are the methods by which the weak are being controlled by entities far more sinister than reality TV producers. What is all this crap? Kool Aid and apple sauce for the masses? Meanwhile internment camps are being constructed on the Great Plains...

I'd like to make a citizen's arrest!

SEcond effort - politicos go to dude ranch too.
Depressed Red Mules with long ears are so sad.
Media editors blobs sit atop beast and Fiat cars.
They are lame goats who chew cheap beer cans.
Oops .. .
They whine and groan because peacock defecate.
Bird
poop
on
car
hoods.
Creepy.
Mercedes.
Buy car wash.
Wash behinds.
They wink at`
each others`
deadly crimes.

Post-croak?
ay Oho, Oy!
They wake!
payback day!
It's written!

Tink etc., wander off to read @ Alter/Net News.

Bail-Out Bombshell: FED "Emergency" Banker
Bailout Rescue TOTALED Over $29- TRILLION
`
Bradley Manning - by Glenn Greenwald @ Guardian
Bradley Manning Faces 30- Charges. Some? Death
`
Today I'll visit the Amish neighbors. Wild days Indeed
Momma
Barack
Obama
Beware
Head
For
Hills
`
Tink?
He head
to Halls
We need
Intervention.
Woe unto`
Media creeps
military proxy
killers/murder
No kill by proxy
Give us the truth.
Later? No be jailed.
`
W. Somerset Maugham -
He did summersaults on hill?
He wrote this: ... 'only a fool is
Scornful of the commonplace'`
`
I say:`
`
Bless the normal common folk.
Bless the 99% with 'dunamis'`
a supernatural power to endure.
`
Bless you.

I had occasion to speak to John Adams last night, to get his take on the whole mess.
He said,
“Remember, democracy never lasts long.
It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself.
There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.
It is in vain to say that democracy is less vain, less proud, less selfish, less ambitious,
or less avaricious than aristocracy or monarchy.

It is not true, in fact, and nowhere appears in history.

Those passions are the same in all men, under all forms of simple government,
and when unchecked, produce the same effects of fraud, violence, and cruelty.”(letters to john taylor 1814)

I said, thanks, man, you really cheered me up.
He said, just sayin.

Jeff, who needs Joseph McCarthy when we've got these terrible politicians destroying civil liberties!

@Tink, probably all of us will be shipped off to Indiana to join you in the near future!

You should vote Kim Kardashian to the Oval Office just because she has a great derriere.. then stupidity would make more sense... and she will give America all the rights in the world to be free and beautiful and have millions to spend and live the American dream and marry a super gigantic sportsman or super sexy model who won´t fuck you because they are too perfect and they can´t tire themselves with banalities like taking it from behind... oh wait.. that one happens when the police arrest you just "because" and put in the same cell with a horny rapist...

Carefull with this one... if they (Government) read here and today´s Tink´s you both are going to the can... I can give you some pointers on how to take it from beh.. -clearing throat-

Anyway... Nana, getting a little serius on your opinions. Yes, it is a sad reality we are living on. The people and Governments are growing apart more and more and the Laws that were ment to protect us are being used to "violate" us.... a very sad world...

Much respect and love from Colombia

Rated

Yes, as it happens the Ministry of Truth, and might I add, Fear - is in full swing.

If it's any consolation (and I know it isn't) our country is effing up royally too having recently walked away from international commitments w/ The Kyoto Protocol. And hey, we're expanding and building prisons because violent crime is down. Go figger, eh? ...

"Why can't the Republicans figure out who they want to be president?"
Know what's scary? The "official" process hasn't even started. The SOB's have been going at it for more than 6 months and the first caucus and primary are still almost a month away. The convention isn't until August. And then the campaigns start.
Know what that means? We'll be wallowing in this shit for almost another year!
And in the meantime, nothing will get better either politically or economically.
We are well and truly "effed". Don't you just love "assholitics"?

Thank you for writing this. I'm still shaking with anger that this bill was passed. And the media reported almost nothing about it. Do they not realize that this law means anyone--and I mean anyone of us--could be taken off the street, put into detention, and no one would know why?
Kafkaesque for sure.
Thanks,

Radio host Thom Hartmann was about to interview Glen Greenwald on this yesterday, but it was time to pull over and turn the car radio off.
I do not know the details by reading NDAA 2012 but it is truly terrifying.
Probably just got on another list by commenting.

The word that comes to mind is heinous.
Was.. kinda fun, thinking we lived in a place where
our little votes mattered. Vote 'em out? Then vote IN
who? The next wave of corporate whores dressed in
reformers clothing? Why bother..
What fucks me up though, well many things about this
and these days fuck me up, is.. wondering, why did
THEY (and yes, it's us and THEY now) think THEY
needed a law? Not like THEY haven't already been
doing what THEY just made "legal."
Is it a test to see just exactly how fucking spineless
and, yes, stupid our populace as a whole really is?
Is it the big IN YOUR FACE--- we CAN and WILL
do whatever WE want to any one of you who dare
question? HAHAHAHA... idiots, "elect" whoever
you might... WE can flip them in a hot second. If
good old bribery doesn't work, there's always
threats... very real threats.
America... the concept... is now officially DEAD..

Everything isn't fine, we are still a nation run by corporations and banks and lobbyists. Don't know what else to say.

Glenn Greenwald's last two entries at Big Salon are definitely worth a read once you stop shaking long enough to handle a mouse.

I have nothing further to add as it's already been said here.

Excellent post, my friend.

Three-card monte.

"Go back to bed America, your government is in control.

Here, here's American Gladiators. Watch this and shut up.

Go back to bed America!

Here is American Gladiators, here is 56 channels of it! Watch these pituitary retards bang their fucking skulls together and congratulate you on the living in the land of freedom.

Here you go America - you are free! Free to do what well tell you! You are free to do what we tell you!”
~Bill Hicks

I guarantee that most of those people that are disgusted with our loss of liberty will vote the same old status quo right back into office...

...Yay team!

I fear this bill puts too much power in the hands of one man.

The balance of government has surely tilted toward the legislative branch lately. I'd like to fire the whole bunch.

Rick Perry is hoping to get the chance to make the Supreme Court into a political arena. He doesn't like that they are beholden to none. Too used to buying his way, I guess.

"The simple truth is that, aside from cosmetics, it doesn't really matter who the next president is."

Simple, concise, and correct. I loved your last paragraph too.

Thanks all for your comments. I hope some of our "My Obama, Right or Wrong" folk come by to explain why it's the GOP's fault he's going to sign this bill. What most of the so-called progressives on this site and out there in the media (Chris Matthews anyone?) don't want to acknowledge is that, while the bill originated in Congress, no one's forcing Obama to sign it, and in fact he stated repeatedly that he wouldn't sign it, though for anyone who's closely watched his M.O. the last 3 years it wasn't hard to predict he'd cave, or not cave exactly, but rather just do what he'd planned to do the entire time anyway after a suitable period of faux resistance. This is as straightforward an example of what Barack is really about as one could hope to see, so of course the silence from The Faifhful is deafening.

How can the Apisistas of the country be so delusional as to still support Obama after this? And there's no one (except for maybe 5 or 6 renegades) in congress who can be trusted to stand up to naked fascism. It's a sad era for sure.

How? It's easy; you're talking about people who their entire lives have identified with the Democratic Party, have seen it as the party of progressivism, the party of civil rights, the party that's on the side of the little guy, and so forth. There was once some truth to that, and some vestiges of those traits still remain, but in 2011 going on 2012 anyone who still thinks there are major differences between the Dems and the GOP is either a fool or is lying to themselves.

just forced myself to suffer through a straight hour of "lefty" MSNBC.

Some huge red headed jock saw Sandusky butt-boofing a ten year old in some locker room somewhere in Pennsylvania. Or did he actually SEE? Maybe just heard???

Gingrich and Mitt battle it out in Iowa. Michelle Bachman was "dissed" by the amphibian.
Ron Paul bored the Iowans with talk of being against US involvement in war in Iran.

Etc... spew-gag

Not a word about the traitorous NDAA signed by the great half white hope.

Yep, a major (and bipartisan) blow against the civil liberties of every single U.S. citizen barely makes a ripple in the cable news cycle. Coverage of jock pederasts and Newt's latest fart take precedence over our country's ongoing transformation into a police state. "Oh looky, is that Donald Trump? He's so funny! Thank goodness there's no chance he'll be president..."

Here's a point worth mentioning; there's nothing in the bill that Obama hadn't already asserted he had the right to do anyway. What makes this different is that those assertions, which are at best debatable, are now going to be the law of the land, and as that happens we slide farther down the slippery slope to totalitarianism. But never mind, folks, rock the vote next year and moo your way down to the polling stations, we gotta stop those scary Republicans!

"Coming Soon: The Indefinite Detention of American Citizens
By Matt Taibbi, Rolling Stone
10 December 11


here's some disturbing rhetoric flying around in the debate over the National Defense Authorization Act, which among other things contains passages that a) officially codify the already-accepted practice of indefinite detention of "terrorist" suspects, and b) transfer the responsibility for such detentions exclusively to the military.

The fact that there's been only some muted public uproar about this provision (which, disturbingly enough, is the creature of Wall Street anti-corruption good guy Carl Levin, along with John McCain) is mildly surprising,given what's been going on with the Occupy movement. Protesters in fact should be keenly interested in the potential applications of this provision, which essentially gives the executive branch unlimited powers to indefinitely detain terror suspects without trial.

The really galling thing is that this act specifically envisions American citizens falling under the authority of the bill. One of its supporters, the dependably-unlikeable Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, bragged that the law "basically says … for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield" and that people can be jailed without trial, be they "American citizen or not." New Hampshire Republican Kelly Ayotte reiterated that "America is part of the battlefield."

Officially speaking, of course, the bill only pertains to:

"... a person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners."

Damnnnn

Let's throw a Magna Carta burning party. With enough Wild Turkey to make everyone forget how badly we are fucked. Another example of what happens when the focus is on the expanse of government and not the efficacy. The only reason I think congressional (largely) Republicans are the worse actors in all this, is that they refuse to engage using the age-old tools of reason. Rather, they set up conditions of believability which are rarely more than pure tautology. I'm pouring. You in?

You should read the above mentioned Greenwald if you haven't

http://www.salon.com/2011/12/16/three_myths_about_the_detention_bill/

Stacey, count me in

I'll take a LARGE glass of whiskey and bring a lighter.
Our system is corrupt and the bill is more than enough.
Where, oh where, is all the big 'O' supporters Nana??
No one forced him to sign.
We are so screwed.

"... a person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners."

And it won't be necessary to prove someone is "a part of or substantially related" to al Qaeda and etc,; all it takes is for the executive branch to say it's so and, bang, they're in the pokey for, well, for as long as they want to hold 'em. Forever? Sure, why not, forever is covered under the term "indefinite detention" ain't it?

Pour me a double, Stacey...

You don't think there is any difference between Ron Paul and the rest of the field? http://patriotactvictims.tumblr.com/1

"So why did Obama threaten to veto the bill initially and again after it passed the Senate? Well, one change made by the conference committee was this:

"The Secretary of Defense (strike through "secretary of defense) President may, in consultation with the Secretary of State and the Director of National Intelligence (strike through everything back to the last comma), waive the requirement of paragraph (1) if the Secretary (strike "the Secretary) President submits to Congress a certification in writing that such a waiver is in the national security interests of the United States."

The reference here is to military tribunals. The President – that is, the current one and future ones – need not hand someone over even to a military tribunal if . . . well, if he (or she) chooses not to.

President Obama wanted a bill that limited him in no way, and he is likely to issue a law-altering signing-statement that further removes any offensive limits on absolute tyrannical power. This type of signing statement is another example of something done secretly by Bush, exposed, turned into a temporary scandal, denounced by candidate Obama, then utilized by President Obama, formally established by executive order, and now more or less accepted by everyone as the norm.

This, from OS post by David Swanson, zero rates, zero comments.. upon my discovery

http://open.salon.com/blog/davidswanson/2011/12/16/set_your_doomsday_clock_to_1151_pm

Thanks for the link Winston, I'll check it out. I disagree strongly with Ron Paul on quite a few issues, but I admire him for his stand on others, not least his statements concerning the ongoing erosion of civil liberties which is supported by both parties. He's definitely different from the rest of the GOP field.

Trig; Greenwald and Taibbi should be required reading for anyone who thinks exhibiting diehard loyalty to the Democratic Party somehow equates with being a progressive.

Mission; yes we are.

Trig, I'll check out Swanson's post.

Its a lot easier to sell an anti-democratic law, if a Democrat is the salesman. Just as only Nixon could go to China in terms of Cold War foreign policy, the same thing applies, I suppose, in terms of civil rights violations. Only a Democrat can truly infringe on the Constitution. Even in US history, it was Woodrow Wilson during WW1 who was the most heinous in terms of hurting the Left and anti-war protesters. Same thing with LBJ.

Word.

may i begin with 'i told you so?' i have been playing cassandra for years, and it's a cold and lonely role. so i have awarded myself the itys.

then there is 'you deserve what's coming.' you do, for you have done absolutely nothing to wrest power from the politicians.

nothing personal, n, you and the rest of america are raised the same: "give me your vote, and i will take care of you."

anyone who believes that really does deserve what's coming.

We're all complicit, Al, no question. Except for you, of course, up there in your position of perennial moral superiority. Please refresh my memory and explain what it is exactly you've done to fix things?

I read most of the comments. What next? How do we fix it? I don't see an answer, but maybe someone here does?

We can vote in a whole new House, but we only get to replace 1/3 of the Senate. So then what? The old Senators teach the newbies how things are done and introduce them to the perks. Bingo, we're right back where we started.

The ACLU sues to get these laws overturned, but most people smack down the ACLU for everything they've done to get rights for illegal immigrants.

So really, amidst all the anguish and angst, how do we fix it?

Ron Paul has consistently voted against women's rights, LGBTQ rights, civil rights and human rights. He is a brorn shirt wearing douche.

Just say'in! ;)


Oh, and write in Sanders/Warren in 2012!

That NDAA 2012 is a dangerous bit of legislation. But by itself it doesn't negate all significant differences between the Dems and Repubs. A Repub wouldn't have nominated the likes of Kagan and Sotomayor to the Supreme Court. Stem cell research would still be curtailed. There's be no health care bill, however weakened it turned out. And looking ahead, would you rather have Obama or a Repub handling the situation in Iran?

Phyllis, we can begin by rating this post. ;-)

Truth be told though, I don't pretend to have the answers to your questions. If I did I wouldn't be an under-employed carpenter writing blog posts that might get read by a few hundred people but which will make absolutely no difference in the grand scheme of things. Maybe we should write our representatives and senators? Sure we should, but as we do so we need to bear in mind that they don't give half a rat's ass what we think. The only thing that gets their attention is money and the prospect of losing their job, and since I don't have any money and the only way they'll lose their job is if enough people wake the fuck up and decide to become adult participants in decisions which affect their lives, I'm not sure how effective my letters will be. There's a great book by Sheldon Wolin called Democracy, Inc. which makes a very compelling case that democracy, to the extent that it ever existed in this country, is a thing of the past.

Honestly, I just don't have any answers off the top of my head, but if you (or any other commenter here) have any I'd feel honored if you shared them.

Amy; "Sanders/Warren 2012" works for me.

Abra, I view the HCR bill not so much as weakened but as a giant giveaway to the very for-profit health insurance-medical/industrial complex it was meant to rein in. That aside, we're in agreement, though given the bipartisan consensus that the Bill of Rights is an obsolete document, it's a little hard to take comfort in what I've described in the post and still view as cosmetic differences between the parties.

nana, I don't any more than you do. I just wish that we'd have constructive conversations instead of endless rants. OWS didn't work out. Maybe OS can.

Endless rants? I haven't ranted on my blog for many moons, but even if I had, isn't a rant simply one way among many to begin a conversation? And isn't a giant slap at our civil rights worthy of a rant? In our personal lives we call it "venting," and I think venting can serve as useful a purpose in the bloggy ol' world of OS as it does at home.

Didn't mean to offend. It's just that it's the same comments everywhere I go. It's not just your blog. It's everywhere. Every day a new insult. Every day a new string of invectives. Every day no way to fix it.

And yes, venting is good. I do it often. Then I figure out a way to get past the problem. But I don't see a way past this one and I'm fighting a cold, so I may not have been as tactful as I could have been.

Apologies.

Speaking of conversations, I'll return for a moment to Abrawang's well-reasoned comment. I used the phrase "cosmetic differences" to describe how the two parties differ, but that's only partially true. In some areas the differences can be quite substantive, but still, when everything is factored in and we strip away the euphemisms and half-truths that our national discourse has been reduced to, the main difference is that the GOP wants to reduce us all to serfs under the thrall of a corporate police state, while the Democrats want to do the same thing but at a slightly slower, more cautious pace.

No need for apologies, Phyllis, and I wasn't offended; I was just stating my position. I hope you get over your cold soon.

I got a few answers to the problem, instead of spending multi-generations of money in wars that do nothing for this country except to drain money and lives, why don't we spend some of that dineros into an actual job and economic stimilus plan to get people and this country back on the road instead of spinning our wheels in the mud.

Why don't we spend a few hours drafting a Universal Health Care package that benefits the People instead of the multi-billion(s) dollar corporations we call The Insurance Company?

What the fuck do we do instead? WE NEED A PLAN TO GIVE UP MORE OF OUR RIGHTS, BASIC FREEDOMS THAT MAKE THIS A GREAT LAND!!!

~shaking head~ This country's people need to start a new revolution, where do we start? First thing we start is information, we research and vote in those who at least seem to have a goddamn idea where to start, we vote out the cocksuckers who are now in DC playing games with peoples' lives and line their pockets with gold!!!

Wanna know where to start? We start at the bottom, the people, we get out the vote, The People need to march, find the candidates who want to do the right thing and begin the process of rebuilding this land into what it could be, great!!!

Viva La Revolution!!!!

We're on the same page, Tink. Information is key, there's nothimg more important in fact - the challenge is to get people to stop watching the Kardashians long enough to pay attention to something real. I wonder if Kim would consider becoming the mouthpiece for a grassroots movement to restore democracy?

I don't know, maybe we should ask her? I know she's got a pretty nice ass, so maybe we could see if she'd wear a sign there, to promote the Cause?

~wanders off to write an email~ Dear Kim, how are you? I am fine. It has been awhile hasn't it since we last spoke. Anyways, would you like to help the cause of freedom and wear this sign on your ass?

You would? Awesome!! Thank you and I owe you a six pack and some sauna time!

Your best friend forever,

Bob X. Williams

----

Yes, I know people!! Wooo!! :D

In times like these, the SECOND AMENDMENT is our only defense, and last defense, it may seen. Stokely Carmichael would agree...

Something worth discussing, maybe; in the book I mentioned in a previous comment, Democracy, Inc., the author suggests in his summary that a starting place for those who want to have a say in their own governance is at the local level, in neighborhood and city council meetings, municipal and county elections, etc. If democracy is strengthened locally, who's to say that might not eventually bubble up to the state and national level? I know, I know, that's just craaaazy!

Two signs, Tink, one for her ass and one for her boobs. Also, you say you know people; can you get me a date with Kate Beckinsale?

Rwoo5; yes indeed, and thank you. Us gun-toting progressives gotta stick together. :\

I've been told to start at the local level, work your way up. I'm not sure but I think I might have a chance to become dog catcher here!! It's a start.

:D

"Dear Kate, I have a friend, his name is Nanatehay, which is Napaj for 'Man with Great Big Spear', who would like to go out on a date with ya. I've been on a few dates with him and though he very rarely puts out, when he does, it's like atomic bombs blowing up in your rectum. He's that good. Please call him @ his phone - 1-555-555-5555!!!!! Ask for Tina!! Who will transfer you to Ice Station Zebra where Nana is stationed by the Resistance. Thank you and have a nice day!!"

---

Anything for you my friend!!! :D

Nana,

As you are fully aware, you and I are on the same page with this. The “lesser of two evils” argument is basically obsolete at this point. Those who use that argument to justify their continued support of the status quo are, in my opinion, the source of the problem. We all have a vote. While our votes for president are largely nullified by the electoral system, the truth remains that the status quo is largely a result of the choices we make in the voting booth. It's a choice. That means we can make a different choice, if people get past their myopic two-party perspective, leave behind their indoctrinated fears of breaking from the status quo; just make a different choice. DEMAND a different choice.

I can barely contain my frustration!

Thanks for posting.

its an abomination & reminds me of the alien & sedition acts which are considered another dark, blighted chapter in american history.

Ice Station Zebra sucks in winter I bet..

Watch "The Obama Deception" ( HQ Full length version)

On You Tube

Well put post. I really don't have anything to add. The ideological part of this situation reaches right down to the local level now, and has less to do with the two major political parties than it does with the direct intervention and intimidation by finance capital even in trying to control the political activity of local business owners who are deemed too "liberal" (that is they don't toe the line on austerity, or they dare to think that slave wages might be too harsh on their employees).

Rated.

Between Ron Paul and Bachmann we have the two GOP candidates most interested in the Constitution, two people who are virtually unelectable for all their other reasons. I wonder, should either of them get a chance, which of the rights we have lost in the last ten years would they restore- or would they just go straight for undoing Civil Rights, Roe v Wade, and call it a slam dunk?

I have this image of Obama trying to board a runaway train and being dragged off clinging to the side. He just didn't know enough. He was the pretty choice. I have no idea what Hillary Clinton would do right now, probably the same, but you wouldn't have the same sad sense of the president being completely blindsided by the reality of politics. I'm not an idealist. I like a machine democrat. Obama can't control the machine.

I've spent the last couple of hours looking for copies of the bills, parsing the text, trying to find a loophole. I think it's vague and self-contradictory, and our best hope is that it can be challenged on those grounds. I doubt that Obama could refuse to sign. Who knows what his process is and what inputs he's taken into account. He might well think that not signing would defund the military. Or else he might think, "Well, *I'll* never abuse my power." The really sad part is, he doesn't know what he'll do.

And yes, the Republicans are worse. Differences do not go away because your guy is shockingly not the paragon you thought he was. Maybe my cynicism protects me from disillusion, and make it easier to hold my nose and pick.

Y'all sat pretty much quietly while the bus was driven off the cliff. Now that you're falling through the air, you're all dreading the crash onto the rocks at the bottom.

The reason that none of you are coming up with "solutions" to the problem is simple. There isn't one. It's waaaay too late for anything to come along and save the day. Obama can't do it - the Dems can't do it. The GOP can't do it. No political party, no politician, no political philosophy, NOTHING can get that bus back up on solid ground. NOTHING! You can blame the driver - Obama - but that bus was over the edge before he got behind the wheel. To "elect" another driver at this time will do...... what? Give you somebody new to scream at? Good luck with that!

If you're wise - you're not, I know, but let's pretend you are, - you'll now make preparations for surviving the crash. Your economy is gone. You'll need to know how to live in an agrarian society while you rebuild a workable society. Expect this to take about 150 years or more.

OK, I'll stop there. I KNOW that as soon as I mentioned the time span you'd need to think about, your mind turned off. You've been too thoroughly indoctrinated into the cult of, "I want it NOW".

Well, don't look now, but we're all about to get it NOW!! Boy, are we ever.......
.

I giving up for today and drawing pretty pictures. One I call, HOPE, the other, YOUR MOM'S VAGINA....guess which shows a deep dark hole leading to nowhere?

That's right, Newt Gingrich and President Obama standing next to the Grand Canyon!!

~wanders off for some sleep~

At the risk of sounding simple-minded, why did he sign it? What reason did the White House give? I don't disagree that this is a terrible piece of legislation. I don't get why it was even introduced in the first place, who it benefits and what the full implications are. If this is true , that it "...codifies the arrest and indefinite detention without trial of anyone, including American citizens, anywhere, including on American soil, if the president deems it necessary." what happens next? It applies to each and every American citizen; including whomever drafted it. What's the impetus.



"As the New York Times Editorial today put it: the bill contains “terrible new measures that will make indefinite detention and military trials a permanent part of American law.”

Sorry for that extra paragraph; it shouldn't be there! Please ignore.

Well, as sure as hell can't vote for him now. I can't even 'hold my nose' and do it. Actually, screw the presidential race. We need to throw everything we can at the congressional one. We have to get that Congress out of there. Still. Yesterday, I'm not ashamed to say that I cried because it's so clear we've lost our country.

I like the suggestion that all Politicians be required to wear suits much like NASCAR drivers - so we can see all their Corporate Sponsors! Great post, munchies for thought. R.

Okay, you want a REAL solution to the problem?

Throw out every freakin incumbent and replace them with a Green Party candidate. A 25% win in the House and even winning a few Senate seats will put an end to the incestuous power shared by the right and right lite. Neither would have a filibuster proof majority and they would HAVE to compromise. A Green President would be icing on the cake, even if he was a complete douche. (much like the last few????).

The only REAL solution is to put in place a viable 3rd progressive party to take away the monopoly of the right/right lite.

Well I've already said what I'd like to see happen, considering short of actual physical revolt there's little to be done before then - I'd like to see NO ONE show up at the polls for 'the' 2012 vote. That would present a clear signal, and would be easy enough to do, rather than trying to convince everyone to vote either dem or repub. Just tell everyone to stay home that day.

But then of course we'd have to be prepared to back up that first clear notice of discontent with whatever action was necessary..

However.. let's carry this conspiracy rationale (re Obama plans to sign martial law into effect before he can be unseated in 2012). Suppose this conspiracy theorized 'take over' has been his plan all along? Suppose that is exactly how he plans to clean up American politics? By police state force. Just suppose that he knew coming into office that there would never be a bi-partisan meeting of the minds and that a complete take over was the only way he would accomplish his platform 'planks'? The only question remaining in such a scenario is whether he can be trusted more than any other politician to be benign/benevolent/have the truly best interests of this country at heart..

I will say one thing though about this bill you're talking about. This country fancies itself as freedom loving at heart, no matter our unfortunate history of complacency with the subtle erosion of those freedoms. Every third person is of the mind that when it gets 'that bad' the people will finally take up arms and turn this wallowing oil tanker of a country around. So again, within that scenario.. will we?

What do we define as 'that bad'? Taking up arms won't be enough, not in today's world of global concerns, that's simple common sense.

Once again I find myself in the surprising position of being in near agreement with Sky on this matter. It may simply be too late, not just for the U.S., but for every person on the face of the planet. Those watching are not watching for 'what will happen now' - they're watching to see if the United States can actually be bowed bloody in defeat. If the U.S. can fall there's no question that other less historically 'democratic republic' countries will fall much more easily.

IF the conspiracy theorists are correct, there's already a cadre in place ready to provide global leadership in the event of the collapse of the last country always expected to carry the flag of freedom high.

Rated for if we're going to start down this path let's not mince steps.

Thanks Tink! I promise I'll have her home by midnight.

Yeah Rick, the "lesser of two evils" trope is obsolete at this point. Letting that be our mantra only accelerates the race to the bottom.

VZN; yep.

Yes it does, Trig, and there's penguin shit everywhere.

Thanks for that Larry, I'll get over there and check it out.

Boko says: "The ideological part of this situation reaches right down to the local level now, and has less to do with the two major political parties than it does with the direct intervention and intimidation by finance capital"

As always, Boko, great analysis. I think I used the term "corporate police state" in a comment yesterday, and that seems like as accurate a description as any.

Hi Oryoki. I think they'd just go for the slam dunk. At this point though, I'm not as concerned about hypothetical Republican presidents as I am about our current Democratic one.

I need more coffee...

I agree Sirenita, the Republicans are worse, though it’s worth mentioning that even W never claimed the right to arrest and indefinitely detain any US citizen anywhere based solely on his determination, unsupported by proof, that they are terrorists or terrorist supporters. Regarding paragons, of virtue or anything else, I never thought Obama was one. I did, however, assume he’d roll back some of the more egregious legacies of the Bush era rather than expanding them. Here’s a mental exercise I find useful: imagine the outcry from Democrats if a Republican president signed a bill containing the provisions that are in NDAA 2012.

Sky, you’re the only person who can compete with Al Loomis for Smuggest, Most Self-Righteous Finger Wagger in OS. I’m not sure what makes you think you’re the only person in the room with any insight or intelligence, but your assumptions about what I’m capable or not capable of thinking are laughable. To paraphrase your comment, “Neener neener neener!” To which I reply, “Fuck off, you arrogant blowhard.”

Tink, why would Newt and Obama stand next to Dr. Amy?

That's a character saving twitterism: FOYAB.

Add poison pills and linking conroversial with day to day legislation to the long list of Boehner's promised things he'd do away with. The fact that military funding was the core of this bill, not the offensive rights grab that's gotten all the attention, is what's the sick part. Who wants to go into an election cycle "voting against the troops." We need better rules in the two bodies, a national primary day for federal offices, and a start date for the entire campaign season. We haven't lost the framework to be a country of laws, not men (especially men deciding who's a terrorist).

I've never seen anyone but politicians on a ballot; perhaps it's in the definitions. But we can seek out better ones. Way better.

&*Shrugging*
Face it...this is what the Obamazombies who turned a candidacy into a cult and man iinto their Messiah wanted.
People were more than happy to surrender thinking for themselves and being responsible for thier lives to Obama.
Now people want tyo be considered real, actualized sentient people and the.y don't get that..
You wanted to be zombies.. "poof", you are zombies.
I was screaming about how Obama was not the transcendant being he was made out to be....Nobody wanted to listen.
You got what you voted for..
It is what you wanted.

the arrest and indefinite detention without trial of anyone, including American citizens, anywhere, including on American soil, if the president deems it necessary.

Think about that for a moment.

I did. I do NOT LIKE IT.

I am a good American. Love all that freedom. But sometimes I see a way for others to be freer.
So I say it. and then some people say I am an intransigent insubordinate inciter,
So I shush.


Then I go comment all ee Cummings on art james.

Ha. They cant get me.

I am not an American unless America means land of the bold and free.
Did not Lincoln sayeth;

“Those who deny freedom to others, deserve it not for themselves; and, under a just God, can not long retain it”

You bet yer ass he did. Abe , he a manic depressive like me. ha

Allen Marples; your assumptions about me are as asinine as Sypixie's were. Go fuck yerself, l'il fella, then come back when you're ready to address comments to me rather than your imaginary mental construct of me.

You're right, Stacey; they used the shopworn but always effective ploy of including something on a bill which, if vetoed, would make the prez look bad. Still, if he signed it so as to avoid making himself look bad, he placed his own image above the Bill of Rights and that leaves me a little... concerned.

You and Abe are in good company, James. Thank you, as always, for being a reliably intransigent insubordinate inciter.

Wait, what? Obama's not running as one of the Republican candidates? I guess you learn something new every day.

"even W never claimed the right to arrest and indefinitely detain any US citizen anywhere based solely on his determination, unsupported by proof, that they are terrorists or terrorist supporters"

Bush actually did start that. It's one of the things Obama promised to scrap if he was elected. Now we can hope that SCOTUS will deem it unconstitutional. Maybe that was the plan all along. Obama sees that Congress isn't going to drop it so he drops it on SCOTUS. It's a theory.

It's interesting that the National Defense Authorization Act is passed just as OWS has acquired so much presence. Protests are considered "low-level terrorism".

Agreed. At this point it doesn't much matter who wins the presidency in November 2012.

I, for one, am not giving President Hopey-Changey my vote or a fucking penny, and I'm beyond sick and fucking tired of the Democratic Party hacks' belief that we actual progressives are going to continue to support their right-wing bullshit because we have nowhere else to go.

The Dems' being the slightly lesser of two evils doesn't fucking cut it anymore -- and they might find that out in November 2012, but then, of course, if Obama loses they'll blame us, even though right now they assert that we aren't important enough to even consider.

So long as there be breath in my body, I incite.
I do little but.
I incite myself to distraction, but then an ISSUE COMES ALONG.
THE fate of America, huh?
Argh.
I say, look. Freedom.
When we dig this, we can carve out shit like justice and equality, whatever.


Freedom.

I happen to be free tonight cuz I have eschewed everything that matters to any sane person.
But I am insane. Thank god.
To be free is freeing. It does NOT mean u don’t care.
It means u care but not about the usual shit. You care about beauty.
Yes, beauty.

Dylan:
Things have changed,an emmy grammy winner song.

 “All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie
 You can't win with a losing hand
 If the Bible is right the world will explode



Sure but there is always beauty….


I no care.

yes i do of course i do.

a.north whitehead said "the purpose of the universe
is the creation of beauty"

guy knew einstein. never fuck w/whitehead.

You're busted, Jane. You may as well pack your bags for the nearest FEMA camp. ;-)

The problem with our shithead President is he sees justice and civil rights as too partisan to pursue, that they are "optional" and unnecessary to democracy. His savagery in pursuing truth-telling whistleblowers, his resistance of implementing prison reform to prevent abuse and the at-will murder of terrorists - and anyone around them at the time (even the Mob tries not to kill civilians!) - along with a long, long litany of other abuses makes Obama merely a mask of a Republican Presidency.

And that's what people on the left want, a friendly happy face as opposed to exposing the true ugly one of our continuing misdeeds. Rare is the person who has any idea of the wholesale undermining of society being done on a daily basis. We just plan to wait for it to collapse, act all innocent and surprised and hope that means we then won't have to die. Hella plan, that!

“Fuck off, you arrogant blowhard.”

I have been searching for a handy, all-purpose response that I can use when I am in a hurry and can't come up with other stuff. Would you mind if I borrowed this?

With you, and Greenwald, completely. Neither party represents my interests. There is nothing for me in this sad caricature of democracy. And as a teacher reliant on a fingerprint clearance card, I am morbidly aware of how little it would take (one visit, in solidarity, to an Occupy meeting?) for me to lose my card and my job. I'm the sole support of a family of four--it is too much to risk.

You're of course free to use that, Margaret, and also my response to Allen Marples or whoever which reads "Go fuck yerself, l'il fella." I pride myself on both rudeness and a willingness to use the word fuck, which by the way is a very fine Anglo-Saxon word of impeccable heritage. Sorta like my ancestors, and a fine fuckin' lot of good it's done me. Maybe it's the Celtic blood that's drug me down...

Woah. "Drug me down" is so grammatically incorrect in so many ways that I'm now freaking out. Harry, Snippy, I must recoalesce my thought processes (with a Limey accent on the final syllable or maybe the next to the last syllable of that phrase) before I reply further. Or "Furthur" perhaps, because I watched a documentary the other day about Ken Kesey and that magic bus of his that led up to The Electric Kool-aid Acid Test, it was amazing, the documentarians had all the footage from 1964 when Kesey and the Pranksters drove from La Honda to NYC doing very strong hallucinogenic drugs the entire time.

The bill, & snippy's comment, make me not want to visit you anymore, much.
Read you, fine. Watch your movies, fine. Listen to your music, thanks.
Visit ? Wild horses, nan. Wild Horses.
Like snippy says, too much to risk.
I don't care what the fishing's like. Too much to risk.

Drug down by Celtic blood? Wasn't William Wallace a Celt? Where's your pride, man?

Obama: Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor
George W. Bush: John Roberts and Samuel Alito
Bill Clinton: Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Stephen Breyer
George H.W. Bush: David Souter and Clarence Thomas
Ronald Reagan: Sandra Day O'Conner, Antonin Scalia and Anthony Kennedy; William Rehnquist (appointed to the bench by Nixon) reassigned as chief justice

Only Souter was a dark horse, and O'Connor evolved a bit. The other Republican appointments have been long-lasting poison pills left behind by right wing Republican presidents to wreak havoc on basic constitutional guarantees for individuals while expanding corporate power.

The next retirees are likely to be Ginsburg, Breyer and Scalia. Y'all can talk about refusing to vote for anyone and showing your displeasure. Fine. While you sulk, Newt Gingrich will appoint the justices who will decide the constitutional legitimacy of this law, assuming that future versions of this funding law contain these provisions. Presumably this Act of 2012 will be superseded by the one for 2013. Will it be better or worse? I don't want the right wing intellectual lightweights likely to be appointed by a Republican president to be the ones deciding the legality of detaining American citizens. In Hamdan v. Rumsfield, Scalia, Thomas and Alito voted in favor of military tribunals. Next time, Roberts will be able to join in. Kennedy can't be trusted.

SCOTUS has the final word. If Obama does nothing but rape virgins until the end of his second term, I want him appointing the justices who will decide these questions for the next 20 years.

Kim, if I was someone with an interest in democracy as a concept (as opposed to a functioning political system), I'd visit the 'States and lay a wreath on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. In a similar fashion, people go to the Acropolis in Athens because it's the place where democracy, per se, was born. There's a direct link between Periclean Athens and North America circa 1775, though it seems that link is now in the process of being erased. The Greeks held out against Xerxes. Bastogne in '44 was our Thermoplyae, but we apparently don't have a plan to deal with enemies from within.

There are people from earlier in this thread, Margaret for instance, and Odetteroulette (Odette posted about this topic long before I did) and Amy and Songbird and Seer, and others more recently, Bleue (two days, beautiful) and James and Harry and Phyllis and Snippy (I fucking LOVE Snippy) and Rick (Rick Lucke by the way for those who aren't aren't aware of it is one of the more intelligent, civilized persons in OS) who I need to reply to.


What were we talking about again?

Oh yeah, the Scythians.

They drank their wine completely UNWATERED and threw bales of cannabis on bonfires then gathered around and sniffed it under a blanket. And they were headhunters!

Sirenita; I love you, straight up. You're right about the SCOTUS - the judicial branch is in some ways more powerful than the executive and legislative branches combined, and I fervently hope the GOP appointees die very soon. None of that in any way makes me less disgusted with a president who, with one stroke of his pen, will rip a giant hole in the Bill of Rights.

I know, nana. How about I lend you my clothes pin for your nose if you promise to help keep Newt out of office? Maybe I can share my many bottles of post-surgical opiates with you, too. Being a druggie degenerate makes the world a brighter place.

Ah, baby, you had me at "Let's off Antonin Scalia then go shoot up some liquid valium."

Thanks nan.
Love to Bleue.
I have a best mate in Chicago ~ I will get there, & track you down, & show you how we spear fish. When things settle.

I wonder if the Secret Service is reading this thread? If they are I'll say when they come to my door "That woman led me on, she wanted to kill Supreme Court Justices and she was unstoppable in her bloodlust!"

Kim, if you do make it to this continent I will never forgive you if you don't look me up. Seriously, if you do that I will hunt you down and murder you in the same way Sirenita has vowed to do with Clarence Thomas. I don't know how to put it in a more polite way. We need, all of us, to go to the Colorado Plateau and live like our ancestors did on jackrabbits and bits of cactus and so forth. There are fourteen kinds of meat in a dead snapping turtle.

Maybe that turtle would not have died if he hadn't eaten so much meat. But I'm in. I'll need to hide out after Scalia's date with destiny.

@Sirenita : How you doin ?;-)

You can hide out in my basement Sirenita. I'll hide out there with you 'til the wrath of the turtles has passsed. You and I will single or multiply handedly change the course of American jurisprudence. Yes, the media will initially view us as assassins, but history will recognize us as saviors OF OUR NATION.

"multiply handedly" is so wrong, somehow.

@ Sirenita ~ How you doin' ?

Fuck off Kim.

That's the third time on this thread I've had to use such phraseology, yet this is the first time I've really meant it. Go assassinate your own high court justices, motherfucker.

Trouble is, I say Sirenita, how you doin' & she says "Fine," I'm not sure what to say after that. That right there is my main issue.

Sorry, you were talking. Go ahead.

Sirenita is, by definition, very fine indeed. Please come to North America so I can murder you. I mean that in the nicest way possible and you'll hopefully visit Romantic Poetess or maybe Rita (briefly) before you die.

I wanted to see Disneyland, I didn't want to alter the course of history.

Disneyland is one tiny corner of Los Angeles, and, stretching a bit here but since you seem Disney-focused that's OK maybe, Disneyworld is a tiny corner of northern Florida - these are the sights you want to see when you come to America? You, sir, sicken me. Stay the fuck away from Rita and if Marjie says the word I'll end your existence. Oh yeah, I know about the barramundi so save your excuses for someone else.

nanatehay. If Sirenita etc., can get bunks in your basement, I hope Crazy Jane don't bring FEMA's bishop. He'll gulp all the Honey Moon Wine Stock Reserve.
Ca we all be bunked?
I'll request top-bunk.
`
WHO MAKES THESE CHANGES - Rumi
`
Who makes these changes?
I shoot an arrow right.
IT lands to the left.
I ride after a deer,
and chased by hog.
I plot to what I want
and end up in prison.
I dig pits to trap others
and fall in the pit I dug.
I should be suspicious
of what I want. - Rumi
`
We learn from comments. If we delete comments (generally) we are not advocating democracy.
I really resent hypocrites.
Literally- 'actor' on stage.
I sense good civic critique.
I'm just saying, Thank You.
`
I was two-months (hear/here he goes rambling again) in the VAMC when Barack Obama was the candidate. When the DEMS had their hoopla ... I was in intensive care (ICU). My heart-chest beeper was beeping. I'd hear`
`
"Breathe!" 'I am`
breathing! Stop!
I said that I am breathing and pleas stop waking me up! My calm "meditation" was?
`
I was slipping away.
I was way `beyond`
as in 'slipping offs`
as in half-alive or`
I was half-dead too.
My inner-thought?
I was ripped back?
A Spirit is yanked!
`
I can't explain what I remember experiencing while in DC's VAMC. I now I almost died.
My heart was stopped.
I was hooked to a machine.
I loved Sirenita's ideas etc.,
`
I never liked when Barack Obama said with a manufactured voice: "WE will hunt down al- fellow Human Beings and kill them to make Americans safe." I didn't vote.
I was released from the hospital.
Then - I had to come back `gin.

I was there the morning Barack Obama was elected. The hospital employees etc., were as happy as if they were wearing new silken underpants. Many wore baseball caps and B.O. For CHANGE Logo.
`
I bought the Washington Post. They sold newspapers that morning. The massive heap of newsprint was many times Bigger that day. I thought - What a huge Bundle. Oy, how many trees were chopped? Many do now feel betrayed. When I get a chance to respond to the question`
`
How are we doing [in the white house]? I think? "Maybe we can talk at Waffle House?"
`
I say: "do what is right."
I would not want the job.
I'd read old BC literature?
Read farmer Amos B.C.?
That's a minor prophet.
BC is before computers.
I must know when to hush?
We do have a duty to Speak.
I know B.O. and Michelle O`
Do need citizens to Speak Up.
`
We should not Fear? Speak.
I know there are Big Goons.
Cops etc., can be 'Lil Ghouls.
`
I gotta attend one last farm market.
I's gonna browse Persian (Iran/Iraq)
Poet Rumi. ( The Bread Baker Etc.,)
Breadmaker? Why Wine is Forbidden?
Human nature is full of folly-generally.
Thanks for daring to bring this dialogue.
Nanatehat/hay? Keep Speaking. It's duty.
There is an unruly Mob Gathering. Anger.
It;s wise to be civil. Speak gently. Quell.
MOBs become greatly berserk. Chaos.
I sense there will be ugly -out-of-Order.
I know sometimes I go on/on. Be Alive.
I wanted to thank civil thinkers. Thanks.

He Manning Trial comes to my memory.
skip the part about my groans in a VAMC.
The Kimbrough Army Hospital memory?

I was there (Bradley Manning) in 1970.
Code Blue. I was tempted to revisit.
I heard there was a pro- Peace group.

I think it's important that these lines of communication stay open, is the main thing. Like with Kim Jong Il ( no relation, but he likes Looking At Things too.)
I didn't know about Florida.
Rita

Will fly

into my arms

& so will Margaret though

she has issues.

Damn, here's Art. This is a serious post & here I was banging on about women & Disneyland.

This post was serious when I wrote it a couple mornings ago at 5AM when I was barely coherent yet seriously pissed off.

Every comment from Art James(Rumi?), I view as a blessing. I love the man if that's acceptable to say. If it isn't, fuck off.

You seem well-acquainted with Marjie's issues. Given that we're discussing this on the Internet, a.k.a. the World Wide Web, what are they exactly? I've always suspected that Ohioans prolly shouldn't be trusted but maybe that's because an Ohioan killed my father. Freud? Jung? Thoughts?

"Breathe!" 'I am`
breathing! Stop!
I said that I am breathing and pleas stop waking me up! My calm "meditation" was?



Yep.

Nanatehay. No blurt everything we think on the World Wide blogosphere.
Oh, a hearty burp?
Burp a,b,c backward?
A fool blurts out burp?
smiles . . . beware too.
`
If you ever wish to farm?
I an getting lamer each day.
I sing `old Mcdonald had a:
farm - e,i,e,i, o. Moo cows?
`
The neighbors give cows now rest.
I had yogurt with frozen berries.
Milk cow once per day. no hormone.

Clear Spring Creamery milks 'humanely'
.
www.clearspringcreamery.com / Moo.

Green grass - probiotic - Live cultures.

Yogurt with honey from green grass fed.

Miracle - Life is a Miracle - Wendell Berry.

smile . . .
I'm speechless
keep speaking

This morning right before 7am, something woke me. Like an insect had flown into the room, a dread.
I just happened upon this thread.
To Kim:

L'anno del mai e il mese del poi

(The year of never and the month of then)

Probably about the same time you arrive in the USA.

@rita, didnt know ya knew Frog!
or is that eye-talian?
O what fun we have here!
Rough and tumble. I picture a rolling hill. Fulla flowers, the pretty kind.
OS-ers flipflopping head over tail down the decline.
Art squatting like a magnificent, uh, squatting turtle, if ya can picture it,
Quoting Roomy:
“I am so happy, I cannot be contained in the world;
But like a spirit, I am hidden from the eyes of the world.
If the foot of the trees were not tied to earth, they would be pursuing me;
For I have blossomed so much, I am the envy of the gardens.
 Divan 1740:1-3,
I digging a hole, a big one. Getting cable tv down there.

@rita
Oops. It WAS eye-talian. Here is another:

Quanno pisceno le galline
When hens piss (Roman dialect)

Here is some Frog:
“Quand les poules auront des dents
When chicken have teeth

Thank you James, for the extra venom.

James: You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Then who the fuck else you talkin' to? You talkin' to me? Well, I'm the only one here so I dunno. Who the fuck you think you're talkin' to?

Oh, you're talkin' to Rita. Never mind.

Hi, Rita.

Hi, Art.

Is there really such a thing as humane dairy products?

An Ohioan killed your father ... ?

Margaret's issues : alphabetically ?

A. anal
B. bottom
C. colon
D. diaper
E. ecoli
F. guess
G. giardia
H. herpes
I. infect
J. jam, juan
K. guess again
L. lobotomy
M.menopause
N. nurse
O. vary
P. pretty much constantly
Q.uinn
R. rabbit
S. sloth
T. torpor, turgid
U. know you want it
V. asectomy
W.wasted, wanton, worn-out, weary, why, when, what for, etc
X. pire
Y. because we like you !
Z. almost immediately

Nana, Kim, your ability to post witty comment after witty comment now in your 60th hour with no sleep awes the fuck out of me. What's more, I praise the DOD for its research on stimulants, without which we might keep normal hours.

Kim, yer mighty fine yer own self. Nana, I love ya like a brother. Actually, my brothers were fucking psychos. Which is why.

All dairy products are capable of inhumanity. You there's this enzyme, lactase, see? If you are one of the unfortunates who lack this enzyme, dairy products will be cruel to you. Their atrocities may include intestinal cramping, farting and diarrhea. Your community, your employer, even your own family, might reject you if you are a victim of dairy products. Stamp out dairy products now! Well, leave the ice cream and the cheese. I'll deal with them myself. Carry on with the political commentary.

Finally some sense around here.
This is after all about someone called Bill. Or is this still the one about Tink ? There's no way Bill is Tink, is there ?
Why doesn't Emily get more of a grip ?
Sirenita, you know Emily's vegan ? She works out of an office here because Australia like China, like most of East Asia, has no dairy products at all, unless you count Margaret.
The whole place runs on seaweed & tofu. Yes it's annoying.
I buy my cheese from a guy who does the fast-boat thing from New Zealand. How I make my coffee white is nobody else's business.

We have a clause in the Constitution about the fundamental right to milk in your coffee. Fast boats are good, especially in pirate infested waters. There, I said it. Pirate. What now? Would you like our vegans? We had a vegan restaurant here in San Francisco. It was called "Cafe Gratitude." It was just as pill-like as the name implies. They went out of business. I put them on a boat (slow) to China

S: I know your street cred but I warn you : Be Afraid. Be Very Afraid.

Apparently it's ok to eat vegans.

Hey rita, how you doin ?;-) Want me to do your alphabet ?

Well look who's out and about, doin' the late-night (s)troll. It's Dr. Seuss! Or maybe Big Bird. Or is it Michael Jackson?

ABC.
Easy as 123
Or simple as
Do re mi

You you you, ignorant, devious, underhanded, miserable little...

Wait a minute, wait a minute, I've got the perfect all-purpose line and I've been looking forward to using it...

“Fuck off, you arrogant blowhard.”

I meant that in the nicest possible way!

I know, & I appreciate that ~ in the spirit of the season & out of concern for all the little kiddies who read nanate's political posts let's come out from behind all this mudslinging & innuendo & let's all hold hands & sing carols & smile a little mistily at each other & let bygones be bygones & then let's open a bon-bon & promise we'll never ever use rude words again.

If that is what passes for an apology, might I remind you of letters A - L in your delightfully incendiary characterization of me:

A. anal
B. bottom
C. colon
D. diaper
E. ecoli
F. guess
G. giardia
H. herpes
I. infect
J. jam, juan
K. guess again
L. lobotomy

And if you think you can dismiss all that went before with an airy "let's let bygones be bygones " let me remind you of letters M-Z:

M.menopause
N. nurse
O. vary
P. pretty much constantly
Q.uinn
R. rabbit
S. sloth
T. torpor, turgid
U. know you want it
V. asectomy
W.wasted, wanton, worn-out, weary, why, when, what for, etc
X. pire
Y. because we like you !
Z. almost immediately

Now I'm going to gather together all the little kiddies who read "nanate's" political posts and they're going to join me in shouting at the top of our lungs,

“FUCK OFF, YOU ARROGANT BLOWHARD!”

And again, kiddies:

“FUCK OFF, YOU ARROGANT BLOWHARD!”

One more time, with feeling:

“FUCK!!! OFF!!! YOU!!! ARROGANT!!!! BLOWHARD!!!”

Thanks kids; now let's go outside to the bonfire and roast marshmallows, then burn Mr. Gamble's books.

Well, you know how I feel about you too, magpie, & I appreciate you reaching out to me like this ... I just thought maybe this season we could put a little distance between ourselves & the kids, is all.
For their sakes. Maybe we could head up to a cabin or somewhere, you know ?
The kids are fine. They can handle the lights & the pudding & the glass-of-milk thing ~ they won't even notice we're gone.
After I've covered your body under pine-cones & snow they won't even notice you've gone either.
I'll say you've ducked down to the shops for some cookies, or something.
And you got hit by a truck.

magpie :

A. amazing
B. beautiful
C. charming
D. dear
E. elevator, button stuck ( remember ? ;-)
F. frontal
G. glow
H. harry
I. inimitable
J. jocularity, jam, juan
K. how you doin ?
L. love
M. mortgage
N. never say never
O. pen
P. retty ...... damn good
Q. uaint
R. recipe for latke
S. mart
T. rific
U. nusual
V. almost ~ you'd hardly notice
W. worth it
X. citing
Y. because she's worth it
Z. zulu natal, watching the sunset across the lake

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

In amongst the nonstop, stomach-turning spate of ads designed to make you spend money this Christmas on shit neither you nor anybody else needs, is the Barack Obama Chia Head commercial. For those who weren't around back in the Golden Age of Tacky Advertising, Chia Pets were these terra-cotta-or -something planters in the shape of cats and snails and etc. with bean sprouts on them and if you added water the little sprouts would pop up and look vaguely like the animal in question before they died. If, like me, you've been jonesing for a Chia ad that would top the fabled ones of yore, you can now as of Dec. 2011 purchase, for $19.99 (plus shipping and handling), a terra cotta Obama Head and , within a couple days, Hope, Change, and Liberty will sprout and then die as quickly as ever they blossomed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJrRr6vvRa4

Could the metaphor be more wicked if I'd made it up off the top of my head? It seems unlikely.

I love you guys.

Sirenita; as usual, it saddens me to have to warn people about other people who comment on my blog, but Kim's waters are particularly infested. Though I hate to say it, a little bilge-walloping followed by an astringent regimen of barnacle-scuppering on his part is probably in order, and if one wished to do more than have a cup of coffee with the man I recommend preemptive broadsides of azithromycin, cefixime, and metronidazole.

Uh-huh-uh-huh uh-huh: I said broad sides.

Rita; there's no need for anyone to be afeared. Common sense coupled with good antibiotics can go a long way.

Marjie.

Marjie, Marjie, Marjie.

I have to ask, and I refuse to be put off yet again (and I know I'm not the only one wondering this with a hefty dose of vicarious prurience), have you and Juan dotted the Ts yet?

:-)...

Also:

DID YOU JUST CALL ME AN ARROGANT BLOWHARD?

I'm assuming you meant that in the nicest way possible. :\

Kim; it's a given, I hope, just between you and I and seeing that we're friends and all, that when I mentioned "murdering" you a couple days ago I was speaking allegorically. Fuck off, you book-illustrating cocksucker.

Oh god what is worse Kim Gamble reaming someone out or Kim Gamble pandering?
ugh.
"frontal"? really? like lobotomy or full?

PS does that mean I should cancel the ChiaObama? it was an impulse buy. frown emoticon.

Kim, what am I supposed to say to that comment? Tell me. You're making me crazy. I'm going to become a rapper, Cray-Z, like Jay-Z. See, see what you're doing to me? You're not playing by the rules! You can't be both the good cop and the bad cop. It throws the whole thing off. First you want to bury me in the woods, then you go and say those...other things. It's like Fargo meets Sleepless In Seattle.

Nana.

Nana, Nana, Nana.

You ask about Juan and I. Me and Juan.

Well, as far as dotting Ts, crossing our eyes and minding each other's peas and cues, that's kind of personal but if you must know.

I've never met the guy. He doesn't know I exist. We could pass each other on mules and one would never notice the other.

But that's just a minor obstacle! Right?

I forgot Juan and me and I and Juan.

While magpie was getting her grammar together I wandered off to read a bit of Boko & DuNuccio, a bit of Pitman & Joanne ...

Had fun, nan ?
Sorry about the mess on the floor & the dishes piled up in the sink, just that while you were "away" no-one felt like taking responsibility for the joint ~ Margaret in particular is so not into mopping ( like Tink used to be.) Still, if the kittens & the cacti survived "that's the main thing," as Aunty Jean said.

Rita you can't tell me you've forgotten the full frontal already ?
Grif did a post on the Chia's. Worth reading for my comment alone.

Maggles,
Them ole rules, eh ?;-) Getcha motor runnin', burn out on the highway ~ lookin' for adventure or whatever comes our way Yeah God I'm gonna make it happen Take the world in a love embrace Fire all of my guns at once & Explode into space

I meant every word.

Ron Paul is the only honest guy in the election, and if there was almost anyone else who was honest, I would vote for them before I would vote for Paul, but Paul is the only person (as far as I can tell) who loves his country more than he loves the streams of corporate money for which all the others so willingly get out the knee pads and suck dick.

I think his economic policies are ridiculous, and I don't think the country is ready for Libertarianism, but in spite of all of that, I am 99% sure, if given the chance, I will be voting for Ron Paul this election because he has the one thing all the other candidates don't - his word. Right now, that's more than good enough for me.

OH YEAH - I just wanted to stop by and say Merry Christmas, and then you got me all wrapped up in shit...so, Merry Christmas.

Ron Paul honest? What about all that crap in his newsletters that he can't address head-on? Just weasels around...

nan, and phyll, i've done what i could think to do: i wrote "democracy, and revolution," and showed you a path toward democracy. you won't follow it, it's too long to accomplish, it won't work, it's too much effort, no one else will join me, i might look foolish when i tell people what i'm doing, did i miss any excuses?

if you won't take the first step, because victory is not assured before next payday, and you haven't any alternative to offer, then cry 'those bastid politicians' all you want, but the weak link is a little closer to home.

Happy New Year from nana's place!

Kim, Rita, Marjie; Happy holidays, and thank God the holidays are over, eh? It's worth reiterating that I only wanted to kill Kim metaphorically.

Al, I asked you a serious question and the best you could come up with was "I've said some stuff and that makes me better than you." How very weak a reply that is, and what a sorry little hypocrite you are.

Malcolm - Ron Paul? Seriously? I thought you had more sense than that.

Myriad; word.

Bleue: I miss you. :(

IMPORTANT NOTE: I just ate a chili dog with no dog in it. God help me, there's no going back now.

Democracy Inc and Sheldon Wolin's description of our political system being inverted totalitarianism is very accurate.

As far as Obama, he has done things no Repug would have gotten away with. Everything from a health care bill that was a corporate giveaway; to cutting the payroll tax which is a giant step towards privatization of social security (something GW Bush wanted but couldn't accomplish); to another aggressive invasion (Libya) - you think McCain could have gotten away with that with full Democrat support - I don't think so; to inaction on global warming; to continued corporate welfare; to NDAA; and on and on and on.

BUTb Alaska Progressive, there remain idiots amongst us who STILL claim that obamamaniac is a "good and decent man!"


-R-

Alaska, when I first read Democracy, Inc. several years ago I was a little skeptical of some of Wolin's conclusions, but that's no longer the case. If anything, he was slightly behind the curve in describing the end of democracy in this country. And yeah, the very people who back Obama so fervently would be screaming to high heaven if the things he's done had been done by a Republican. Loyalty to one's preferred party even when that loyalty empowers destruction of our civil rights and economic well-being is pure idiocy.

Very true, Mark. If one goes off of Obama's words, he is indeed a good and decent man, but his actions tell a different story. Words vs. actions; you'd think that by now more people would be able to separate the two.

Right now, I'm for anyone who is not a corporate whore and viable. Paul is the only person who fits the bill (HE CAME OUT AGAINST CORN SUBSIDIES BEFORE THE IOWA PRIMARY...that takes some friggin' balls).

Find me anyone else who also fits the bill (and, it would be particularly helpful if they had as strong an anti-invasion war stance as Paul did) and I will look into them and likely switch from Paul to whoever they are.

I don't see anyone else who is even semi-viable who fits the bill, though.

He ain't my 1st choice (nor my 2nd through 10th choice), but he's my only choice when viewing the field from which I can vote (and have a shot at the person winning).

If he doesn't win the GOP nod, I'm either going to abstain from voting, or look into 3rd party candidates who might be viable in 2016 and vote for one of them in the hopes my vote puts them over the top for the numbers they need to get federal funding in that election.

Other than that, I don't know what to do. I ain't voting for Obama again, that's for damn sure.

You must seri'arsely get these two guys to change their names from Mitt and Newt. How about Tarquin or some of these
http://www.b3ta.com/features/realnames/

Imagine what other countries will make of it? You poor ex-colonials.

Well, I suppose the subject of this post was bound to make the comments wander all over the place. Congratulations on some interesting threads!

It might be interesting to recall that FDR initiated the action to register and then inter all of "Japanese ancestry to any degree" who were living in the three West Coast States by one Executive Order (actually two. . but who's counting?).

These orders were turned into military directives and a War Relocation entity was subsequently established with a civilian staff. Over 100,000 Japanese were interred in a matter of weeks outside California, Oregon, and Washington. All of this happened while these families sold, or donated, all of their wordly goods, registered, and moved to temporary facilities on fairgrounds and racetracks while waiting for the permanent camps to be built.

Very little legislation was involved in this matter. The Executive Orders were recinded as soon as the USSC started deciding related cases against the government. What remains of some of the camps are tourist stops today.

The story about Abraham Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus during the Civil War is even more stark.

So you read the comment thread? Yikes! Things get a little weird around here in the wee hours...

You're right that this isn't the first time civil rights have been undermined in the face of a perceived threat. I guess the point of this post was to discuss the way many on the left are willing to give a free pass to things that, if done by the "other" side, would have them up in arms. As I think was mentioned somewhere in the thread, if George W. Bush had signed a bill like NDAA 2012 there would have been a huge outcry from the very same people who barely made a peep when Obama signed it.

Thanks for the suggestion, Creeky. I think they should ALL be called Tarquin, maybe with a number to designate which one we mean; Tarquin1, Tarquin 5, etc. "Tarquin6 dropped out of the race today while, in the latest polling, Tarquin2 is surging in the polls in S. Carolina even as Tarquin4 was endorsed this afternoon at a Texarkana luncheon event sponsored by the Confederated Synod Of Batshit Crazy Evangelicals And Snakehandlers."

Malcolm, I'd be more enthusiastic about Ron Paul if I didn't know he wants to basically eviscerate the federal government. Being the bleedin' heart pinko hippy SociaCommuNazi I am, that's a deal breaker for me.

Ouch!
Well, my own fault.
I didn't make myself clear. Couldn't perhaps. English doesn't have a word that means "you as a collective" instead of "you as an individual", we've only got one form of "you".

My intention Mr. Nana, Sir, was to offer support NOT insult to you. I see that I was singularly ineffective at THAT. To say the least. Perhaps the hour had something to do with it - it being 4:30 in the AM here when I wrote that comment.

But no excuses.

I offer my most profound and sincere apologies for offending you (the individual).

If you (individual) can read that comment with the you (collective) that I meant it to imply, you (individual) might see that I was commenting upon the general public's inability to "get serious" about how dangerous this present economic situation is. I do not believe Obama can change it. I don't think anyone who is involved in politics can. Nor do I think the vast majority of politicians want to. They are being taken care of quite nicely, thank you (collective) very much.

Ah well. What will be, will be.
.

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♥║╚══╣║║║║║╚══╣╚══╬╝║║╚╝♥
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♥╚═══╝╚╝╚╝╚═══╩═══╝─╚╝.For making our understanding oh so much clearer.

pretty much, the perfect post... says it all.
the ball that can't be dropped
the bomb that has

ripping stream too.

...make it an even fifty r.

I thnk it is telling that Obama has not pushed unions which are needed for a restoration of the middle class.