
The following are extracts from a discussion on an Intention Manifestation forum. Essentially the forum promotes the belief in The Law of Attraction, and that reality is subjective, and that objective reality does not exist
The discussion started the 3 January 2009 when a member of the forum posted an extract from my book, and eventually exceeded 13,000 views and more than a thousand replies.
The bulk of the discussion is between myself (Newfort) and the local guru on the forum, Acting Like Godot or ALG.
and are moving toward creating something that is important to you...for example when Picasso was creating his art...
I love Picasso. He illustrates how mind creates reality.
There is a story about how his friend says, "Hey Picasso, I hear you're an artist now. Paint a picture of me."
So Picasso paints a picture of his friend. And of course, since he is Picasso, he draws his friend to look something like this:
See picture above
So his friend says, "No, no. I asked you to draw a picture of ME."
Picasso replies, "Yes, that's what I did."
Friend: "But I don't look like that."
Picasso is very confused. "But you DO look like that. You look EXACTLY like that ... to me."
His perception creates his reality. Same goes for all of us. Our reality can never be other than what we perceive it to be.
And that is what .... Alex Platups .... cannot grasp. Alex sees reality one way, and that is the only way he can see it, and if people say that they see reality another way, Alex believes that they must be lying, or insane, or escaping reality, or believing in bullshit.
Actually if everyone in the world saw reality the way Alex Platups does, then everyone in the world would be Alex Platupses. There could not possibly be a Picasso ... or an Einstein ... or a Jesus ... or a Gandhi ... or an Obama .... or a Usain Bolt ... or a Kahlil Gibran ... or a Steven Spielberg .... or a Steve Pavlina ... or a Newton Forte.
There can only be .... Alex.
You make a very good point and much of it I can agree with as there definitely is a thing as subjective reality. For instance somebody can call me sa anctimonious prig because I offend them with some of my posts, while those who know me intimately think I’m the greatest thing since sliced beef.
We have however been down this road before, but let me go down here again for those who did not read the earlier posts.
That picture would be Picasso’s artistic impression. It however would not be a very realistic depiction of his friend. It’s great for entertainment but would not suffice as a very good identikit of him. In fact it is so bad from an objective perspective, that his friend could not even identify himself. Whether it actually is great art on the other hand, is a matter of opinion--that's subjectivity.
You see, there are basically two types of realities. The painting represents Picasso’s subjective reality, and its lots of fun—it is his artistic impression. However a photograph of his friend would represent objective reality. That is a representation that any two people with a visual capacity and even a moronic intelligence can fully agree on with a conclusive answer. So for instance if a policeman were to use Picasso’s picture as an identikit, no one would in any way be able to identify the individual it supposedly represents. It therefore is a very poor representation of reality—as many subjective beliefs also are.
Objective reality would be a reality we all can reasonably consistently agree on.
The colour red is red. Your house is built with a brick wall or a wooden wall. We now know the earth is round, the moon revolves around the earth, and the earth around the sun, that’s unless you live in a remote jungle disconnected from the rest of the world where this information has not reached. These are definitions/knowledge of what we refer to as object-ive reality with which we make sense of the greater world around us. It helps keep us sane—so to know the proverbial wood from the trees.
This is not subjective as the definition we have given is just that, object-ive, unless you prefer to change the English language to adopt it to suite you ideology, and so to change this fundamental terminology to suite your eclectic interpretation of the nature of the world.
Thus we can say gravity is a law of the universe because we can bank on it every time—thus for instance, if you decide to jump off a 100m high cliff because you doubt the nature of objective reality, you will most definitely be reduced to a pulp. We cannot however say LoA is such a law of nature because it is absolutely not a repeatable and consistent phenomenon. In fact it has no veracity under any objective scrutiny, hence it is not a law of nature (or a phenomena of any kind), but merely a belief which one can choose as one's subjective truth if one wishes. Or not.
That choice is yours to make, but believing or intending it is, so, unfortunately for you, doesn’t make it so, as it merely will remain a figment of your imagination.


Salon.com
Comments
I think you hit on something good when you said "change the language to suit yr Way"
That's what we all do, though...we all have similar objective realities but we place more emotional emphasis on some things. I believe , with Whitehead, that we "prehend" things,
which is a philosophical way of saying we feel, and include somehow, the objects in the world...
subjective/objective is the basic argument. but: we're all "IN HERE", y'know? This noospherical location. Not on the ultraviolet frequency, for example, but we can reach it with our tools...
our tools bring things "to hand" as i think heidegger said. What i would add is that the tools, the things we choose to "be part of us", be what Blake called "emanation"---the form of the things we love & care for---
are individual, certainly, but: oh shit, guess i gotta bring universals into it. How do you think about universals? Whitehead called em eternal objects,
says they "ingress" into our subjective reality,
which continually changes & grows,
drop by drop of experience,
per william james..
i have no earthly idea what i just said...
short term memory & typing problems....jim.rated*
"our tools bring things "to hand" as i think heidegger said. What i would add is that the tools, the things we choose to "be part of us", be what Blake called "emanation"---the form of the things we love & care for--- are individual, certainly, but: oh shit, guess i gotta bring universals into it. How do you think about universals? Whitehead called em eternal objects, says they "ingress" into our subjective reality, which continually changes & grows,
drop by drop of experience, per william james..."
...
It makes sense. When we view the outer as primary as opposed to the inner subjective world, we enlarge ourselves into the world--notions of compassion and connection then applies. We then extend ourselves beyond ourselves so to say. In other words we incorporate objective reality, reality as it is, into our frame of reference. When we take the view that the inner subjective world is primary, we become absorbed with our id, our needs, moods, cravings, momentary happiness, are regarded as real, and without the greater world to reflecting how real or relevant, or sane, these moods or emotions actually may be.
The outer world therefore is the mirror reflecting our inner truth, and therefore, the better we know the world for what it is, the better we know ourselves as well--and vice versa.
The giving of ourselves is also a necessary way in which extend or enlarge ourselves. It has nothing to do with logic, because logic may tell us that we shouldn't do or give of ourselves to others as it means we have less for ourselves. The credit crisis has been caused by that kind of "logic". All I'm arguing for is that the giving of oneself is an enlarging process in that our own neediness and wantonness be tempered by a reflection of the suffering around one (this is perhaps more relevant to me as I live in Africa, but suffering is relative, the postal clerk you wish to take your frustrations out on will do as well), and how one therefore can be of service to the greater objective world - the world of real phenomena - we share this planet with.
It's a choice, a wholly personal perspective on reality.
A man is caught in a flood, and as the water rises he climbs to the roof of his house and waits to be rescued. A guy in a motorboat comes by, and he says, “Hop in, I’ll save you.”
“No thanks,” the man on the rooftop says. “My lord will save me.”
But the floodwaters keep rising. A few minutes later, a rescue plane flies overhead and the pilot drops a line.
“No, thanks,” the man on the rooftop says. “My lord will save me.”
But the floodwaters rise ever higher, and finally, they overflow the roof and the man drowns.
When he gets to heaven, he confronts God.
“My Lord, why didn’t you save me?” he implores.
“You idiot,” God says. “I sent you a boat, I sent you a plane.”
What I cannot (yet) do is quantify my own experiences.
I cycled around our world through 18 countries – a journey of well over two years... Just finished in Feb this year.
I have been looking for ways to "report" subjective realities vs objective realities.....
Doing it in such a way as to reach people without them viewing my words, with "their" realities. Or more precisely their concept of reality....
I witnessed opulence on a scale never before imagined.
I witnessed poverty on a scale never before imagined.
I saw the hopelessness in both...
I saw joy in both....
I "know" what I want to say, I just don't know how to say it..
Poverty is both crushing and liberating....
Wealth is both crushing and liberating.....
Your post is very compelling, deep and hidden within are many "keys" to the things all of us debate...
I look forward to part 2...
Mal
But I think you’ve captured what I’m trying to convey with this.
“I have been looking for ways to "report" subjective realities vs objective realities.....
Doing it in such a way as to reach people without them viewing my words, with "their" realities. Or more precisely their concept of reality...”
The only way we can experience another’s reality, is if we can momentarily put our ego’s (or our American-ness or republican-ness, or Christianity, or any other hardwired identity) aside, and let someone else’s reality in. We then allow ourselves to be enlarged by that experience—that is as you have done by experiencing the kaleidoscope of humanity first hand, without any judgment, and with compassion. This act of honestly allowing in another perspective, not encumbered by one’s limited perceptions, is a truly objective act as it allows one to perceive another’s reality as close to what it actually may be.
Yet the paradox is, that implicit in it is the acknowledgement that that reality is never ours to fully comprehend as it is not our experience. It is to yet acknowledge that our view of it is absolutely our subjective perception, no matter how hard we attempt to be true to the reality outside of ourselves.
And so alas, irrespective that we never can know the world fully, in the endeavor to reflect on our perceptions as truthfully (or objectively) as we humanly can, we find our own objective truth. And so I think, ultimately, for anyone to remotely get a sense of your journey, and how you’ve been enriched by it, they have to take that time and wind their way along that same path you went along, and yet may not remotely see the wonders you’ve seen, but rather to recount that all it’s left them with is a monumental pain in their but.
My Wife and I cycled in Africa, (Morocco only...)
We were attacked over 20 times and it became too dangerous.
Islam too made things a little more difficult at times and my wife resorted to wearing the vale. However, it seemed a "reluctant acceptance" prevailed towards a Woman cycling.
(Let alone an Asian Woman)
I am not American - and I do share the same hemisphere as you :-)
I am Australian.
I visited Cape Town in 1967 and spent time with a family in Paarl
It was a memorable time so very long ago (I was 17).
Our journey http://www.pcw.iinet.net.au did enrich our lives enormously.
It also saddened our perceptions, tore at the fabric of our understandings, left us searching - we returned home with more questions than answers.
But, it also altered our reality, in such a way that I now feel we are not so "hard wired" as we may think we are.
But you are right! To experience a quantum shift requires a fairly dramatic experience.
Certain synergies play with the plethora of our potential as human beings... Harnessing these is difficult enough - expressing them - for now - (and for me) is impossible.
Thank you for your comments....
Mal
You're confronted by life's dichotomy on a day to day basis. Only about two weeks ago I bumped into Matt Damon at my Gym, and Sharon Stone, Clint Eastwood Robert De Niro, and other Hollywood celebs are in town this week having opened a 6 star hotel.
For many it's the next best place to Monaco, while for others its a place which only affords them others scraps.
By the way, we've got a bit of a synchronicity going there, I was born in 1967, so...
By the way, we whipped you're Ozzy asses this Sunday. I suppose it was a long time coming since you guys dominated for so long. Here's hoping for another thrashing this Sunday, more impossible things have happened before....
Best
Newton
Yes, one of life's "aberrations".
Of course the normal order of things will return and this minor deviation, will be long forgotten :-) :-) :-)
Mal