I feel I must write this. It will be short and sweet.
It's what I tell my students when we start a class about critical thinking.
We discuss stereotypes. Once, I said, "Give me some stereotypes, please!" to the class of mostly white, wealthy children and one shouted "All Mexicans are gardeners!" The kids in the front started to laugh.
The kids whose families were from Mexico and South America, mostly sitting in the back together, were not amused. One of them shouted, "All rich, white kids are stupid racists!"
It was a moment.
I stopped all this by saying, "You are all wrong. Because stereotypes are not true. Some of you, yes, are most probably racist. Some of you are poor. So what? It says nothing about your character or what you deserve as a person. Some of you are smart. Congratulations. But it won't be because your hair is brown. Some of you are not as smart. But it isn't because your hair is blond. Some black people like watermelon. I am white, and I love watermelon myself. The enjoyment of food is not an intrinsic quality reserved for one group of people. Some white people can't dance. Some white people can kick your butt on the dance floor. Fat people are not all weak. Some thin people with terrific muscles are weak on the inside. People with glasses are not all smart. Stereotypes are a lie. Now, prove me wrong."
The only time I had to back down was when some kid piped up with "All human beings lie and make mistakes." That appeared true. I could not refute it.
After that, my class, full of different people, treated each other with a lot more respect. It didn't always last, of course. But it was a seriously good start. And it kept them from putting all those fallacies in their papers.
Well, mostly.
Now I have to go grade. I'll probably make some mistakes. I might even lie a bit later on in the evening if I talk to my mother on the phone. I'm a human being. Most of us appear to lie quite a bit and make lots of mistakes. I hope someday to prove that one wrong.
And there you go.
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This elephant is walking down the street and runs into this tiny mouse. He stops. The mouse stops. They look at each other.
The elephant says, "My god, you're small."
The mouse says, "I've been sick."
(and Jodi I love ya too, don't always agree with you, but I believe you to be a good kind person- my comment is in no way shape or form a slam on you)
Humor is important, of course. Very important. Once we can really laugh at a situation EVERYONE laugh, we'll know that things are better all the way around, won't we? I hope for that day very soon. Although I doubt it will come in my lifetime.
Thanks.
talking and writing is how we continue to learn about these things, isn't it? good work, odette. [and jodi, too]
And somehow I didn't make it to critical thinking. Damn.
(And damn it, I think Jodi is wonderful too. But I wasn't wild about this post either. But it did force me to think. Jodi, if I start getting gray hair, it will be because you made me think.)
Anyway, I'm not saying any of this is moral. I'm just saying I think it's kind of natural. But what makes us human, in my opinion, is our ability to transcend biology. That's always the challenge, isn't it?
R
Unfortunately, debate is off the table for a bit. I'm afraid Jodi has had a death in her family, and that is more important than any exercise in debate.
Kinda off topic, I know.
Here's to an honest, mistake-free existence.
I'd also like to point out that it's possible to be wrong and funny at the same time.
All Mexicans are gardeners isn't close to being a stereotype. It's an observation, limited though it may be. Likewise the Mexican's response of rich white racists. Just an attack, not anywhere near racist.
It wasn't a moment, it was erroneous and as a critical thinker you should have pointed it out.
Let's see, what race do "rich white kids" belong to? What race do gardeners belong to? What about Japanese gardeners? What race do poor kids belong to? What race do smart people belong to? Or food enjoyment?
God, the whole episode described is farcically wrong. That said,
Stereotypes ARE true. They are representative of the culture that inspired them. They are to be enjoyed and celebrated. The problem is when people use them to judge, rather than to illuminate.
The whole premise here -- and I feel sorry for the students -- is false.
No, saying ALL of anyone is one thing is indeed a stereotype.
My point, which I see you are desperately trying to ignore, is that stereotyping, as useful as it may be as a way to classify people, is actually not real. There are no 'observations' in the way of your definition that are not stereotyping of one type or another. 'Race' is only one classification of a stereotype as well. You concentrate on that, missing the bigger picture about this thing called generalizing. Stereotyping is part of that picture of massive generalizations which one must guard against if one is going to make an argument.
What you're trying to suss out is not stereotyping but something about cultures. However, cultures are also subjected to all sorts of stereotyping that is quite wrong. In other words, culture is part of a bigger picture, and stereotyping is something that can happen within it.
For example, I used to really enjoy much of the culture surrounding the Day of the Dead. That's a celebration not practiced by all cultures or peoples. It's a bit different from a stereotype. A stereotype is saying all Southern people are stupid.
You need to buy a dictionary. Pronto. Or is it that you assume saying 'black people do this' will be okay if you claim it's cultural? Don't answer that. I know that's what you'll say. Sigh.
Also, since I know you're not really interested in actual debate or in finding real definitions, you might want to move on. I've read some of your posts. I know we won't agree.
As John says - Stereotypes ARE true.
Ex. All Italians are in the Mafia.
I am Italian
therefore I am in the Mafia.
John, am I correct in assuming the name, Boni is an Italian name so you must be in the Mafia too...
hee hee
Well, I'm from the South. We're all married to our cousins, don't you know? ::roll of eyes::
As for stereotyping, well, hell yes! I have lots of trouble with it. I have in the past stereotyped, for example, Republicans as all being like Rush Limbaugh. But then I realized he is evil all on his own.
Seriously, I fight against stereotyping others all the time. I would like it if I were closer to perfect, but I am utterly NOT.
You say, “Stereotypes are a lie.” But they’re not always a lie. You insist they’re always negative, but they’re not always negative. Consider this etymology of the word:
The term "stereotype" derives from Greek στερεός (stereos) "solid, firm"[3] + τύπος (typos) "blow, impression, engraved mark"[4] hence "solid impression".
“Solid impression”
You tell us that you asked for stereotypes from …
“…the class of mostly white, wealthy children and one shouted "All Mexicans are gardeners!" The kids in the front started to laugh. The kids whose families were from Mexico and South America, mostly sitting in the back together, were not amused. One of them shouted, "All rich, white kids are stupid racists!”
Several questions arise from this account.
Did you ask “the kids in front” why they were laughing? Did you wonder why they were laughing? Were they laughing at Mexicans or were they laughing at the stereotype itself?
Did you ask the kids who were not amused why they jumped to the conclusion of racism? Stereotypes do not necessarily imply racism.
Did you consider that stereotypes do not necessarily refer to inherent traits, but rather often to cultural traits?
The expression of a stereotype does not necessarily have to incorporate an all-inclusive element; the expression can start with “most” rather than “all” and still be a stereotype. This implies that they may be inexact, but not necessarily “a lie” or completely untrue.
There are, in fact, gangstas, rednecks, snobs, racists, religious fundamentalists, genius nerds, dumb jocks, distinct differences between men and women, animal lovers, hippies, etc, etc, etc, … the list goes on and on and they are all stereotypes that are not lies.
Enjoyed the writing.
rated
At those times, I have been known to go home and drink a beer and try to think calm thoughts.
I am reminded, by a friend, that there is nothing wrong with being a gardener, because he is one. Yeah. I didn't make that point well. I should have written that the comment about gardeners was followed with really sarcastic laughter and a few kids muttering the words "Illegal aliens" and "losers." Frankly, I wish I were a gardener. I like working outside. Well, of course, there's that thing where I kill all plants that I touch ...
Rick, stereotypes are all a lie. I'm going to stand by it. I am correct about it.
It is accurate that a person who is kind might also be a little, older lady. But not all little old ladies are kind. Nor are most little old ladies kind. Well, they might be at times, but it's a lot to ask of little old ladies that they must always conform to that stereotype.
And I did not say all stereotypes are all negative. I didn't use positive examples up at the top, but I never stated that. But positive stereotypes are still wrong. Stereotyping is inaccurate. It's a massive generalization. Wrong. Period.
It's extremely important to distinguish between cultural norms, which not everyone follows, and stereotyping, which occurs within these cultural norms. Of course, sometimes, you can point at a stereotypical behavior you see and say, "Look at that guy! See! It's true! They all do that!!" Stopped clocks are also correct at least twice a day.
All your examples would only work on individuals. For example, I am an animal lover. Are all short people then animal lovers? No, they are not. Are all women animal lovers? No. Are all Southerners animal lovers? Lord, no. Are all white people animal lovers? No. Are all people with brown hair animal lovers? No. I am an animal lover. That statement is accurate.
The kids in the front were laughing at others. Trust me on that one.
Here is a great book that my daughter and I discovered many years ago---really changed her life (young teen at the time)...and gave her hope...since she didn't "feel" "normal" much of the time...check it out!
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/Define-Normal/Julie-Anne-Peters/e/9780316734899
It's a giant chestnut tree. They used to populate the area where I was born, but a terrible ecological disaster occurred. They are all mainly gone. Right now, they are working on a genetic 'cure' but haven't licked it yet.
I had a friend I worked with who was Chinese, who used to crack me up telling me about the stereotypes she would hear about 'you Orientals'. (groan) For example, no one thought she could speak English or they would ask her in a really loud voice, "Where were you born?" When she said, "Kentucky" they would always look really confused.
We worked in a restaurant, too, and the manager would always put her near the front in the ordering line when we had the Asian salad as a special. It totally worked. And drove her crazy.
Regarding my examples, you say, “All your examples would only work on individuals.”
And the point you miss is that those individuals then form a group that leads to, sustains and proves the stereotype. It is from observation of such groups that stereotypes are formed. If my examples work on individuals, then they are not lies, but rather (at least) partial truths, and when one observes a sufficient number of individuals who fit the description, a stereotype is developed. There is nothing inherently wrong with that in itself.
You also still miss the point that a stereotype does not have to include everyone within a certain group in order to be true rather than a lie; the issue in that scenario becomes which group you designate. The stereotype of “kind little old ladies” does not necessitate that EVERY little old lady is kind. The stereotype requires that kind little old ladies be both, kind and little old ladies, nothing more. And those individuals who fit that model fit the stereotype.
Your perspective relies on your insistent misuse of the word “ALL”.
“Most ‘gangstas’ like rap music” is a stereotype that is true.
However, in your perspective the only presentation for this particular stereotype would be:
“All people who like rap music are gangstas.”
It has nothing to do with African-Americans, or any other inherent trait; it has to do with cultural identity. There are many white people who like rap music. There are many white people who choose the cultural identity of “gansta” and fit the stereotype.
The problem is less with the stereotype than with how it is applied.
My point is that one can only make semi-definite and fairly correct statements about individuals. One cannot make massive generalizations about large groups of people (and I did, in fact, use 'some' up there quite a bit) and be right. And there is a huge difference between a stereotype and a cultural norm.
The gansta one you use troubles me greatly. Er, I mean, who are these 'ganstas'. They are imaginary at present. Do you know a large group of men or women personally, all of whom agree that they are 'gangstas' and that they love rap?
Or, are they a group of people of all races who love rap and thus, call themselves 'gangstas' to identify themselves? That last one's not a stereotype, Rick.
Cultural identity is not stereotyping. I believe you are confusing two separate things. Stereotyping is the identification of something within a group that is believed to be true of the whole culture when, in fact, it is not. Cultural identity is a whole other issue. For example, cultural identity may make a person identify him or herself as an American. A stereotype is saying that all Americans, for example, like Disneyland or are obnoxious or rich or some such thing.
It's not the same thing. Stereotypes, again, are massive generalizations. Massive generalizations are a huge error in critical thinking.
Dorinda,
Here are most of what Mr. O' Gorman has put up for his thoughts for the day on his Face Book pages over the last couple of months.
You speak of critical thinking and teaching it to students.
Face Book has become for many of my former High School classmates a place where we are reconnecting after nearly 50 years. Our High School was among the top academic public schools in the nation.
Now over a third of our classmates have become members of Face Book. Recently one of our revered teachers became a Face Book member. Of course that may not be something exceptional for some, but Mr O’Gorman was one of the exceptional teachers in that exceptional high school I attended nearly 50 years ago.
Mr O’Gorman is now 94 years old. A solid still proud Irish Catholic who invites his former students to come to his Irish Pub in his garage and spend some time. Mr O’Gorman taught Sophomore English. Each morning as we came into class we would look to the chalk board where he would write the “thought for the day”. At that time none of were aware that Critical thinking was being drilled into us with these thoughts of the day.
By request from his former students Mr O’Gorman has begun posting some of those “thoughts for the day” on his Face Book page.
I take the liberty to share what I and my fellow High School Sophomore classmates were greeted with each morning in class. I can assure you he would welcome you to borrow them, as he very likely borrow many himself.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“These are those "thoughts for the day" that we would spend the whole hour discussing instead of diagramming sentences or whatever it was that was the "Torture for the Day" The best days spent in your classroom were those that we were learning about life!!”- (a former student)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
“May the road rise to meet you all, my lovely kids of yesteryear.” (Mr O’Gorman’s greeting to his former students on his Face Book page)
On the bulletin board the last day before Christmas Mr O'Gorman would write: "You may see that another way, but this is MY way."
MISTER O’GORMAN’S THOUGHTS FOR THE DAY
“Horse sense is the result of stable thinking.”
“Success is a journey, not a destination.”
"All glory comes from daring to begin."
"Too many people make cemeteries of their lives by burying their talents."
"True courage is like a kite; a contrary wind raises it highest"
“The reward of a job well done is to have done it. The reward of a life well lived is to have lived it.”
“I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet”
“The only person who saves time is the one who spends it well.”
“Every rose has its thorn.”
“Happiness is like potato salad; share it and you have a picnic.”
“It's a poor person who has nothing but money”
“Do not follow where the path leads. Rather, go where there is no path and leave a trail.”
“It is not good enough to have great qualities; one must make good use of them.”
“As the firefly shines only when it is on the wing, so it is with the human mind. When at rest, it darkens.”
“Happiness is like perfume. Spray it on others and you are bound to get some on yourself”
“A poem begins in delight and ends in wisdom.”
"As you slide down the banister of life, may the splinters never point the wrong way!"
“We are such little people when the stars come out.”
“A fanatic is a person with such a large chip on his shoulder that he loses his balance.”
“A life enriched by reading is a guarantee against boredom.”
“Good books not only record thought; they also provoke it.”
“The more you know, the more you know you ought to know.”
“Life's greatest reward is the pleasure, the tranquility, and the satisfaction gained from something well done.”
“Be a life long or short, its completeness depends on what it was lived for.”
“Ideals, like stars, are never reached, but like sea mariners, they chart a course.”
“Life is like a game of tennis; the player who SERVES well, seldom loses.”
“The road ahead isn't as safe for the man who thinks he knows as it is for the man who knows he thinks.”
“A man there was and they called him mad; the more he gave, the more he had.”
“Kindness is the language the deaf can hear and the dumb can understand. “
I see that I referred to Dorinda when posting my comment. That is because I sent these in a private email earlier to Dorinda and copied them for comments on odetteroulette's post.
Well, I have been known to screw up often in my life, so here it is again
I’ve asked some questions and presented some different views and, I might add, effectively supported those different views.
You say ALL stereotypes are “lies”. Hmmm, is that a stereotype of stereotypes? I think so.
I say, “…they may be inexact, but not necessarily ‘a lie’ or completely untrue.”
You say I’m confused and accuse of me of insulting you. Neither charge is true.
We agree that generalizations represent an “error in critical thinking”, at least on a certain level, but you have not presented anything that indicates stereotypes are completely untrue, i.e. “lies”. Ignoring the true part of the stereotype is also an error in critical thinking.
I’ll just say that it is you who has confused two different concepts; oversimplifications are not necessarily lies, as you indicate. And it all comes back to intent.
And yes, over and over, I have pointed out the ways that stereotypes are untrue, gross generalizations. Stereotypes aren't real. Period. Just because one person who might be short, tall, smart, stupid, black, white, etc. etc. does an action does not mean everyone that shares that characteristic will be doing it, too!
No amount of attempting to argue it in another direction is going to make them true, even in the tiniest part! Unfortunately, no matter how much we want to judge another or classify them in some way, people remain individuals.
And again, stereotypes aren't 'cultural identification choices.' My identification as an American is not a stereotype. A stereotype is, again, within that subset being more like "All Americans are fat, stupid, rich, racist, not, etc. etc. etc."
From the OED. You can argue with them instead.
stereotype n. and adj: A preconceived and oversimplified idea of the characteristics which typify a person, situation; an attitude based on a preconception. Also, a person who appears to conform to the idea of a type.
Some examples from the OED: ... a tendency for a belief to be oversimplified in content and unresponsive to the objective facts.
Note the words 'preconceived' and 'oversimplification.' (Also, the word 'appears' is very telling there.) So, it isn't the intent, good or bad, as you want to believe. It's the perception of the person doing the stereotyping. That person sees something, classifies it, simplifies it in the process and then assigns it to everyone who fits that description. So, we get from 'my grandmother is sweet to me' to 'all little, old ladies are so sweet.' So, we go from 'that black man robbed me' to 'all black men are robbers.' So, we go from 'the girl with blond hair is so dumb!' to 'all girls with blond hair are dumb.' And so on.
The danger of attempting to equate culture with a stereotype is very dangerous indeed. It can lead a person to believe all sorts of things about another culture without any understanding of whether or not these things are actually true. That might be benign. It might not.
No one's intent, if you want to discuss that, is making someone else into a stereotype is truly benign, however. It is the act of trying to pigeonhole a person, to make that person over into the image in your own mind, so that the one stereotyping can feel more secure. In other words, it's a lie, created by the human being, to feel safer or better or more in control.
If you want to tell yourself that, by having a good intent, stereotyping people, and placing them into categories against their will to satisfy your own perceptions, is okay, you're right about one thing. There's nothing I can do to stop you. But it will, I believe, put you further away from knowing the actual person that you met.
This might be why the road to hell is paved with these things though. Something to consider.
you did those kids a very good service. thank you.
Yesterday I was waiting at a south side bus stop. Two women joined me at the stop with their young boys. They noticed a public service ad that's been up at this bus shelter for a while. It features an interracial couple and a little boy. They went on at length about whether they could picture the couple together in real life and if there's any way a boy of that skin tone could be produced by that couple. One commented: "only if that boy had a different daddy." They carried on, making catty comments until the bus arrived.
After they got on the bus, the older of their boys, who was probably 7 or 8, found a seat distant from the others, out of earshot. He didn't rejoin them until they got off the bus a while later.
Aside from this moment of people watching, I see plenty of stereotyping on and concerning public transit. In this context, stereotyping keeps too many people away from good transportation options and results in more crowded and hostile roads.
I just posted the following on Jodi's page, but I think it bears reposting here.
The point I think I didn't make there is this: people who hate will always find a reason to. People who live in fear of "the other" will fear, and often react violently towards, any category of person that is easily identified with "other." They won't come to the door for the black kid who wants to shovel the walkway. They'll welcome in and offer coffee to the well-dressed white man who's casing the house for burglary later that week.
That said, you're not being "insensitive" when you back away from a snarling dog. Your brain is trained to fear it, and you'd do well to heed that advice. It's when you try to show everyone, and the dog, that you're "blind" to prejudice and hold out your hand to it, well, you get bit.
The joke comes when you're showing the dog your PETA membership card.
=======================
here's the reason we have stereotypes at all - it's not because a few of us are too narrow minded to accept that there is a wide range of personalities and insist on pigeon-holing people into neat little categories (we do, but that's beside the point) - it's part of our brain function. An animal part, to be sure, but it is learned behavior.
The amygdala is responsible for much of our trained reactions to things. You see a spider. Your higher brain takes time to try to recognize the spider, match it to a type you may be familiar with, consider what the spider may be doing, where it came from, what it's currently doing in your bathtub. It's trying to reason if this spider presents a threat. Your amygdala makes you jump out of your skin and scream - almost immediately.
That is what keeps us, as animals, alive. Our own survival first, apologize for risk of offending later.
Try telling someone who's been mauled by a dog that your little snookums wouldn't hurt a fly, no he wouldn't, would you boy? Please lock him in another room before they come in.
Consider the hoodlum. There are different species of that particular genus. There is the homeboy, the schoolyard bully, any model of disenfranchised youth thoroughly vested with enough insecurity to act out sometimes violently towards any one and any thing it perceives as a threat, if not to prove it to their friends but themselves that they're a true badass. You know them, you've met them - you may even be one.
You only have to get your ass kicked once by someone who fits a model of outward behavior (or even seen examples of it) before your brain is trained to fear that model of behavior - regardless of who actually fits it.
As was just mentioned, outward displays of aggression are just that - aggression. Doesn't matter if it's an act, if it's only to impress their friends. You could bump into someone who's the nicest boy at home, rocks his baby sister to sleep every night, but in front of his friends he's going to let you know you shouldn't have done that - with mixed outcome.
It doesn't matter the color of the person's skin, nor their nationality, your brain forms a reaction to that type of person. That every person you've come into contact with that fits that type is of a particular ethnic origin is immaterial. There are assholes everywhere. Does't make you racist.
The error we all make is in assigning blanket judgments. All black men are thieves and rapists; all Mexicans are here illegally.
If I talk about the Mexicans standing around the Home Depot, looking for day labor, am I perpetuating a negative stereotype? I just drove by my local Home Depot and that's who's there. Illegal immigrants? Say that and everyone assumes you mean a Mexican. But one town over from me is a large Polish population, where the ATMs are in English and Polish. There's a huge percentage of the population that's illegal. Around here, you hire a contractor to work on your house, I'll bet money that the white guys are here on expired visas and the "tan" ones are citizens.
Are all black men thieves, or just the ones dressed like low-class punks? I used to work in a department store. 3-4, shall we say, "urban" youth, go into the shoe department, looking for the latest Ralph Lauren Polo sneakers. I used to ride the bus with these young men. I would witness them unzip their coats on the bus to reveal 3-4 high-end jackets underneath. Plain-clothes security was everywhere. They bought their shoes and left. Clean-cut, well-dressed black man in a business suit, carrying an attache case, sits down to try on a pair of dress shoes. Salesman comes back out with another pair and the man is g-o-n-e gone.
The point of my anecdotal evidence is this: small-time thieves fit a stereotype. Professional thieves exploit them. If most of your high-end items walk out of the store with help from a certain type of person - not just their skin color or manner of dress, or perceived socio-economic background, but a combination - you're going to watch any one that fits that group like a hawk.
Big-time, professional thieves frequently employ these young people to go into the store and occupy the security, sometimes stealing, sometimes not, while they unload 6 racks of leather jackets on the other end of the department.
Yes, this happens, and I can bear witness.
No one's sending security to watch the black man in the business suit. He could be a lawyer - he at least looks like he could afford one. You're not going to "harass" this man based on the color of his skin. Besides, he doesn't fit the stereotype of the kids you usually catch. He knows this and is free to walk out of the store with 3 brand new $100+ pairs of shoes.
Oh, and those guys who unloaded 3 full display cases of Ralph Lauren sweaters? They were white.
Next, well, exactly really. The perpetuation of stereotypes causes the plainclothes detectives to look in the wrong place for theft, and so they miss a bunch. Instead of following every person who is black in the store, the store detective would be better served following the person who has a very large bag or the person who is clearly arranging a way to be alone with your stuff or the nit who has big pockets on his or her clothing and keeps moving his or her hands in and out of them or the person who is looking around in another direction while his or her hand is on the merchandise. Not that even that guarantees a thief, of course. Some people just behave that way and are, indeed, fidgety. I'm glad I'm not a store detective.
(I had a friend who worked at Tower--these WERE the instructions for watching for theft "Follow the black people" yes sigh.)
I saw three shoplifters once. The girl and the guy distracted everyone with laughter and silliness. The other guy, with enormous freaking pockets, followed behind them, picking up little bits here and there. Then, they drove away in somebody's Mercedes before the store manager could get someone to stop them.
A particular plant made you itchy. You avoid plants with similar leaf patterns.
One species of otherwise benign snake (I forget the name) looks almost exactly like a coral snake, which is poisonous. That's its survival mechanism - looking like something that can kill you.
You're free to draw a corollary to some youth culture.
I would disagree that a stereotype is "a lie" in that it does apply to smaller subsets of people. It is inaccurate to apply it to others who share similar traits. That it's wrongly applied where it shouldn't, doesn't make it untrue when it's an accurate categorization.
For example, I get called "whiny liberal" quite a lot. I happen to be a Republican. When I state my political views, some would apply "liberal" to mean "anyone with views I don't agree with." They would be wrong. Just as wrong as anyone who would assume what my political views were when I state I'm a Republican.
But then, that I can label myself Republican does connote a certain political ideology. I can't help that most people's minds go to Palin, Beck and Limbaugh.
Lets not debate whether or not racism exists. I've had to go out and hail cabs for friends and coworkers whose ethnic background was (mostly) different from mine. This is in a supposedly "enlightened" and "liberal" city.
Are you wrong to lock your doors when driving through certain neighborhoods? Doesn't matter that most of the people you'd meet there are kind and helpful. Statistically, you're more likely to come into contact with someone who wishes you harm. You've pre-judged, or stereotyped a community of a certain socio-economic class. (For the record, I know what everyone's thinking, and I don't get out of the car in the backwoods of Pennsylvania, either.) You're not perpetuating a lie.
You know the type of person I mean when I say "homeboy." Your perception and judgement of that person is yours. When you see a group of them standing on a corner, it is judgmental, perhaps unfairly, to presume to lock your car doors.
But, to the point I think Jodi was making, say you have three groups of people - a half dozen "little old ladies," a group of Mormon kids out doing missionary work and the aforementioned "homeboys." That group is looking directly at you, nudging their compatriots and gesturing to you. Are you wrong to feel threatened by any of those groups?
Maybe your dress is sticking out of the car door. Maybe they want to sell you something. Maybe they need directions.
Comedy comes when the little old ladies drag you out of the car and beat you with their canes before driving off.
That's not what you were expecting - doesn't matter if what you were expecting was right or wrong.
I've gone into a bit more detail than is appropriate for a comment here: http://open.salon.com/content.php?cid=430742
I'd appreciate comments and feedback. Thanks.
As John says - Stereotypes ARE true.
Ex. All Italians are in the Mafia.
I am Italian
therefore I am in the Mafia.
John, am I correct in assuming the name, Boni is an Italian name so you must be in the Mafia too...
Leonide, I'm assuming you've written this as a joke, and if so, it's amusing. Kind of like that logical undistributed middle problem in:
That man is an American Indian.
American Indians are vanishing.
Therefore, that man is vanishing.
So, yes, I am Italian and, as it so happens, a number of my relatives were in the South Philly mob. They were Mafia.
But what does that have to do with race? What about the Irish kids I associated with in Hells Kitchen who were into crime? What about some of my dad's Jewish friends in the garment business who were part of the so-called Jewish Mafia? Is that race?
In the beginning of your third (or so) paragraph, you jumped from stereotype to racism, as if one implied the other. There are social stereotypes, and those that come from racial differences. Sometimes they're the same, most often not.
Is being in crime a racial characteristic or stereotype or is being in the Mafia a racial characteristic? I don't think so.
See, the problem I have with this whole thread is that it's supposed to be about critical thinking and, well, there's no thought.
Odette patronizingly says I should get a dictionary. Odette, look up the definition of racism. Off the top of my head, it has to do with the belief of one group (or race) that another is inferior because of THEIR race or group, regardless of whether they're lawyers, gardeners, brown-haired, short, fat or beautiful.
That belief is racism, not the trivial examples your students mentioned and which you accepted without, well, critically thinking about them.
Bless your own heart -- I DO want to talk about definitions. Go to Wiki ... I just did. "Racism is the belief that race is a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race."
Good talking with you.
A) you quote Wikipedia - a source that is editable by anyone. You may have edited the entry to say just that. I'm not claiming you have, just that it's not the most reliable source.
B) any "-ism" in its common usage, not it its true definition, implies a discrimination for or against. To acknowledge a difference - positive, malicious or benign - is an "-ism." Women have vaginas, men have penises. Sexist, for it points out a difference between the sexes.
When I talk with people who of African descent, I try to remember that their view of the world is affected by their experiences, some of which I don't share because of my race. I acknowledge that I can't merely suggest to some friends that they "just catch a cab and meet me there." By that mere acknowledgement, I've distinguished them by their racial experiences.
As we use "racist" commonly, it would apply more to the cab driver who wouldn't pick them up.
C) denial of a premise and an ad hominem attack do not actually refute any claims made herein. Please refute a claim with something other than, "is not!"
I think it goes without saying, but clearly it does not, that something one assumes has a 'kernel of truth' (and I still do not agree) is still not THE truth in any shape or form.
I think the problem here on OS is that a few people are confusing the term 'stereotype' which is always and forever a made-up construct of perspective, with the idea of cultural norms and cultural behaviors, which are actually much harder to pin down than you might think. I guess I could be wrong about the confusion, but it does appear that way.
I don't think it's a good idea to approach any argument about racism, for example, with a stereotype in hand, on either side. It just stops conversation. We really have to get to understand each other. We may belong to different social groups, but we are each one individual. Breaking out of the stereotypes and seeing individual human beings ... I think that's the important idea myself.
Occam: Locking doors .... hmm ... I lock my doors in my own fairly okay neighborhood at night. It's a shame. I remember when I didn't do that. Truth? I do it because everyone else does. I'm a lemming.
I actually don't lock my car doors in 'bad' neighborhoods. I lock my doors in neighborhoods with colleges nearby. That's where the drugs are. So, people get carjacked. Money and/or color of skin has nothing to do with it. But crime is usually much higher in those areas.
But I could be weird that way. I went to Philly recently, and I talked to this group of black guys standing on the corner shooting the shit. Around midnight on my way back to the hotel after having a drink with friends. We chatted about the weather. They teased me about my dorky scarf. They were nice. I'm lucky. I've got the ... er ... well ... I'm somewhat intuitive about those sorts of things. But I had a friend who passed me and freaked out about it afterward. "Men! Alone! Midnight! And of course, BLACK! They must be drug dealers." (I think they were just bored, actually.)
Anyway, my point is that bad people come in all colors and have all sorts of different kinds of financial situations. I suppose stereotyping could be seen as a sort of defense mechanism, a way to protect one's self. But it's still not accurate.
John, I'm sorry but you're raving. I don't have time to deal with that.
Then go to the damn dictionary. It'll say the same thing.
God, you suggest that I may have edited the Wiki definition, but then disclaim the possibility. What slovenly criticism!
Why don't people do their own research instead of criticizing the research of others? Editable, indeed. Open your Merriams and check it out.