Bush Speechwriter David Frum Chides Rachel Maddow
Did you see the Rachel Maddow Show tonight?
Talk about gall - and poor logic. Former Bush speechwriter David Frum, invited on the show to talk about his criticism of the McCain campaign for stirring up "fury" in the populace, took Maddow to task for contributing to the problem with her own sarcasm and ridicule of Republicans and their policies.
Now, I have no problem with a guest blindsiding a host or a producer - comes with the territory. But equating the sarcasm of a TV host with the vile rhetoric of a Presidential campaign is absurd. Surely, Frum doesn't think that Americans pay as much attention to a TV host as to a Presidential campaign?
Indeed, I think it's good for commentators to be sarcastic. Not that I agree with them, all or even most of the time. I certainly don't agree with most of what I hear and see on Fox. And, as I've pointed out here, I think Keith Olbermann on MSNBC has on more than one occasion been over the top (though he's been right on key the past few weeks). But sarcasm, satire, and other kinds of political lampooning have been and always will be an important part of the political process - they help keep us focused, and, on occasion, awake.
Totally unlike the vicious attacks on Obama - not just by rank and file, but by party leaders, including and in particular their VP candidate - which do nothing but divide us.
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Rachel Maddow is a yard smarter than most folks in the media yet is graced with a humility and guilelessness which is extremely rare. She's both eager to learn and eager to share what she learns with her viewers (hearers).
It was embarrassing to see David Frum, allegedly one of the Right’s best thinkers, dodge a truth he has already affirmed - choosing party over honesty and innuendo over integrity.
For a man who clings to absolutes (coining the infamous “axis of evil” phrase) to be so utterly and transparently disingenuous - avoiding the question to pose a straw man argument of his own - is clarion commentary why Senator McCain and his party are in trouble.
You can only obfuscate so long before we’ll see the man behind the curtain fellas (rated).
First, their *candidates* serve up racially charged talking points to their followers. When the emotional surge that the campaign has fomented starts spinning into the incendiary zone, they sit back and try to neutralize it by saying the same thing is happening on left, except it's not being reported by the mainstream media, or no, wait, that is is being *done* by the mainstream media. Ah, so *that's* the trouble.
And in the meantime, no one gets to talk about what matters. Neat trick, if they can get away with it ;)
Maddox showed a lot more grace than I would have.
It seems to me that these Republican neo-con diehards simply have nothing left with which to levy an argument, and so they are reduced to this level of pathetic argument that goes nowhere, which is the only place left for them to go.
rated
I saw the interview....
*Pause to curse under breath*
Not only did he completely insult her, but he also tried to link her quality satire to the campaign of Mc-Hate. I found it very hard to sit and watch him spout such a ridiculous pile of crap. Of course, Rachel took it like a professional which I would expect. Not to mention the fact that she's forgotten more than he would ever know.
Something I did find interesting is that David Frum went so far as to say that the war "isn't going well". This is rather surprising given the constant "we are winning" spin that is over played by the Republicans.
David also went so far as to claim that Rachel was making light of the terrorist threats that are "out there".
Of course, David Frum wouldn't consider the idea that perhaps part of the reason we have these enemies is due to our foreign policy and lack of diplomacy. Did anyone consider that having Obama as President could definitely help show America's ability to be progressive in both areas of race and religion? Isn't that something that America tries to show as a strength?
Just a thought....
It was almost hypnotic watching Frum sleaze from topic to topic. From a purely objective standpoint, it was impressive to see him subtly twist words and sneak the nastiest sentiments into seemingly benign sentences.
Still, massive props to Rachel for not taking the bait, and forcing him into a rigorous defense of his completely inappropriate statement about her show.
Republican Elitism
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By NOAM SCHEIBER
Published: December 11, 2005
For more than a generation, the most popular maneuver in the conservative playbook has been to denounce academic and cultural elites. In the 1960's, William F. Buckley Jr. quipped that he'd rather "be governed by the first 2,000 names in the Boston telephone book than by the 2,000 members of the Harvard faculty." In 2003, David Frum, a conservative columnist and former Bush speechwriter, denounced the "American elite" for its "combination of guilt and self-doubt." "With his 'axis of evil' speech," he continued, "President Bush served notice to the world: he felt no guilt and no self-doubt."
So, on the one hand, our guilt and self-doubt are crippling America. Now the fact that we are trying to use humour and sarcasm to keep our wits about us is seen as cynical, and makes us the moral equivalents of lynch mobs.
Jesus wept.
Perhaps Mr. Frum should read some Nietzsche, who very clearly stated in one of his aphorisms that "A joke is an epitaph on the death of a feeling," or as I've also seen it translated, 'Comedy is an epigram for tragedy." In other words, sometimes, the world, at least the world of the last eight years, has made me want to cry. Is it any wonder that after a while, black humour emerges? How else to deal with the fact that McCain chose perhaps the most unqualified person ever to be vice-president? What are we supposed to be doing? Holding a wake?
This probably doesn't make any sense, and as it turns out, she never said it, but Emma Goldman has always been attributed with saying, "If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution." Well, change is coming, Mr. Frum, and I'm dancing as fast as I can.
- a famous, funny actor
"Dumb f**kin' Rpublicans..." and he went into his room to play xbox 360.
Kinda says it all...
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Nevertheless, Frum made his point and I mostly agree with it. It's where most of us liberals were in the last election--Let's talk issues!--but the difference is we're on top in all ways, including controlling the jokes. A little context helps--what went on in this particular show of Rachel's prior to Frum's appearance? And yes, previous unserious, sarcastic behavior of Frum's is fair game.
A good discussion all around, and good TV. Much better than what it replaced.
My favorite part is when he says, "...the quality of the discussion is more thoughtful...quotes Gandhi - be the change we want to see..." and asserts that he is making change and "doing his little best" in his little corner of the world to raise the level of discourse and talk about issues, but then proceeds to go on Rachel's show and insult her.
She nails it - "part of the problem...is devotion to coming up with a sort of false equivalence..."
On the whole, I think she does an excellent job on her show of addressing issues. And I totally agree that humor, parody and sarcasm are effective tools for making a point. Like Jon Stewart, her humor is intelligent and focused on issues.
Along with Olberman, they have done the best job of putting Palin and McCain into an historical context, comparing and contrasting with Bush/Cheney, and highlighting the lies, deceit, and flip-flops of their positions as well as the danger within.
This being said, I partially agree with David Frums thought. While I don't think that leftwing satire is equivalent to the venom spewed at the McCain rallys I see how someone, not ideologically sympathic to progressive ideas, could be riled up by Maddow and Olberman's form of critique. I do believe we need to speak in civil tones. Biting satire, while humorous to some, is like spiking the ball in someones face. It's humiliating and does not lead to respectful dialogue. If we, as a country, are to find a reasonable middle ground that will move us in a positive direction we need to speak with less invective.
Frum actually does a good job of raising the real point of which he is, and always has been, one of the worst offenders when he says: "We should be the change we want to see."
Coming from Frum, that line is practically sacrilege. As fingerlakes says, "Jesus wept". LOL!
These people are not interested in intelligent debate and discourse, they are interested in spreading propaganda, lies, disinformation and muddying the waters as much as possible because any REAL discussion of the issues is not to their advantage. This is just more distraction, nothing more.
Taliban has expanded tremendously and USA has lost leadership in that area.
It was in today’s El Pais newspaper from Spain.
Are we out of focus?
Jokes aside, I almost wrote that I cannot believe that Frum would offer such a thin veiled critique of "liberal biased media," urging Maddow to focus on "intelligent discourse," but then I would have had to forget that everything Frum says is there to provoke the left and remind us of how weak any exhibited liberal bias in media actually is.
This critique of course, is far better, and more appropriately aimed at some abominable body of drama, lies and videotapes, such as Fox News. Considering the biases of this Murdoch's brainchild, I cannot resist comparing the networks and stating the obvious: Democrats are weak because they, unlike their Republican brothers, are not focused, not aggressive enough, nor outraged enough by events, statements, and right wing propaganda. Left wing media, if it even exists or can be called that way, has lost its zest, being too concerned with ability to perform in a fair and balanced way. Right wing media pundits, on the other hand, have somehow gained the right to spew lies, invent facts, incite hatred and fear, and yet are being tolerated.
In other words, the failing of Maddow is not sarcasm, but absence of aggression and conviction that would rival the right wing punditry.
definitely over the edge....