I will have to admit that I'm feeling rather paranoid and a little taken back by a personal message (PM) that I received from another OpenSalon member. Out of respect for this person since he did send me a private/personal message, I will not mention his name to protect him, even though I believe he handled the situation wrong. There is a part of me that would like to "blast" him and embarrass him publicly because of how he treated me verbally, but I am not a malicious or vindictive person and so will not act out of revenge.
With that being said, after I read his message I decided to share it with you, OS readers, so you may read it for yourself and let me know what you think. Am I being too paranoid and sensitive? After I read his PM I replied to him apologizing and letting him know that I would never do it again. I also added, kindly, that all he had to do was request in a sentence or two, that I not include him when informing my OS friends of a new post of mine. I felt that he went over board with his request and I did take it somewhat personally even though he and I have never exchanged personal messages before. I guess you could say that his PM caught me off guard and somewhat, shocked me mildly. Yes, I do occasionally PM my OS friends of my posts, although not most of the time. I did it more in the beginning to build my readership since I was new on OpenSalon. Now I occasionally do it for a particular post that means a lot to me.
I have mentioned more than once that if you do not want me to PM you to alert you to my post, please let me know that and I will gladly oblige. I am not here to offend you, anger you or fill up your mailbox. Where I went wrong in my thinking is that since I don't mind receiving PM's about your latest post, I assumed you didn't mind mine either. I may not always get to your post, or even be interested in the particular topic, but at least I will know that you have written something and then will decide if I have the time to read it or not. Sometimes I do read them and sometimes I don't. I don't always have time or the energy to read everyone's post, but I like knowing what's out there. OS is a big online magazine and it is hard to keep up with every friend's post every time! I like the "nudge" that I recieve from you....but please tell me if you DON'T want to receive a "nudge" from me....please! I won't be insulted....as long as you only write a line or two. I do NOT want to be raked over the coals for simply sending you a PM. Ok?
Here is the PM that I received that shook me up a little:
I don't know if anyone has said this to you. If they have, I'm adding my voice to the chorus.
I'd like you to stop sending me notes asking me to read your posts. And I dare say so would everyone else.
It's not that your stuff isn't good. It is. But I have to be forthright and honest and tell you that I resent these e-mails in my OS inbox.
I like Open Salon for its structure: I get to read the posts that interest me, and skip the ones that don't. I get to mark my "friends" as bookmarks if I particularly enjoy reading them with regularity. But because I can't keep you from choosing me as a friend, I can't opt-out of these e-mails, and I loathe getting them.
You have sent several, and it's just way too many. It's one thing if you write something really stellar, or is on a very salient and time-sensitive topic, or is a call to action, or requires a massive amount of feedback. But this isn't MySpace. These "bulletin" announcements are just more spam clogging up my brain, and I hate them. Please, if you really have any interest in me continuing to read your stuff, stop sending them. It prejudices me against what your write.
Just being honest. I wish you no ill will, on the contrary, I hope you get a lot of reads. You're a good writer, just please, for the love of cheese, stop the hard sell. It's just bandwidth pollution.
Thanks,
Tom


Salon.com
Comments
Is it possible that what's more upsetting to you is just the idea that you might be irritating someone with your PMs?
However, it's sort of a person-by-person thing. I'll always read PMs from people I "know" here. For example, I don't mind being on your list and am happy to check out what you have here. Part of that is, as you say, you don't promote every single new post. However, I've been on "mailing lists" of people who have felt the need to notify me every time they post something new.
I don't PM my posts as often, but when I do I simply put "Posted: [name of post] in the subject line and the URL in the body of the text. This way the recipient knows that I am promoting my post.
I did a post on this not too long ago:`
http://open.salon.com/blog/trudge164/2009/04/28/i_am_not_a_whore
BTW, his PM was rather tame compared to what I have received.
(Was it Tom Crodle who sent it to you? It reads like him, plus you left the name Tom in your post.)
I think so. I take Tom's message in a slightly different way: He's put in some time writing it, he's made an effort to say that he thinks you're a good writer, and he's trying to explain why he's sending the message. It's not to be taken personally--It may even be the case that Tom thought you'd find this more palatable than a brusque "Please take me off your list." But of course different styles of communication can be interpreted in different ways...
If you're putting mail in his mailbox, then you most certainly have exchanged personal messages before. That's precisely the person's point.
I think this message you received was extremely polite, and so I guess if you're asking if you're being overly sensitive I think the answer is most definitively yes.
I think you want to believe that you have done all that is required to discharge your conscience about what you have done, and I personally cannot tell you that I think you have. Unfortunately, explaining why will take more text, and I apologize for the length here:
It simply can't be the case that the spam problem (and this is a big problem both here and in the real world) is solvable by saying “If you contact me, of course I'll remove you.” If I get 50 bits of junk mail in my physical mailbox, must I make 50 phone calls to vendors to get it to stop, or do I have a right to say they shouldn't have been there in the first place? If I get 50 phone calls from direct marketers at my house during dinner, must I listen through each and every one's tirade (perhaps even recorded) just to find a button to press saying remove me or to get the name of someone I should look up and call back hoping to get myself removed? What if the number was 500? 5000?
If someone presses you physically on a date and says later that you didn't say no clearly enough, is he automatically right unless you have been 100% clear? That makes it open season on people who have a personality that makes it hard to say no.
As a simple matter of scale, it cannot be that the answer to unsolicited messages is an opt-out paradigm in which everything is defaultly accepted unless the person opts out individually with each and every possible sender. With 6 billion potential senders in the world, one would die of old age simply responding to them if they really all exercised their rights under that scheme.
Bobbot....thanks for "sticking up" for me. I appreciate that. Maybe I was being too thin skinned about it....but it's only because it was my first negative PM.
Scanner....thank you....love your humor!
But in general I prefer not to get these spam-like messages alerting me to someone's every new post. I think such messages should be reserved for special occasions.
The OS system is backwards. We can't ask to be notified by the OS system, but people can send to their "friend's list"... the people they like to READ. How does that make sense to anyone? You can also bulk mail if you set it up by hand.
I get maybe 20 of these a day... less than 1/2 of them are from people I read on a regular basis.
So I get email from people that don't need to send one, because I will read them anyway... and I get email from people who like to read my stuff, who may be good to read (but I never signed up to be notified). So all of the emails are pretty much unwanted, and obscure real PMs, sometimes from the same people.
OS should engineer a system generated message when your favorites post. What we got now creates situations like you are in. I did think the PM was polite, and he went out of his way to explain nicely.
Mr. Mustard....coming from you, who is one of the most kind....I appreciate your thoughts. You would have been way more thoughtul than Tom!
Rob St. Amant.....I agree that we all interpret differently. I was probably putting more meaning there than I should have.
And I dare say so would everyone else. I think that is, not monumentally, but certainly a little bit hubristic.
And I think Kent's last paragraph is an unnecessarily conflation. OS is not 6 billion people.
OS is 30,000 members, including double and triple and quadruple accounts and all the spammers who have been deleted to date--add in the flouncers both public and private, we're probably in the neighborhood of 25,000.
It's easy enough just to say please stop...I noticed the original sender said "please" only in the context of "for the love of cheese." It was a polite enough note, and I disagree with the commenters (omg, even RSA!) only in the sense that they thought it was polite enough, but that speaking for everyone struck a discordant note with me.
Please Patricia, keep sending me notices.
All he needed to say was, "I'd like you to stop sending me notes asking me to read your posts." I'm really puzzled why he unloaded so manyof his grievances on you.
As I've told you in PMs, you can PM me any time.
That being said, it seems to me that Tom was pretty gracious, and he's accurate that many people really resent the PMs. I'm reading a book right now that suggests reversing your situation when you get your feelings hurt by someone. In this case, that would mean trying to imagine having to write the letter he wrote. What would you say differently?
All the best - wishing you a good week.
I realize that some may be annoyed or feel inconvenienced by this mass PM thing, but I believe that it it is an entirely appropriate way to alert folks to our posting activities.
I, for one, invite any and all of you to keep me posted re your work. I may not get there, but I'd rather you feel free to keep me alerted than to have to stumble and fumble my way to your post....Thanks.........
That's the way I feel about the subject....When someone asks to be removed from my PM list I oblige. They have every right not to receive what is sent....I think your PM was OK and entirely understanable. You are being a tad too sensitive......Good post on a topic that needs airing.............
Rated
I used to send PMs more often, but I felt kind of weird about it. Now I do it rarely. I find that my readership does not change whether I PM or not now, so I think from now on I will reserve for posts of a serious nature or on a topic that is important to me.
That said, I think this PM is a bit over the top, but not unexpected considering this is a writer's site. It could have simply said,
"Patricia, please refrain from sending me further post notices. I enjoy your writing and get to your posts whenever I can.
Sincerely, Tom"
No drama, no sweeping generalizations about "all of OS" not wanting these. No hurt feelings.
But each to there own. Tell "tom" that you will remove him from your favourite list to prevent any further intrusions. And because he seems to be a bit sensitive, let him know that this is the only reason you are removing him.
And then move on. :)
The general hue and cry is that if you're added as a favorite, they will see it anyway. This is not always the case. I have hundreds of favorites and it is easy for me to miss something.
That said, I think that reading and commenting on other people's pieces tends to help traffic more than private messaging. I think messaging someone who is truly a friend (or group of friends) and intimately saying, "Hey, this piece has been up for a few hours and has dropped off the feed. Could you read it when you get a chance and tell me what you think?" is much more, um... seemly(?) than a mass dumping of a message the minute a post is written to hundreds of people.
Well, now I've rambled. Everyone has their own style of promotion here. My ethics aren't (and shouldn't be!) anyone else's. I only promote a post very selectively if it's dying a horrible (unjustified) death. In that case, I *only* send it to the last five people who promoted a piece to me, just to kick-start it safely. If you only promote to people who are promoting to you, they can't complain.
Hope this helps and good luck.
Nothing wrong with self-promotion per se, I do it, too, when I think I have something special to say -- but not everything I have to say is special. And I certainly don't think I have something special to say three or four times a day.
I also try to limit my list to people I have developed a relationship over time, and not just anybody I've "befriended". That term is a misnomer; it's becoming as valueless on OS as it is on Facebook.
People say hit the delete button, but at present there is no way to determine whether someone's sending you a message that warrants or requires a response, or just one more promo.
May I suggest a simple cure? If you're sending a promo, say so in the subject line.
Tom the Curmudgeon
It does bothers me you would print it publicly though, since he did take time to write a PM to explain, and especially with a name, whether or not people know several Tom's or not. Though he was presumptuous in speaking for other members, I give him the benefit of the doubt, and would just remove him from your list.
I don't mind getting notices from you or anyone else. Just keep writing!
People do speak in hyperbole. People even get facts wrong. In casual conversation, this may be matter for private correction but is not in and of itself a violation of any politeness protocol, especially when you solicited their opinion.
To hold the wording of an individual message in a private conversation up to nitpicking standards of word-by-word clarity and precision is to fail to understand what it is to have a casual conversation. Casual conversations are naturally sloppy because it's assumed that the participants are in it for the friendship and will work through it. To say “I want your participation but you must respond in the following fixed format or I reserve the right to tell you you should have responded at all” is not any form of friendly conversation I'm familiar with.
Likewise saying “I only asked you about x and yet you responded about y.” is again not any form of personal conversation. It's the kind of thing you say to a servant or business provider, not a friend. If you're not a friend, you have no business in someone's PM box. And it's you that approached him, not he that approached you, at least as you've outlined it—on this conversation anyway, maybe in your entire relationship for all I know. The essence of the personal quality of a conversation is to allow it to flow subject to both speakers; once you're insisting that you alone control the right to say which way the conversation goes, you're alleging you have the dominant hand in the conversation and you are no longer in friends/peers mode. You are in parent/child or server/client mode. Yet you have not identified yourself as Tom's parent nor his client. He owes you no apparent duty. You solicited his good will and refuse to acknowledge his right to have tone or wording you haven't pre-approved.
It looks to me like you are struggling hard to feel that you did right, but you won't get an acknowledgment from me that you did. That doesn't mean you are a bad person, just that you've done something I personally think is unfair and since you've solicited opinions on it, I vote that you owe him an apology. Not a grudging one that says, "well, maybe you made a point, but your language was awful" but a gracious one that acknowledges what he did as kind and polite.
I am like you, I don't like to humiliate people on purpose and without cause. I think you are much like me in that you are sensitive as well (I KNOW I am and I make no apologies). I would just take it for what it says and take him/her off your friends list and move on.
I'm glad you didn't blast the person with a Blog or comment. You did the right thing keeping it anonymous. I hope that "Tom" is a made up name. It sort of narrows it down some if not.
You can always feel free to send blog alerts to me. I am definitely limiting mine to special blogs.
Rated
My "belief" (I have no proof!) is those who can recognize the difference between Selling and Sharing will eventually get it, enjoy each other's company, forgive themselves and those who lose it every once and awhile--and the screamers will find new canyons where they can hear their own echo.
I send notices to everyone on my "favorites" list, which used to be called a 'friends' list. If they don't want to get them they can send me a simple note and they are off of it.
Perhaps one thing that I do differently is that everybody on my favorites list is there by mutual agreement and HAS AGREED to receive notices from me. And has been encouraged by me to send me notices.
I have not gone out and added 300 favorites (NOT saying you have, this is just an example) and then started sending them notices when they don't know me or my work.
In fact, all but an small number on my list added me first, so I sent them a PM telling them that would put them on my "favorites" list but I wanted them to know that I send notices --- asking them right then and there if they wanted me to "favorite" them also knowing that I sent notices. All have done so.
In the time I have been on OS using that system only three or four have later asked off the notice list. I have immediately dropped them. That is not many out of a universe of over 170 current "favorites", not including the more than 100 I have dropped myself since they have not been active on OS in over four months.
So, your problem with the Toms of OS might be that you did not FIRST send them a personal PM asking if it would be OK for you to notify them when you post.
But if you build your list and then later start sending PMs to people you don't know, some are going to be bent. Kent's arguments, which are cogent, notwithstanding, I do not think Tom's "courteously" written and very long PM to you was called for. It thinly conceals an arrogance that is offensive to me, but hey, that is just me. Others clearly feel differently.
Again, send me PMs any time you post anything. Hell, send them just to say "hello" or "I'm having a bad/good day."
This idea of where OS fits in the world of social networking and that OS is, or is not, really an elite writer's community will be argued until hell freezes over.
If there really are 25,000 active members and if OS is still a place where ANYONE can join and set up an account, or ten for that matter, I think the definition of elite is stretched pretty thin.
But if it makes some happy to feel that this is a writer's colony and that there are but a handful of "friends" on it, ie: people who also qualify and meet my standards of what a "friend" has to be and can therefore send me PMs, more power to them. That is not my take at all of the reality of OS. But, again, this is a hoary old argument that will never be solved.
Different strokes for different folks (courtesy of Yamaha motorcycles.)
Monte
BTW, I guess the guy didn't realize he doesn't have to read your post, he can just delete the message. And my in-box is emptier than Rumsfelds e-mail file.
wow!
and once again, this is just another reason why i dont blog whore.. you read my stuff bc well you want to not bc im asking you to
"We post here because we need to satisfy some inner demand but a demand is always directed at an other and it is important that there be some tangible evidence of the encounter. So, we PM each other about new posts, we check the ratings, we congratulate each other on EPs; in this virtual environment, these are the form affirmation takes. ... what makes it so marvelous (here) is the interaction, the feedback, the reflection." Rated.
Cheers,
David
The only problem I had with Tom's message is for speaking for the rest of us. It's all good!! :)
As a writer, actions and posts that step on a few toes is par for the course. Grumpy responses can be completely overlooked. It is not your job to make everyone happy. Some folks think it's their job to make an issue out of every inconvenience, and perhaps some people just feel better making themselves feel a bit more important this way. "Writers must protect ego and self-esteem at any cost, or I'm dooming myself to alcoholism and unappreciated brilliance. So I must demonstrate that her work is less important than my own. Then I'll kick the dog for being a dog. Ooh, that's nice!"
Maybe it's time for people to pare down their favorites lists?
I think I've only sent a PM around once. I had one very kind request to remove a blogger's name from my list, and I haven't sent any around since then. I can't remember who asked to be deleted from my list, either.
I may change my mind about it later, but I hope that the amount of time and effort I put into comments on others' posts and the quality of my work (
I was saying that the quality of my work (if there is any) might be better standing on its own. But if I become troubled, may people have posted suggestions for increased readership.
snarky little Email's just to create some sort of interest in them?
Please,"nudge" me,for each and every post that you write. :)
For those of you who think his PM to me was polite, we'll have to agree to disagree because I still say it was excessive.
I've decided that in the future, I will still let my "friends" know of my new posts, but that doesn't mean every single post....just the special ones or the ones where I need a response...like this one. I think we all agree, for the most part, that if you or I decide not to be on the receiving end of the notifications, we will simply let you know that. That seems fair enough. I promise I will not send a notification to be removed from your list out of anger or resentment. I will simply make a simple and kind request with the intention of not hurting anyone's feelings.
On one hand, I don't want people to think they have to walk on eggshells around me, because that's not true. On the other hand, I see no purpose in being rude or unkind here or anywhere in life. Life is just too short. I believe we can communicate with gentleness, love and consideration for the other person's feelings. There is no need for nastiness.
Thank you again!
My personal feeling is that Tom meant well, but may have been a bit over the top. Also, as others have pointed out, he certainly doesn’t speak for everyone.
I do not know who sent that to you, but hello.... it was more than a little overboard. Did he actually say "everyone?" He does not speak for me. Please continue to send PMs.
I sent PMs in the beginning to gain readership also, and I must admit that when I do PM people, my readership goes up. There has been so much tadoo about it lately, I stopped doing it. What a bunch of whiners! All they have to do is hit delete. Tom may be busy, but there is no reason to be rude.