Determinism, at least the way it was presented in my college philosophy class, was the idea that the laws of physics, in theory, dictate that given perfect information about every particle in the universe, we should be able to predict what happens next.

The logical conclusion of that then is that things MUST unfold a certain way according to the laws of motion and thus free will doesn't have anything to do with it.

I however believe that IF free will doesn't exist than it's more likely because everything that has ever happened has already happened. Perhaps every microinstant ever to occur exist simultaneously and side-by-side, like pages in a book or frames in a movie. And then, our consciousness just experiences those microinstants in the "right" order so as to create the illusion of events unfolding - like a reader turning a page or a projector playing sequential frames in a movie.

This would create the impression that free will occurs, when in fact what is really unfolding is a pre-recorded story.

Perhaps all of creation is simply an alien kid somwhere reading a book, of sorts or experiencing a very sophisticated virtual reality movie or comic book.

Also, I'm not an expert in psychology but I believe that Jung, a protoge of Freud, who alienated Freud ultimately by disagreeing with him - ultimately produced a more explanatory and robust explanation of things.

In my humble opinion I believe Freud was hamstrung or painted himself into a corner by not believing in an afterlife - and thus every weird thing in a person's psyche had to be explained in terms of childhood development, etc.

Jung was more open and believed in a collective unconscious and basically forces in the universe that were unseen and that could influence us.

so, if I had to take a spur-o-the-moment stab at your dream and Einstein's quote, in light of Jung's thoughts - I say that the dream meant that in diving into the material world you "left behind" your true SELF. And then Einstein's quote, would allude to the fact that the ego is a fearful, scared, shivering, little construct that on some level knows it doesn't have any true or objective existence and thus, as a defense mechanism, creates all manner of obfuscations in an attempt to prevent the true self from being realized.

Anyway, that's my .02. : )

(but Jungian dream analysis has a lot to do with symbols and the PERSONAL meaning that each symbol has to someone, so while various themes are universal, my interpretation is probably more what the dream would me if I had it).

I have always marveled at the humor with which She created the universe in Her dream whe She fell asleep from boredom. The very fact that we can beleive in free will in a system that does not allow it is amazing. The fact that we regard ourselves as significant on the scale of infinity is amazing. The fact that we think we know anything about Her or the universe from our observations within the system is downright sad. On the upside, once you toss out the rational mind, determinisim no longer matters.
Oh and fins, what if that book is being written by people like us? I would really hate to be wasted because the author didn't have a better way to wrap up my relationship issues!

andy,

I agree with you about the interesting way in which the universe is constructed in such a way that really, from inside the box of our little corner of it, we really have no way of understanding it. Bu yet, we, drunk with our own sense of intelligence, concoct all manner of theories to explain what ultimately can't be explained.

And there was a professor a couple of years ago who came up with a very compelling argument that we are most likely a computer simulation - so it could be,in fact, that some human kid way in the future just created us with some commonly available simulation software package. Maybe we're even a school project!

D- for the project?

It is hard for me to accept determinism, as Einstein suggested (it would be hard). And as for the dream, you are right, the interpretation depends on the personal attributions, symbols, etc. An interesting segment that I did not mention is that just prior to this dream Ronnie Van Zant (the singersongwriter, deceased) was giving me advice, to focus on just one thing, and that would benefit me musically and otherwise. He is more or less of my idol right now artistically, and I have often said to myself that I would love to be able to talk with him (communicate with him as a spirit). I know this sounds crazy. Then I had the dream I mentioned about hurrying to catch a train or bus and forgetting my valuables. It is interesting that Ronnie was caught up in a kind of manic lifestyle at the time his plane went down and crashed and burned.

yes, I can't accept determinism either - the implications seem pretty chilling - but set I can imagine some situation where we have free will, but yet the future still exists simultaneously with the present.

As for being able to have a converstaion with RVZ, i strangely suspect that when we die our life experiences become part of a pool - a collective unconscious of sorts - and that it is in fact part of the grand scheme of things for us to be able to access that prior "tribal knowledge", perhaps to even dredge up a particular personality - not quite sure how - Jung had a technique he called "active imagination" (which seemed very similar to astral projection) through which he suggested one could tap into. I suspect that mostly however we humans have large capabilities that we haven't figured out yet.

It's also an interesting question of whether a specific personality such as RVZ still exists at all - I would assume that after death, at least at some point, I would cease to be the specific personality (rob) that I am during my time here on Earth, but if I'm not "rob" than who am i?

interesting things to ponder I guess.

and just a day or two I quoted a Van Zandt lyric to someone on here from "Help Somebody" - if you want to hear God laugh, tell him your plans.

Bobbot - yes, another interesting question. If we were a class project, what grade would the alien kid get? I guess it depends on the specifics of the assignment! Extra points for humor or irony?

I'll have to look that song up...Mostly, I am playing and/or singing over and over Tuesday's Gone and I Can Only Write It, but he has other great lyrics--a very under-appreciated songwriter and performer, in my opinion. I feel his authenticity. I identify with his life experience--we have many parallels. I am saddened by some of the things he went through--and put himself through...But I am inspired by some of his great lyrics and his musicality.

Free will is the only thing in the universe I believe in. Some will say it was pre-determined in my genes that I would believe this and only this, but that seems unlikely to me. I think there is a better than average chance one rises above their "programming", making novel decisions as they wander through the quantum fog.

C'mon. We'll be arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin next. Proper Determinism includes provision for the exercise of Free Will. If you believe that's a contradiction...it works !
Looking at other replies reminds me of Simulachron 3 which became the movie the 13th Floor : life in a 'computer sim'.

Angels are huge! How can they dance on pins? That's just silly.